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Old 03-17-2010, 11:28 PM
Jason Dunn
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Default No User-Replaceable Storage on Windows phone 7 Devices: Please Proceed With Your Screaming and Yelling

"We found out from Todd Brix of Microsoft that Windows Phone 7 Series will eschew user-replaceable memory. Memory cards may still be used by manufacturers and OEMs, but those won't be easily or readily accessible to the end-user. This will allow, as Microsoft puts it, for a better user experience on the device, and we're not sure that the primary motive for locking down storage memory is for a better experience - we're guessing it has to do with DRM though the strategy would go well with Microsoft's move to remove a file management system."

Although I tend to put a memory card in my phone and leave it there - rarely if ever taking it out - I've always like the idea of removable storage because there are two constants in the flash memory world: first, that the cards will always grow to have more storage, and second, that they'll get cheaper. I railed on Microsoft for not putting removable storage card slots in their Zune products, because it would have been a key advantage over the iPod, and now Microsoft is taking a step backwards in my opinion by removing the option for OEMs to offer removable storage cards. According to Todd Brix, this is due to wanting to offer a "better user experience". I call bunk on this point - any modern program not designed should automatically scan both local and removable storage and present the user with the content they want to see. If the user options up the photo application, it should show the user all the photos on their device, and their card, seamlessly. Anything less is just lazy programming and not caring about the user experience.

If HTC and the other OEMs offer devices with decent storage options (up to 32 GB, maybe even 64 GB if they want to rock the house), I personally won't care about this too much - but I know it shuts off a lot of scenarios for some people, and I wish Microsoft hadn't gone this route. I think in this respect, they're trying a bit too much to copy Apple - and that's not a good thing.

And since we're getting all the bad news out of the way this week, there's also no file system. I think the file system is a poorly-suited concept on a mobile phone and creates too much complexity for average users, but I know power users love having a file system.

You may now proceed with getting angry at Microsoft and swearing you'll move to Android.

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Old 03-18-2010, 12:00 AM
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 740

I am not going to comment about the removable storage; it would be like shooting on the Red Cross......

As for your coment about the file system and the complexiti for average user....... do you think that average users play with file system in W7? I do not still the system is there for people who wants to do it.

Anyway I just ordered anothe HD2..... just in case something happens to my one before iPhone 4 and Adroid 3 will be announced.

Of course by the time MS will release this WP7 I will begin shor sell t MS shares....
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:00 AM
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 30

More and more.... I'm convinced that the Touch Pro 2 was the right choice for me and I have no want to downgrade to 7
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:19 AM
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 486

I remember talking to MS about this awhile back. The technical issues came down to the problem of apps running of SD cards and then those cards being yanked or dislodged by accident and causing app crashes. Data being corrupted by the same thing, etc...

I think they would have done well to allow SD cards, but to make it behind the battery as OEMs have started doing at the very least.

I understand the reasons, though I think they went too far in it.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:26 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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This is a good move, in my opinion.

Think of it this way - as an app developer, you have no idea about the speed and capabilities of the SD card that your app might be running from. It could be the very best of SanDisk cards or it could be a very cheap fake card. It's impossible to test your app with every phone on the market, let alone every phone and memory card combination. The less compatibility issues that developers have to deal with, the more time they can spend writing quality apps.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:44 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 211

Well that's it! I'm moving to Android!

Actually, this is probably the thing that bothers me the most about all I've heard about WP7S so far. I don't mind the lack of true multi-tasking. If I'm getting a state saved to which I can return quickly, I'm content. The notifications will keep coming so that is really the only thing I'd want for multi-tasking in most cases and they've already said that music and such can continue in the background.

Copy/Paste? Thinking about it, I really don't use it all that much. I think it should be there, but the only times I tend to use it are to copy a serial number into a program to activate it. Other than that, it's been to copy an address or phone number or activate it for calling.

Removable storage? While I can sort of understand the logic, I think that with large enough internal storage and some abstraction, it would be very easy to manage and a great way to import music and videos, not to mention a way to upgrade that same storage without needing to buy a whole new device. With this phone really acting as an all-in-one device and not a jumble of apps trying to work together, I could see actually using it for music and such much more often than I do at this time. I'm disappointed by this move and am hoping that manufacturers who implement it could find a way to do so in a way that makes it difficult but not impossible. Otherwise we go back to the PPCTechs days of upgrading the internal storage to something actually usable.

Overall, I like the general things I'm seeing, but this one was the most disappointing to me. I'm not planning to jump ship at this time and overall I like the look/feel better than the iPhone. I'm waiting to learn more as the launch date approaches but have no real plans to change over to another platform at this time. Time will tell. I know that I'm holding off on a new phone purchase until closer to release and keeping an eye on the LG model that was demo'd (I like keyboards).
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:52 AM
Lee Yuan Sheng
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Originally Posted by paschott View Post
I don't mind the lack of true multi-tasking. If I'm getting a state saved to which I can return quickly, I'm content.
Not pointing you out directly, but Palm (and now Apple) used to do this. I remember how everyone here was laughing at how sad Palm OS was compared to the PocketPC (yes, this was years ago). Suddenly it's now fashionable to do things the old way!

No file system, again very Apple-like. Heck even for Palm, while everyone (including me) had some kind of file manager, the truth of it was that Palm didn't really need one as well, due to its design.

Seems strange that something with a decade old design is back being in vogue again. What is this, fashion? :P
Baka. Soku. Zan. - The justice behind the dysORDer.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:24 AM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 639

Okay, keeping tally:

1) No Multi-tasking -- Just now confirmed at Engadget: And while it may be possible to switch between "paused" (or apparently "dehydrated"--gimme a break), it won't be quick. Certainly not like WebOS's cards or the iPhone's browser tabs or even the SPB task manager.

Funny as Lee points out, Palm was the butt of so many jokes for this strategy. Now Palm is the only OS to do multitasking right and all the others seem to think they are still out of fashion. Freaky Frakin' world, mate.

An NO it isn't okay to just have notifications. Even if you don't stream audio or something as "radical" as that, how about GPS? It is nearly worthless on the iPhone since you miss your turn if you so much as get a call (not to mention try to run another 3rd-party app. Or location-based services? Run in the background and let you know when you're near something/someone. Supposed to be the next big thing. Impossible.

2) No App Sideloading -- Yep, hello Apple. Seriously?!? I'm most disturbed by this one, even if it isn't the most debilitating.

3) No Copy/Paste -- Stupid, but not world ending. However, it is such a relatively easy feature to implement. Even if it were to add $10 million and 2 months to the ship date (it wouldn't since it is part of the CE core--keep in mind that $10 million is a full 50 man years), do you not think it would be worth that to avoid the horrendous pie-in-the-face press that this is giving them.

4) No Expandable Storage -- Wow. Just wow. Another not-world-ending feature, but oh my God, the pies! The pies!!!

5) No Exposed File System -- I'll reserve judgment here. Depending on how it is implemented it may be okay, like if they hide the OS folders, but still expose the "My Documents" folder or something. But if the only way to move files to and from the device is via the Zune windows app, then another totally braindead, Apple wannabe move. There is NOTHING wrong with exposing a set of file folders for moving documents/media around. Oh, and allowing for some kind of hierarchical organization. People really aren't that stupid, despite what Apple seems to think. At least not all of them.

6) No Shell Customization / Skinning -- Truly the only remaining uniqely "cool" part of Windows Mobile was this. I can see losing this, but again, that was part of the geek-fun of owning a WM device. Obviously this functionality was totally ceded to Android.

What it all really comes down to is the full abandonment of the geek and corporate market in the hopes of stealing the Gen Z's away from Apple. Good luck. IMO, really a bad long-term strategy.

Everyone here's signed off by saying they're going to Android. I'm gonna be different and say I'm heading to Palm...even if they do only seem to be marketing to women...

...okay, actually I'm probably sticking with Apple through my contract date in 2011 unless they don't implement multitasking in 4.0 in which case I'm heading to Palm early ETF be damned. I'm tired of this one-thing-at-a-time crap! B)
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:42 AM
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 27

I'm off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Droid.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:09 AM
Rob Alexander
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 667

WHAT? Okay, that's it... now I'm really moving to Droid! Actually, this one doesn't bother me nearly as much if they include sufficient memory in the device. Give me a choice of 32 or 64 GB and I'll be fine with that.

But still, ptyork's post really speaks to me. He's pretty much listed everything I value in WM and absolutely none of it is in WP7. I know this product isn't aimed at me, but really... where's the substance? When people stop oggling the cool new tiles and transitions after a couple of days, they're going to want to actually get something done with their phones. Given their inability to get even some basic functions completed on time, I worry about whether MS can deliver a good enough experience on the other stuff to capture the market they're seeking.

They're tossing out their loyal user base that, admittedly, was insufficient to keep this platform alive. But that means they absolutely must create an entirely new base of users from scratch, and quickly. The integration and entertainment features simply cannot be half-baked. Given that MS isn't known for a high degree of polish in their systems (Windows 7 being the possible exception, and look how long that took), I worry about whether they'll be able to pull this off.

Although I keep saying I'm moving to Android, I really don't know what I'll do yet. Until we have a shipping WP7 product that I can lay hands on, read reviews of, etc., there's just no way to know how all the compromises will work out. What I do know is that WP7 is just another device to look at when the time comes. If the iPhone is best at the time, then I get an iPhone. If it's Android, then I'll get that. If WebOS, then I'll go that way. And if it's WP7, then I certainly won't let my comments here dissuade me. What I am sure of, though, is that each of these 'it won't have' announcements reduces the chance that WP7 will be the choice.
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