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  #1  
Old 06-04-2008, 10:35 PM
Jason Dunn
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Default Do Most Indy-Trendy-Hipsters Use Macs?

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://torontoist.com/2008/06/vice_to_zune_mu.php' target='_blank'>http://torontoist.com/2008/06/vice_to_zune_mu.php</a><br /><br /></div><img border="1" alt="" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/zt/auto/1212612712.usr1.jpg" /><br /><br />Google's keyword alert feature slavishly delivers to me all the Zune-based news I can handle, and the Zune Thoughts team then slavishly delivers it to you, and while slavishly reading the latest mention of the Zune over at a Web site called <a target="_blank" href="http://torontoist.com/2008/06/vice_to_zune_mu.php">torontoist</a>, this quote caught my eye:<br /><br /><em>&quot;The best things in life, everyone knows, aren't free. The best things in life are things other people have to pay for, and you get for free. Like the 1,000 bottles of beer at the latest of Toronto's legendary VICE parties, if you were early or lucky or special enough to get into the Deleon White Gallery on Friday night. Or, say, the 300 Microsoft Zunes given to young &quot;influencers&quot; (bloggers, DJs, other kinds of people who normally use Macs) as part of the shiny new mp3 player's semi-viral launch. (Full disclosure: we got ours in the mail yesterday.) Microsoft doesn't like to talk about the (white) elephant in the room&mdash;the seemingly unstoppable iPod&mdash;but it's obvious their cross-Canada marketing efforts are aimed squarely at the Justin Long demographic.&quot;</em><br /><br />That got me thinking about something that we've touched on before here, but never really got down to discussing: given that the target demographic that Microsoft's marketing has been going after, which since launch has been the independent music types, is it a serious mis-step for the Zune not to have an OS X solution? It seems pretty pointless to market to Indy-Trendy-Hipster-types if you don't have a software solution fr the platform that they're using.
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2008, 12:45 AM
Darius Wey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Dunn View Post
That got me thinking about something that we've touched on before here, but never really got down to discussing: given that the target demographic that Microsoft's marketing has been going after, which since launch has been the independent music types, is it a serious mis-step for the Zune not to have an OS X solution? It seems pretty pointless to market to Indy-Trendy-Hipster-types if you don't have a software solution fr the platform that they're using.
That's a tricky one. There aren't many Mac users out there who dislike what the iPod has to offer. So, for Microsoft, in working on a native OS X solution, they would have to ask themselves whether they could sway enough Mac users to justify the costs in development.

In the meantime, those serious about using a Zune will often fire up Parallels Desktop or VMware Fusion and sync their Zune that way. It's messy, but it works.
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2008, 02:36 AM
Adam Krebs
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Originally Posted by Darius Wey View Post
In the meantime, those serious about using a Zune will often fire up Parallels Desktop or VMware Fusion and sync their Zune that way. It's messy, but it works.
I'm not sure how many people are willing to jump through those hoops just to get a media management solution. I know several Mac users who were seriously considering a Zune before learning that there's no OSX client available. Beyond people who need it for mission-critical applications, I don't think too many people know about or own virtualization software.

Again, I think this is a really difficult discussion. Market figures show that Mac owners are just a small sublet of the market, but anecdotal experience begs to differ.
 
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  #4  
Old 06-05-2008, 05:29 AM
dp
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Default 20 mill users is nothing to sneeze at when you've only sold 2 million in 1.5 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Krebs View Post
Again, I think this is a really difficult discussion. Market figures show that Mac owners are just a small sublet of the market, but anecdotal experience begs to differ.
The market isn't PC users; it's mp3 player owners. If you assume Apple's 100 million sold are in active use and still represent 70+% of the market, the total market size is a little more than 140 million. If you assume 100 million doesn't represent actual users (highly likely) but Apple still has 70% of the market (highly likely), the market is even smaller than 140 million. Apple's approximately 20 million Mac users could potentially represent 15% of the total music player market market (a huge number when working from 4%). Considering Apple does best in the U.S., in the consumer market -- and Zune is still U.S. only -- Mac users likely represent even more of a potential market that Microsoft isn't addressing. If you want to focus in even more on young, hip, music-loving Americans, it's probably even much more.

Or consider it another way: if Microsoft could attract just 5% of Mac users, Microsoft would have another 1 million users and would increase their market share by 50%.

Cross-platform development should not be that hard; numerous companies accomplish it quite well for equally sophisticated software (and more so) as Zune. It should be easy and desirable for Microsoft, but they don't seem capable of coding for other platforms. And Zune development has progressed rather slowly as is.

Maybe Microsoft should just focus on getting into other markets around the world considering Apple is likely to introduce the second iPhone before Microsoft gets to Canada and may soon be in 60+ countries by the time Zune decides to cross some water.

[edit: post too long?]

Last edited by dp; 06-05-2008 at 12:05 PM..
 
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  #5  
Old 06-05-2008, 07:27 AM
dp
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While the argument that Mac users won't use Microsoft products is somewhat fair for a very small diehard minority of Mac users -- it doesn't really hold water in general. Most Mac users still use Office -- despite it growing horribly bad in recent years; most have experience and can respect some Microsoft software in their day-to-day work lives. The same criticism could be said of Windows users who would never use expensive Apple gear like iPods and look what's happened. Even in the case of Windows users who still don't want iPods, I think there is a degree of mindshare gain just by trying (even if they think it obvious for Apple to develop for Windows or think iTunes sucks). If Microsoft really had a compelling, competitive product, it would attract its fair share of Mac users (and from a marketing perspective, having 2-4% of Mac users could be more powerful than the same % of the total market). What is true: if Zune software didn't work as well as iTunes on their Macs, if the Zune player didn't sync seamlessly with the Mac Zune software, etc..., then yes, it would likely fail. Microsoft would have to do commit to doing it right -- which it rarely does with Mac software that it develops. (Although there have been periods in history where the Mac equivalent was often superior to the Windows version. And I wouldn't suggest that iTunes has been perfect on Windows, only that the iPod has been largely superior to what is available to Win users.)

Last edited by dp; 06-05-2008 at 12:06 PM..
 
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  #6  
Old 06-05-2008, 07:07 PM
Jason Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dp View Post
While the argument that Mac users won't use Microsoft products is somewhat fair for a very small diehard minority of Mac users -- it doesn't really hold water in general.
This is where I'm not so sure...you'd almost need to do a survey at a big Mac-focused Web site and ask the users if they'd try a Zune if it was available on OS X. My gut says that most Mac users are Mac users because they liked the "Apple lifestyle" and recent switchers from Windows I've seen using Boot Camp, Parallels, etc. seem to fairly quickly find native Mac solutions and don't want to use anything Windows - and I can't see these people using a Zune. That's just what I've seen so I have no idea how well that scales up to the broad public...
 
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  #7  
Old 06-05-2008, 07:01 PM
Jason Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dp View Post
...Mac users likely represent even more of a potential market that Microsoft isn't addressing. If you want to focus in even more on young, hip, music-loving Americans, it's probably even much more.
Exactly - that's my point. There seems to be a disconnect between their product planning and their marketing.

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edit: post too long?
Not sure what happened, but vBulletin definitely allows for very large posts, so I don't think that was the issue.
 
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  #8  
Old 06-05-2008, 07:40 AM
ManMythLegend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Krebs View Post
I'm not sure how many people are willing to jump through those hoops just to get a media management solution. I know several Mac users who were seriously considering a Zune before learning that there's no OSX client available. Beyond people who need it for mission-critical applications, I don't think too many people know about or own virtualization software.

Again, I think this is a really difficult discussion. Market figures show that Mac owners are just a small sublet of the market, but anecdotal experience begs to differ.

I switched to Linux about 6 months ago and before I found out about VirtualBox and VMWare I used to dual boot into windows simply to update my Zune and that didn't even bother me too much to not do it.

Now, when I first got my Zune I was still running XP BUT if I had already switched over I can definitely say that I would have second thought getting one...a sad realization that I could have very possibly missed out on such a great product...
 
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  #9  
Old 06-05-2008, 05:36 PM
Adam Krebs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMythLegend View Post
I switched to Linux about 6 months ago and before I found out about VirtualBox and VMWare I used to dual boot into windows simply to update my Zune and that didn't even bother me too much to not do it.
Most people who switch to Linux have an above-average knowledge of computers (I'm completely speculating here) and so would most likely be aware of virtualization. Most "switchers" from Windows to Mac (again, complete speculation/anecdote) tend to do it due to decreased complexity, and either don't know about/how to virtualize or don't want to. Even as virtualization solutions become easier to use, they're still a pain, and not nearly as convenient as a native client or a shoddily-written port.
 
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  #10  
Old 06-05-2008, 06:58 PM
Jason Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Krebs View Post
I'm not sure how many people are willing to jump through those hoops just to get a media management solution. I know several Mac users who were seriously considering a Zune before learning that there's no OSX client available.
Yeah, I agree - especially lately, much of OS X's growth in the market comes from people switching from Windows because Vista is too complex and they want something different (I'd argue the truth in that of course, but that's the perception). So it has to be native or nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Krebs View Post
Again, I think this is a really difficult discussion. Market figures show that Mac owners are just a small sublet of the market, but anecdotal experience begs to differ.
I think part of that comes from the number of people in positions of influence who are Mac users - whenever I'm at tech conferences, it's shocking to me how many of my peers have switched to Macs.
 
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