Loox 720 vs. Palm LifeDrive Comparison

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://forum.solopalmari.com/viewtopic.php?t=3098' target='_blank'>http://forum.solopalmari.com/viewtopic.php?t=3098</a><br /><br /></div><i>"The LifeDrive, commercialized from little weeks, is the last Pda produced from palmOne. Between the ' armi' best ones, it boasts microdrive integrated from 4Gb and width connettività, guaranteed from WiFi, Bluetooth and ' Drive Mode ', thanks to which whichever PC recognizes the device like pen drive a Usb. The Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket LOOX 720 is considered, to various months from its arrival, one of best the PocketPc existing: Vga screen, double quantity protocol wireless, slot Cf-Sd I/O, Usb Host, camera double integrated. Between these models of tip we have imagined a virtual duel, a synthetic comparison (to which it will follow more deepened book review) that only implicitly it recalls also the old one contesa between PalmOs or PocketPc. The question to which we will try to give answer is: which of the two it will be palmare more within from the market, in the next few months?"</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20050620-LooxLifedrive.jpg" /><br /><br />This poor English translation, <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://forum.solopalmari.com/viewtopic.php?t=3098&amp;langpair=it|en&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;prev=/language_tools">available here</a>, is nevertheless an interesting comparative look between the two units. I think the above screenshot makes it abundantly clear that VGA is the future, and considering the 720 has a CF slot, I'd much rather have a 720 + a large CF card or Microdrive as opposed to a LifeDrive.

[DaleReeck]

I love translations. "All your base are belong to us" :D

I don't know if its fair to compare the two. If your are a Palm guy, you'd probably want the Lifedrive. If you are a PPC guy, you would want the Loox 720 - which, incidently is what I have :D

If you have neither and are new to PDA's and need to pick one, I would think it comes down more to PPC vs Palm than it would Loox vs Lifedrive. Picking the desired platform is the more important issue over the specific hardware IMO.

[Phillip Dyson]

I think that these types of comparisons are interesting to read. Unfortunately, once some puts "Out of box" as a stipulation, one side gets deflated pretty quickly.

[Xad]

That's an automatic Google "translation"... :)

[Don't Panic!]

They don't sell these things (LOOX) in the US do they? I was interested in the very first Loox to come out but not interested enough to pay the extra costs of importing one to the US.

[DaleReeck]

They don't sell these things (LOOX) in the US do they? I was interested in the very first Loox to come out but not interested enough to pay the extra costs of importing one to the US.

I got mine from Expansys USA. No extra import cost required. It was $499 plus I paid for overnight shipping.

I like the device, probably the best one I ever had. SD and CF slots, WiFi, bluetooth v1.2, consumer IR (with the port on the top where it should be), VGA, pretty fast (520MHZ processor). Its also been very stable despite lots of software installed, no annoying problems or driver errors when using the WiFi and bluetooth. It also has a 1.2MP camera, which works decent outdoors, but useless indoors. Its got the best quality and loudest built in speaker I've ever heard.

[lapchinj]

"The LifeDrive... is the last Pda produced from palmOne..."...
Is this supposed to say 'last' or "latest'? Because if it's the last then it's a moot point what DaleReeck says about being only a choice between platforms for newbies. Which IMHO there is a moot point anyway :wink: .


I'd much rather have a 720 + a large CF card or Microdrive as opposed to a LifeDrive.
Me Too :mrgreen: But I'm really happy with my Dell X50v also :mrgreen:

Jeff-

[krypticide]

I saw the LifeDrive at the airport once, and it was hideous. It has a bevel on the rim, which makes the device even more of a brick than it would otherwise be, and doesn't seem to add much volume to pack stuff in. In any case, after having gone VGA, I can't go back.

[hamishmacdonald]

You know what this comparison did make me think, though? "The icons on the Pocket PC suck."

In terms of functionality, of course I like my current Windows Mobile device (Asus MyPal A730W) more than anything I've used before.

But in terms of graphic design, I think the Newton and the Palm OSes both have a better understanding of icons: They should be immediately identifiable. A hard black outlined iconic object is much easier to see than a soft VGA illustration.

I found the same thing back in my Mac days, when moving from OS 9 to OS X: suddenly the icons became pictures, and I had to think every time I looked for an application or a file. And as web usability expert Steve Krug says in his book, the first rule of interface design should be, as the title says, "Don't Make Me Think!"

[Janak Parekh]

"The LifeDrive... is the last Pda produced from palmOne..."...
Is this supposed to say 'last' or "latest'? Because if it's the last then it's a moot point what DaleReeck says about being only a choice between platforms for newbies. Which IMHO there is a moot point anyway :wink: .
Well, remember it's a bad translation. I don't know the source language, so I'm not sure. :P

--janak

[lapchinj]

...Well, remember it's a bad translation. I don't know the source language, so I'm not sure. :P--janak
I was also thinking alone these lines and I'm sure we would have all heard something from someoen but I had to ask just in case I missed something along the way today.

Jeff-

[mangochutneyman]

I think the above screenshot makes it abundantly clear that VGA is the future, and considering the 720 has a CF slot, I'd much rather have a 720 + a large CF card or Microdrive as opposed to a LifeDrive.

You could also argue that the future is also greater integrated storage. In this regard PalmOne is taking the initiative with devices like the Lifedrive. Unfortunately, these 1st gen Lifedrives imo have HD capacities that are too small. The first LD prototypes had 5 GB HD's but Palmone had to switch to the 4 GB micro-HD b/c of performance concerns. It is quite conceivable that the next gen LD's will have 10-20 GB HD capacities (hopefully also running cobalt) that will make them worthy alternatives to ipods etc for mobile storage mediums...

[Duncan]

I think the above screenshot makes it abundantly clear that VGA is the future, and considering the 720 has a CF slot, I'd much rather have a 720 + a large CF card or Microdrive as opposed to a LifeDrive.

You could also argue that the future is also greater integrated storage. In this regard PalmOne is taking the initiative with devices like the Lifedrive.

Why? Buy a device with an integrated hard-drive and you have two problems: 1) You are stuck with that size of hard-drive; and 2) The device needs to be bigger to allow for ventilation. Buy a device with a CF slot and you have a slimmer PDA with the ability to upgrade your disk size over time. All the advantages with one of the disadvantages.

[Kowalski]

i have never liked the idea of carying a miniature hard drive in my pocket. its good that 4GB CF cards are not very expensive today.
solid state forever :!:

[mangochutneyman]

I think the above screenshot makes it abundantly clear that VGA is the future, and considering the 720 has a CF slot, I'd much rather have a 720 + a large CF card or Microdrive as opposed to a LifeDrive.

You could also argue that the future is also greater integrated storage. In this regard PalmOne is taking the initiative with devices like the Lifedrive.

Why? Buy a device with an integrated hard-drive and you have two problems: 1) You are stuck with that size of hard-drive; and 2) The device needs to be bigger to allow for ventilation. Buy a device with a CF slot and you have a slimmer PDA with the ability to upgrade your disk size over time. All the advantages with one of the disadvantages.

There are couple things wrongs with your assumptions though. First is that CF storage accessories will always be competitively priced with solutions found in integrated devices. I don't think you can assume that. Second, you rely on CF as a sustainable interface standard for the future. IMO, in the future you will see fewer devices with CF, not more. In addition, I think you will see microHD integration in many more devices like mobiles, gaming devices, etc which will definitely lead to cost efficiencies for OEM's. Thus, microHD's should become much more plentiful, ubiquitious and cheaper to integrate into devices. This should also push the technoogical barrier as cornice, toshiba's .85 drive etc have illustrated allowing thinner devies etc. Finally there is an arguement for simplicity. Integrated solutions like the iPod, Gamrin gps pdas, etc have shown that often the best solutions are the one with the best integrated solutions.

[jlp]

I think the above screenshot makes it abundantly clear that VGA is the future, and considering the 720 has a CF slot, I'd much rather have a 720 + a large CF card or Microdrive as opposed to a LifeDrive.

You could also argue that the future is also greater integrated storage. In this regard PalmOne is taking the initiative with devices like the Lifedrive.

Why? Buy a device with an integrated hard-drive and you have two problems: 1) You are stuck with that size of hard-drive; and 2) The device needs to be bigger to allow for ventilation. Buy a device with a CF slot and you have a slimmer PDA with the ability to upgrade your disk size over time. All the advantages with one of the disadvantages.

There are couple things wrongs with your assumptions though. First is that CF storage accessories will always be competitively priced with solutions found in integrated devices. I don't think you can assume that. Second, you rely on CF as a sustainable interface standard for the future. IMO, in the future you will see fewer devices with CF, not more.

Reality proves you wrong: this same argument of yours came out 2 or more years ago, on these boards, when 1 GB SD cards were announced; and they took more time to come on the market than expected as well. Then you only had 4-5 devices with CF card slots: ipaq 2200, the Toshiba e750, the Asus MyPal a620, the FSC PocketLoox 600 and the Axim x5. Right now every manufacturer makes their top of the line with both CF and SD slots and even HP has 2 lines and 4 models, Dell has 3, FSC has 3 too (710, 718 and 720), Fujitsu has 2, Toshiba has 1 (e830), etc. That's at least 13 devices, or almost 3 times as many!!! not less.

Furthermore, 2-3 years ago you only had 2 Microdrives on the market: 340 MB and 1 GB, flash cards came in up to 1 GB versions and did cost a lot more than microdrives.

Nowadays, Hitachi (ex IBM Storage division), Seagate and a few others also make microdrives in so much higher capacity than SD cards: you can regularly find 4GB flash CF cards from many vendors at many different transfer speeds; Sandisk, PQI, Kingston, SimpleTech and other less known manufacturers have them. Likewise you can find 4, 5 and 6 GB microdrives from 2-3 makers. Pretec even has 12 GB CF flash cards.

What about SD cards? you're very lucky if you can find the 2 GB SD card from the unique manufacturer Sandisk; AND this card was announced LAST OCTOBER for a Nov 04 release!!

Just click on those many PPCT links to that card, only to see 3 out of 4 vendors have been out of stock for the last 6+ months and the one that has some charges $390 for them!!!

The days of CF cards (and slots 8) ) are very bright and shiny for the long foreseeable future!!

:devilboy:

[mangochutneyman]

Reality proves you wrong: this same argument of yours came out 2 or more years ago, on these boards, when 1 GB SD cards were announced; and they took more time than expected as well. Then you only had 4-5 devices with CF card slots: ipaq 2200, the Toshiba e750, the Asus MyPal a620, the FSC PocketLoox 600 and the Axim x5. Right now every manufacturer makes their top of the line with both CF and SD slots and even HP has 2 lines and 4 models, Dell has 3, FSC has 3 too (710, 718 and 720), Fujitsu has 2, Toshiba has 1 (e830), etc. That's at least 13 devices, or almost 3 times as many!!! not less.


That doesn't prove anything imo. In fact I find the whole CF vs integration argument fairly amusing. Why are so many users here opposed to geater functionality integration into handhelds here? Isn't this what many WM users found soo annoying and wrong about PalmOne devices? :? Or is the criticism here precisely because it is PalmOne that is trying to innovate for once? :roll:

Look, there's fairly strong rumors that Dell's working on a next gen WM05 Axim with integrated HD. I willing to bet it won't have CF slot...

[Duncan]

Reality proves you wrong: this same argument of yours came out 2 or more years ago, on these boards, when 1 GB SD cards were announced; and they took more time than expected as well. Then you only had 4-5 devices with CF card slots: ipaq 2200, the Toshiba e750, the Asus MyPal a620, the FSC PocketLoox 600 and the Axim x5. Right now every manufacturer makes their top of the line with both CF and SD slots and even HP has 2 lines and 4 models, Dell has 3, FSC has 3 too (710, 718 and 720), Fujitsu has 2, Toshiba has 1 (e830), etc. That's at least 13 devices, or almost 3 times as many!!! not less.


That doesn't prove anything imo. In fact I find the whole CF vs integration argument fairly amusing. Why are so many users here opposed to geater functionality integration into handhelds here? Isn't this what many WM users found soo annoying and wrong about PalmOne devices? :? Or is the criticism here precisely because it is PalmOne that is trying to innovate for once? :roll:

Look, there's fairly strong rumors that Dell's working on a next gen WM05 Axim with integrated HD. I willing to bet it won't have CF slot...

Except that it ISN'T greater integration. Installing a fixed HD and losing a flexible CF slot is taking an unnecessary step backwards. Easy for Palm to do since they've never used CF slots - but a huge mistake for PPC manufacturers.

All a PPC maker has to do to trump this is bundle a CF HD with a CF enabled PPC. Instantly they trump Palm. I believe Toshiba already did this with their Asia only e550.

Not to mention, of course, that the HD in a LifeDrive is rather awkwardly 'integrated' while any CF card or HD inserted into a PPC is immediately integrated into the file structure of the PPC - able to be used for anything that the integrated memory can be used for - storage or programs.

Sure - you can buy a LifeDrive - have a device that has a 4GB HD inside. Then you'll have PDA that comes close to my Loox 720 with solid state 4GB CF card installed. Meanwhile when those 6, 8 and 10GB CF HDs come out - and I upgrade - I'll have the superior storage. :)

[lapchinj]

...Look, there's fairly strong rumors that Dell's working on a next gen WM05 Axim with integrated HD. I willing to bet it won't have CF slot...
Yeah, maybe manufacturer will add integrated HD to their PDA's but I don't think that they will illiminate or be a replacement for card slots. Rather I think that they will be sold as an added feature.

These card slots do more than just hold cards. They double as a base for pluggable addon devices. The versatility of card slots is well known. Plug in a GPS, barcode reader, modem, nic, etc. Can't do that with an integrated HD. But I would love both in a PDA (if the HD can be easily upgraded).

I can also see HD's being produced to be plugged into card slots before being built into the PDA. I just can't see being stuck with a 5gb HD for instance when CF cards are at 12gb.

Jeff-

[Kowalski]

@lapchinj: you say maybe manufacturers will make pdas with integrated HD AND dual slots? you have two wireless options, even USB host capability today, and what is the point of having two expansion slots if you dont have to upgrade memory???

Duncan, i totaly agree with you, but i think this is a marketing move. most people will say "wow the device has a harddrive" and they want to make an impression that a device with an integrated harddrive will have lots of storage for music and movies. on the other hand most of the people are not aware of shortcommings of microdrives

@mangochutneyman: i dont find the integration of a harddrive an grater functionality. in fact it is going a step backwards! if i have a free CF slot, than i will decide if i will use a solid state or HD storage, and i can remove the card or replace with another

[lapchinj]

@lapchinj: you say maybe manufacturers will make pdas with integrated HD AND dual slots? you have two wireless options, even USB host capability today, and what is the point of having two expansion slots if you dont have to upgrade memory???
Well I said that maybe manufacturers will add HD's but that doesn't mean that since a HD was added that they could remove the card slots. I also prefer silicon as opposed to a HD. But if they did put one they would market the HD as an added feature not a replacement for card slots.

Why do I call it an added feature? For me I install all my applications to the SD card this basically makes that card 'non-removable'. Now when I had my single slot hp4150 I didn't have a free slot (for any toys or map cards etc). When I moved recently to the x50v the problem went away because I now have a free CF slot. So if I was given a choice between two PPC's and one of them had a HD I would take that one. But in either case I wouldn't buy another PPC unless it had at least 2 card slots. Even if I was offered 4 HD's a one slot.

I believe very strongly that even if a manufacture start installing HD's in their products cards are not going to dissapeare because of that.

Even my Sharp SL5000 which is a couple of years old had two slots and they still do.

Jeff-

[Prevost]

Frankly, it cannot be read. :roll:

[myuser]

I am Italian and I can translate some pieces of this article if you need... :wink:

[Prevost]

Ufff...buddy, thank you, but I'm affraid it needs to be translated again completely :mrgreen:

[shindullin]

As the owner of a tired, but still beautiful GENIOe, I can attest to the versatility of dual slots. Having them really does extend the life of your device. That said, who cares? HD vs Solid state is a silly argument. It's all about different strokes for different folks. If you don't expect to keep your device for more than two years or so, HD's are good storage option. They're cheaper and should last you two years easy. On the other hand, if you keep your device (like I have) for three years or more because you have three kids and a mortgage, going from 128 to 256 and someday in the future, 1 gig, is invaluable as your removable media becomes your messy file cabinet and the other slot is still open for accessories and temporary cards. If I had the money, and I didn't think my wife would kill me for doing it, I'd get both just for kicks. ;)