07-10-2003, 09:55 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,177
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The Common Linux Misconception
About.com has published a review of a Linux PDA called Yopy 3700. A number of things comes to mind when reading the article! I agree with the article author that the Yopy 3700 has a unique form factor and while it might not fit my needs, I do believe that such a form factor has its raison d'�tre. The device does not otherwise stand out from a hardware feature perspective, maybe with the exception of the 128 MB RAM. I would love to see a Pocket PC looking like this.
What really caught my attention, however, was to again see the misconception that Linux in commercial mobile devices is free. This is a quote from the article: "While the cost of licensing the Palm and Pocket PC Operating Systems can be prohibitively high, Linux is based on the Open Source platform, eliminating those high licensing costs. Linux is a great opportunity for a start up to compete with the big boys."
This line of reasoning does not make sense. First of all, a Pocket PC license is less than $20. The Yopy costs $499 meaning that a Pocket PC license cost would mean no more than 4% of that cost. Those 4% would buy an OEM a common and tested platform, access to millions of developers, thousands of applications and so on. To me, that "is a great opportunity for a start up to compete with the big boys".
Instead, from an OEM perspective, when choosing Linux to put in your mobile device you either a) license from someone who has put together a working Linux distribution along with the core PDA applications, or b) build it yourself which brings us to the classic build vs buy decision. I doubt that anyone can put together a mobile device operating system, applications, create a development platform, development tools, work through internationalization, testing, that matches the Pocket PC to a cost lower than $20 or less than 4% of the price of the device. While Linux might have price advantages on the desktop, it certainly does not in mobile devices.
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07-10-2003, 11:05 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 430
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I have one word for Linux solutions that are technically good but stupid from a business perspective: ZEALOTWARE
This thing is zealotware - their business thinking is apparently limited to "we must do linux". The things you present above are valid Andy, and I agree wholeheartedly with you. Many linux zealots are completely devoid of business sense and probably dont know what a business case is...
Aside from the fact that I think this thing looks like a scaled up StarTAC mobile phone (which I also hated), I have to ask why? 8O What compelling features does this have that a product by a bigger company does not have? A bigger company that is more likely to be around in five years? A bigger company that can provide support for my stupid consumer questions?
I really dont see this going well.... :roll:
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Darryl BurlingReporting from the inside :-)blog: www.burling.co.nz |
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07-10-2003, 11:33 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 24
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I agree, Linux is not a free lunch as it is often portrayed.
But, for a device manufacturer there is probably more flexibility licensing a Linux distribution in some ways compared to PocketPC and PalmOS.
No required hardware specs (i.e - PocketPC) and with Linux you get the source code, which you can modify as you need.
Linux distributions have fewer political implications compared to either Palm or PocketPC, and are less able to "punish" licensees for not "towing the company line."
Linux is still a bit immature for most consumer devices, but that's changing (see http://www.eetuk.com/bus/news/OEG20030701S0010)
PalmOS and PocketPC are clearly the obvious choice for the generalized, commodity market, because the applications and consumers are already there.
But for products which have a specialized purpose or niche and taking advantage of those pre-existing applications is not a priority, I do not see a clear advantage to choosing Palm or PocketPC.
In the case of this device however, I do not see a compelling reason to choose Linux, unless using Linux is the specific need. I do like the idea of a folder-type form factor. But, from the specs, this thing seems like a step back from the Zaurus offerings. I'd rather have the Sharp SL-C760, although not at $800.
I do wonder why Linux is not used on mobile phones.
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07-10-2003, 11:44 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 89
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Because Linux is free
Don't confuse free "gratuit" with what should be free "libre". PocketPC seems to be somewhat inflexible to OEM's needs -- the best they can offer is add-on applications, and maybe drivers.
What if someone wanted to rewrite the tasking scheduler? Make a completely different input model than SIP? How about HI-RES screens that rotate? Blow memory limitations off the map?
The OEM can do this. Actually, the USER can do this, since GPL requires the code be included. This kind of flexibility is what embedded devices really need, and Palmtops don't desperately NEED but can be helpful.
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07-10-2003, 11:59 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 45
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I am subscribed to a mailinglist, and a few days ago I read that the gui I like (opie) is fully translated in my language (dutch) by someone on that list. I have not seen Windows Mobile in my language...
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07-11-2003, 12:59 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 309
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Re: Because Linux is free
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Originally Posted by jmarkevich
Don't confuse free "gratuit" with what should be free "libre". PocketPC seems to be somewhat inflexible to OEM's needs -- the best they can offer is add-on applications, and maybe drivers.
What if someone wanted to rewrite the tasking scheduler? Make a completely different input model than SIP? How about HI-RES screens that rotate? Blow memory limitations off the map?
The OEM can do this. Actually, the USER can do this, since GPL requires the code be included. This kind of flexibility is what embedded devices really need, and Palmtops don't desperately NEED but can be helpful.
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ok... I agree that the ability to mess with things like resolution or hardware architecture can be fun, and even useful in the small picture, and I think it's wonderful for users to be able to mess with their OS more than PPC lets them (not even a builtin regedit!). However, as much as I am "pro-linux" I think that allowing those things you said to be up to individual manufacturers can be a very bad thing. Case in point with Palm. There was a point not too long ago that between the standard resolution 160x160 coexisted with the Sony Clie 320x320 along with whatever weird res the soft-graffiti HandEras had. This was a royal mess for developers, as you had to code using everyones APIs and such. It's an awful place to be in; so in that sense the standardization of PPC hardware and software by MS is a good thing. It's less hassle for everyone, and less confusing for endusers.
That said, non-standard Linux has a place. Mostly, I think, for corporations that need a very customized system. For that, on both servers and on PDAs etc. Linux has what it takes as long as your primary issue is not interoperability with existing software or cross-compatibility with new devices. But for PPCs? what a nightmare. I can't even get half the software I want working on the new 2210- imagine if it also had a diff. resolution, a different processor core, even a completely different method of entering appointments. That would be a royal mess.
That said, good point distinguishing between "free beer" and "free speech," as it were. Interesting that some languages have proper different words for them.
Perhaps the FSF should change its name from "free software foundation" to the "Freedom Software Foundation" to clear that up (hey, they get to keep their initials, too!). It has the added benefit of sounding patriotically American (although people may think it's the new name for the French Software Foundation... Freedom Fries, anyone? :wink 
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07-11-2003, 01:23 AM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5
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What about development costs? I was under the assumption that MS was not going to release any more versions of eVC++ or eVB. What is the cost of Visual Studio .Net Pro? About 500 bucks. And besides the license cost, what about the cost of creating your customized version of the OS? Here's a quote on the cost of platform builder:
Platform Builder costs $995 per developer through March 7. After that, it will sell for $2,995. A fully functional version is available for free at www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/ce and will last 120 days. The software can target ARM, MIPS, SuperH and x86 designs.
So now you are talking about $3500 (Platform Builder and Visual Studio) per programmer to create your OEM version of the plus. That's a little more than just $20. And no, I am not a Linux user. I just want people to have all the facts before they go on a rant.
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07-11-2003, 01:38 AM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 717
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Articles like this perpetuate negative stereotypes about MS and promote ignorance by falsely enticing users to believe that if everyone was using Linux the PDA's would cost $1.99 or better yet be free. Shame on you for people for complaining about licensing cost, if you don�t' know the facts investigate them before you make a fool of yourself by writing an article like this. Let�s be hones about this Linux mystery on PDA�s, this unit has some nice features like memory, battery and the design but:
� �Linux can be intense and confusing to a new user
� Hardware compatibility
� Lack of Syncing capabilities with Windows and Mac
� And probably the biggest drawback is the Lack of Software compared to Palm and Pocket PC�
�.Which means that all this PDA is good for is for duck taping it to the front of the car and pretending you are Night Rider. But the flaming chicken Trans AM wasn�t cool then and it certainly is still not cool today.
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07-11-2003, 01:59 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 430
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Re: Because Linux is free
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Originally Posted by jmarkevich
What if someone wanted to rewrite the tasking scheduler? Make a completely different input model than SIP? How about HI-RES screens that rotate? Blow memory limitations off the map?
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Like WisBar, Gigabar, etc. For a SIP, you mean like Fitaly or transcriber (how many more ways do you need to input text). With HiRes Screens, are you meaning like with VGA output or do you have a magical way of increasing the static resolution of tft screens that I have not heard of? Memory limitations? There is only so much 64 Mb RAM can do.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmarkevich
The OEM can do this. Actually, the USER can do this, since GPL requires the code be included. This kind of flexibility is what embedded devices really need, and Palmtops don't desperately NEED but can be helpful.
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OK, so if you want extra functionality, you will recode it? Great. At least with PPC you have the option of C/C++, C#, VB, etc, with linux you have to know C/C++ - What percentage of end users know C++? < 1%? So how is this helpful to the user?
My point is that the wonderful benefits that linux offers come at a price, and why should the end user have to do all this stuff when the functionality is already there for Pocket PCs (and probably PalmOS)? Making Linux based PDAs does not make sense at this stage unless you are a big company that can afford to do lots of extra work (ala Sharp) to ensure a high number of useful devices.
If I was an investor, I would be extremely cagey about investing in a company that was trying to do a Linux PDA.
__________________
Darryl BurlingReporting from the inside :-)blog: www.burling.co.nz |
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07-11-2003, 02:25 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 14
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Bringing up the cost of platform builder is a moot point. If you make or break business decisions for a PDA line based on a $3000 investment then you should get out of the business. $3000 is a drop in the tank.
There is confusion about 'Linux being free' and 'Linux development being free'. Development time and cost of resources is where the real cost is. And you are not going to get Linux developers to code your base platform and do integration with hardware gratis.
As for cost of Linux for embedded platforms, its not free either. Usually you source a base system from a commercial entity selling a customized Linux distro for embedded use. This costs $$$.
Anyone who complains they can hack such a system together in their backyard since all the GNU tools are free are living in a dream world and should stick to slashdot.
As for all the arguments about Linux being confusing - moot point! Its all up to the interface you put on it.
Linux isn't used on mobile phones because the big few (Nokia, etc.) get revenue from selling their platform development kits. Vendor lock-in = profits.
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