Jason Dunn

Pony99CA

Photoshop Elements certainly looks cool, but that "$50 rebate" is really two rebates -- a $20 Amazon rebate and a $30 upgrader rebate. So users who aren't upgrading will only get the $20 off.

Here's what the Adobe Web site says about the rebate:

I have a lot of photo editing applications that came with things I've bought -- Adobe PhotoDeluxe with a digital camera, Ulead PhotoImpact with a scanner -- but if the upgrader rebate requires a receipt or a UPC code, I probably can't get that. :-( Of course, the details of the rebate are in the box. :x

Finally, the upgrade deal ends 12/31/2002, so order fast if you want this.

Also, why does Amazon need to make that $20 off a rebate? It should be a coupon. They'll already have my shipping and billing addresses, so what does a rebate get them (other than the hope that I won't send it in)?

On the positive side, you can also get 5 free sheets of Kodak 4x6 Ultima Picture Paper for Inkjet Prints with the coupon code PHTEDTKDAK89.

Steve

Rirath

Not my favorite of Photoshop tools... it's in the same category as PhotoDeluxe to me. If you're really looking for something cheaper than PS, try Jasc's Paint Shop Pro or The Gimp. Photoshop also offers a Photoshop lite, but it's not really all that great.

It amazes me there are still people who find Photoshop too hard to use. It's a paint program, with a very clear layout. The menus are all well described, and flow nicely. Even Painter has a higher learning curve, and if you can't even learn PS then don't even try programs like 3ds Max or Maya.

SassKwatch

I don't think it's the ease of use (or lack thereof depending on one's point of view) that scares many away from PS. Instead, I think it's the price.

For the avg digital photographer wanting the ability to do a fair amount of digital darkroom work, Elements is a GREAT tool.

For anyone with professional aspirations....or has the funds to act like one, then yes, the full on PS is THE way to fly.

__________________


-= Sass =-

Jason Dunn

Bugger! Very misleading of them to do this...sorry for the misdirection. :?

Jason Dunn

Have you ever looked at Elements? I don't have much experience with it, but the Photoshop Lite versions Adobe used to release were just crippled versions of Photoshop. Elements has huge UI overhauls that streamline the editing process in a way Photoshop doesn't.

I'd have to disagree. I was a hardcore Photoshop user at version 4.0, and didn't touch it again until a few weeks ago when I picked up 6.0 off ebay. I'm still amazed at how strangely Photoshop works. I was resizing an image, went into the image settings, changed to a % resize instead of pixels, resized it, then went back to the image. I wanted to resize another image, went into the resize settings, and the resize settings were back to pixels! Something as simple as not remembering user settings slows down the workflow process.

I'm sure I'll be able to work faster once I become more familiar with it, but in my opinion Photoshop still suffers from the same work-flow impedements that I struggled with several years ago.

PhotoImpact 8 is my weapon of choice, because it lets me work as fast as I can.

serpico

marlof

Pony99CA

I agree with Jason -- these tools aren't aimed at the same audience.

Even the dig at PhotoDeluxe (which I believe Photoshop Elements has replaced) is out of line. I have used PhotoDeluxe to do things like remove red eye and wrinkles from photos that I have no idea how to do in Photoshop.

True, I'm not a Photoshop expert, but I could correct red eye in PhotoDeluxe in less than 10 minutes.

First, I don't believe Photoshop is really a "paint program", but you know how I like to argue about terminology. :-) It's primarily intended as a photo manipulation program, not a paint program.

What are the differences, you ask? In my opinion, a paint program is intended to allow someone to create an image from a blank canvas, while a photo program assumes you already have an existing image.

Yes, there's a lot of overlap, and the two classes of programs seem to be converging, but I still think the distinction is useful.

This leads me to my second point. I have used several paint and imaging programs, and Photoshop seems by far the most difficult.

For example, I was trying to add a hollow ellipse to a photo using Photoshop 5, and I really couldn't figure out how to do that. There was no "ellipse tool". I could change the selection tool to an elliptical selection tool, select an elliptical area and fill it with color, then select another elliptical area and fill it with the background color, but that's not really the same thing.

I moved to Microsoft Paint (!) and did it very easily (although setting the thickness of the ellipse was more complicated than it should have been).

As I said, I'm not a Photoshop expert, but I have lots of experience using imaging programs, and I couldn't open Photoshop and do that simple task in 10 minutes.

Maybe Photoshop 7 improves this -- I know that "The Screen Savers" always has Bert Monroy doing impressive drawings from scratch with it -- but I don't have that.

As for 3D Max or Maya, I can't help but laugh. First, three-dimensional modelling animation is not easy, period. Second, how many people do you think want to do that? Many people take photos and would like to touch them up. Finally, how many people that aren't seriously into 3-D work can afford those programs? (Of course, Photoshop's price puts it in the same category, I think.)

Steve