BBC Discusses Barriers to Fuel Cell Technology

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/pda/sci/tech/newsid_4300000/newsid_4309600/4309686.htm' target='_blank'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/p...600/4309686.htm</a><br /><br /></div><i>"...Fuel Cell Industry Survey this week also revealed that many in the industry were continuing to see poor returns, despite pumping millions into research and development. This is blamed on delays in the take-up of fuel-cell technologies. Toshiba, for example, has developed a fuel-cell laptop, digital music player, and a mobile phone - but regulations are a barrier to their introduction. There is no confirmed date for the launch of any products because international flight regulations prohibit taking methanol, the fuel used in the cells, on board aircraft."</i><br /><br />If any of you are interested in the current state of fuel cell technology, this article may be worth a read. The scope of the article is focused on a much grander scale than just consumer electronics; however, the article does suggest that consumer electronics will be the first market to reap the benefits. It appears that various government and/or regulation bodies are mostly to blame for its lack of growth, as evidenced by Toshiba's struggle to time the release of its fuel cell-enabled devices. Folks, I'd be interested in hearing what your thoughts are on fuel cell technology.

[rhelwig]

insert generic libertarian condemnation of government here :devilboy:

Now I'm off searching on "propane fuel cell" - building a house with propane heat, lets see what else it can do!

I'd love to see a fuel cell for the HTC Universal.

[PDANEWBIE]

I read this and all I can think of is a terrorist pulling along a a big barrel of methanol saying... "but its only for my PDA."

Seriously though.... they just banned lighters on flights within the last half a year or so. I don't think methanol is going to make its way allowed onto the flights anytime soon.

Personally I love the idea of fuel cell I just don't think it will fly... Sorry for the bad pun.

[Jonathan1]

Maybe if most flights were equipped with power at each seat we wouldn't need fuel cells on a flight. Just a thought.

[gt24]

This could work if the devices were dual powered (batteries OR methanol could be used) and the power portion could be swapped out like batteries are today. Thus, before you fly, snap in your huge battery... else, fuel is your option.

It might make fuel cell devices somewhat larger though to compartmentalize the fuel cell power stuff and the battery stuff... but if it could be done, it could very well solve this problem.

[martin_ayton]

I had no idea that fuel cell technology had been miniaturised to the point where it was feasible to use as a power supply for 'consumer devices.' Taking as a starting assumption the fact that the fuel-cell 'battery' would have to take up no more room than an existing stored charge battery on a PDA, would anyone care to hazard a guess as to how long the PDA would operate on one 'charge' of methanol? If it is as long, or longer, than we can get out of current battery technologies, then I want one!

Reading between the lines though, these things must be phenomenally expensive. Why else would not being able to fly with them be a total market killer unless they are so expensive that the only early-adopters who can afford them will be the ones that can also afford to spend a significant amount of time in aeroplanes?

[Sven Johannsen]

With the way a lot of regulations are written, you probably can't fly a device that has ever had methanol in it, or could have had methanol in it, so dual powered likely wouldn't work either. If you buy a zippo lighter at the airport gift shop brand new and don't fill it, it can go home with you, but it isn't getting on the plane. (OK, so they probably don't sell lighters anymore)

Sure am glad the gov is protecting me from those molotov MP3 players.

Ditto the insert generic libertarian condemnation of government here

[Steve Jordan]

I too think it would be nice for the airlines to provide power outlets... no methanol worries, then, right?

Barring that... we should not forget that there are other ways to provide power for devices. Maybe more work should be put into considering human powered power sources, like hand-turned or air-pumped generators. Not everything has to be powered by outside sources, while there's still good old-fashioned muscle power available.

A shame we can't put human-powered methane to good use... ;)

[PDANEWBIE]

I had no idea that fuel cell technology had been miniaturised to the point where it was feasible to use as a power supply for 'consumer devices.' Taking as a starting assumption the fact that the fuel-cell 'battery' would have to take up no more room than an existing stored charge battery on a PDA, would anyone care to hazard a guess as to how long the PDA would operate on one 'charge' of methanol? If it is as long, or longer, than we can get out of current battery technologies, then I want one!

Oh they are small enough to fit in a handheld mp3 player -

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/16/toshiba_fuel_cell_mp3_players/

The two cells essentially differ in capacity: 3.5ml for the 100mW unit and 10ml for the 300mW cell. The 100mW cell can generate sufficient current for 35 hours of playback time, while the larger unit can operate the HDD-based device for 60 hours. ®

[PetiteFlower]

I suspect the problem with the aircraft ban is more of a problem for distributing the devices then just because people won't be able to take their devices on planes.

[dlinker]

I too think it would be nice for the airlines to provide power outlets... no methanol worries, then, right?

Barring that... we should not forget that there are other ways to provide power for devices. Maybe more work should be put into considering human powered power sources, like hand-turned or air-pumped generators. Not everything has to be powered by outside sources, while there's still good old-fashioned muscle power available.



Many airlines do provide power outlets - assuming you have the right adaptor. Some planes only have these in first/business class, but others have throughout the plane. Our company now issue every laptop with a three way A/C, car, plane power charger.

How about a hand powered charger. Yep, they've been on the market for over three years.
http://www.aladdinpower.com/apAladdinPower.html

They also designed a foot powered model, but looks like it never really took off (sorry couldn't resist yet another really bad pun).
http://www.aladdinpower.com/apStepCharger.html

[davea0511]

two thoughts:

1) Energy Conversion Devices makes a physically solid ovonic battery that can absorb a fluid up to 2X it's own weight. It is being touted as the only truly safe way to transport hydrogen in hydrogen cars. I see no reason why it couldn't do the same for methanol. It is physically impossible to extract the fluid out any faster than the rate at which the battery is designed to disperse it.

2) What's wrong with emptying out the methanol before you get on the plane? Here's the problem - manufacturers don't want to give you the option of filling your own device with methanol. All of these mobile fuelcell devices are built on a revenue generating model that requires you to buy sealed methanol batteries. Ie - you cannot refill it yourself. Much like the printer industry - they'll sell the devices for less than it costs to manufacture them and make money on the methanol batteries.

Of course, just like the injet printer industry, an underground refill kit movement will emerge overnight allowing people to cheaply fill their own methanol into their devices - and that would make it possible to empty a device before you take it on the plane. Sadly, that scenario is not considered when airports and government evaluate the technology, and it is therefore required that everyone must leave their sealed fuel cell cartridge at home making their device inoperable until they buy another expensive methanol battery.

So it's no wonder these guys can get it to pass government regulations. If they would rework their revenue models so we could fill and empty the cells with our own methanol then there would be no hangup. Just empty the thing when you get on the plane. A backup battery should maintian needed power in the air, and you can get more methanol from a vending machine when you land. That will never happen though - not as long as manufacturers plan on marketing these things as requiring sealed methanol batteries that cannot be easily emptied or refilled.