11-18-2005, 07:00 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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The Case of the Disappearing RAM
"So you just bought a brand new WM5 device. The box says it's got 64M of RAM. You go digging through control panels on the device and find one that says it's only got 50M. Is something wrong? Should you be worried about this? The short answers are "No" and "No." This blog entry will explain why...The primary source of this confusion stems from the fact that the control panel which shows your RAM usage only counts RAM that you have any control over. That is to say, it only shows running applications. There are other uses for RAM, and such things are hidden from you. As end users, there's nothing you can do about them, so why display them in the panel? Now you could make the argument that you'd still like to see a listing of the RAM you can't directly use. The WM5 designers disagree. I personally don't have a strong opinion on the matter one way or the other."
An interesting article from Mike Calligaro triggered by my request to my MVP lead for more information on the RAM setup of Windows Mobile 5. I was planning on a post to discuss this issue, and wanted an official response from Microsoft as to why the memory issue was so confusing. Mike has delivered in spades with a detailed article.
I was initially really positive about the new ROM/RAM setup (some may recall me saying that 64 MB would be enough), but it's really ugly how much RAM is used up after boot. I should have known better, because if you have a desktop PC with 512 MB of RAM, it's not like you have that much to use after boot - the OS itself needs RAM to operate, and Windows Mobile 5 is no different in this regard.
I received a JasJar two weeks ago, and it's my first experience using a phone edition of Windows Mobile 5. It has 64 MB of RAM, but only 50.16 is listed as the total. On a freshly hard reset device with only my Exchange data on it and only GPRS turned on, 22.79 MB is used up. So of 64 MB total, only 27.37 is available to the user. I was using it for about 30 minutes, doing PIM + email + web (WiFi active), and I was down to 9 MB RAM free. This hardly seems like a power-user device, does it? I'd be curious to know if there are any JasJar users running GPS or other memory-intensive applications, and how well it works.
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11-18-2005, 08:16 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 101
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I've just got myself an XDA Exec, having previously owned the XDA1 and XDA2. I have to say, although the device itself is very nice, the OS feels like a step backwards. The sluggish responsiveness and memory limitations make it feel like the XDA1 in day to day operation. It's usable, but only just.
Having said that, the previous XDAs only really became usable after the service packs came out, so I'm hoping the situation will improve when that happens.
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11-18-2005, 09:19 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,350
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I have an i-Mate Jasjar as well. I noticed that some applications do not respond well to the new memory setup. For example SPB Imageer kept eating RAM, until it couldn't perform a single task. All I did was open a directory with 65 of about 150k images. I started with 21 MB free, and ended up with 1 MB before the device froze. Viewing the same directoy in Resco Photo Viewer keeps 15 MB free. The joy of being an early adopter.
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11-18-2005, 09:35 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 20
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Yeah, I've had the JASJAR for five weeks now, and I feel like being shortchanged here when it comes to the RAM. It's a high end PDA phone, so it's pretty silly that we have to spend so much time reading on the forums to see what to move out of the Startup folder and which app should we be using to close apps to make it back to 22MB of available RAM upon startup. The built-in Skype wouldn't even start if there're other apps running, severely limiting its use.
I read somewhere that HTC might have only put in 64MB RAM because of concerns about the standby time, but I don't buy this argument. People would be more than happy to buy a spare battery if we have already paid $1000 for this otherwise excellent gadget to make it usable.
By the way, has anyone else experienced problems with the phone? I find it to be prone to not receive any calls when both WiFi and phone are on. I didn't notice until some people e-mailed me saying my voicemail was on all night (no wonder it was so quiet); I went to check the phone and found that I couldn't even dial out! I had to reset the machine to get things working again. Let's just hope that HTC/i-mate will release a ROM upgrade soon to fix the stability, performance and memory management issues on hand. Anyone happens to be in contact with them?
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11-18-2005, 10:05 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 172
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No Jasjar, but an x51v that I'm dissatisfied with. Starts with about 30MB and after using and closing a few programs and a short wifi session, it's down to 20MB. Not sure now far down it would go if I didn't soft reset it.
I've had my fill of wasting time trying to address the various hardware and software issues of the x51v, and two hours ago I hard reset it and put it back in the box until someday when MS has a better WM5 or until I just decide to sell it. I'm back to my x50v now. Somehow I've learned to forgive its memory issues. And I do like WM2003SE better than WM5 (much better)
I wish well to all who are willing to keep going forward with WM5 devices - I hope to rejoin the ranks at some point, but significant improvements will have to be made first.
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11-18-2005, 10:47 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 86
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I always thought that the main reason why wm5 hasn't been released for the hx4700 is that it would run so slow hp wouldn't have the support to deal with the complaints.
Nothing I've seen has led me to believe differently.
drifting OT...
It's a good thing linux and symbian will be challenging M$ for a share of the 'unifed device' market soon. My current phone (a nokia 6682) only just falls short of taking over all the day to day chores a pda would. I'm interested in PPCT's sister sites views on the latest batch of smartphones too.
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11-19-2005, 02:52 AM
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Developer & Designer, News Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,959
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I've been running an E-TEN M600 (with Windows Mobile 5.0) for a day now and I must say, the memory management on this device is extremely efficient.
Specs state 64MB RAM (I have around 49MB usable, and on startup, about 20MB of that is used, bringing it down to around 29MB). Under a typical workday scenario, with Wi-Fi turned on, Internet Explorer, Resco Explorer 2005, Calendar, Contacts and Resco Radio all running, it chews up a mere 2MB RAM, giving me around 27MB left.
I'm extremely satisfied with the way this device runs. It feels fast.
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11-19-2005, 04:24 AM
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Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 498
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darius Wey
I've been running an E-TEN M600 (with Windows Mobile 5.0) for a day now and I must say, the memory management on this device is extremely efficient.
Specs state 64MB RAM (I have around 49MB usable, and on startup, about 20MB of that is used, bringing it down to around 29MB). Under a typical workday scenario, with Wi-Fi turned on, Internet Explorer, Resco Explorer 2005, Calendar, Contacts and Resco Radio all running, it chews up a mere 2MB RAM, giving me around 27MB left.
I'm extremely satisfied with the way this device runs. It feels fast.
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It's really a good news. Maybe M600 uses NOR ROM.
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11-19-2005, 05:04 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,043
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Indeed the Eten's performance with a fairly substantial software load seems almost opposite that of Jason's HTC... and the reports I've been reading on Dell's offering don't seem a lot better, without a phone either!
Jason, I am puztled. This is probably because of my ignorance of Exchange, so be patient with me. How exactly is Exchange data eating up RAM? Is it the databases (if any are involved)? I thought WM5.0 put databases into ROM, alongside files and registry. Do databases also load into, or get mirrored in RAM on every boot? If tnat is the case, I'd suggest that 128MB of RAM should be a minimum for WM5 devices.
Boy, almost all the press and forum posts so far are scaring me off this whole first run on the new OS. Actually that's past tense; 'have scared' me off. I bought a Toshiba e800 with 2003SE a couple of days ago on eBay, new, sealed, $279, with the USB thingy.
Been putting it off, clinging to my ancient Dell X5, hoping one of the new devices would thrill me with goodness. No luck. So it'll be the e800 with my Symbol CF 802.11b card (from what I've seen in friends' experiences, the e830's Wi-Fi stinks), a 1GB SD, and a killer fat battery when I find one for less than a fortune. WM2003SE seems to be Microsoft's apogee, for now.
Sorry to read about your troubles Jason. The RAM leaks in this X5 under WM2003 (especially in PIE) are nasty, but nothing like what you describe!
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11-19-2005, 06:06 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 486
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Here is my post to Mike Calligaro's post on MSDN (hopefully it'll show up soon):
I have to agree that MS has just as much to explain as say Dell or HP on why an identical device with two OSs provides so much less usable RAM under WM5.
At the very least MS has that relationship with HP and Dell to find out and explain exactly what it is.
The truth is though that most of the memory IS Microsoft code. How do I know? Look at the WM5 emulators. No OEM stuff there. Here are numbers from a straight soft reset: 36.62 MB Total. In Use 19.93 MB. That's 20MB in use on a soft reset - phone edition/QVGA.
Now QVGA no phone: 36.99 MB Total. In use: 17.70.
That's still a LOT more than WM 2003SE emulators which show 29.70 MB Total main memory and only 6.35MB in Use on a soft reset. Even looking at my own Samsung i730 which is a PPC 2003SE Phone Edition device it takes 11MB at startup including OEM apps that start up.
Mike, you can look at the emulator your self. You can look at a Dell x50v yourself. Yes, WM5 definitely takes up 3x the amount of memory than WM2003 did.
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Linear Mode
