12-08-2004, 10:00 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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PDAGOLD Takes on USB Host
"Independent observes may be puzzled a little regarding USB Host. Some users (mainly owners of new LOOXes) glorify it uncritically, whereas others tend to play down its importance (the rest . This article does not aim to decide the dispute but show what this functionality can be used for by ordinary users. In the first place, the USB Host gives you a POSSIBILITY to enhance your device. It is up to you to use it or not."
Confused about exactly what USB host really is, and how to use it? Pavel Koza from PDAGOLD has written an excellent article that covers some real-world testing of the USB host capabilities of the Loox 720.
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12-09-2004, 12:17 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 109
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Great article.
I don't seem to have the same USB host problems on tHe Toshiba e800 as Pavel is having with the FS720. I would be the first one complaining about having to do so many soft resets, especially with WM2003 and it's slow startup times. :-)
Now that I do have USB host functionality I don't know how I lived without it. I wish HP or Dell would integrate this functionality into their smaller form factor units, especially those that are not dual slot. An HP4150 form factor with a VGA screen and USB host (and maybe a jog dial) would be just about perfect. Once USB host is more common I'd expect more drivers or products that are designed with pocketpc in mind.
USB host works great with the iPod. The only real downside is that it's USB 1.0, which is painfully slow compared to 2.0. I have no problems playing full sized Divx files off the iPod however.
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12-09-2004, 12:34 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by rob_ocelot
The only real downside is that it's USB 1.0, which is painfully slow compared to 2.0.
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What devices do you use a USB host for on your e800? Most of the efforts for new peripherals are for Bluetooth not USB. USB 2.0 does not make things faster then 1.1. There are two speeds of USB 1.1, 1.5Mb and 12Mb. There are three speeds of USB 2.0, 1.5Mb, 12Mb, and 480Mb. Every PDA based on Intel XScale CPU�s (SA1110, PXA250, PXA270) only supports 12Mb modes of USB 1.1 and 2.0. That accounts for more then 98% of the PDA�s that have shipped in the last four years.
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12-09-2004, 02:30 AM
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Theorist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 275
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Judgeless
Most of the efforts for new peripherals are for Bluetooth not USB.
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Depends on anybody's point of view. I still see alot of USB devices being developed (especially flash disks -- don't get me wrong... I love love LOVE BT). The way I am seeing it, USB peripherals are here to stay. I've heard of the same argument when Firewire step into picture 4 years ago, but USB is still here. It's like what other people keep on saying about CF. Even though we keep on seeing SD and other small form factor flash cards are popping up, there is no denying that CF will stay. It might slow down but it will never go away for some time. (wooookey... I'm way off topic. sorry  ops: )
By the way, if a particular version of USB supports multiple speeds, how do I know which one mine supports? (can't find any good documentation about that for my good 'ol E-200).
Thanks in advance.
__________________
John Cruz
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12-09-2004, 03:20 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johncruise
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Judgeless
Most of the efforts for new peripherals are for Bluetooth not USB.
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Depends on anybody's point of view. I still see alot of USB devices being developed (especially flash disks -- don't get me wrong... I love love LOVE BT). The way I am seeing it, USB peripherals are here to stay |
I agree USB devices will be here for years to come. There are a lot of new USB devices coming out all the time. I was referring to USB devices that support being hosted on a PPC. As mentioned in the article above the USB Flash drives work fine, a couple of keyboards work but that�s about it. I would predict a lot of companies that are creating peripherals targeting PPC will not use USB. Bluetooth makes a lot more sense.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by johncruise
By the way, if a particular version of USB supports multiple speeds, how do I know which one mine supports? (can't find any good documentation about that for my good 'ol E-200).
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The E-200 uses a Intel SA1110 CPU that has a built in USB 1.0 controller that supports 1.5Mb and 12Mb. The same speed as the newest devices shipping today like the HP 4700 and the Dell x50v. They only support USB 2.0 1.5Mb and 12Mb not the 480Mb spec.
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12-09-2004, 03:42 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 49
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Judgeless
What devices do you use a USB host for on your e800? Most of the efforts for new peripherals are for Bluetooth not USB.
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I can tell you one I'd love to be able to use: a Garmin eTrex Vista C GPS. USB-only, and all the better for not requiring BT (longer battery life for both devices, more stable connection, less GPS interference, etc.). The iPod also ain't a bad idea, and it doesn't do BT either. Or, really thinking outside the box, how about USB speakers? Or MIDI control of a synthesizer?
BT is not the universal answer the industry wants us to think it is. I understand why the industry wants to cram BT down our collective throats, and I even agree that some of the arguments are compelling. Wireless certainly has its advantages, but so does wired. I am greatly disturbed by the recent industry trend of making users take a side: "Either you support BT, and want every single stinking thing you own to be BT, or you are a hard-connector, and want nothing to do with BT."
Why does it have to be either/or? Why not support both? Isn't that sort of flexibility one of PPC's most touted features?
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Originally Posted by Judgeless
USB 2.0 does not make things faster then 1.1. There are two speeds of USB 1.1, 1.5Mb and 12Mb. There are three speeds of USB 2.0, 1.5Mb, 12Mb, and 480Mb.
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Technically true, but most industry wags promote "USB 1.x" as synonymous with "12Mbps," and "USB 2.0" as synonymous with "480Mbps" (in fact, they usually don't even give speeds, just labeling them as "slow" and "fast"). Inaccurate, annoying, and potentially misleading, yes, but that's the idiom, and I doubt it's going to go away any time soon.
-- Mark
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12-09-2004, 04:42 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 18
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by alizhan
I can tell you one I'd love to be able to use: a Garmin eTrex Vista C GPS. USB-only, and all the better for not requiring BT (longer battery life for both devices, more stable connection, less GPS interference, etc.).
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GPS units run at 4800 baud and the USB units do USB to serial conversion (COM2 and provide power to the GPS. If the PDA is powering your GPS your battery life will be a lot less for both devices. Bluetooth, serial, and USB GPS all offer a stable connection. A GPS radio operates at 15GHz and a Bluetooth device operates at 2.4GHz there is no interference.
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Originally Posted by alizhan
I am greatly disturbed by the recent industry trend of making users take a side: "Either you support BT, and want every single stinking thing you own to be BT, or you are a hard-connector, and want nothing to do with BT."
Why does it have to be either/or? Why not support both? Isn't that sort of flexibility one of PPC's most touted features?
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Most PDA�s are shipping with Bluetooth now and there are lot of peripherals that support it today. A USB host on PPC is not a standard and has very little support. Why create a new standard when one is working fine. I really think based on the industry, people want wireless devices. Wireless cell phones continue to explode. More people are buying laptops then ever because they are wireless device that have full internet access. Most PDA�s include WiFi and Bluetooth because a PDA is mobile wireless device.
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Originally Posted by alizhan
Technically true, but most industry wags promote "USB 1.x" as synonymous with "12Mbps," and "USB 2.0" as synonymous with "480Mbps" (in fact, they usually don't even give speeds, just labeling them as "slow" and "fast"). Inaccurate, annoying, and potentially misleading, yes, but that's the idiom, and I doubt it's going to go away any time soon.
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I tend to agree with you on the misleading part. It�s not the �industry wags� that promote USB 1.x as 12Mb and USB 2.0 as 480Mb. Its all the marketing people. Most devices that have the USB 2.0 logo are 12Mb or a �Full Speed Device�. Most of the USB 2.0 Flash drives do not support 480Mb. The devices that use the 480Mb mode (High Speed) are things like external HD�s and scanners.
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12-09-2004, 02:24 PM
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Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 566
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Judgeless
Most PDA�s are shipping with Bluetooth now and there are lot of peripherals that support it today. A USB host on PPC is not a standard and has very little support. Why create a new standard when one is working fine.
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I want the USB host option simply to have the ability to connect a portable hard drive to the ppc. Even though SD/CF prices have come down significantly, they are still *obscenely* priced in comparison to a good old fashioned spin up hd, and it simply makes no sense to pay the price differential when all we need is the same option on a ppc that's standard on every desktop machine in the world these days (at least on the Wintel side of things).
IF BT can be made to provide that functionality, that would suit me equally well. Or if someone can tell me that I'll be able to purchase a 20gb CF card for $100 (US) any time soon, I'd be even happier. But I'm not holding my breath on either.
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-= Sass =-
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12-09-2004, 02:26 PM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by rob_ocelot
The only real downside is that it's USB 1.0, which is painfully slow compared to 2.0.
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The recent PDA hardvare can't even utilize the full 12 Mbps bandwidth of USB 1.1, so I don't think the lack of USB2 support is that bad. In the other direction (USB slave), the inclusion of the USB2 client on the iPAQ 4700 didn't deliver any performance boost in ActiveSync-based communication.
The average readng/writing speed between a USB hard disk and the F-S PL 720 I've measured is around 300-400 kbytes/s in both directions, which is about the half as the real speed of an average 1.1 unit. (See http://www.firstloox.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2379 on this subject.)
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12-09-2004, 02:45 PM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Judgeless
Most of the efforts for new peripherals are for Bluetooth not USB.
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Well, very few (if any) image tanks (the perfect candidates for really portable and in-the-field usable HDD's; see their list at http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=8951076.) support BT... Image tanks and other, USB-only gadgets are pretty common at tech geeks so USB host remains the one and only way to communicate with them for 1-2 years at least.
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