Windows Mobile 5.0 ROM Update for the HP iPAQ hx4700

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/HandheldiPAQ/us/download/23729.html' target='_blank'>http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/f...load/23729.html</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20060730-HP.gif" /><br /><br />HP has just released a <a href="http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/HandheldiPAQ/us/download/23729.html">ROM update</a> for iPAQ hx4700 devices running Windows Mobile 5.0. According to the release history, it fixes a card response issue, and also improves overall system performance. Could this be what the doctor ordered? And if so, Dell, where in the world is the update for the X50/X50v?

[Menneisyys]

It seems it’s indeed worth upgrading. The upgrade went smooth on all devices so far (unlike with, say, the A12 ROM upgrade on the Dell Axim x51v for many (http://www.aximsite.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=109)) and the entire device has become much speedier than before - even without hacks.

I’m testing the upgrade with my standard DockWare test to find out how filesys.exe behaves and to have some real, objective test results to present.

The problems / unresolved stuff I’ve come across so far:


It still has incompatibility issues with a lot of games (I’ve tested Realms (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1073&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) and DragonBall (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1074&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) - the recently tested titles that didn't work. DragonBall, unlike with the previous WM5 version, has even crashed the entire device after crashing. In this respect, the upgrade may be even more incompatible than the previous one). This is strictly an hx4700 issue – these games run on my other WM5 (and/or VGA) devices just fine.

Services.exe still consumes CPU: 1.2% by default, 0.8% with empty \Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Games, between 6.3 and 7.8% after copying every single factory-defult .lnk file from \Windows\Start Menu\Programs\ to \Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Games.

Note that these figures are much better than with the original WM5 upgrade where, by default, the CPU usage of Services.exe was around 5% by default, 1% with a completely clean \Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Games and 15-20% with all the default links copied to the Games subdirectory.

This means the Navi service must be disabled by hand in the new version too in the way I've explained in my previous tutorials.


I'll keep you posted on further results / remarks. You don't need to wait for them to upgrade, however - it seems it's really worth upgrading. Also, again, make sure you check out the MobilitySite forum comments here (http://www.mobilitysite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30686).

[KTamas]

HP is actually posted an upgrade of a upgrade.

Hell. Frozen. Over.

(See that, Dell? Yes, You, with the x50v upgrade...)

:wink:

[juni]

Just installed it and it indeed went smooth :). Menneisyys: You could post a link to your tutorial so I won't have to do a search (yes, I am lazy). ;)

[dringo]

Before upgrading you might want to read Biting the Handango that Feeds It: Are You Getting Your Money's Worth? (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,50216)
If like me you buy 90% of your Software from Handango and need to redownload lost files, this could prove to be one expensive upgrade what with their download "protection" farse.
The upgrade did go well and its very,very quick.

[juni]

I threw WA2, PB etc. etc. at it and it really is a lot faster :). WA2 loads in one second compared to 30 seconds before the upgrade. :)

[Menneisyys]

If you still haven't upgraded your hx4700 to the brand new, 2.0.1 WM5 version but you're still using the old, 2.0 one, could you please mail me / upload the \Program Files\Dockware\DockWare.exe present on the original, 2.0 WM5 HP iPAQ hx4700 version?

(If you mail it, rename it to, say, TXT or JPG before attaching it to your mail so that it gets through more reliably. My address is info removethis AT removethis winmobiletech.com.)

The new, 2.0.1 WM5 upgrade contains the latest, 2.0.2.1026 version, which can no longer be used for filesys.exe benchmarking (I've only noticed this after running the benchmark for 5 hours and without filesys.exe ever kicking in; unfortunately, I’ve forgotten to back up the old version, don't have the time to downgrade back to the old version and the old version isn't available anywhere any more) because it no longer creates temp files in the built-in storage memory (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=893&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1).

Again, I only need the single \Program Files\Dockware\DockWare.exe file from the old WM5 version.

UPDATE (19:49 CET): thanks to Pocket PC Thoughts forum member "buckyg", I've received the old DockWare version in the meantime. That is, I do NOT need the file any more.

I've just started my all-night-long first test phase with near-empty storage &amp; heavy deletions &amp; writes so that the results are comparable to those of the previous version I've published earlier (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=929&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1). Tomorrow, I'll go on with tests that simulate a hx4700 with full storage to see whether you may use the built-in storage to store files. Stay tuned! :)

[ethancaine]

Could this be what the doctor ordered? And if so, Dell, where in the world is the update for the X50/X50v?

I'll tell you where... it's on eBay!

Oh, wait, no, that's where my x50v is after I got frustrated enough to sell the damned thing...

[Menneisyys]

Just installed it and it indeed went smooth :). Menneisyys: You could post a link to your tutorial so I won't have to do a search (yes, I am lazy). ;)

Delete HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ Services\ NavPointService entirely. (See http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=830&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1 ).

[juni]

Thanks :)

[DaleReeck]

If like me you buy 90% of your Software from Handango and need to redownload lost files, this could prove to be one expensive upgrade what with their download "protection" farse.


Actually, I never understood the redownloading files thing and losing files. I know a lot of people install the app and serial, and then just lose track of them - as if they are never going to have to rebuild their PPC again. I keep a copy (and a backup) of all software and serials that I buy. And when there's a new version to download, I update the repository (and usually keep the previous version too just in case). I down't understand why more people don't do this. Extra hard drives are cheap :)

Over the years, my repository of Palm, PocketPC, SmartPhone, Blackberry (yep, I owned them all at one point) and PC software that I copy from the DVD for easy install over the network stands at about 30GB. Maybe its time to delete some of that black and white Palm software from 1998 that I'm never going to use again :D

[Muntasser]

lol@X50 rom update.

[bvkeen]

I never even attempted the first WM5 ROM, but am downloading the current one now. Is there no charge for this? Dell charged for its WM5 upgrade, so I am surprised if there is no charge, yet I am downloading it without being asked by the HP server to pay up. Will this only install over a previous WM5 upgrade?

Thanks.

[Marcel_Proust]

Just installed and all seemed to go well.
The tweaks2k2 changes I've applied also seem to work, although maybe not as necessary now?
I think my 4700 is more responsive right now.
I am surprised and thankful HP has provided this. Now if someone could only bring out a decent vga with phone device, until then I have no upgrade path.

[Menneisyys]

The tweaks2k2 changes I've applied also seem to work, although maybe not as necessary now?


The Navi regkey deletion is still recommended, albeit not as important as was in the prev version.

[rlucky]

So do I need to upgrade back to the old WM5 upgrade then this new one or can I just upgrade from my downgraded WM2003SE device straight to this new ROM? It would be nice to save a step...

[Menneisyys]

So do I need to upgrade back to the old WM5 upgrade then this new one or can I just upgrade from my downgraded WM2003SE device straight to this new ROM? It would be nice to save a step...

You need the official WM5 upgrade to be installed in order to upgrade.

(I hope HP will also release this version as a self-standing upgrade for wm2003se devices - of course, for money - so that noone ends up having to upgrade to 2.0 first, and, only after that, to 2.01.)

[SHC]

I would really like to give this another go. I've used a JamIn for a while and quite liked WM5 but went back to the 4700 as I didnt like the device itself. However, when I upgraded my 4700 last time to WM5 it changed the device ID for my Skyscape products and had to persuade Skyscape to let me go back when I downgraded back to 2003SE. I don't know if they will do it again? I've asked them and will wait and see what they say.

[Menneisyys]

I would really like to give this another go. I've used a JamIn for a while and quite liked WM5 but went back to the 4700 as I didnt like the device itself. However, when I upgraded my 4700 last time to WM5 it changed the device ID for my Skyscape products and had to persuade Skyscape to let me go back when I downgraded back to 2003SE. I don't know if they will do it again? I've asked them and will wait and see what they say.

I'll publish the test results tomorrow (I need some 10-12 hours to get a really reliable picture of how it compares to the previous version).

[buzzard]

One of the reasons I got rid of the first WM5 was because there was a limit placed on the space size on Outlook Task Notes page (I believe the Contacts Notes page was also affected). I cannot remember the limit in the registry but after the limit was reached it would truncate the remaining words. This occurred in the initial sync with my PC and I didn't realize it because it only affected a few tasks. The problem was compounded on the next sync because those truncated tasks on my 4700 were copied over to my PC which resulted in a total loss of information.

There was no limit to these Notes pages in PPC2002 or 2003SE. My question is does this new WM5 update fix this problem ?

[David_C]

There is definatly an increase in speed with the updated version.

So far, AvantGo is looking good, Pocket Informant, Sudoku, Pocket Breeze, Pocket Weather, Flex Wallet all seem to be working fine from my CF card.


Dave C

[bvkeen]

So do I need to upgrade back to the old WM5 upgrade then this new one or can I just upgrade from my downgraded WM2003SE device straight to this new ROM? It would be nice to save a step...

You need the official WM5 upgrade to be installed in order to upgrade.

(I hope HP will also release this version as a self-standing upgrade for wm2003se devices - of course, for money - so that noone ends up having to upgrade to 2.0 first, and, only after that, to 2.01.)

Well, this answered my question, too, so I bought the intial upgrade, installed it, then installed this update ROM, and it seems to work very well indeed. Almost seems faster than it did with WM2003SE, although I still have a lot of software to load.

[Menneisyys]

So do I need to upgrade back to the old WM5 upgrade then this new one or can I just upgrade from my downgraded WM2003SE device straight to this new ROM? It would be nice to save a step...

You need the official WM5 upgrade to be installed in order to upgrade.

(I hope HP will also release this version as a self-standing upgrade for wm2003se devices - of course, for money - so that noone ends up having to upgrade to 2.0 first, and, only after that, to 2.01.)

Well, this answered my question, too, so I bought the intial upgrade, installed it, then installed this update ROM, and it seems to work very well indeed. Almost seems faster than it did with WM2003SE, although I still have a lot of software to load.

Please wait with installing software to the main memory till I publish my results (in about 12-14 hours). The premilinary CockWare stresstest results do show significant filesys load decrease - but they're still present. I yet have to check what effects tens of megabytes of files in the main storage have - will be the first thing tomorrrow when I get back to work (left the hx4700 there so that it can run my tests the entire night).

[bvkeen]

Almost seems faster than it did with WM2003SE, although I still have a lot of software to load.
...
Please wait with installing software to the main memory till I publish my results (in about 12-14 hours). ...

Thanks! I'll hold off. Thank you for all the testing and tips.

[Marcel_Proust]

I would really like to give this another go. I've used a JamIn for a while and quite liked WM5 but went back to the 4700 as I didnt like the device itself. However, when I upgraded my 4700 last time to WM5 it changed the device ID for my Skyscape products and had to persuade Skyscape to let me go back when I downgraded back to 2003SE. I don't know if they will do it again? I've asked them and will wait and see what they say.

i have about $500 dollars of skyscape references on mine, and have switched machines with not too much problems in the past, they have a procedure. What did they say to you? It should not be a problem as you own the copyright to the reference as long as it's used on only one machine.

[Marcel_Proust]

There is definatly an increase in speed with the updated version.

So far, AvantGo is looking good, Pocket Informant, Sudoku, Pocket Breeze, Pocket Weather, Flex Wallet all seem to be working fine from my CF card.


Dave C

How did you get PI to work from the storage card? That's one program that I'd like to move the dll it installs in /windows - but never seems to work on the hx4700 I think because of the preinstalled PI.

[Marcel_Proust]

Almost seems faster than it did with WM2003SE, although I still have a lot of software to load.
...
Please wait with installing software to the main memory till I publish my results (in about 12-14 hours). ...

Thanks! I'll hold off. Thank you for all the testing and tips.

This being Sunday I just couldn't wait. After reinstalling everything and applying all the same tweaks I would say it's faster. I think that the new wm5 running at 400 mhz is about like the old one running at 624. And at 624, the new one is very peppy. That could just be my wishful thinking, so it'll be interesting what the official tests say.

[Marcel_Proust]

One of the reasons I got rid of the first WM5 was because there was a limit placed on the space size on Outlook Task Notes page (I believe the Contacts Notes page was also affected). I cannot remember the limit in the registry but after the limit was reached it would truncate the remaining words. This occurred in the initial sync with my PC and I didn't realize it because it only affected a few tasks. The problem was compounded on the next sync because those truncated tasks on my 4700 were copied over to my PC which resulted in a total loss of information.

There was no limit to these Notes pages in PPC2002 or 2003SE. My question is does this new WM5 update fix this problem ?

I'm not sure about that. However, I would avoid putting huge notes in the PIMs themselves. These will be stored on the internal databases and affect performance on the 4700 as it's not well built for wm5. You could look for a solution that can use an external storage card, and that link to your contacts or tasks if that's what you are looking for.
I could be wrong on this.

[juni]

I installed PocketWeather, Opera, PocketBreeze, iLauncher, WisbarAdvance2 and Microsoft Reader to main memory and so far it seems smooth and fast. (If it has all that memory it seems like a waste not to use it :P).

But we´ll see what Menneisyys "CockWare" test will say (typo?). :D

[Menneisyys]

As I’ve been promising here, over at MobilitySite (http://www.mobilitysite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30686) and in my Smartphone &amp; Pocket PC Magazine's Expert Blog (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3), I’ve made some extensive benchmarks on the new, 2.0.1 WM5 upgrade of the HP iPAQ hx4700. The first results are here; more to come.

DockWare heavy writing / deletion test, almost clean storage

(Please read this essential article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=929&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) to see how I’ve measured all this and how the chart should be interpreted!)

Almost entirely clean inner memory (about 2.5 Mbytes of user files – including the default DockWare pictures in \My Documents and the two executables \Program Files\ DockWare\ DockWare.exe and \Program Files \ WebIS\ PocketInformant\ PocketInformant.exe, which are all in user storage and can be deleted; Resco File and Registry Explorer/Editor installed into a storage card and Pocket Controller Professional 5.06 build 866 installed into the main storage) case with the DockWare (active writing and deletion) test, the new, 2.0.1 ROM version, the first 3.2 hours:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/072006WM5201hx4700/HX4700201-first35hours.png

The next 6 hours:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/072006WM5201hx4700/HX4700201-end.png

As can be seen, filesys.exe kicks in about every 85 minutes. Compared to the case of the old, 2.0 case, where it kicked in every about 50 minutes as can be seen in here:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006WM5hx4700BigArticle/CleanMemDockware.png

this is a definite improvement.

Note, however, that the filesys.exe session length remained the same as in the previous ROM version – it hasn’t decreased. That is, if it kicks in, it'll spend the same time on housekeeping tasks than in the previous WM5 version.

All in all, however much the filesys.exe kick-in frequency has been decreased by some 60%, you should refrain from continuously writing / deleting from the main memory because it will result in some lengthy filesys.exe sessions.

I will publish the results of my objective, comparable mass writing + half-full (as opposed to the subject of this post - that is, almost completely clean device) storage memory case later today (in about 5-6 hours) to see whether letting the system store (largely static, untouched - that is, read-only) files in the main storage has the same detrimental effect on the overall system performance (more frequent and much more lengthier filesys.exe sessions than in the clean case) as was the case with the previous WM5 version. Stay tuned :)

[Menneisyys]

I installed PocketWeather, Opera, PocketBreeze, iLauncher, WisbarAdvance2 and Microsoft Reader to main memory and so far it seems smooth and fast. (If it has all that memory it seems like a waste not to use it :P).

But we´ll see what Menneisyys "CockWare" test will say (typo?). :D

Yup, typoz suck :)

[Menneisyys]

Here's a continuation of my earlier test results published earlier today (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1088&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) showing how the new, 2.0.1 HP iPAQ hx4700 WM5 upgrade behaves when the storage memory is actively and continuously written to. In the previous test, I've tested how an upgraded device with a clean main storage memory behaves; in the current one, I test how it behaves when the main storage memory is about 50% full.

A long story cut short: you should avoid filling in the main storage memory of the device, just like with the previous WM5 version.

More verbosely, the benchmark / test results:



When the storage memory is about 50% full (35 Mbytes free), the DockWare stress-test resulted in the following CPU utilization (again, check this article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=929&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) on how this should be interpreted):

http://www.winmobiletech.com/072006WM5201hx4700/hx4700WM520135MFree-DockWare.png

Here are the results of the same test with the old, 2.0 WM5 version:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006WM5hx4700BigArticle/DockWare60AndThen35MFreeStorage.png

That is, the new, 2.0.1 situation is only slightly better than the 2.0 case, where filesys.exe ran about 40-45% of the time in this practical usage test. Now, it’s about 30% of the time that filesys.exe runs.

Note that both shots show the case of running the test with a clean device and, then, quickly moving about 45 Mbytes of MP3 files to the main storage (this is why there's a visible slope at about 2:40 in the 2.0.1 and about 2:00 in the 2.0 case). That is, the shots clearly show the difference between the 'clean' and the 'half-full' case: before the slope, they show the clean and after it, the "polluted" case.

Again and again:

do not store anything in the main memory
2. relocate the cache of whatever Web browser you use (read / search my blog for tutorials on this - I've published many articles on this subject on all the available Web browsers)
relocate the AtiveSync-synchronized Outlook mails (again, read my blog for the tutorial)
if you access your mail via POP3/IMAP, use for example Qmail instead of Messaging because it’s able to store your mail on storage cards
always clean up the storage and delete everything superfluous from there
only install apps into the main memory that absolutely require to be there or can’t be installed to anywhere else (for example, the ThinkOutside driver, Pocket Controller, most Today plug-ins)
etc. (read my old, hx4700 WM5, cleanup- and relocation-related articles!)

[buzzard]

I'm not sure about that. However, I would avoid putting huge notes in the PIMs themselves. These will be stored on the internal databases and affect performance on the 4700 as it's not well built for wm5. You could look for a solution that can use an external storage card, and that link to your contacts or tasks if that's what you are looking for.
I could be wrong on this.

Where can you see the size of the Tasks database ?

[Marcel_Proust]

Here's a continuation of my earlier test results published earlier today (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1088&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) showing how the new, 2.0.1 HP iPAQ hx4700 WM5 upgrade behaves when the storage memory is actively and continuously written to. In the previous test, I've tested how an upgraded device with a clean main storage memory behaves; in the current one, I test how it behaves when the main storage memory is about 50% full.

A long story cut short: you should avoid filling in the main storage memory of the device, just like with the previous WM5 version.

More verbosely, the benchmark / test results:



When the storage memory is about 50% full (35 Mbytes free), the DockWare stress-test resulted in the following CPU utilization (again, check this article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=929&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) on how this should be interpreted):

http://www.winmobiletech.com/072006WM5201hx4700/hx4700WM520135MFree-DockWare.png

Here are the results of the same test with the old, 2.0 WM5 version:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006WM5hx4700BigArticle/DockWare60AndThen35MFreeStorage.png

That is, the new, 2.0.1 situation is only slightly better than the 2.0 case, where filesys.exe ran about 40-45% of the time in this practical usage test. Now, it’s about 30% of the time that filesys.exe runs.

Note that both shots show the case of running the test with a clean device and, then, quickly moving about 45 Mbytes of MP3 files to the main storage (this is why there's a visible slope at about 2:40 in the 2.0.1 and about 2:00 in the 2.0 case). That is, the shots clearly show the difference between the 'clean' and the 'half-full' case: before the slope, they show the clean and after it, the "polluted" case.

Again and again:

do not store anything in the main memory
2. relocate the cache of whatever Web browser you use (read / search my blog for tutorials on this - I've published many articles on this subject on all the available Web browsers)
relocate the AtiveSync-synchronized Outlook mails (again, read my blog for the tutorial)
if you access your mail via POP3/IMAP, use for example Qmail instead of Messaging because it’s able to store your mail on storage cards
always clean up the storage and delete everything superfluous from there
only install apps into the main memory that absolutely require to be there or can’t be installed to anywhere else (for example, the ThinkOutside driver, Pocket Controller, most Today plug-ins)
etc. (read my old, hx4700 WM5, cleanup- and relocation-related articles!)


Thank you for all the testing!
I have found that wm5 works well with the ThinkOutside keyboard without any drivers, although you do lose some functionality.
Do you know any way to move new installed version of PocketInformant to the storage cards? (I mean moving its dll's with a program like memaid.) It doesn't seem to work and those dlls are huge. i've the tried the new PI 2007 beta, which looks very promising with it's Franklin Covey integration and no luck.

[Marcel_Proust]

Where can you see the size of the Tasks database ?

you can use a program like memaid or sktools.

[Menneisyys]

Here's a continuation of my earlier test results published earlier today (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1088&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) showing how the new, 2.0.1 HP iPAQ hx4700 WM5 upgrade behaves when the storage memory is actively and continuously written to. In the previous test, I've tested how an upgraded device with a clean main storage memory behaves; in the current one, I test how it behaves when the main storage memory is about 50% full.

A long story cut short: you should avoid filling in the main storage memory of the device, just like with the previous WM5 version.

More verbosely, the benchmark / test results:



When the storage memory is about 50% full (35 Mbytes free), the DockWare stress-test resulted in the following CPU utilization (again, check this article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=929&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) on how this should be interpreted):

http://www.winmobiletech.com/072006WM5201hx4700/hx4700WM520135MFree-DockWare.png

Here are the results of the same test with the old, 2.0 WM5 version:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/062006WM5hx4700BigArticle/DockWare60AndThen35MFreeStorage.png

That is, the new, 2.0.1 situation is only slightly better than the 2.0 case, where filesys.exe ran about 40-45% of the time in this practical usage test. Now, it’s about 30% of the time that filesys.exe runs.

Note that both shots show the case of running the test with a clean device and, then, quickly moving about 45 Mbytes of MP3 files to the main storage (this is why there's a visible slope at about 2:40 in the 2.0.1 and about 2:00 in the 2.0 case). That is, the shots clearly show the difference between the 'clean' and the 'half-full' case: before the slope, they show the clean and after it, the "polluted" case.

Again and again:

do not store anything in the main memory
2. relocate the cache of whatever Web browser you use (read / search my blog for tutorials on this - I've published many articles on this subject on all the available Web browsers)
relocate the AtiveSync-synchronized Outlook mails (again, read my blog for the tutorial)
if you access your mail via POP3/IMAP, use for example Qmail instead of Messaging because it’s able to store your mail on storage cards
always clean up the storage and delete everything superfluous from there
only install apps into the main memory that absolutely require to be there or can’t be installed to anywhere else (for example, the ThinkOutside driver, Pocket Controller, most Today plug-ins)
etc. (read my old, hx4700 WM5, cleanup- and relocation-related articles!)


Thank you for all the testing!
I have found that wm5 works well with the ThinkOutside keyboard without any drivers, although you do lose some functionality.
Do you know any way to move new installed version of PocketInformant to the storage cards? (I mean moving its dll's with a program like memaid.) It doesn't seem to work and those dlls are huge. i've the tried the new PI 2007 beta, which looks very promising with it's Franklin Covey integration and no luck.

I haven;t tried relocating the DLL's; the main 570 kbyte EXE file in \Program Files can be relocated, I think.

[badbob001]

Menneisyys,

Did they change the cluster size for this new rom?

Thanks.

[buzzard]

Where can you see the size of the Tasks database ?

you can use a program like memaid or sktools.

Thank you, I found it in SK Tools. It's smaller than I thought (0.7mg) at least compared to Netfront or some other large program. :D

[Menneisyys]

THE RAM DISK IS HERE - Make sure you read http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=411518 !!!!

[David_C]

Dave C

How did you get PI to work from the storage card? That's one program that I'd like to move the dll it installs in /windows - but never seems to work on the hx4700 I think because of the preinstalled PI.

Hmm, well, I think I have misspoke :) I just specfiied to load onto the CF card, and assumed (there goes that word) that it put everything onto the CF card.

Dave

[rlucky]

So should WM2003SE users is it worth the upgrade? I am not fond of tweaking my device just to get the same level of performance of our WM2003SE device.

I install to the main memory for good reasons:

1) the application will not install on a storage card as an option
2) I keep synchronized files on my internal memory for security reasons since a password is required to acces the data on the device. Not synchronizing files is NOT an option (this is a business need for myself).

Will storing e-mails on internal memory hurt performance that much? Can anyone confirm that they have applications installed locally and do not experience a severe performance degredation?

thanks!

Raul

[Marcel_Proust]

Dave C

How did you get PI to work from the storage card? That's one program that I'd like to move the dll it installs in /windows - but never seems to work on the hx4700 I think because of the preinstalled PI.

Hmm, well, I think I have misspoke :) I just specfiied to load onto the CF card, and assumed (there goes that word) that it put everything onto the CF card.

Dave

yeah. it puts like 2 mb of assorted dlls in /windows folder.

[Marcel_Proust]

So should WM2003SE users is it worth the upgrade? I am not fond of tweaking my device just to get the same level of performance of our WM2003SE device.

I install to the main memory for good reasons:

1) the application will not install on a storage card as an option
2) I keep synchronized files on my internal memory for security reasons since a password is required to acces the data on the device. Not synchronizing files is NOT an option (this is a business need for myself).

Will storing e-mails on internal memory hurt performance that much? Can anyone confirm that they have applications installed locally and do not sexperience a severe performance degredation?

thanks!

Raul
depends.
the big plus for me in wm5 is the persistent storage. i've had a couple of unexpected hard resets in the past, and this no longer happens. hard resets are now really soft resets. so less worry for me.
if you don't like to tweak yourself, you can use tweaks2k2, it does most of them. the email tweak to storage card, you'll have to do yourself. or use flexmail. i find flexmail kind of slow even after umpeenth beta.
to sync files to an external card i use MightySync 2.0. i also have security concerns, so use sentry 2020 to encrypt everything. there are other programs available for sync to storage card and also for security.
by the way, your internal storage isn't very secure, if you are just using the built in wm5 password. you should use an encryption. there are ways to bypass the built in password.
if it wasn't for the persistent storage issue, for me, i wouldn't upgrade.

[pcboy2003]

That's the first time I see a company support a discontinued product, wow,

Dell should really fix x50v with wm5.0 upgrade.

HX4700 is made by HTC, so that means x50v is able doable.

[rlucky]

Marcel,

thanks for our reply. I think the persistent storage is a good enough reason to move to WM5. I do have a couple of questions:

1) file compaction appears to happen when there is this fragmentation due to a lot of writes to persistent storage (PS). I don't write a lot unless: notes, tasks, contacts, appointmens and mail changes, files change on sync'd files (1-2 files every other hour) and web (I know how to relocate the cache to a storage card). Once the compaction is done, am I right that unless there are further changes to the PS, there should be no performance issue?

2) I do a lot of music listening and an occasional movie via TCMP and MPEGTV (all multimedia and TCMP and MPEGTV reside on memory cards), will this write to PS or only RAM? Can you think of any other app that might temporarily cache to PS during execution? If I am listening to music, will the file compaction cause multimedia (audio/video) to stutter?

having these answered may be what I am looking for to make my final leap of faith...

thanks!

Raul

[SHC]

Well Skyscape say they will give me new unlock codes so now the big question? Having upgraded before and then downgraded back to 2003SE - This time is it worth it? :?:

[Menneisyys]

So should WM2003SE users is it worth the upgrade? I am not fond of tweaking my device just to get the same level of performance of our WM2003SE device.

I install to the main memory for good reasons:

1) the application will not install on a storage card as an option
2) I keep synchronized files on my internal memory for security reasons since a password is required to acces the data on the device. Not synchronizing files is NOT an option (this is a business need for myself).

Will storing e-mails on internal memory hurt performance that much? Can anyone confirm that they have applications installed locally and do not experience a severe performance degredation?

thanks!

Raul

It all depends on how many files are concerned - if, say, you only have 2-3 Mbytes of synched stuff and few of it is changed over a synchronization, the new version is pretty usable. I'd say, then, go for it.

If there are dozens of megabytes of file deletion/update every day, then, you'll experience lengthy filesys sessions quite often.

[David_C]

Well Skyscape say they will give me new unlock codes so now the big question? Having upgraded before and then downgraded back to 2003SE - This time is it worth it? :?:

I've done the exact same thing, but decided to give it a shot and I was pleasntly surprised :)

The speed is about the same (have not run tests, just observation), and I have had just about zero problems with the programs I have installed.

The ONLY problem I have had is with a small app called Moonphase. I just needed to load it in main memory rather then my CF card. Other then that, PI, Pocket Weather, PocketBreeze, Flex Wallet, SPB time, SPB Imaager, Avant Go (did not look or work too good in the previous WM5), Suduko Pack, One for all Solitares, they ALL work without a problem for me.

Upgrading for me was just a matter of reloading the software. I have a folder in my download folder called Pocket PDA files, in which I have all the programs I normally load. The first program I reload is Flex Wallet. I keep a copy of the Flex Wallet file on my SD card (I have both an SD and CF), which has ALL of my registration codes.

Plus, there is a bonus :mrgreen: I have more room. I have an average of 6-7 megs (based on observation) more then I did with 2003 SE. For me, that made it worth it :)

Dave C

[SHC]

Well I've started the process will report back on success or otherwise!

[Marcel_Proust]

Marcel,

thanks for our reply. I think the persistent storage is a good enough reason to move to WM5. I do have a couple of questions:

1) file compaction appears to happen when there is this fragmentation due to a lot of writes to persistent storage (PS). I don't write a lot unless: notes, tasks, contacts, appointmens and mail changes, files change on sync'd files (1-2 files every other hour) and web (I know how to relocate the cache to a storage card). Once the compaction is done, am I right that unless there are further changes to the PS, there should be no performance issue?

2) I do a lot of music listening and an occasional movie via TCMP and MPEGTV (all multimedia and TCMP and MPEGTV reside on memory cards), will this write to PS or only RAM? Can you think of any other app that might temporarily cache to PS during execution? If I am listening to music, will the file compaction cause multimedia (audio/video) to stutter?

having these answered may be what I am looking for to make my final leap of faith...

thanks!

Raul

Raul, I don't know the specific answer to your questions, Mennisys would probably be more able to tell you the technical aspects of what you're aspects.
However, I have not had personal problems with the new version of WM5 and I give my 4700 very heavy use, from the sounds of it heavier than you.
1. so with 1, you should be ok.
2. I use TCMP a lot, and it works well. But I use it alone, watching a movie and closing all other programs. So far no problems.
3. For a music program running in the program, I have not had any problems, with streaming radio using mortplayer and windows media in the background. With I tend not to play mp3s on it prefering a portable player, so don't know about that. XCPUScalar tells me these take about 10-20 percent of extra processor time, but the system is otherwise stable.

After a few days now, the system is very stable, and I have had to do very few resets, fewer than with the older version of wm5, and maybe even less than 2003se. It also seems to turn on after being turned off all the time and that's with leaving Activesync on auto timed sync!

[Menneisyys]

seems to turn on after being turned off all the time and that's with leaving Activesync on auto timed sync!

the fake server trick MUST be used with the new version too

[Marcel_Proust]

seems to turn on after being turned off all the time and that's with leaving Activesync on auto timed sync!

the fake server trick MUST be used with the new version too

i'm afraid mine is fine.
now maybe because i am running both a desktop activesync and a real exchange activesync...?
i have mine scheduled to auto every 10 minutes, with no problems turning on and off.

[Menneisyys]

OK guys and gals, here's something you'll like (verbatim crosspost from my blog):

The new HP iPAQ hx4700 WM5 upgrade: Questions &amp; Answers

Due to popular demand (particularly here in the blog, at Pocket PC Thoughts (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=411492), MobilitySite (http://www.mobilitysite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30686) and BrightHand (http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=226082)), I summarize what needs to be known about the new upgrade.

Note that by "new" and "2.01" I refer to the new patch available here (http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/HandheldiPAQ/us/download/23729.html); by "old" and "2.0" I refer to the upgrade CD orderable here (http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/cache/307933-0-0-225-121.html).


Q: Do I need to install the "old", non-free, 2.0 upgrade? Or, can I install 2.01 right on my WM2003SE device?

A: Unfortunately, you must install 2.0 first (and purchase it if you still don't have it). The new, 2.01 upgrade must be installed on top of 2.0. I don't think HP will ever release a stand-alone 2.01 upgrade CD meant for WM2003SE devices. However, don't be afraid of the two upgrades: it has gone with all the hx4700 users flawlessly, as opposed with, say, the A12 upgrade for the Dell Axim x51v (see this (http://www.aximsite.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=109) for more info if interested). All you need to do is making sure you don't use any USB cable extender or hub (the main causes for upgrade-time Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) screens.)



Q: Is 2.01 worth installing at all? The old, 2.0 upgrade really sucked, even with your hacks and patches.

A: It depends on your usage patterns and the need for running "legacy", pre-WM5 applications incompatible with WM5. The new version is about 60% better when it comes to compaction (see the reports here and here on this), the biggest enemy of WM5-upgraded hx4700 (and, for that matter, Dell Axim x50(v)) users. This means the dreaded filesys.exe compaction "kicks in" 60% less times than with 2.0. Also, it contains the CF patch built-in. I'd say it's pretty usable, particularly if you follow my advice on not putting anything in the built-in storage and try to relocate everything from there to storage cards.

Q: Has the incompatibility problem with many games been fixed?

A: Nope (see this for more (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1081&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1)). A lot of games (still) don't run, while they did under WM2003SE. This is one of the biggest problem with the hx4700 WM5 upgrade(s). If you want all your games run on your hx4700, do not upgrade to WM5 at all.

Q: Is the NavPointService bug fixed?

A: Now, it behaves considerably better, as opposed to version 2.0. However, particularly if you keep many games on your PDA, you may still want to disable it as described in here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=830&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1).

Q: Do I need to apply your cache tweaks?

A: Nope, not any more. The I/O system seems to be well-optimized now.

Q: Do I need to use your filesys.exe throttler?

A: I'd say no. It caused lockups with several users with the 2.0 and, therefore, its usability was pretty limited. Now that filesys.exe is far friendlier in the new version, I'd say the filesys throttler need not be used.

Q: Do I need to apply your Compact Flash patch (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=852&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1)?

A: Not any more - now, CF works just great.

Q: Do I need to apply the "fake server hack" (see bullet 5 in this article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=861&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1))?

A: Absolutely! It's a must in the new version too.

Q: All in all, which hacks must be applied?

A: Disabling NavPointService is recommended; the fake server hack is a must.

Q: Is there any way I could make filesys.exe only run when I don't actively use the Pocket PC / it's on AC power / I explicitly let it run?

A: There isn't. Unfortunately, attempts at this (with the Dell Axim x50 series) have been unsuccessful too. You have to live with the filesys.exe compactions whenever filesys sees it right to "kick in". Right now, there is no way of fine-controlling it.

Q: Will Dell Axim x50(v) users also receive a similar upgrade?

A: I don't think so. Dell seems to have completely abandoned the Dell Axim x50(v) WM5 upgrade. Hope I turn to be wrong though.

Q: You mentioned in your previous articles (for example this one (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=929&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1)) the old, 2.0 upgrade had the (errorenous) sector size of 4096 bytes, instead of the recommended 512 bytes. Has this been fixed?

A: Yes, it has been fixed, as can also be seen in this screenshot (http://www.winmobiletech.com/kuvat/hx4700WM5201-sectorSize.bmp.png).

Q: The homepage of all the available hx4700 upgrades (http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/HandheldiPAQ/us/revision/9089.html) mentioned we need to install an earlier, WM2003SE-related extended battery patch. How come it isn't incorporated in this ROM upgrade?

A: It only applies to the old, 1.10 upgrade (few people have noticed this), NOT the 2.01 one (the list contains all the upgrades released so far, not just 2.01; this is what confused many people (even me at first)). That is, you don't need to install it at all.

Q: I'm not sure I should switch from WM2003SE to WM5 at all. I'm still afraid of the reduced effectiveness of the device, the spontaneous hard resets and battery depletion.

A: Battery depletion can be easily fighted by just applying the fake server trick (see bullet 8). As far as your other questions are concerned: it all depends on how you use your device. If you follow my tutorials and

NOT install any application in the main storage or put any file in there
relocate everything possible from there (for example, the ActiveSync-synchronized Outlook mail - tutorial here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=995&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1))
use RAM disks whenever possible (please do read this article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1091&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) for more information), particularly for desktop-based program installation, quick tests and browser caches

you can effectively reduce the time filesys.exe spends at compaction, which means a dependable and reliable hx4700. Then, I'd certainly recommend the upgrade (if other problems - for example, the somewhat limited compatibility with pre-WM5, "legacy" applications and games - aren't a showstopper).

[Menneisyys]

Menneisyys,

Did they change the cluster size for this new rom?

Thanks.
Yes, they have; it's 512 bytes now. See my Q&amp;A above.

[SHC]

Hi
Well it does seem much better this time, it's certainly useable now.
I would like to do the mail storage fix but I can't open the images for the file paths, might be because i'm at work.

[Menneisyys]

Hi
Well it does seem much better this time, it's certainly useable now.
I would like to do the mail storage fix but I can't open the images for the file paths, might be because i'm at work.

My webspace provider is experiencing problems. Try again later.

[David_C]

A: Battery depletion can be easily fighted by just applying the fake server trick (see bullet 8)

What does the fake server do??

I see "battery depletion" is mentioned, but I am still a bit confused (of course, it is 7 am here and the morning coffee has'nt kicked in quite yet), lol.


Dave C

[Menneisyys]

A: Battery depletion can be easily fighted by just applying the fake server trick (see bullet 8)

What does the fake server do??

I see "battery depletion" is mentioned, but I am still a bit confused (of course, it is 7 am here and the morning coffee has'nt kicked in quite yet), lol.


Dave C

It stops the Pocket PC from waking up every 5 minutes.

[NewKreation]

I am currently at WM2003SE on my 4700.

Should I try to keep all of my files on a storage card as well to keep the Pocket PC fast? What about iPAQ File Store? If I put my files there, will I see any performance loss? If someone could point my to an article to read or any other info regarding this, I would be grateful.

Thanks in advance,

[Menneisyys]

I am currently at WM2003SE on my 4700.

Should I try to keep all of my files on a storage card as well to keep the Pocket PC fast? What about iPAQ File Store? If I put my files there, will I see any performance loss? If someone could point my to an article to read or any other info regarding this, I would be grateful.

Thanks in advance,

On WM2003SE, you can safely use the iPAQ File Store to store files / install programs to. My articles only discuss WM5.

[David_C]

[
It stops the Pocket PC from waking up every 5 minutes.

Does this happen when it is in the cradle (getting AC power) or does it happen OUT of the cradle??

Sorry for making this complicated, just a bit confused, guess that coffee still hasn't made it to my brain.


Dave C

[Menneisyys]

[
It stops the Pocket PC from waking up every 5 minutes.

Does this happen when it is in the cradle (getting AC power) or does it happen OUT of the cradle??

Sorry for making this complicated, just a bit confused, guess that coffee still hasn't made it to my brain.


Dave C

In both cases. It's completely independent of ActiveSync running.

[SHC]

Everything was going along fine. I took out my CF card to put in a card reader and then put it back in the ipaq. Now I've got CF Card and CF Card2. CF2 card has all the programmes on but the ipaq cant see them. I cant rename the cards either. Anyone got an idea how to fix this? Please! :cry:

The CF card is still there even when it isnt in the slot and CF2 isnt listed at all

Ok, Panic over! It was related to the mail fix. When I took the card out, the ipaq still expected the path to be there so it must have made one. The solution was to boot in safe mode (Spb pocket plus) and delete the folder then remove the registry changes.

[Marcel_Proust]

Everything was going along fine. I took out my CF card to put in a card reader and then put it back in the ipaq. Now I've got CF Card and CF Card2. CF2 card has all the programmes on but the ipaq cant see them. I cant rename the cards either. Anyone got an idea how to fix this? Please! :cry:

The CF card is still there even when it isnt in the slot and CF2 isnt listed at all

Ok, Panic over! It was related to the mail fix. When I took the card out, the ipaq still expected the path to be there so it must have made one. The solution was to boot in safe mode (Spb pocket plus) and delete the folder then remove the registry changes.
It's a common occurrence when removing cf cards. i don't think you need to use safe mode. ? just delete CF and reboot immediately works for me? but i stand to be corrected.
Also a question to Mennisys - I like having lots of fonts, but don't want to use the /windows/fonts/ folders in wm5. any way to put them on the storage card?

[Menneisyys]

Also a question to Mennisys - I like having lots of fonts, but don't want to use the /windows/fonts/ folders in wm5. any way to put them on the storage card?

Did you try Fonts on Storage? (Dunno if it's WM5-compliant - haven't tested yet)

[Menneisyys]

Everything was going along fine. I took out my CF card to put in a card reader and then put it back in the ipaq. Now I've got CF Card and CF Card2. CF2 card has all the programmes on but the ipaq cant see them. I cant rename the cards either. Anyone got an idea how to fix this? Please! :cry:

The CF card is still there even when it isnt in the slot and CF2 isnt listed at all

Ok, Panic over! It was related to the mail fix. When I took the card out, the ipaq still expected the path to be there so it must have made one. The solution was to boot in safe mode (Spb pocket plus) and delete the folder then remove the registry changes.

You can safely use (and are supposed to use if you want to avoid filesys.exe compactions) any relocation hacks. The CF2 stuff you've mentioned happened because you've removed the card when the PDA was cradled and while it was out, AtiveSync synced another Outlook mail and, seeing the path isn't tehre, it just created it.

Also see my blog on these Storage Card2 problems (I've written a LOT on them): http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=275&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1

[SHC]

Yes, that's what happend.
Overall I'm quite pleased now.
Just having trouble with Windows Media player now. It refuses to see the tracks that were on the CF card before the upgrade. Done the usual stuff - re-built library it crashes, deleted index etc. So starting from scratch. Funny thing is, Pocket Player could see them - but wouldnt play the protected files obviously. Never mind, adds to the exitement.

Oh bother! Now cant play any media files in any programme...hmmm

[Marcel_Proust]

Also a question to Mennisys - I like having lots of fonts, but don't want to use the /windows/fonts/ folders in wm5. any way to put them on the storage card?

Did you try Fonts on Storage? (Dunno if it's WM5-compliant - haven't tested yet)

yup on old wm5 rom. haven't tested this one, but wouldn't think that would change. i would guess some registry tweak would be necessary.

[SHC]

Hi Menneisyys,
I've got most of the problems fixed now but I've got another one which I don't know the cause of or how to fix it.
When I turn the device on, I have to wait at least 20 - 25 seconds before attempting to launch any programmes. If I try to launch a programme before that time the device freezes and needs a soft reset. I have most programmes installed onto a 4GB Hitachi microdrive but it doesnt make any difference if the programme I want to use is there or on main memory. I guess for some reason the device needs longer to spin up the microdrive but it didnt have this problem before the upgrade. Any thing you can think of that may explain or help?
And now I have to soft reset just to turn it on each time.
Thanks

[juni]

I have the power-on problem too. I've been suspecting the reg-import I made from Menneisyys blog (the one with all the hx4700 fixes).

[Menneisyys]

Here’s the new version of the WM5 2.01 Q&amp;A (crosspost):

Due to popular demand (particularly here in the blog, at Pocket PC Thoughts (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=411492), MobilitySite (http://www.mobilitysite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30686) and BrightHand (http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=226082)), I summarize what needs to be known about the new upgrade.

Note that by "new" and "2.01" I refer to the new patch available here (http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/HandheldiPAQ/us/download/23729.html); by "old" and "2.0" I refer to the upgrade CD orderable here (http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/cache/307933-0-0-225-121.html).


Q: Do I need to install the "old", non-free, 2.0 upgrade? Or, can I install 2.01 right on my WM2003SE device?

A: Unfortunately, you must install 2.0 first (and purchase it if you still don't have it). The new, 2.01 upgrade must be installed on top of 2.0. I don't think HP will ever release a stand-alone 2.01 upgrade CD meant for WM2003SE devices. However, don't be afraid of the two upgrades: it has gone with all the hx4700 users flawlessly, as opposed with, say, the A12 upgrade for the Dell Axim x51v (see this (http://www.aximsite.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=109) for more info if interested). All you need to do is making sure you don't use any USB cable extender or hub (the main causes for upgrade-time Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) screens.)

Q: Is 2.01 worth installing at all? The old, 2.0 upgrade really sucked, even with your hacks and patches.

A: It depends on your usage patterns and the need for running "legacy", pre-WM5 applications incompatible with WM5. The new version is about 60% better when it comes to compaction (see the reports here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1088&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) and here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1089&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) on this), the biggest enemy of WM5-upgraded hx4700 (and, for that matter, Dell Axim x50(v)) users. This means the dreaded filesys.exe compaction "kicks in" 60% less times than with 2.0. Also, it contains the CF patch built-in. I'd say it's pretty usable, particularly if you follow my advice on not putting anything in the built-in storage and try to relocate everything from there to storage cards.

Q: Has the incompatibility problem (they just wouldn’t start, unlike on other WM5 devices) with many games and some utilities been fixed?

A: Nope (see this for more (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1081&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1)). A lot of games (still) don't run, while they did under WM2003SE. This is one of the biggest problem with the hx4700 WM5 upgrade(s). If you want all your games run on your hx4700, do not upgrade to WM5 at all.

Q: Is the NavPointService bug fixed?

A: Now, it behaves considerably better (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1081&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1), as opposed to version 2.0. However, particularly if you keep many games on your PDA, you may still want to disable it as described in here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=830&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1).

Q: Do I need to apply your cache tweaks?

A: Nope, not any more. The I/O system seems to be well-optimized now.

Q: Do I need to use your filesys.exe throttler?

A: I'd say no. It caused lockups with several users with the 2.0 and, therefore, its usability was pretty limited. Now that filesys.exe is far friendlier in the new version, I'd say the filesys throttler need not be used.

Q: Do I need to apply your Compact Flash patch (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=852&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1)?

A: Not any more - now, CF works just great.

Q: Do I need to apply the "fake server hack" (see bullet 5 in this article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=861&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1))?

A: Absolutely! It's a must in the new version too if you don't have any Exchange servers to be accessed.

Q: All in all, which hacks must be applied?

A: Disabling NavPointService is recommended; the fake server hack is a must (if you don't access Exchange servers from your handheld).

Q: Is there any way I could make filesys.exe only run when I don't actively use the Pocket PC / it's on AC power / I explicitly let it run?

A: There isn't. Unfortunately, attempts at this (with the Dell Axim x50 series) have been unsuccessful too. You have to live with the filesys.exe compactions whenever filesys sees it right to "kick in". Right now, there is no way of fine-controlling it.

Q: Will Dell Axim x50(v) users also receive a similar upgrade?

A: I don't think so. Dell seems to have completely abandoned the Dell Axim x50(v) WM5 upgrade. Hope I turn to be wrong though.

Q: You've mentioned in your previous articles (for example this one (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=929&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1)) the old, 2.0 upgrade had the (errorenous) sector size of 4096 bytes, instead of the recommended 512 bytes. Has this been fixed?

A: Yes, it has been fixed, as can also be seen in this screenshot (http://www.winmobiletech.com/kuvat/hx4700WM5201-sectorSize.bmp.png).

Q: You've also mentioned in your previous articles on the 2.0 version (for example here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=893&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1)) that the built-in DockWare application is buggy and must be updated to avoid compaction. Does the new, 2.01 version of ROM contain the new latest DockWare, or, should I, as before, install the freely downloadable update?

A: This issue has also been fixed - 2.01, unlike 2.0, contains the latest DockWare version. That is, you don't need to upgrade DockWare. However, as before, I really recommend entirely getting rid of the (built-in storage-based and, therefore, deletable) factory-default DockWare input files in \My Documents\My Pictures\ to reduce the load on the built-in flash ROM (and, consequently, the time spent at compactions / the frequency of them). Also, if you don't use it, consider removing (or relocating to a storage card) \Program Files\Dockware\DockWare.exe too for exactly the same reasons.

Q: Earlier, the homepage of all the available hx4700 upgrades (http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/files/HandheldiPAQ/us/revision/9089.html) mentioned we need to install an earlier, WM2003SE-related extended battery patch. How come it isn't incorporated in this ROM upgrade?

A: The Extended Battery upgrade is very old and only applies to the old, 1.10 upgrade, NOT the 2.01 one. Listing this old upgrade as an additional, recommended upgrade for 2.01 users was HP's mistake. Now, HP has fixed the mistake. That is, you don't need to install the upgrade at all.

Q: What sources of WM5 &amp; hx4700-related information are there?

A: I recommend the following three threads on the 2.01 upgrade: Pocket PC Thoughts (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=411492), MobilitySite (http://www.mobilitysite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30686) and BrightHand (http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=226082).

General hx4700- (or, with PPCT, HP-) related information (some of it being related to WM5) can be found in the following forums: BightHand (http://discussion.brighthand.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1247), MobilitySite (http://www.mobilitysite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=44), PPCT (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=16).

Q: What about WM5 hx4700-specific compatibility information? Where do I find additional information on the WM5 compliance of current (and past) releases?

A: In all my software reviews, roundups and comparisons, I (along with my other Pocket PC’s) also test the given title on my WM5-upgraded hx4700. That is, make sure you follow my (new) reviews and roundups for hx4700 compatibility information.

Q: I'm not sure I should switch from WM2003SE to WM5 at all. I'm still afraid of the reduced effectiveness of the device, the spontaneous hard resets and battery depletion.

A: Battery depletion can be easily fought by just applying the fake server trick (see bullet 8). As far as your other questions are concerned: it all depends on how you use your device. If you follow my tutorials and do what's listed in the list that follows, you can effectively reduce the time filesys.exe spends at compaction, which means a dependable and reliable hx4700. Then, I'd certainly recommend the upgrade (if other problems - for example, the somewhat limited compatibility with pre-WM5, "legacy" applications and games - aren't a showstopper). The list:

do NOT install any application in the main storage or put any file in there
relocate everything possible from there (for example, the ActiveSync-synchronized Outlook mail - tutorial here (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=995&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1))
use RAM disks whenever possible (please do read this article (http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&amp;p=1091&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&amp;tb=1&amp;pb=1) for more information), particularly for desktop-based program installation, quick tests and browser caches

[SHC]

I have the power-on problem too. I've been suspecting the reg-import I made from Menneisyys blog (the one with all the hx4700 fixes).
Yes, I wonder if that's the problem too. I used tweaks2k2 to apply them plus the e-mail fix. Might see if I can undo them and see what happens.

[Menneisyys]

I have the power-on problem too. I've been suspecting the reg-import I made from Menneisyys blog (the one with all the hx4700 fixes).

Now, with the new version, no registry import is necessary - the old cache hacks are no longer necessary. All you need to do in Registry is simply deleting the Navi service.

[juni]

But if they have been imported: How do I get back to the state it was before I applied them and do they hurt if they were imported?

[SHC]

But if they have been imported: How do I get back to the state it was before I applied them and do they hurt if they were imported?
I have undone the changes I made using Tweaks2k2 and the problem for now seems to have been resolved. I know that doesn't help you much if you made the changes manually but at least it may show it's the right direction to pursue.
I noticed that 3 programmes I had on the start menu and installed on a microdrive had missing icons. Thats what made me think it was the microdrive being slow to spin up. However that issue has stopped and I think it's related to the "increase PNP Unload Delay" fix which looking at it again in retrospect I didnt need to do. I'm probably totally wrong of course and it will all go pear shaped again rather soon!

[SHC]

See - didn't last more than 2 hours and it's started again. Now I'm stumped. Do I go back to 2003SE?? Again!

[Marcel_Proust]

See - didn't last more than 2 hours and it's started again. Now I'm stumped. Do I go back to 2003SE?? Again!

i've tried all kinds of tweaks, and the new rom seems very stable with almost everything i throw at it....so wait a bit if you can...
do you have cf2 and sd2 folders on your machine...they can cause strange effects when present.

[juni]

I might do a hard reset and see what happens. It could also be one of the today-plugins. I have WA2, PB, PW and iLauncher installed on my SD card. The strange thing is that when I do a soft-reset it works like normal until I do a power-off.

[SHC]

I might do a hard reset and see what happens. It could also be one of the today-plugins. I have WA2, PB, PW and iLauncher installed on my SD card. The strange thing is that when I do a soft-reset it works like normal until I do a power-off.
I have the same programmes on a microdrive (except WA.And you are right works fine until it's next powered down and back on.

[juni]

I think I found the guilty program.

I did a hard reset and everything worked fine until I installed WA2 to the SD card.

A soft-reset will get everything working, since I don't have WA2 to autmatically start after a soft-reset.

------------ update ----------

I unistalled WA2,did a soft-reset, then installed it to main memory and also put the theme I'm using in main memory and the problem vanished. :)

[SHC]

It's an odd one this isnt it?
I don't have WA on my device. I've undone the synced mail fix and seems to be ok now. But I said that before!
I wonder if it's iLauncher thats doing it? I might move it to main memory and see.

[Islanti]

I'm also seeing the power on lockup issue. I had WA2, iLauncher, PocketWeather, and PocketBreeze running (the latter 3 as Today screen plug-ins) from SD Card. Moving the WA2 themes to main memory alone didn't fix this. I disabled all of them and the problem went away. I'm going to try re-installing all 4 to main memory to see if the problem says gone.

[Menneisyys]

I'm also seeing the power on lockup issue. I had WA2, iLauncher, PocketWeather, and PocketBreeze running (the latter 3 as Today screen plug-ins) from SD Card. Moving the WA2 themes to main memory alone didn't fix this. I disabled all of them and the problem went away. I'm going to try re-installing all 4 to main memory to see if the problem says gone.

Yup, Today plug-ins shouldn't be installed to storage cards because of the resume initialization delay.

[zzcat]

I would like to ask a very simple question, and hope perhaps to get a non-technical answer:

With the new ROM update, is the hx4700 at least very close to being as responsive to stylus taps and such as WM2003SE? What I mean is, with 2003 the Start menu pops up instantaneously when I tap it. Opening and closing programs happens pretty much instantly.

I tried the original WM5 upgrade, applied all the reghacks, etc. etc. Performance was simply unacceptable. There were lags of between 1-5 seconds before anything happened after a stylus tap. Keyboard input lagged about as much. I don't think this was so much about filesys compaction--although there were times when the system was obviously totally bogged down. I'm talking about normal operation. One caveat: Since HP has never released anything but English WM5 for the 4700, I have to add a few additional items to make it Chinese-capable. Otherwise, nothing unusual (the same extensions, by the way, on my old h2205 never noticeably impacted system performance).

I'm tempted to upgrade this time, but only if all else aside, the device still acts like a PDA and not Windows 1.0 running on a 286. Thanks!

[SHC]

I'm also seeing the power on lockup issue. I had WA2, iLauncher, PocketWeather, and PocketBreeze running (the latter 3 as Today screen plug-ins) from SD Card. Moving the WA2 themes to main memory alone didn't fix this. I disabled all of them and the problem went away. I'm going to try re-installing all 4 to main memory to see if the problem says gone.

Yup, Today plug-ins shouldn't be installed to storage cards because of the resume initialization delay.

I've just put iLauncher and PocketWeather back in main memory and the device slowed to a crawl - 25 seconds to open settings! just like the original WM5 upgrade. Put them back on the CF card and all appears to be much faster. It seems more stable now the only hack i've done is the navpoint one. I'm waiting for a new high speed CF card to arrive to replace the microdrive which I think is some way responsible for my problems. As it is now, I it's usable, on a par with 2003SE anyway.

[juni]

It is almost as fast as WM2003SE, but not quite. If you already bought the upgrade give it a go. :)

[Menneisyys]

I'm also seeing the power on lockup issue. I had WA2, iLauncher, PocketWeather, and PocketBreeze running (the latter 3 as Today screen plug-ins) from SD Card. Moving the WA2 themes to main memory alone didn't fix this. I disabled all of them and the problem went away. I'm going to try re-installing all 4 to main memory to see if the problem says gone.

Yup, Today plug-ins shouldn't be installed to storage cards because of the resume initialization delay.

I've just put iLauncher and PocketWeather back in main memory and the device slowed to a crawl - 25 seconds to open settings! just like the original WM5 upgrade. Put them back on the CF card and all appears to be much faster. It seems more stable now the only hack i've done is the navpoint one. I'm waiting for a new high speed CF card to arrive to replace the microdrive which I think is some way responsible for my problems. As it is now, I it's usable, on a par with 2003SE anyway.

The question is not about the SPEED of the card but the TIME the operating system / the hardware needs to gain access to the card upon returning from being suspended / after a reset. It's 1-2 secs even with the fastest cards.

That is, speedier non-MicroDrive cards won't help this situation.

BTW, I'll also test iLauncher and PocketWeather on my hx4700 (in the main storage) to see what the problem is (if not the usual filesys.exe kick-in).

[SHC]

You may well be right but to my simple mind it sounded feasable. When my device starts up the microdrive spins for an awful long time. If I try to launch a programme from the microdrive too quickly then the "xxx cannot be found" pops up. That never happens with the SD card. So that was my theory. Sounded good to me!
I will be interested to see your results with iLauncher and pocket weather.

[Menneisyys]

You may well be right but to my simple mind it sounded feasable. When my device starts up the microdrive spins for an awful long time. If I try to launch a programme from the microdrive too quickly then the "xxx cannot be found" pops up. That never happens with the SD card. So that was my theory. Sounded good to me!
I will be interested to see your results with iLauncher and pocket weather.

Yup, Microdrives are indeed very slow but I wouldn't put ANY Today plug-ins on flash memory cards either.

Will test the two apps to see whether they are, in some way, mess up the hx4700.

[SHC]

I've no tests or proof only my limited subjective experience to go on. I just transferred everything to a new high speed CF card and it is an awful lot snappier. I've had no lock up's at all. What I can say though is that at times it slows down and becomes quite sluggish and then will suddenly pick up again.
This is only my experience with a Microdrive, no doubt others have similar problems with normal CF cards too. I suppose it could all be down to how various programmes interact with WM5 &amp; the 4700. Between us we must have thousands of different configurations all trying work on device that was not designed for WM5 from the ground up. I had a Jamin but gave it up because the 4700 suited my needs better and that screen!. So here I am with WM5 on my ipaq 4700 and it works, it's not perfect, nothing ever is.

Update: This is driving me nuts. Have not changed anything since saturday. Today, device so slow - 25 seconds to open programmes!. Was like that for 3 hours - on the verge of putting 2003SE back on when - all of a sudden it goes back to normal. very fast and usable. I wish I knew what was going on. I have done everything exactly as advised. There is not much point having a device that is usable for only half the time. I will persevere but I can see 2003SE back on next weekend. I won't have time till then. :|

[SHC]

I might as well have left my 4700 at home today for all the use it is.
It must be the Fliesys problem that is causing my problems. Even though I've done exactly as advised something is slowing it down to a crawl. For example, I wanted to look something up in Lexepedia. I waited 35 seconds for it to open, the another 45 while the spinning wheel did it's thing before I was given the answer I was looking for!
I'm going to go back to 2003SE. Enough is enough.

This is what is so very frustrating - it's now motoring along as if it's on speed! But for how long?

[Menneisyys]

This is driving me nuts. Have not changed anything since saturday. Today, device so slow - 25 seconds to open programmes!. Was like that for 3 hours - on the verge of putting 2003SE back on when - all of a sudden it goes back to normal. very fast and usable. I wish I knew what was going on. I have done everything exactly as advised. There is not much point having a device that is usable for only half the time. I will persevere but I can see 2003SE back on next weekend. I won't have time till then. :|

Are you sure you did everything as I've advised? Absolutely no apps/files / browser cache/mails in the built-in storage? Everything installed/stored on storage cards? Fake server and Navi hack applied?

[SHC]

This is driving me nuts. Have not changed anything since saturday. Today, device so slow - 25 seconds to open programmes!. Was like that for 3 hours - on the verge of putting 2003SE back on when - all of a sudden it goes back to normal. very fast and usable. I wish I knew what was going on. I have done everything exactly as advised. There is not much point having a device that is usable for only half the time. I will persevere but I can see 2003SE back on next weekend. I won't have time till then. :|

Are you sure you did everything as I've advised? Absolutely no apps/files / browser cache/mails in the built-in storage? Everything installed/stored on storage cards? Fake server and Navi hack applied?
Yes, I followed your advice exactly. The only programmes installed in main memory are Pocket Breeze and Spb pocket plus (for close button and repeating alarms only - the rest removed). Because they can't be installed anywhere else. Everything else is on the CF card. But as on my later post - It's now speeding along and is wonderful. Yet for about 3 hours this morning I was ready to throw it out of the window! I don't think I will have time to do anything with it until the weekend so I will have see how I get on until then. If it behaves then I will stick with WM5.

[SHC]

I just wonder if I might have found the culprit?
I have FlexMail 2007 beta installed to the CF card with storage also on the CF card. However, when I ran Flexmail this morning it did not shut down properly (it stuck with the spinning wheel until I forced it to close). I noticed in MemMaid that it was still listed as running (even though memory > settings said it wasn't). I stopped it. I haven't used FlexMail since and my 4700 is running OK. I also noticed a file "cemail.vol" at 48kb in main memory - what is that for?
Do you think this might be the cause?
I will run Flexmail later at home and see if it degrades the 4700 performance.

[Menneisyys]

I just wonder if I might have found the culprit?
I have FlexMail 2007 beta installed to the CF card with storage also on the CF card. However, when I ran Flexmail this morning it did not shut down properly (it stuck with the spinning wheel until I forced it to close). I noticed in MemMaid that it was still listed as running (even though memory > settings said it wasn't). I stopped it. I haven't used FlexMail since and my 4700 is running OK. I also noticed a file "cemail.vol" at 48kb in main memory - what is that for?
Do you think this might be the cause?
I will run Flexmail later at home and see if it degrades the 4700 performance.

cemail is Messaging's store of mail-related databases. FlexMail 2007 is said to be able to use it - I haven't personall checked this as yet.

[SHC]

Well that theory goes out of the window! FlexMail still doesn't close properly but my device hasn't slowed down yet.

Update: Have given up. Going back to 2003SE as we speak.
Can't have a device thats only usable 50% of the time.
Shame. :cry:

[matheo]

Hello!!

Could anybody help me identify the problem / that is find the solution or just confirm that it's common:

Every few days my hx4705 (WM5 rom v2.01), when left unused, drains completelly the battery so you have to charge the unit to be able to use it.

I was suspecting notification queue to cause the problem because I also had reminders problem not poping up but I cleaned the queue, fixed the reminders, but buttery problem remained.

Does enybody have similar problem? Is it common WM5 issiue?

Thanks
Math

[SHC]

Have you done the "fake server" hack? It could be ActiveSync waking your 4700 up every 10 minutes.

[matheo]

Yes, Server hack has been applied.
I will also mention that the e.g. yesteday I 'caught' my pocket on 'battery draining' and it was not responding at all with screen blank, not reacting to power button or any other buttons - only reset works. After then I saw my freshly charged battery drained to 50%.