07-09-2002, 05:45 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Are we really in a computerized society?
I need to rant here for a minute - bear with me.
I was at Chapters last night (a big book store chain we have in Canada) doing some research for a book I'm possibly writing, and my wife and I decided to pick up a couple of books. I'm a member of their "Chapters Club", which gets me 10% discounts on most purchases, but I never carry the card with me because I usually order online. Incredibly, when I went up to the till, they had no way to look my account up. They have no method to look up a customer account unless that customer has the card with them! They have no connection to their own web site for customer data. Further, when I shop online I get $5 rebate coupons - and these coupons can only be used in the store, not online (oh the humanity of it all!).
It amazes me that in 2002 we're still shackled to bar codes and magnetic strips for our identities and claiming vendor promotions - we still need to carry little "2 for 1" coupons in our wallets or purses. Why is that? Beyond the basic reason of disparate systems that can't communicate easily with each other, there's a more sinister element at play here in some organizations: those dang marketing people. Because I forgot my Chapters Club card, and, shucks, they have no way to look up my information, I lose my 10% discount. Bottom line? The company makes 10% more from my purchase.
Another great example: Blockbuster has a program that you join for $10 a year, and it gives you a $2-off coupon every month. But instead of digitally tying those coupons to your account, making it automatic, they're betting that out of those twelve coupons, the average customer will only use some of them because they'll forget to carry them into the store. Yet another example: I saw two CDs I wanted to buy in a local music store, but opted to walk to the other end of the shopping mall to the store that was charging $2 more per CD, just to get two stamps on my "Buy 10 get 1 free" card. Guess what? They discontinued the program and have no replacement.  Why was I being loyal to that company again?
Sometimes corporate greed frustrates me. There's nothing wrong with making money, but don't do it at the expense of your customers. If you're going to create systems to reward your customers for shopping there, REWARD them! Don't make it difficult for them to benefit from your programs, and don't give them a reason to get frustrated and shop elsewhere. Rant done. I feel better. Been frustrated by something similar recently?
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07-09-2002, 06:02 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 173
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Why Rebates Work
I remember when I realized the same thing. It's not about connectivity, it's totally about marketing. What gets me is the marketing of rebates. They are COMPLETELY designed around people's inconvenince. Here's a marketing chart http://www.frontlinenow.com/newslett...tionrates.html that shows that less than 50% usually remember. Rebates aren't a reward, they're a trick. And coupons? They're not rewards. They're little pieces of marketing trackers. It's worth $5 or 10% just to see how their marketing is doing.
So if I were you, I'd've left that store and ordered online in protest. I always dilligently fill out my rebate forms. Don't let the man push you down!!
hehe, sorry, little carried away :lol:
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07-09-2002, 06:24 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Re: Why Rebates Work
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Originally Posted by Fitch
...that shows that less than 50% usually remember. Rebates aren't a reward, they're a trick.
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I can't believe what I'm reading here:
"Planning a rebate promotion for your product in the channel? Here's a convenient planning guide for estimating redemption rates based on statistics compiled by TCA Fulfillment. TCA Fulfillment stands behind these rates. If you are using another fulfillment company, add 20% to these redemption rates."
They're BRAGGING about having a WORSE redemption rate, because it only makes more money for the company. They're PROUD of the fact that less consumers turn in their rebates than anyone else. How sick is that? When did customers become the enemy? When did we become so easy to trick? :evil:
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07-09-2002, 06:25 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 52
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different stuff-
I think you have some different stuff mixed together here-
Regarding rebates, I don't consider them a 'trick'. A trick would be if you sent in the rebate and never got your rebate money. Rebate terms are always spelled out pretty clearly, just send in your form and receipt within a month or so, and you get your money.
It is true that rebate redemption rates are ridiculously low, but whose fault is that? The company or the consumer? It's because redemption rates are so low that companies can often offer such great rebates. What really ends up happening is that those that redeem are 'profiting' at the expense of those that don't redeem.
If you know you're the type of person that never sends in the rebate form, don't buy stuff based on rebate discounts.
The other stuff I totally agree with. Discontinuing promotional programs without any recourse for the customer, not having a simple lookup to verify someone's membership...these things are not so much indicative of a non-computerized society as they are just examples of poor business. In the end, what comes around goes around. I always hated Blockbuster anyway- why does a 1 day late fee cost just as much as the 5-day rental?
Regarding the coupons and stuff, paper coupons are going to be around for awhile simply because most consumers don't have the means to use anything else. Most people get the Sunday paper delivered, and clip coupons, so that's how you reach them. Same goes with the discount cards at supermarkets and stuff.
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07-09-2002, 06:30 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 481
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Re: Are we really in a computerized society?
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
... Bottom line? The company makes 10% more from my purchase.
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Bottom line is they should loose the sale. Problem there is that they have no way to measure that, so they won't realize it.
And I ditto the rebate comments made by Fitch.
I can't see how established companies, be it the retailer or manufacturer, can be willing to take the ill feelings that are generated when a person is ripped off on a rebate, be it restrictive conditions, plain lack of fulfillment, or even customer error or forgetfulness. I know it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I loose a rebate that coerced me to buy something, and I don't forget it. I can tell you every retailer and manufacturer and the amount of money involved over the last 4 or so years. But, again, they have no way to measure such ill will generated, and they can measure low followthrough and the profits gained, so they don't see the problem and nothing will change.
Get us started on rebates and this will be a long discussion.
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07-09-2002, 06:41 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Re: different stuff-
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Originally Posted by madmaxmedia
It is true that rebate redemption rates are ridiculously low, but whose fault is that? The company or the consumer? It's because redemption rates are so low that companies can often offer such great rebates. What really ends up happening is that those that redeem are 'profiting' at the expense of those that don't redeem.
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I know what you're saying, and perhaps it's too strong to call them a "trick", but I'm very good about sending in rebates and several times I've felt like I've been screwed by them. Like when they expire three days after you buy the product (and you didn't realize this), or you need to send in something that you don't have, and sometimes the complexity is just mind boggling (triplicate copies of this, sign here but not there). Even the language they use can be a barrier for people with poor English skills. I think all those elements contribute to the low rebate conversion rate.
If it was a "true" rebate, it would be done instantly at the till when you buy it - but instant rebates are pretty rare in comparison to traditional rebates.
Call me simple, but just let me buy your product at the best price you can sell it to me for and be done with it.
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07-09-2002, 06:43 PM
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Editorial Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,411
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Rebates :evil: I hate friggin rebates. Yes I send them in. If you do this a lot, you need a PC to track them, since they take anywhere from 2-6 months to show up. Then they show up with nothing to say what they were for, except the amount. So even if you track them, you have to wonder what you bought from Consumer Fullfillment Center, Youngstown, OH.
The irritating thing to me though is the ad pricing. Tell me what I have to shell out of my pocket, not what I will supposedly pay if I send in the three rebates, the store rebate, the manufacturer rebate, the special combined offer rebate, and wait twelve weeks.
Just my 2 cents (actually $10 with a $9.98 rebate)
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07-09-2002, 06:47 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Originally Posted by Sven
Just my 2 cents (actually $10 with a $9.98 rebate)
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ROTFLMAO....!!!! :lol: :lol:
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07-09-2002, 06:47 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 52
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I can't see how established companies, be it the retailer or manufacturer, can be willing to take the ill feelings that are generated when a person is ripped off on a rebate, be it restrictive conditions, plain lack of fulfillment, or even customer error or forgetfulness.
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If a company offers a rebate with hidden strings, then I'm totally with you. Something that the customer isn't aware of, that prevents them from getting the rebate money. That's just another bad example of bad business.
But what are you going to do beyond printing the terms (especially the deadline date) right there on the form? Call the customer's mother?
Rebates are a way for companies to offer promotions on products that are already in stores, without having to complicate things with the retailers or distributors- the retailers have already bought product at a certain price and want to sell it at their price. The rebate avoids the entire supply chain and often (not always) goes straight from the manufacturer to the consumer.
Yes, the rebate redemption % comes into play. But again, that's why there are such good rebate offers out there. How else could you get a case of 100 CD-R's for $5, or even free? No one is 'coercing' you into doing anything. If a company makes a reasonable effort to outline the terms of (any) sales promotion, it's up to you to determine whether you want to buy their product. If you're bad at redeeming rebates, don't factor them in your purchase decision- how hard is that?
I've failed on plenty an occasion in the past to send in a rebate and have kicked myself. But I have never once considered it the company's 'fault' that I couldn't spend 2 minutes to send in a letter within 1 or 2 months after I bought the product.
Actually, now that I have my PDA, I've never failed to redeem a rebate- all I need to do is create an appointment a week before the deadline, and I get it done!
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07-09-2002, 07:08 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 713
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Confessions of a coupon clipper and rebate mailer
OK, at the risk of being totally alone on this I'm going to come down on the other side on just about everything.
1) Rebates. Rebates are not a trick. They do not "coerce" you into buying something. As long as the rebater delivers the promised goods to the rebatee once the rebatee does what is required then how can it be a trick? If someone loses the receipt or is too lazy to fill out a card and put it in the mail then who is to blame? Just because a high percentage of people fall into the "too lazy" category why should we look down on rebates? If you are too busy to fill out the card then don't make your purchase based on the cost with the rebate.
2) Discount card systems cost money. Giving access to the account at every cash register costs money. Training some high school kid to look up the information costs money. All these enticements to get you to shop somewhere get passed right back to you in the form of markup. Heck it costs me time if I'm standing in line behind you and you forgot your card and Joe-Teenager takes fifteen minutes to find your $2.00 discount. What does it cost for you to put the card in your wallet and leave it there? NOTHING.
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we still need to carry little "2 for 1" coupons in our wallets or purses. Why is that?
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3) I'll tell you why. Because that little coupon is a subtle hint to come in and buy something. They're begging you to come shop with them. There's nothing sinister about that. They give you (or sell you, you weren't specific) a 10% discount in return for carrying a little billboard in your wallet that says "come spend you money with us, not those other guys." What's wrong with that? Heck 10% adds up to a lot in a year for me. For the cost of carrying a quarter ounce of plastic I save about $200 a year in books alone.
Honest marketing doesn't trick anyone. It doesn't coerce anyone. It tries hard to convince people that they want or need something more than something else. Unless you are ridiculously succeptible to suggestion (if you are then send me all of your money, right now!) most people recognize marketing for what it is. If the coupons and cards bother you and you feel they are a trick used to bilk you out of your hard earned cash then don't use them. Don't base purchases on rebates (they aren't mandatory). Don't join clubs that get you 10% discounts (you won't have to remember the card that way). Don't clip coupons, don't watch for sales, don't comparison shop at vendors who match prices + 10%, and don't purchase extended warranties that you might not remember to use.
Pay full price everytime and marketing will go away.
Now if you'll excuse me, I've go to go clip some coupons and mail some rebates. :wink:
Bwana Jim
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