07-22-2008, 10:42 AM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Originally Posted by Duncan
I like that - 'Wifi is as easy as it gets (assuming no encryption or just typing in a WEP/WPA key'. That's one hell of a qualification there. WiFi can be fantastically easy without security - but then you'd be pretty stupid not to secure your WiFi. The same applies to Bluetooth.
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Really? Starbucks doesn't have a secure WiFi connection. Most hotels don't either. Just run your laptop or PDA on and you are connected. You might have to type in a user id and password on a web page, or might have to click on an EULA, but that's it. I wasn't talking about setting up a Wifi network, just making a connection. Even when you have to type in a WEP/WPA key, it just works, for months and years. With all of my headsets and BT devices, I have to delete and recreate pairings several times a year to get them to work.
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You're unusual I'll say that. I was in a train station the other day and it was hard to see anyone who wasn't Bluetoothed up. I've helped friends with almost every aspect of technology over the years, but have never been asked to help with Bluetooth (and I've recommended its use many a time) and have been thanked for pointing people towards the technology.
If you are a Luddite, then you are a curiously selective one. You'll forgive WiFi it's complexities (and I'll point to Jason's recent rant on 802.11n as an example of how user unfriendly that can be), but get annoyed at Bluetooth for taking you through the fewest and simplest possible steps to ensure a secure connection. You constantly hold out hope for other short range wireless technologies, but never seem to think about how they will ensure secure connections, or how they can be that different to Bluetooth. You've predicted the death of Bluetooth time and time again yet, for all its supposed user-unfriendliness, it's now so big as to be pretty much ubiquitous. I would bet too that if a piece of WiFi kit turned out to be poor you wouldn't blame the standard, you'd blame the implementation - yet with Bluetooth you always blame the standard and never the implementation of that standard.
Seriously Ed - I don't know how many thousands of anti-BT posts you're up to now, but Bluetooth won conclusively a while back. The technology is easy, widely used, and poor implementations are rare now. That Best Buy has found a way to fleece people by offering a service that no-one with a three figure IQ should need says far more about them and people's innate laziness (heaven forbid they should read the manual or follow on screen instructions for themselves) than it does about Bluetooth.
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Duncan, I just don't see the world through bluetooth tinted glasses, that's all.
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07-22-2008, 02:17 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Really? Starbucks doesn't have a secure WiFi connection. Most hotels don't either. Just run your laptop or PDA on and you are connected. You might have to type in a user id and password on a web page, or might have to click on an EULA, but that's it. I wasn't talking about setting up a Wifi network, just making a connection. Even when you have to type in a WEP/WPA key, it just works, for months and years. With all of my headsets and BT devices, I have to delete and recreate pairings several times a year to get them to work.
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With my BT devices I set them up and pair them and then that is it. Just making a connection is as simple as that. Though initial set up is simpler than for WiFi. I have no idea why you have so many problems. Frankly I find your experiences more than a bit weird - could it be that your devices know you don't like their Bluetooth abilities and so deliberately set out to wind you up? 
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Duncan, I just don't see the world through bluetooth tinted glasses, that's all.
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Sorry Ed, but no. I go through life not thinking or caring about the Bluetooth abilities of my devices. It's so simple, obvious and useful that 99.9% of the time I regard Bluetooth with as much thought as I do my power cables. All I care about is that they work and they make things easier.
I responded here mainly because I do find your one man war on Bluetooth to be just a touch funny, in its sheer doggedness in the face of all the evidence about how much Bluetooth is now an everyday matter for so many people. Not to mention that I've never seen an answer from you as to how Bluetooth connections, which need to be secure, could be made better or simpler.
To be frank Ed, I really don't think it's me that has the distorted vision here.
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07-22-2008, 07:02 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Really? Starbucks doesn't have a secure WiFi connection. Most hotels don't either. Just run your laptop or PDA on and you are connected. You might have to type in a user id and password on a web page, or might have to click on an EULA, but that's it. I wasn't talking about setting up a Wifi network, just making a connection. Even when you have to type in a WEP/WPA key, it just works, for months and years.
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Well, try connecting to a hotel Wi-Fi using your Windows Mobile device. At best it's a challenge to scroll around the login Web page to find the fields to fill in, at worst (and quite often) it's impossible because the Web page doesn't support mini browsers.
I have also had numerous problems with devices - both laptops and Windows Mobile, not finding a wireless network that it was previously connected to. Performing a reboot usually solves this, but sometimes I need to delete the Wi-Fi network and re-enter it in order to make the connection.
I agree with you that Bluetooth is far from perfect, but the issues it has are not atypical of high-tech "standards".
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07-23-2008, 10:16 AM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
I responded here mainly because I do find your one man war on Bluetooth to be just a touch funny, in its sheer doggedness in the face of all the evidence about how much Bluetooth is now an everyday matter for so many people. Not to mention that I've never seen an answer from you as to how Bluetooth connections, which need to be secure, could be made better or simpler.
To be frank Ed, I really don't think it's me that has the distorted vision here.
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The maybe you didn't notice that I was linking to another article on the issue, so it isn't just me that has the "distorted vision."
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07-23-2008, 10:18 AM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daS
Well, try connecting to a hotel Wi-Fi using your Windows Mobile device. At best it's a challenge to scroll around the login Web page to find the fields to fill in, at worst (and quite often) it's impossible because the Web page doesn't support mini browsers.
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Yeah, PIE is more and more of a pain and simply unacceptable when the iPhone has had a real browser out now for more than a year.
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07-23-2008, 01:29 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
The maybe you didn't notice that I was linking to another article on the issue, so it isn't just me that has the "distorted vision."
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I did notice the linked article Ed. I also noticed its sarcastic tone and the headline ('finger pointing') that showed what the Engadget guy thought of those needing such a service. A also read the comments section - chock full of people being scathing about those who can't handle pairing a BT headset.
Total technophobes, lazy sods and idiots - in a nutshell the three groups of people who can't cope with such a simple task (and that's a lot less of a harsh assessment than I could give). Mind you - my wife is in that first group, and she didn't need my help pairing a BT headset.
Linking to an article doesn't make you any the less of an exception either Ed. The millions who use BT headsets and in-car kits every day are proof enough that most people find the technology easy enough and good enough. I was in a mobile phone shop yesterday. Mindful of this thread I asked the guy (who had been telling me about the number of returns they'd had for one phone model) about people returning or having issues with Bluetooth devices. His answer? That he'd never processed a return that wasn't because the device was simply faulty, and that the number of people who needed simple phone functions explaining dwarfed those who had issues with Bluetooth.
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07-23-2008, 01:31 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Yeah, PIE is more and more of a pain and simply unacceptable when the iPhone has had a real browser out now for more than a year.
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Opera on the HTC Touch Pro is a thing of joy though (and presumably, by extension, on the Diamond as well). Arguably better than Safari.
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07-31-2008, 04:59 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 22
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Oh wow....
What's the world coming to? Heh...
I didn't know about this until I was in Staples yesterday standing in the checkout line when I saw a sign hanging with "(Bluetooth symbol) Paring $9.99". I was pretty dumbstruck, I gotta tell ya. I just stood there, scratching my head, trying to figure out what that meant because, well, pairing Bluetooth devices isn't exactly rocket science. In fact, practically second-nature stuff like doing other settings such as entering contacts and setting up ringers, etc. At least for me, anyway.
No sooner had I begun to wonder when I saw a pensioner sit down in one of the display chairs near the checkout with a Bluetooth earphone in one hand and his phone in another. He had all kinds of looks of frustration and puzzlement across his face. Interesting footnote: he had no manual cracked open anywhere near him. Right then I figured it out. Either he was trying to save the $10 (likely- any amount is important on a fixed budget) or he wasn't going to let his pride get the best of him figuring things out the hard way. Being the nice guy that I was (bored standing in the long line, really), I walked over to him and assisted him with the pairing, showing him how it's done.
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