11-25-2003, 09:11 PM
|
|
Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
|
|
Windows CE 32 Process Limitation: The Ugly Truth
There's just no nice way to frame this: Windows CE 4.2 has a limitation of 32 simultaneous processes. Why is this a problem? Because of the increasing complexity of hardware in devices that now require more software to control them, and also because of developers not always choosing the most efficient route, Pocket PCs like the XDA II are especially vulnerable to this limitation. Arne Hess has write up an article that explains it all:
"Maybe you've also read the rants that the new i-Mate Phone Edition/xda II/MDA II isn't able to handle larger applications and closes other programs in the background if you open a new one. In fact this statement is wrong! The real problem is a different one and it is because the Windows CE platform isn't able to handle more then 32 processes simultaneously! This is - according to my sources (which I also already get confirmed from other sides) - a design limitation which already was introduced with Windows CE 1 and never were expended - even not with today's Windows CE 4 platform.
The result is if a user starts the 33rd process, any of the processes, running in the background is killed by the system. In "best case" it's an application you've launched only, in worst case it's a Windows CE task. Users never have seen it before because by default Pocket PCs were never running that much processes after a softreset. Unfortunately it's different with the HTC Himalaya platform because by default it's running the typical Pocket PC apps plus the Pocket PC Phone Edition applications plus some HTC and O2 customized stuff like Bluetooth, IA Caller ID, IA Camera and for the O2 version O2 Active UI. This means that on a xda II something around 26 tasks are already running in the background - right away after a softreset. Now imagine if you install Spb GPRS Monitor, Pocket Plus and Fullscreen Keyboard also! One task is left for a customer application. Now start ActiveSync which starts 3 tasks by itself and you are done! Your device will need a softreset!..."
The good news is that Spb Software House has come up with a way for developers to stack multiple processes under a single process (thread), so if the majority of developers use this process, it will go a long way toward alleviating this problem. Spb will be publishing an article about this in the next couple of weeks.
|
| |
|
|
|
11-25-2003, 09:18 PM
|
|
Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 217
|
|
Great, I just ordered a XDA II from Expansys because I feel restricted by the 57MB of RAM that HP gives me on the iPAQ 4350. Now it looks like I can't even take advantage of all that wonderful 128MB of RAM on the device. I now wonder if I should cancel the order and stick with my 4350 and Nokia 3650 solution for now. What are your thoughts? Will Microsoft be able to fix this process problem or will Spb's solution cure most of the issues I may see on it?
|
| |
|
|
|
11-25-2003, 09:57 PM
|
|
Theorist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 268
|
|
I LOVE my XDA II. I was able to get a few processes back by taking some things out of \Startup (like the MMS thing - I never use MMS only SMS, some backup features that backup contacts, calendar, etc. to extra ROM, but I use sprite so i dont need these, etc. etc.)
But go Spb! I can't wait til there is a really good fix for this. 
-arebelspy
|
| |
|
|
|
11-25-2003, 09:58 PM
|
|
Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
|
|
Sort of interesting. My XP Pro box on a domain currently has 59 processes and 568 threads. Given my laptop is doing way more than I'd ever expect my Pocket PC to do, including networking services and 14 apps in the system tray, 32 processes should be enough for the average person. CE should certainly be expanded to handle more than 32 processes, but by the same token, it seems some developers are just creating new processes for apps (especially carriers) rather than using threads within a single app.
Anyone know a good app to tell you what processes are running on a Pocket PC - sort of like TaskMan.exe does for Windows XP?
|
| |
|
|
|
11-25-2003, 10:32 PM
|
|
Contributing Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,389
|
|
PHM task manager! I have used it for years, a must have on my ppc no matter what other task switcher/managers i may have installed.
http://www.phm.lu/Products/PocketPC/taskmgr.asp
P.S. Works great with 2003. 
|
| |
|
|
|
11-25-2003, 10:39 PM
|
|
Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jason Lee
|
I can't download it. :? The "activesync .zip" installer isn't a zip file that WinZip can detect and I don't want a CAB file because I want it in my iPAQ File Store. Why wouldn't there just be a standard link that would let me override the WinZip download association like 99.9% of other sites rather than this button thing. :roll:
|
| |
|
|
|
11-25-2003, 10:52 PM
|
|
Contributing Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,389
|
|
Oh well in that case you can use Cab install.
http://www.geocities.com/s_k_s_k_s_kru/util.html
It will let you install a cab file anywhere. you just copy the cabinst.exe to anywhere you want and run it. no install. 
Or i can email you the taskmanager exe.. either way.
EDIT: or you can install the taskmanager cab, copy the exe to your filestore, uninstall the program, then create a new shortcut.
Or install the cab, move the program and change the shortcut.
The cab only installs one exe file. very simple program.
|
| |
|
|
|
11-25-2003, 11:48 PM
|
|
Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,981
|
|
I wonder if this why some of the heavier users often complain about having to do lots of soft resets?? While others don't seem too.
__________________
"I have no special talents, I am only passionately curious" - Albert Einstein |
| |
|
|
|
11-25-2003, 11:55 PM
|
|
Pontificator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,329
|
|
Re: Windows CE 32 Process Limitation: The Ugly Truth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
The good news is that Spb Software House has come up with a way for developers to stack multiple processes under a single process (thread), so if the majority of developers use this process, it will go a long way toward alleviating this problem. Spb will be publishing an article about this in the next couple of weeks.
|
Is it just me or does it seem like its 3rd party companies that are picking up the ball Microsoft seems to be dropping? Does anyone else think a well designed and implemented OS shouldn't need so much third party help?
understand that such a thing can be a strength and a weakness for a platform and that 3rd party companies generally make better, more robust apps/solutions. But where is the line between freedom for the developer and just plain screwing up? :|
__________________
PDA History: Palm Pilot 5000 -> Apple Newton 2100 -> Casio E-11 -> iPaq 3650 (64MB Upgrade) -> iPaq 3700 -> Casio EM-500 -> HP Jornada 568 -> HP iPaq hx4705 www.spreadfirefox.com |
| |
|
|
|
11-26-2003, 02:20 AM
|
|
Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 179
|
|
Reminds me of the days not too long ago of limited IRQs on desktops...or of limited Interrupts in the bad old days of TSRs...why can't OS designers think a wee bit more ahead...
OTOH, I suppose WinCE has been criticised for being slow and a memory hog, when much of this is due to true multitasking and Unicode storage requirements (2 * ASCII)...guess they can't win(ce), can they? :roll:
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Linear Mode
