11-12-2002, 02:00 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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PalmSource CEO: Dell Doesn't Worry Us
"PalmSource CEO David Nagel was in London to promote the Palm OS 5 operating system for mobile devices. "Dell certainly will have an impact in the handheld computing market...but mainly because of their distribution and sales (expertise). They will bring Microsoft Pocket PC pricing closer to that of Palm (OS-based devices), but even Dell can't close that gap completely."
Can't close the gap completely? Let us take a look at that.
The Dell Axim X5 comes in two flavors. Both have a transflective screen, CF slot and an SD slot (thought not SDIO). The $249 version has 32MB of RAM and ROM and the $349 version has 64MB of RAM and 48MB of ROM. Those become $199 and $299 repectively after the $50 rebate available at launch.
What does PalmSource offer us? Well, on the Sony Clie PEG T665C/D, a $349 offering, we get a 16MB RAM device, a Memory Stick slot and the ability to play MP3s. Keep in mind Memory Sticks are limited to 128MB right now, whereas CF slots go to 1GB and SD slots are starting to see 512MB cards with 1GB available in a few months. So, 2-4 hours of music on the T665, 12-24 hours on the Axim, depending on the bitrate of the recordings. The $249 Sony Clie PEG SJ30 is very similar to the T665, but has no music capabilities. Both Sony's have a 320X320 screen, compared to the Pocket PC's 240X320.
From Palm Inc, we have the Tungsten T. A 16MB device coming in at $499. It has integrated bluetooth and an SDIO slot, but no music player. They tell us a third party app will be available in the future to play music, taking up some of that precious 16MB of space. It also has a 320X320 screen, complete with dust. Palm also has the $199 (after rebate) M130, a 160X160 screen with an unknown amount of colors, somewhere above 256 but below 64,000. :roll: It also has 16MB of RAM and an SD slot, but no music capabilities at all.
Note that the PalmOS devices have a nice suite of software that allows you to view and edit Excel and Word documents, sometimes an email application and maybe a messenger client. All of that, of course, goes in that small 16MB of RAM whereas the Pocket PCs have all of that and more in ROM.
So Mr. Nagle, the Dell and other sub $300 devices don't "close the gap?" I'd say they not only close it, but with a resounding THUD when doing so.  "Nagel's main message, however, was that Microsoft will back a market of clone, Wintel-based handhelds, whereas Palm is looking at allowing manufacturers to maintain profit margins through various types of specialized devices." I'd say that is one heck of a confusing message. In my opinion, the beauty of the Pocket PC is every device has an astounding base feature set. 240X320 screen, voice recording, Windows Media Player, Messenger, Pocket Word/Excel, VPN, Terminal Server client, MS Reader/Audible support, Inbox, full screen handwriting recognition, soft input panel, a simple to use file system for storage cards, Pocket Internet Explorer, etc., all in ROM. Palm's "specialized devices" means some have a few of those features, others might have one or two, and none have all of them.
This is just another verse in the old old song "You don't need it until we have it." I can't wait to see how the OS6 verse comes out when Palm Source finally opens up the available RAM, the ability to multitask and puts in a real file system.
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11-12-2002, 02:16 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 33
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They (palm), just don't get it. They figure that because they have had a headstart in the business sector, that businesses will keep buying their inferior products. People aren't stupid and they will figure it out. In fact, my 1000+ person law firm was one of those that have finally come around. Despite my objections (no one listens to a tax lawyer), our IT department went with the Palm as our firm supported handheld. When the other lawyers saw my snazzy Ipaq, they were jealous. Now after a year and a half of cavetching on my part, we are phasing out the Palms. I have a feeling that we will not be the only ones.
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11-12-2002, 02:22 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 390
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funny thing talking about wintel clone. If wallstreet ever hears he is saying that, Palm Inc is finish. Nobody will bet against wintel clone.
Plus the interview is done before he ever see that Samsung referance design. It would be interesting if Dell sign up, and ask the same question again. See if he still says "What? me worry?"
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11-12-2002, 02:24 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by taxlax
They (palm), just don't get it.
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Reminds me of a quote I saw here - http://wirelessnewsfactor.com/perl/story/19899.html - another Foo source. :lol: "Having the biggest percentage of not very much is not a great business plan. "
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11-12-2002, 03:04 PM
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Theorist
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 300
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The last gap...
While I agree with Ed's arguments - mainly being that, bang for the buck, the gap has been closed and then some - one could argue that, technically, Nagel is right: Palm sells a entry-level model (the Zire) for $99, and so technically, there is a "price gap"
I know, I know - the Zire is a little piece of ****, with virtually no memory, mono screen, and I'm not sure what else it's been stripped off, but the fact remains that it runs Palm OS, and it's under $100. The fact that it's apples to oranges will be lost on many consumers, until they look at them both.
I think that if Samsung or some other OEM comes out with a model based on Samsung's design that sells for $139, running the full PPC2002 OS, and with an SDIO slot, Nagel will have a hard time proclaiming a "gap" with a straight face (I imagine it took a biting of the tongue this time).
Speaking of which - Jason, have you heard any news of when the Viewsonic will ship? (other than the "mid-November" on their site)???
thanx!
__________________
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11-12-2002, 03:21 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 717
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Great strategy Nagel - there is not problem in the world that is so big that you can't ran away from it. I suppse the best way of dealing with news like that is to denay that it exists. R. I . P Palm.....I always wondered how morons like that get to be where they are at.
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11-12-2002, 03:24 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 148
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This is what CEOs do
Foo Fighter, let's be realistic for a second. What else was he going to say? "Oh yeah, with Dell coming in, everyone else is doomed. I've already written my resume." Of course he isn't going to state or even imply that a new competitor is more than his company can handle. To do otherwise would be stupid.
One of the jobs of a CEO is to be a corporate cheerleader. Dell's entry into handhelds has generated a tremendous amount of hype. As the head of PalmSource, part of his job is to try to deflate some of that hype.
Mr. Nagel is right when he said, There is a reticence (on the part of manufacturers) to commit to a single platform." The director of worldwide mobile products for Dell recently said, "The possibility of us producing a Palm OS-based model is not out of the question for the future."
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11-12-2002, 03:33 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 140
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I didn't read that as a feature on why Palm is betetr than PocketPC. Good luck to anybody who tries to compare devices from each camp - what I saw was a criticism of Microsoft's model, that they are treating the mobile market like the PC market.
The PocketPC may be the tool for people who want features, if the people who want features are in a minority, then no matter how whizz-bang the PocketPC is, it's not going to sell as well.
I saw it more as a go at Microsoft's pitch and the deals they offer manufacturers rather than the functionality they deliver for consumers.
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11-12-2002, 03:57 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,466
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Re: This is what CEOs do
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ed@Brighthand
Foo Fighter, let's be realistic for a second. What else was he going to say?
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I didn't realize I was being unrealistic...considering I haven't even posted to this discussion yet. Are you replying to someone else?
If you want my opinion (no matter how unrealistic it may be) I don't expect Dell to have much of an impact at all on the PDA market. Most likely, Dell will use its world class direct model to market this product, which will meet with limited success. Costco and Dell Kiosks in malls will be the only outlet for consumers to try and buy, and that leaves a lot of ground to cover.
Then there is the form factor issue. It's too big/bulky for mainstream users. PDA geeks and IT workers might like it, but the average consumer wants something small, thin, and light.
I could be wrong, but my gut tells me that Dell is more of a threat to HP or Toshiba than either Palm or Sony. The biggest long-term impact Dell's presence will have on Palm licensees is force lower pricing on high-end products. But I'll wager you that Palm's Tungsten stays at $499 for at least another 3-4 months. Palm isn't running scared.
We'll see.
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11-12-2002, 04:08 PM
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Swami
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,396
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Re: This is what CEOs do
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ed@Brighthand
Foo Fighter, let's be realistic for a second. What else was he going to say? "Oh yeah, with Dell coming in, everyone else is doomed. I've already written my resume." Of course he isn't going to state or even imply that a new competitor is more than his company can handle. To do otherwise would be stupid.
One of the jobs of a CEO is to be a corporate cheerleader. Dell's entry into handhelds has generated a tremendous amount of hype. As the head of PalmSource, part of his job is to try to deflate some of that hype.
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Bingo! Calling him "clueless" may just show how clueless the caller is. :-)
No matter what happens (unless you're Enron or MCI), you're going to try to spin something to make you look better. I suspect Nagel may be lying through his teeth, but I doubt he's clueless.
Steve
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