06-12-2002, 03:26 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Is hand-writing recognition dead?
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-934637.html
That's what Handspring is betting on - they've found with their own products that people prefer using the small keyboard to writing on the screen. Ahem - Mr. Hawkins, what rational human being would want to learn Graffiti? I applaud those of you who are proficient with it, but I found it very daunting to learn as I'm sure many people do - it's not logical or rational. People are willing to accept learning curves with most software and hardware, but when it comes to input, I think people have less patience - they just want it to work. Keyboards, even tiny ones, are easy to understand - there's no learning curve, except perhaps to adjust to the key spacing, etc.
I think this is why Transcriber is such an instant hit with people - we all know how to print, and Transcriber needs no training. People pick it up, and it works - Graffiti simply can't compete in this area. That said, I hope Microsoft/Paragraph seriously improves Transcriber in the future - it has a great technological base, but so much of the implementation sucks. The "dictionary" is a joke and the correction features are downright bizarre. But are keyboards the answer? Or smarter software? I'm betting on smarter software. What do you think?
"Chief Operating Officer Ed Colligan, speaking at a CIBC World Markets investor conference here, told attendees that his company was surprised that consumers preferred entering information via keyboard, rather than using writing technology popularized by Palm's Graffiti technology..."
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06-12-2002, 03:31 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 50
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Hmm, it also could be the patent litigation with Xerox over Graffiti. Obviously a keyboard would not conflict with the patent.
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06-12-2002, 03:42 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 24
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Luckily, Xerox seems to get along with Microsoft
I hated Graffiti until 8 months ago, when the flu laid me up with my new PPC2K2 device...lo and behold, 2 feverish days late, I no longer hated Graffiti, and now do 50 wpm 
I hope new Pocket PC's don't follow this abandonment trend!
John Mierau
http://www.compu2go.com
~ultramobile computing & tech for people on the Move!
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06-12-2002, 04:08 PM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7
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I would love to see a Pocket PC with a keyboard. I really want a Pocket PC that looks like a Treo: flip lid, keyboard, very small, vibrating silent alarm and very light (4 oz.).
Hopefully they'll make both a normal one and a keyboard version, but I really think a keyboard version is better. Why? Because with a keyboard you are using two hands/fingers to input your text which should be faster than handwriting or Fitaly (which I use now). Also, my hand gets tired of writing after a couple of sentences with Transcriber (It's just not the same as pen and paper).
However, I still would like to use Fitaly or possibly handwriting on occasions when I just want to jot down a small note.
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06-12-2002, 04:10 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 34
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I think character recognizing is essential to any handheld device.
Transcriber is a good example of what can be done.
External Keyboards existence is a proof of lack of maturity in the PDA industry.
Of course, both input system and applications must collaborate to offer te end user an easy way to work. However text input is fundamental so a resonable way to enter text is necessary. Keyboard is reasuring for the user because it mimics the traditional desktop keyboard but character recognition is the right way to go.
By the way, Paragraph has received a number of times recommendations on how to achieve better recognition rates but they seem to ignore external advice. It is a pity for final users because these methods do work. Anyone remembers Transcriptor?
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06-12-2002, 04:23 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 111
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Although I've been firmly in PocketPC land ever since I sold my Visor and got an ipaq, I have to stand up and say a few kind words for grafitti. Although it puts a learning curve on users, it was a pretty elegant solution for the problem of text entry on a device (Palm) without the horsepower for full handwriting recognition (and in the wake of the Newton's widely mocked recognition software). I learned it pretty quickly, and still use it on my ipaq when I want to take a quick, short note. My friends with Palm devices all use it too, and it didn't take them long to get the hang of it (after I told them to play Giraffe for a while), and I've met people who can get real speed out of it.
Although keyboards are great (especially the folding ones), I think there will always be a place for using a stylus on a PDA, as if you're using a notepad. Maybe Transcriber will be in that place (it is impressive, when it's not mangling my words), but I'm sure a lot of people will continue to rely on Grafitti.
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06-12-2002, 04:34 PM
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Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 516
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Re: Is hand-writing recognition dead?
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
I applaud those of you who are proficient with it, but I found it very daunting to learn as I'm sure many people do - it's not logical or rational. People are willing to accept learning curves with most software and hardware, but when it comes to input, I think people have less patience - they just want it to work. Keyboards, even tiny ones, are easy to understand - there's no learning curve, except perhaps to adjust to the key spacing, etc.
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I disagree, the learning curve for Graffiti is quite small and, IMO, the long-term benefits far outweigh the short-term pain. Do you use Transcriber? I see a lot of PPC users tout Transcriber as the greatest input method ever, yet few of these people even use it. Why? Because it's inefficient, inaccurate, and a pain to make corrections. Even a thumbpad has a learning curve. First, a lot of people don't know how to touch type and so have to learn where the letters are. By this logic, the easiest most dumbed-down input method would be a thumbpad where the keys were in alphabetic order. The other problem with a QWERTY thumbpad is that the QWERTY layout was optimized for using 10 fingers to stretch to the keys with the least amount of stretching for the more commonly used keys (let's leave DVORAK out of the discussion for now). On a thumbpad, you're now using two fingers (thumbs actually) and the paradigm no longer works as well. FITALY has a learning curve but has a definite speed advantage once you do learn it (but has other faults which I won't get into).
There's probably no perfect input method. They each have strengths and weaknesses. One of the neat things about the PPC with it's virtual input area is that you can use the best input method for the specific task at hand. You could also use Transcriber for initial data input and FITALY for corrections, for example.
Finding the right "standard" input method for a device also needs to take into account the primary uses of the device. When the first Palm Pilot came out, it was designed primarily to be an efficient calendar, address book, to-do list, and note taker. For all but the note taking task, a stylus-based input method (and, IMO, Graffiti specifically) works best. Only in the case of inputting medium-length notes does the thumbpad excel (again, I'm talking about efficiency gains after any initial learning curves). In the case of the Treo communicator devices, the thumbpad's advantages strengthen because the device now adds email and Instant Messaging to the list of "commonly used" applications (though I have issue with that assessment as well, due to the fact that there's no unlimited usage plan offered - but that's an issue for another discussion). With email and IM, you're doing medium-length strings, which is why the thumbpad makes sense with these devices. But with the Treo 90, which is not wireless-enabled, the thumbpad, while a nice option for those who are afraid of learning Graffiti, is not the best input method for the device.
Scott
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06-12-2002, 04:46 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Re: Is hand-writing recognition dead?
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Originally Posted by Scott R
I disagree, the learning curve for Graffiti is quite small and, IMO, the long-term benefits far outweigh the short-term pain.
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Scott, you forgot to add "in my opinion" to your statement. :wink: I think the learning curve for Graffiti is huge, you think it's small. Which one of us is right? Graffiti requires you to learn a new alphabet (or at least parts of it), and I consider that to be a significant learning curve, especially for people like myself who are highly uni-lingual (I have no talent for learning new languages).
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06-12-2002, 04:55 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 43
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Long live graffiti
In my opinion too, the learning curve for graffiti is small for the normal alpha numeric characters. The extended punctuation for characters like # and % take a little more learning. The only real issue is being willing to put the time into learning it! (I too am highly uni-lingualy, having given up on foriegn languages over 15 years ago).
However, the current crop of thumb boards are great too. My favourite solution is on the Sharp Zaraus - with the keyboard being hidden underneath a sliding panel. The major benefit with this solution is that you get the function keys / cursor control. Devices like the Treo loose the benefit of this.
The only problems I have had are with Pocket PCs' - But this is ENTIRELY down to not spending enough time one and being too used to graffiti!
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06-12-2002, 05:01 PM
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Editorial Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,411
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Re: Is hand-writing recognition dead?
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Originally Posted by Scott R
The other problem with a QWERTY thumbpad is that the QWERTY layout was optimized for using 10 fingers to stretch to the keys with the least amount of stretching for the more commonly used keys Scott
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No it wasn't. It was designed to slow down the most proficient typists by not having the letters in a statistically appropriate layout. The issue was one of mechanics. The faster the typist, the more often the mechanism jambed. You are probably not old enough to have had to stop and clear jambs in a Royal upright 
I actually find transcriber remarkably accurate when I am handwritting (not printing) and using real words (not acronyms). Unfortunately my handwritting is atrocious so I tend to print, and my environment supports and fosters acronyms.
I think learning graffitti would be somewhat like learning touch typing or shorthand. Some have more of an apptitude for that than others. Some can learn a dozen languages and some barely speak their own well. I've go to think speech recognition is going to be the Holy Grail, but we are a long way from that. At least I think so from this side. When we get to look back, I'll bet it will seem like just yesterday we were forced to scrawl on our PDAs
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