10-29-2002, 04:00 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Is It Possible Pocket PC is Now the Price Leader?
It didn't matter what features the Pocket PC had, there were always three things users of Palm OS devices could say that we really had no response to:
� Battery Life
� Size
� Price
For most of us, more functionality, much more functionality, was more important than those three items within reason. The Casio E-1x5 really exceeded those limits and was a niche player. With virtually all Pocket PC 2002 devices and the iPAQ 3600 Pocket PC 2000 device, size and weight became an important issue in the design of the device. Quite a contrast to the old Palm-sized PC days. Now these devices rival many Palm OS counterparts and even beat them in volume and mass. And where the devices came up a bit heavier or larger, it was a small price to pay for the bigger screens, full screen handwriting recognition, voice recording, multimedia capabilities, etc.
Battery life has also been an area Pocket PCs lagged behind Palm OS devices. Larger screens, a real speaker, more RAM and 206MHz processors. Sort of to be expected eh? Well, through all of that into a PDA and you also expect the price to be at a premium compared to a device lacking many of those features.
Well, Pocket PC OEMs (HP, Toshiba) and ODMs (Compal, HTC) have been fooling with Pocket PCs for over two years now and may have figured out a few tricks in getting all of this into a PDA for Palm OS prices. As far as I can tell, in every way the new Dell Pocket PC and ViewSonic Pocket PC exceed everything the original $499 iPAQ can do, and they do it for $199-$299! Palm and Sony have really only just gotten into the rich media full featured devices in the past year or so, and it wasn't integrated at all. Sony had to add a Digital Signal Processor to enable music, had to hack the screen API to get hi-res, and none of them still has a good file system for accessing the storage card. The new round of OS5 devices will close that gap, but this is their first round of devices with that OS and it shows. The Tungsten T comes out of the gates at $499. Yes, it has integrated bluetooth, yet lacks MP3 capabilities and only has 16MB of RAM. I've not seen prices on the iPAQ 5000 yet, but if their base bluetooth model is $499, it trumps the Tungsten T in just about every way. Of course, if it comes out at a $749 iPAQ 3900-ish price, HP can forget about it. The Sony NX70 is $599, though that includes the largest PDA screen available and has a camera. Still, neither of these devices have the full feature set the Pocket PC does. Want voice recording? Get the Tungsten T because the NX doesn't have it. All Pocket PCs do. Want integrated MP3 capabilities? Go with the NX. The Tungsten T will need a third party app, one that is yet to be delivered and will take up some of that precious 16MB of RAM.
What about battery life? I've seen reports that both the Tungsten T and NX are good for a week being used 30 minutes or so a day. That translates to 3.5-4.0 hours folks. I think even the Toshiba e570 beat that number. Most Pocket PCs easily get 6 hours and my 3900 regularly gives me over 8 hours unless I am playing a processor intensive game like SimCity 2000. Palm and friends haven't figured out how to make use of those 150MHz+ ARM processors and hi-res full color screens yet and still get close to the battery life of the old Motorola Dragonball devices.
Finally size. Held the Sony NX70? Expanded the Tungsten T so you could actually use it? Folks, in my opinion, Palm has given up the lead in price, size and battery life and has not claimed the lead in functionality. As I said in my post earlier today on Q3 market share numbers, the next 6 months could drastically shake up the PDA industry. This Reuters report says basically the same thing. What do you think?
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10-29-2002, 04:14 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,466
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You can read my first post in the PDA marketshare thread to see how I feel: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/foru...ic.php?p=35676
I have to agree with the general antipathy towards Tungsten. It is a nice, solid little device (I placed an order for one yesterday) but it is grossly over-priced for what it offers. 16mb of RAM is outrageously ineffective for "multimedia device". What's worse, because the Tungsten has no built-in media software, it's high-end features can't be tested before making a purchase. Consumers are expected to buy this product on blind faith, much like a blind date. Just hope and pray the audio quality is good, or the volume is loud enough. We'll find out x months from now when (or if) Real gets around to releasing a media player. And even then, there may be a more to this story...I'm betting this will be some sort of mandatory subscription service..adding more cost to the device.
IMO, low-priced Pocket PCs are going to have a significant impact on PalmOS marketshare at the high-end segment. Consumers are going to see many nice $199-$299 PPCs sporting rich color displays and innovative features for 1/3 the price of Palm and Sony offerings? So what value will consumers get for that decidedly more expensive hardware? Elegance? Well, that's not something users generally pay more for. And frankly I wonder how strong the "more available software" argument will be when there are many applications that don't work under OS5, and a sizable number that do behave rather flaky. But PPC still has a way to go as well (no repeating alarms?) before it can really "replace" PalmOS.
Still, I would be extremely surprised to see an all out reversal of the PDA market, with Microsoft taking the lead. PalmOS will still continue to lead for some time, but I expect MS will close the gap my a narrower margin.
This is going to be very interesting to watch....like a slow train-wreck in progress.
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10-29-2002, 04:22 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 62
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Only one thing missing on the PocketPC...
And that is the PalmOS.
It's just a more comfortable and easier OS to use. I can hand it to my 4 years old and she gets it. I can give it to my mother and she gets it. I give them the ipaq and it aint so easy...
For a larger segment of society kiss is the way things need to be. It's a PDA and if it accomplishes the tasks most want (eg. where's that darn telephone number or when is that next dentist appt...?) easily it will continue to win.
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10-29-2002, 04:31 PM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,171
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Re: Only one thing missing on the PocketPC...
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Originally Posted by mememe
It's just a more comfortable and easier OS to use. I can hand it to my 4 years old and she gets it. I can give it to my mother and she gets it. I give them the ipaq and it aint so easy...
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Really? I give my PocketPC to my family and they can find the Start button trivially, and it's easy navigation from there. Whenever I hand a Palm device to someone, they ask "how do I get to the Applications screen?" I have to remind them, "hit the Home thingy". "Oh."
Admittedly some of the more power options, like closing down apps, etc., are not intuitive on PPC, but overall the device is very intuitive. OTOH, show them a online keyboard or Transcriber compared to Graffiti... my dad has absolutely refused to buy a Palm, because he hates Graffiti (and he even learned and worked with it). I had to give him my old iPaq. 
But let's not degrade this into a flamewar about the old Palms... I saw the pics of the Tungsten T. It's cute, but it really has nothing interesting. The Tungsten W is a weaker version of the Treo. Neither shakes me up. The only PalmOS 5 device worth considering is the Sony NX series, and they're huge. And battery life on either the T or the NX is very PocketPC like. It's time to give up this "weeks" convention; that worked with old B&W Palms that had 20+ hour battery life, but none of the new units have that.
--bdj
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10-29-2002, 04:32 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,466
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Re: Only one thing missing on the PocketPC...
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Originally Posted by mememe
For a larger segment of society kiss is the way things need to be. It's a PDA and if it accomplishes the tasks most want (eg. where's that darn telephone number or when is that next dentist appt...?) easily it will continue to win.
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Yes, but that will primarily be a target for the low-end segment (sub $100) where margins are razor thin, and very little profit can be made.
Palm is a pure-play, completely dependant on PDA hardware sales. They can not afford to loose volume or margins. Larger service oriented corporations like HP and Dell aren't locked into PDA sales. If sales drop off, it will barely have any impact on overall profits. If Palm sales drop off, the company is on life-support.
The real question will be..can Palm survive as an independant hardware vendor...or will they be hung out to dry by the big boys?
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10-29-2002, 04:41 PM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,171
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Foo Fighter
I have to agree with the general antipathy towards Tungsten. It is a nice, solid little device (I placed an order for one yesterday) but it is grossly over-priced for what it offers.
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Can I ask a stupid question? Why'd you buy one then? 
--bdj
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10-29-2002, 04:50 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,466
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyJ
Can I ask a stupid question? Why'd you buy one then? |
Mainly to play around with the new OS and see what the transition to ARM code will be like. This is the big moment we Palm users have all been waiting for, and I don't like criticizing a product I haven't used. It's only fair I try out the Tungsten/OS5 before bashing the new platform.
I ordered directly from Palm. They offer a 30 day return policy, so if I'm not satisfied (I think I just heard the other shoe drop) I can send it back for a refund. This probably isn't going to be a 'keeper".
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10-29-2002, 04:52 PM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,171
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Foo Fighter
Mainly to play around with the new OS and see what the transition to ARM code will be like. This is the big moment we Palm users have all been waiting for, and I don't like criticizing a product I haven't used. It's only fair I try out the Tungsten/OS5 before bashing the new platform.
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Whew, you're just an equal-opportunity basher :lol:
Seriously, if I were to try out a OS 5 device it would be the Sony.
--bdj
p.s. What's your regular everyday device that makes you a "Palm user"?
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10-29-2002, 05:01 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,466
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyJ
Whew, you're just an equal-opportunity basher :lol:
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People attack me from both sides of the fence. Once side accuses me of being a PPC basher, the other accuses me of being a Palm basher. I should just buy a Linux PDA and tell you all to go screw yourselves. :P
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Seriously, if I were to try out a OS 5 device it would be the Sony.
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The SONY NX is impressive, but I don't like the clamshell design. Seems too awkward to me. The screen is drop dead gorgeous though. 8O
I prefer the traditional "pad style" form factor.
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p.s. What's your regular everyday device that makes you a "Palm user"?
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It was a Sony T615, but I recently sold. At the moment I have fallen back to my old (very old) Palm M505. That too is going up for sale soon, when the Tungsten arrives.
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10-29-2002, 05:02 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 20
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NX70 does have voice recording...
Correcting an error in the article - the NX70 does come with a built in voice recording application.
The microphone also allows movies with sound. Quality is nice.
And media players for the Tungsten will come. I've been playing with a very nice Audible player.
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