PC World Ponders What the Windows-Powered Treo Means for Palm

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://blogs.pcworld.com/techlog/archives/000929.html' target='_blank'>http://blogs.pcworld.com/techlog/ar...ves/000929.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"So it all comes down to this: It seems a dead certainty that Palm, the scrappy and innovative company that successfully challenged Microsoft in the mobile world for a decade, will be announcing the Treo 700W, a Windows-based Treo smartphone, on Monday. It's a major moment. And it leaves me with a few questions. Lots and lots of them, actually... "</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ekkie_winpalm.jpg" /><br /><br />Harry McCracken of PC World speculates on what the new Windows Mobile-powered Treo means for the future of Palm and the Palm OS. Poor Harry. I think he was shedding tears as he was writing this. For instance, his first question asks if there will be anything special about this device. Part of his answer shows him to be rather critical of the fact that the Windows Mobile OS is basically the same predictable OS on every device. Eh? That's a bad thing? Let's flip this script for a second. Hasn't the same "uniqueness" seen in today's Palm OS devices been the source of device driver and application issues? Oh, speaking of 3rd-party, Harry also goes on to moan over the "skimpy" selection of Windows Mobile 3rd-party apps compared to Palm. What? Oh yeah, I remember this argument... uhhh... like three years ago!! I think it's time for Harry to put down that peace pipe! Or perhaps I'm just too blinded in my use of Windows Mobile to see his point? Give it a read and gives us your thoughts!

[Clinton Fitch]

Okay, clearly I'm missing the point here...

Having the same OS run on all these devices is a bad thing? 8O

Making it easy to go from one device to another - much like an HP to a Dell - is even worse because you will know where everything is located right off? 8O

And I do believe the author needs to go and learn how to use Google and do a simple, three-word search: Pocket PC Software. There are more than a scarce few applications out there my friend.

This is both sad and humorous at the same time. I am sure that this is a culture shock to the Palm-types out there and as this article proves, some are not really thrilled with all of this. That is understandable.

The PalmOS is good and it has its highpoints. But my gosh, the difference in functionality is night and day comparied to a Windows Mobile device.

[jngold_me]

Did you ever read articles from authors that "just didn't get it?". This is a perfect example.

[lapchinj]

Harry McCracken of PC World speculates on what the new Windows ... Or perhaps I'm just too blinded in my use of Windows Mobile to see his point? Give it a read and gives us your thoughts!No I don't think that you're too blinded and this piece doesn't sound like a Palm diatribe from someone willing to go down fighting. While I do read his columns from time to time and I do find him to be very readable I was very surprised though with this article since I felt that it was a total lack of knowledge of current events and of what's going on in both the PPC and Palm worlds. I would have thought that since he is a columnist for PC World that he would have kept more up to date on what's happening lately. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but this just seems to be a disconnected dataset still in memory for 10 years and not based on any general knowledge of what's happening out there.

... Oh, speaking of 3rd-party, Harry also goes on to moan over the "skimpy" selection of Windows Mobile 3rd-party apps compared to Palm. What? Oh yeah :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Jeff-

[surur]

His middle name isnt Phil, is it?

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1809/philmccracken2tw.jpg

http://www.halloweenshop.com/gc7193.html

Surur

[Phillip Dyson]

As I read the article it sounded more like an old man befuddled and saddened about the end of the Big Band era. :roll:

Its ridiculus that a journalist would not have more knowledge about "the other side". I'm no expert on the PalmOS but I know a little.

[gibson042]

I was shocked as much by the comments as by the article. The proportion of people who refuse to even consider using Windows Mobile because it is made by Microsoft is just amazing, as is the magnitude of their disgust. Many do not even seem to understand the difference between Windows and Windows Mobile. And then there was the highlight of all the comments: a person made sick to his stomach by the thought of a WM Treo but rationalizing it as a good business move by Palm to lessen the influence of RIM, since the minor player Microsoft is largely overshadowed by those two majors.

Now, I have no great loyalty to Windows Mobile. I like it because it is a multitasking handheld OS, and because it is very easy to develop applications for (resulting in a very large and diverse set of available applications that can fit all of my needs). Nor do I have a hatred of PalmOS, although I would not be satisfied by it. But since when was Microsoft not a major player in the mobile OS market? Last time I checked, Symbian was the leader, with Microsoft and RIM lagging well behind and Palm struggling to get by on Treos. Please, somebody correct me if I'm wrong or tell me that the article and its comments are a joke that I didn't get. I try to stay current on news about handhelds, and I know how passionate people get about Palm, but there is an awful lot of misinformation on that page... especially for being written by the Editor in Chief of a significant technology magazine.

[dazz]

:lol: :lol: This is kind of funny. I just posted an article at my site about the same thing, just another writer:

http://smartmobileassets.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl/Blah.pl?,v=display,b=news,m=1127679491

Same kind of problem here; they seem to just keep rehashing the same tripe over and over. Somebody needs to take ALL of their tech away, put a Windows Mobile device in their hands and lock the door for a month!! 8)

Well...I suppose someone should feed them from time to time. :way to go:

[Phillip Dyson]

It all seems to have that absurd feeling like when you run into someone who is still comparing OSX to Windows 3.1 or Win98

[inteller]

I was shocked as much by the comments as by the article. The proportion of people who refuse to even consider using Windows Mobile because it is made by Microsoft is just amazing, as is the magnitude of their disgust.

yeah, the blind hatred of anything Microsoft is so stupid these days its not even funny. of course those of us with jobs that work for a living realize that you can sit there all day and spout such vitriol, or you can learn to use what is the most popular OS platform in the world.

[rmasinag]

I'm a PPC user because boring means very compatible with lots of stuff. If I want fancy schmancy things I'd change my themes and stuff.

I'm amazed at zealots (Palm and Macs) because people become passionate about material things instead of life. Oh well that's where they sank their money so it must make them happy.

I'm a PPC geek becuase my lifestyle (student and work) requires me to and provides me with efficient tools. It's sorta like magic. If I can do it, I would have it do my dishes instead of manual labor or paying for a dishwasher. (sorry.. too much Potter) :mrgreen:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I was shocked as much by the comments as by the article.
Yeah, I noticed the exact same thing. I expected there would be at least one reader who would at least acknowledge some of the inaccuracies... but to no avail.

It all seems to have that absurd feeling like when you run into someone who is still comparing OSX to Windows 3.1 or Win98
Great analogy!

[lapchinj]

There really isn't much to comment on with regards to the article and I think that everyone here seems to agree that he must have just flown in from Mars because he's really out of touch with what's happening here on earth. Instead of discussing his article it would be interesting to find out who he thinks is the current President of the United States or if he has heard anything about XP or Linux yet.

While I'm not a medical type I think that he must have just plain flipped out when he heard the news about Treo selling its soul to the devil. He is now living in a simpler world where the only PDA is a Palm Pilot and the price of gas is still under 50 cents a gallon.

Ahhh, the joys of simpler times. I'm going to try to find my Palm Pilot and power it up. It had some really neat third party apps. I forget what they were called but they were really neat. :hippy:

Jeff-

[bigkingfun]

There are scads of Windows Mobile devices in an array of form factors, but they ultimately feel sort of similar--and generic--because they run the same OS. (Windows tends to do that to a device: A Dell PC and an HP PC are pretty darn comparable, too.) Can a WinPalm avoid that fate? Is Palm adding any software or OS customizations to make its Windows Mobile experience better?

I don't read this as a knock against the similarity of WM based devices so much as a question of why would anyone choose Palm over any other device that's out there.

Even if it doesn't, it may instantly become the best-designed Windows Mobile phone, but it'll be kind of sad if it's a Treo that delivers a wholly mundane, predictable experience from a software standpoint.

I've never used a Treo - is it that much different than any other current generation Palm? Have they done something with it to make it deliver more than the mundane, predictable experience you would get with any other Palm device?

At one point does the Palm OS's massive library of third-party apps--probably its greatest asset--start to dwindle? Or, to put the question another way, when does Windows Mobile's software library cease to look a little skimpy by comparison?

Isn't the third-party market for Palm software already suffering from problems trying to support the various versions of the Palm OS that different products and manufacturers have used? Besides, even if there is a lot more third-party software for Palm, I'd venture a guess that the number of quality products is pretty similar to Windows Mobile. I've seen a lot of pretty poor software for the Palm (and in fairness, some for Windows Mobile).

I had to laugh at this comment:

I bought a Treo650 a few months back for two reasons: 1. because it had a qwerty keyboard and 2. because it did not run Windows. Even though I have been having problems with it due to its habit of rebooting randomly I would still not replace it with another Windows based mobile.

So this guy would rather have an unreliable device that could reboot anytime than run Windows? :roll:

[PDANEWBIE]

My favorite quote is from the responses to this insane article -

personally i dont use windows even though my computer is windows.only the os is nothing else

What other part of the PC is Windows if just the OS is Windows?

I am sorry I feel like this is a bunch of palm blowhards that are wanting desperately to see the original things stay the same...

I can't believe some of these comments though...

There are scads of Windows Mobile devices in an array of form factors, but they ultimately feel sort of similar--and generic--because they run the same OS. (Windows tends to do that to a device: A Dell PC and an HP PC are pretty darn comparable, too.)

Saying an HP and a Dell's OS feels the same sounds like someone saying a Zire 21 and a Tungsten C feels the same due to operating the same Palm OS. Though I doubt you will ever hear them saying it becomes "generic" about the Palm devices. Also I note he is comparing PDA's to Desktops why not make a true comparrison with other Pocket PC's? Probably because he has not used many.

I am going to chalk this whole article up to someones mindless drivel to wallow in a past best learned from and then moved on from.

I must say I hope I never get so set in my ways that I can't open up my mind to the ideas of change.

[Gerard]

I just had a look at writingonyourpalm.net to see if Jeff Kirvin had swallowed his tie yet. Apparently so. At least, there's no comment yet on this change. He has older articles where he questions the validity and the common sense of Palm-running-Windows Mobile, but ends up discarding this as unfounded rumour. Oops.

Where's Jeff? Now that WM on the Treo 700 is a done deal, will he get one? Or will he stick with the relic which Palm OS has become? Considering another article from his site in which he states that POP mail cannot be left on the server (nPOPw, anyone? How about @Mail, or Qmail3?) as can IMAP, I'm guessing his head is going to stay in the sand on this change too.

[Darius Wey]

I just had a look at writingonyourpalm.net to see if Jeff Kirvin had swallowed his tie yet. Apparently so. At least, there's no comment yet on this change. He has older articles where he questions the validity and the common sense of Palm-running-Windows Mobile, but ends up discarding this as unfounded rumour. Oops.

He's written something over at 1src. (http://www.1src.com/headlines/show/001238.html)

I can't say I agree with what most of what he says, but I won't go into the details. The last thing we need is another Windows Mobile vs. Palm feud. ;)

[Jason Lee]

I just had a look at writingonyourpalm.net to see if Jeff Kirvin had swallowed his tie yet. Apparently so. At least, there's no comment yet on this change. He has older articles where he questions the validity and the common sense of Palm-running-Windows Mobile, but ends up discarding this as unfounded rumour. Oops.

Where's Jeff? Now that WM on the Treo 700 is a done deal, will he get one? Or will he stick with the relic which Palm OS has become? Considering another article from his site in which he states that POP mail cannot be left on the server (nPOPw, anyone? How about @Mail, or Qmail3?) as can IMAP, I'm guessing his head is going to stay in the sand on this change too.

Even the default messaging/inbox app in WM leaves pop mail on the server. I know, I use it.. :) As well as npopw.

[Phillip Dyson]

I find it hard to believe that only business contracts can get a hold of the WM Treo as Jeff states.

HP targets business contracts with some of their devices as well, but regular consumers can usually still get their hands on them.

Heck, my latest laptop purchase was from HP's business line.

I think some of Jeff's statements are him trying to comfort himself that his precious PalmOS still has a vibrant future. It may be true, but for goodness sake take the blinders off.

[Gerard]

From the 1src piece:

Palm is going to sell more, Microsoft is getting help on usability, it's a win/win.

"Microsoft is getting help on usability..." Let's consider the context of this interpretation. Jeff was denying the possibility, or at least the likelihood of Palm adopting WM5, right up until a couple of weeks ago. For the past few years he's been smackinq down WM/PPC users for 'not getting the Zen of Palm.'

The old complaints from Palm execs, ad men, and of course groupies, had it that a) Microsoft's OS was 'bloated,' b) PPC battery life stank, c) the interface was cluttered and too complex to be usable. (Probably missing a couple more laughable bits, but those stand out.) Palm users didn't "need" a file system like PC users have... oh, and like PPC users have. Palm enthusiasts felt that colour at the cost of battery life was unacceptable. And connectivity? Who needed that, when Palm Desktop and Hotsync were so perfect? Multi-tasking? Ridiculous! What kind of freak needed that?!

Now here we are, a few years having passed and almost all of the 'excessive' functionality of the Microsoft way has found its way (as though by accident) into Palm devices. Surprise; users want more, not Zen (i.e.: 'less').

This Treo 700 is just an obvious next step. The 'sameness' or 'boring familiarity' or whatever Palm fans have of late begun to spout when PPC/WM comes up is now part of Palm. Ah, but every PPC manufacturer has always provided custom applications unique to their models, but that's just a fact... and Palm fans aren't big on facts. Take Casio's Mobile Calendar, Mobile E-mailer, and Casio Menu for early examples. Or how about the iTask button and application in all iPAQ models for years; licensed from Gene Knight of GigaBar/GigaTask fame? Is that the same as what a user finds on a Dell. an Asus, or any other WM device? Of course not. And there are Compaq Audio and Dell's Microphone applets to contrast, offering gain control for recordings - but of course most Palm users don't want to record audio, so that's of little interest, right? And adding Block Recognizer to all the models of PPC in the past few years, is that not something which Palm users should like, being able to input using their crazy custom alphabet? The list of adaptations provided by OEMs and distributors is of course a lot longer, but that's boring. Better to actually use the products and see what they can do... but again, not something Palm fans are likely to try. Easier to throw stones without a proper look, with the screen of a WM device actually turned on.

So here we are with the new flagship of Palm bearing the Windows logo. Palm sales have steadily dwindled, and to anyone paying attention this merge with WM should have been obvious, especially considering the Cobalt fiasco and more recently the announcement of a very, very distant release of Plinux. Personally I wonder if that'll even happen, but that's just an opinion, nothing I'd call a fact. The fact is, consumers will soon be able to buy a WM Treo 700, and whether or not Jeff Kirvin and other pundits of the Palm camp want to eat crow, or to do what seems to be happening with this 1src article - which is to declare that all Microsoft's base are belong to them - is of no consequence. The fact is, Palm as it was is a dying thing. Part of it is now pwned by a browser developer. The guts of the top model are now running the competition's software. It could only look worse for morale if the Treo 700 ran Symbian.

Whatever flavour OS Palm devices run in the next few years, it's unlikely to be the limited and now over-burdened Palm Garnet, unless they insist on milking that and selling ever-more-behind-the-times devices. Cobalt might have changed that, I don't know. Some of the early reports seemed to indicate a rather nice compromise between the old and familiar with some more advanced tools, such as what we PPC users have had for years. Since it looks unlikely ever to run in primetime, that's all moot. Palm as it was, is dying. Palm, the new version (whatever that's to be) is emerging. It's not an evolution, but a revolution, and not one many Palm users seem to be comfortable seeing.

[dazz]

It really is amazing that these Palm hangers-on do not see that they are speaking out both sides of their mouths! One of the old arguments was about PPC running on more than one processor, so you had to install the right version. Now they say there is too much "sameness". :roll:

Gerard, you said it well; the duality of people like Jeff is simply astonding. It's almost embarrassing stuff to read. :wink:

I've been a fan of the OS previously, but there just is not anything of interest there anymore. Windows Mobile is just soooo much better.