News Update on the Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket Loox T800 series

[Nurhisham Hussein]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.firstloox.org/index.php?categoryid=1&p2_articleid=340' target='_blank'>http://www.firstloox.org/index.php?...2_articleid=340</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Back on 24 June we posted that the FCC had approved the release of the upcoming Pocket Loox T800 series. However - back at the start of September the FCC added to the filed documents listed on their site. This time they included a manual. The reason for the newer filing seems to be that the T800 series was resubmitted for testing after being 'fixed' so that WiFi and the GSM/GPRS radio can be used simultaneously - this follows an earlier attestation that the radios would not work at the same time. Following on from this the original filing has also been updated and now includes a wealth of documents including: the manual, external photos (including the bundled headset and external GPS aerial along with a short USB host adaptor cable) and internal photos."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/hisham-20060920-t800fcc.jpg" /><br /><br />Along with the new FCC documentation, the T800 series has also been Bluetooth qualified. All I can say is - YUMMY! If there was a converged device I would plop my hard earned cash for, it's the T830. The Hermes may be the <i>creme de la creme</i> of the current crop of QVGA devices, but the T830 is/will be the leader for square-screen devices. The specs are to die for:<br /><br />•Intel 416MHz processor<br />•2.4in 240x240 screen<br />•802.11g wifi (!!!)<br />•Bluetooth 2.0, Class 2 (with Broadcomm stack!!!)<br />•GPS (SirfStarIII!!!) with ability to add an external antenna<br />•USB Host<br />•3G/UMTS (HSDPA tbc)<br />•64MB RAM, 128MB ROM<br />•SDIO slot (!!!)<br />•2MP camera with autofocus (!!!) + video call camera (T830 only)<br />•1500mAH battery (!!!)<br /><br />Can you tell I'm excited? About the only problem with these devices are how hard they are/will be to get outside Europe. You can get the lowdown on the FCC documentation <a href="http://www.firstloox.org/index.php?categoryid=1&p2_articleid=340">here</a>, and the Bluetooth qualification news <a href="http://www.firstloox.org/index.php?categoryid=1&p2_articleid=339">here</a>.

[WyattEarp]

Finally a device with SD and not this mini and micr stuff. Some finally realized that SD can still fit. I'd get this over the Treo 7xx or HP 6915 just for the SD slot.
That BT 2.0 and included GPS is like icing on the cake. Sweet device there.

Now only if someone could squeeze in 480x480 I too might fall out my seat with exictiment. :D

[ctmagnus]

I just glanced through the link, but will it be quadband? If so, :clap:

[RogueSpear]

This looks good enough to where I may even forgive the lack of VGA. Now all I'll need to do is find a way to get one here in the states.

[nosmohtac]

I agree this will be at the top of the heap of PPCPE devices, but I only hope that it comes out as quadband. Everything I've read so far indicates that it will only be tri-band.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

This looks good enough to where I may even forgive the lack of VGA. Now all I'll need to do is find a way to get one here in the states.

You can preorder from the Clove (http://www.clove.co.uk/viewProduct.aspx?Product=90E0C677-07AA-4F15-A5F0-287FC47190A3&Category=AA8618D9-A7F2-4178-B02C-DA2BE7D96C3B). The price is still tentative, but Clove are confident it'll hold up. First units are expected to be shipped in October. I bought my Loox 720 from them - 1st class service!

[debbi8]

Uh-oh, I feel another attack of gottahaveitis coming on! This may finally replace my FS720 in a way my Q9100 just can't - I still use the 720 for work and play; the 9100 is only for unwi-fed communcation and navigation. Is this finally -dare I say it - the :ppclove: true convergence device I've been waiting for?

[JesterMania]

Wow...SD slot and USB host. Other manufacturers should really learn from these guys.

[ricksfiona]

Looking at it's dimensions... You should be able to use it for self-defense too!

[spacehog]

If you can remember the Benq P50, this thing is about 1.3x the volume of that brick. Word is from some early testers that the QC behind the device is exceptionally good. Excellent WiFi reception, not a single dropped call, crystal clear voice, great battery life... Pretty much all the essential functions are bullet-proof on this thing.

So it comes down to functionality over aesthetics. Up to you to decide what's more important..

[alese]

The specs on this thing look really nice, if you are willing to live with 240x240 screen and the size.

I'm hoping to get this thing for a test, but I'm not sure when. If/when I do I'll see if my main concern, the square 240x240 screen is livable.

[denethor]

The specs on this thing look really nice, if you are willing to live with 240x240 screen and the size..

After using VGA Loox 720, the only spec I' m looking for PDA is screen res. There is no turning back after 640x480. So, cool device but not for me :cry:

[Duncan]

I'll be posting my (very very delayed) T830 review later today.

Some points of significance however:

I'm a die hard VGA screenn supporter - and yet the T830 surprised me by how good it was even with a 240 x screen.

The size is not really an issue - it's deceptive. Though bigger than a conventional phone - it is the same basic candy bar shape. The Treo 700w by contrast feels too wide to be comfortable.

The T830 has not just an SD slot but it is actually an SDHC slot. 8GB SD cards here we come.

The battery life and sound/phone quality are superb. I tested it with every single form of wireless running and full birghtness screen and MP3s running full blast and GPS active - and it lasted better than many PPCs do under standard tests - 3 hrs 22 minutes. Screen off and MP3s only - thing lasts damn near a full day...[/list]

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I'll be posting my (very very delayed) T830 review later today.

I'll watch for it.


The T830 has not just an SD slot but it is actually an SDHC slot. 8GB SD cards here we come.

Oh my 8O Wouldn't that be a Windows Mobile first?

[baralong]

Doesn't WM5 support 320x320?

I don't mind a square screen, but can't we have a net increase in pixels from QVGA. That said I still want one, at least to try. I love my k-jam's keyboard but I'd be happy to give another form factor a go.

[Duncan]

The T830 has not just an SD slot but it is actually an SDHC slot. 8GB SD cards here we come.

Oh my 8O Wouldn't that be a Windows Mobile first?

I have a feeling I saw report of another PPC with SDHC on PPCT a while back. May just have imagined it though...!

[Duncan]

Doesn't WM5 support 320x320?

I don't mind a square screen, but can't we have a net increase in pixels from QVGA. That said I still want one, at least to try. I love my k-jam's keyboard but I'd be happy to give another form factor a go.

WM 5 can't do 320 x 320 - only 240 x 240, 480 x 480, QVGA and VGA.

The reasons why we are getting 240 x 240 rather than 480 x 480 are:

1) Cheaper to make the screens - phone devices are expensive to make.

2) 240 x 240 means only 25% of the pixels to drive than would be found in a 480 x 480 device - thus better battery life.

3) Fewer pixels to push around means that the T830 is noticeably faster in use than the VGA Loox N560 - despite the much slower processor (416Mhz vs. 624Mhz).

4) Though you can fit more onto a 480 x 480 screen - you need a screen big enough to make that practical (or carry a magnifying lens with you...!). It would, therefore, be slightly pointless to have a 480x screen on small screened devices like the T830, Treo 700w and iPAQ 69xx. Sure it would look a bit prettier - but these are phones and unnecessary drains on battery life and processor resources need to be show the door.

It's odd - I really expected to hate a 240x screen - being a confirmed VGA fan - but somehow it won me over...

[alese]

I'll be posting my (very very delayed) T830 review later today.

Some points of significance however:

...
The size is not really an issue - it's deceptive. Though bigger than a conventional phone - it is the same basic candy bar shape. The Treo 700w by contrast feels too wide to be comfortable.

...[/list]

I was using HTC Himalaya for 18 months as my phone/PDA and while I could live with it, it was clumsy to carry everywhere.
Now I'm using the Wizard which is much smaller (although thicker) and it feels just right, so I'm not sure if I could go back to using something bigger.

Nice to know it has SDHC and good battery life. Also what I really like is the fact that it has USB host...

In any case, I'm looking forward to your review.

[heavyduty]

Having just bought the hw6915 I don't have any issues at all with the square screen, but then again I previously had the Treo 650 so I'm used to the them.

My only complaint would be that the on-screen softkey buttons take up too much space, they could be smaller and thus leave more space for the apps. This of course is less of a problem for the QVGA screens.

[baralong]

WM 5 can't do 320 x 320 - only 240 x 240, 480 x 480, QVGA and VGA.
Thanks for the clarification, make sense, doubling 240

The reasons why we are getting 240 x 240 rather than 480 x 480 are:

1) Cheaper to make the screens - phone devices are expensive to make.

2) 240 x 240 means only 25% of the pixels to drive than would be found in a 480 x 480 device - thus better battery life.

3) Fewer pixels to push around means that the T830 is noticeably faster in use than the VGA Loox N560 - despite the much slower processor (416Mhz vs. 624Mhz).

4) Though you can fit more onto a 480 x 480 screen - you need a screen big enough to make that practical (or carry a magnifying lens with you...!). It would, therefore, be slightly pointless to have a 480x screen on small screened devices like the T830, Treo 700w and iPAQ 69xx. Sure it would look a bit prettier - but these are phones and unnecessary drains on battery life and processor resources need to be show the door.

It's odd - I really expected to hate a 240x screen - being a confirmed VGA fan - but somehow it won me over...
I'm looking forward to your review.

I see what you mean. The higher resolution is not for more data,but raher for better clarity. You can get that with a smaller screen and the same resolution, I compare the QVGA on my iPAQ 4150, k-jam and smartflip, the later has the sharpest picture by far, and although it's smaller I prefer the k-jam's to the 4150's

[alese]

...
I see what you mean. The higher resolution is not for more data,but raher for better clarity. You can get that with a smaller screen and the same resolution, I compare the QVGA on my iPAQ 4150, k-jam and smartflip, the later has the sharpest picture by far, and although it's smaller I prefer the k-jam's to the 4150's
...


Well higher resolution is not only for better clarity (like nicer icons, sharper text and prettier pictures/videos). Depending on the size of the screen you can see quite a lot more on VGA than qVGA even if you don't use TrueVGA.
For instance, I can see web pages much better (layout is almost as it would be on desktop) in VGA, you can see more cells in Excel, more text in Word...

[cgavula]

The posted user manual says it's only tri-band (no 850 band) so it definitely ISN'T at the top of the heap for me. That will also likely make it a no-go for most U.S. Cingular users, but then again, as has already been mentioned, it will probably be difficult to get in the U.S. anyway.

If we're lucky, the manual might be wrong and the specs might have changed to include the 850 band in which case it would be high in my consideration.

--Chris

[sooby77]

For those of you who are curious about the GPS, gpspassion tested the device a while back...

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=60925

[mmidgley]

Why did they obtain FCC approval if it will only be sold in Europe?

I really hope it has a quad radio that can revert to EDGE data when UMTS or HSDPA isn't available.

Form factor questions aside, it seems to have it all.

m.

[Duncan]

Why did they obtain FCC approval if it will only be sold in Europe?

It is normal for companies to seek FCC approval for their devices so they are legal for use in the US. Every Pocket Loox, for example, has had FCC approval but none have been officially sold in the US.

Generally this would seem to be a demarcation issue - Fujitsu-Siemens generally market in the EMEA (Europe, Middle East and Africa) region while Fujitsu focus on the Americas and Asia-Pacifc.

A while back I asked Fujitsu directly why they didn't licence and market the Pocket Loox range - or do their own. The answer was simply that HP and Dell had the Pocket PC market sewn up and that Americans just weren't interested enough in smartphones to make phone edition PPCs worth pursuing.

I really hope it has a quad radio that can revert to EDGE data when UMTS or HSDPA isn't available.

No EDGE (I'm not sure I can recall any device with both UMTS and EDGE) and no quad band either - just 3G and standard GPRS.

[goodghost]

I'll be posting my (very very delayed) T830 review later today.



Where did you publish your review?

[Duncan]

I'll be posting my (very very delayed) T830 review later today.



Where did you publish your review?

It's not quite up yet - but it will be at FirstLoox.

[goodghost]

I'll be posting my (very very delayed) T830 review later today.



Where did you publish your review?

It's not quite up yet - but it will be at FirstLoox.

OK, we shall wait till it is there.... When will it be there? :wink:

[emy_77]

Can you tell I'm excited?

Hi Hisham!

I'm from Malaysia too. I'm a Treo 600 user, but I'm looking for its replacement (3 years old already), and since Palm hasn't come out with a worthy replacement, I've been looking around, and I, too, think that FS PL T830 seems like the best out there.

Just wanna ask on the GPS. Since you are from Malaysia too, may I know is there a good map for Malaysia out there to be used with the built-in GPS? There are many for US, Europe etc, but I'm not too sure about Malaysia. Appreciate your response

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Just wanna ask on the GPS. Since you are from Malaysia too, may I know is there a good map for Malaysia out there to be used with the built-in GPS? There are many for US, Europe etc, but I'm not too sure about Malaysia. Appreciate your response

Just refer to Malsingmaps.com (http://www.malsingmaps.com/forum/index.php). You'll need to register, but full instructions on how to obtain and use the maps are available there. It's also free :D

[carz]

I am from Malaysia. Just something interesting the Palm Treo 750V that runs on Windows Mobile 5.0
http://www.palm.com/sg/products/smartphones/treo750v/specs.html

Interestingly it supports more UTMS bands, viz 850/1900/2100. (The T830 only has UTMS 2100) See below:-

GSM bands: 850/900/1800/1900 with GPRS and EDGE
UMTS bands: 850/1900/2100

Can someone tell me what this would mean for me since I am not familiar with 3G frequencies and which country supports which freq.

Lets discuss the pros and cons of the product here.

The difference on first look:-
1) No GPS though, but I suppose you can hook a bluetooth GPS to it.
2) miniSD card slot instead
3) No Wifi

Local support for those of us in Malaysia and Singapore

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Can someone tell me what this would mean for me since I am not familiar with 3G frequencies and which country supports which freq.


Malaysia is currently UMTS 2100MHz only, so no real advantage either way. It's possible that with HSDPA being rolled out, these extra bands might come into play.


1) No GPS though, but I suppose you can hook a bluetooth GPS to it.


Certainly - but you miss the convenience of having it on one device, which is the whole point of getting a converged device in the first place (not to mention a SirfStar III bluetooth unit would set you back another US$80+ or so).


2) miniSD card slot instead


If you've invested in SD cards previously, this is a big consideration. If you're new to this, then it probably doesn't matter. Still, bear in mind that the T830 will support SDHC cards, which will go up to 32 GB.


3) No Wifi


This is a biggie - Palm's decision on this is to me incomprehensible.


Local support for those of us in Malaysia and Singapore

One for Palm.

I'd also like to point out a few other things:

1. The T830 will carry a 2.0MP camera with autofocus, which changes the camera from a toy to something that could actually be useful.

2. USB host is nothing to sneeze at either - have a look at my article (http://www.mypdacafe.com/articles.php?id=219) describing what you can do with it.

3. The 750v has no video call support.

4. The T830 will have Bluetooth v2, which is about 3 times faster than the v1.2 used in the Palm.

Pricing for both units will be approximately the same. Last consideration - the Palm is available now in Singapore, and should be in Malaysia in short order. The Loox is likely to be delayed (again :roll:) - last I heard we're could be looking at January 2007.

[carz]

Wonder what is pushing the Loox T830 that far back till Jan 2007 ?
I have sent a PM to you - did you receive it ?

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I have sent a PM to you - did you receive it ?

Yes, I have - reply on the way.