HP bashing and ensuing discussion.

[NLS]

wow how nice!

erm... NOT

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
one more Goofy HP product

keep up people "love them"; it keeps them alive to continue making stupid products

0X :devilboy:

[szamot]

wow how nice!

erm... NOT

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
one more Goofy HP product

keep up people "love them"; it keeps them alive to continue making stupid products

0X :devilboy:

That's what I have been saying, if we keep going WOW every time a scrap of garbage falls of the HP "design" table they will keep producing mediocre devices in hopes of satisfying mediocre minds. We are our worse enemies.

[NLS]

why "unfortunately"?
ah you are called ipaqman, figures :D

for me there no such thing in open market... they suck, I'll choose something else, as simple as that

to put it in perspective, LOOX 720 is everything I wanted from a PDA, 4700 is far from that, I got the first; MDA4 is probably what I wanted from a Phone-PDA, this cr*p or 6300-something is far from that, I'll get MDA4 (if I am out in the market for PDA-phone - which I am not)

the "perfect" PDA+phone for me (today) would be an MDA4 with even better battery, CF AND SD, bundled with a very smart bluetooth hands-free, that allows for: Caller-ID, SMS reading ON it directly, other information messages (MSN too), vibration, normal ringtones as set on the main device (including wavs/MP3 etc.), speakerphone (yes I am still talking about the hands free) - this is the only way I would bear to have such a big "phone" ...we are going there fast (HP not, of course), since there is already a hands-free doing half of the above and a PDA-Phone doing 90% of the above... late 2005 probably when we'll have something like this (and we all know what brand this will NOT be)

[NLS]

240x240... hehehe 57600 pixels hohohohoho

so Palm-yesterday from HP... so HP from HP

I know of MANY smartphones (not claiming to be PDA at all) with better resolution

will somebody kill the HP PDA Dept. manager or what?
(when there are still sheep customers that would buy anything from HP, then no)

[NLS]

ah... so some people begin to realise what I am saying for years (since Compaq 36xx days)

better late than never

[NLS]

I won't ask why :twisted:

your money anyway, your choice

One more "hit" from the company that had the only 4096 colour PocketPC when all other had 64K, never said so directly to their customers, the only company that made a PocketPC with NO expansion except sleeves when the majority of the rest had dual expansion slots already (and when the company managed to add SD on the huge device their customers partied all night), the only company that sold PocketPC with non-removable battery when all others had removable and extended versions, the only company that their once top-model was much bugier than their low end, the only company that so provokingly REALLY dumps a device when the next comes out, the only company that manages to sell crap inventions that if they had the label "iTaiwan" nobody would give them a second look, but with THEIR label they manage to make people like them, the only company that manages to sell under-featured devices at premium price and manages to have huge penetration in the Enterprise and chain stores, brainwashing people from all sides.

(just to remind the past that never changed radicaly anyway)

I wonder what will be their next design... a grayscale PocketPC with 32MB RAM, xD slot and a new HP invention, something called "bar code reader"? I am sure with "HP" on it many of you people will love it.

It's getting embarasing.

[IpaqMan2]

why "unfortunately"?
ah you are called ipaqman, figures :D
for me there no such thing in open market... they suck, I'll choose something else, as simple as that...

In my line of work I deal more with PDAs in one week than most people would deal probably in their life time, that also includes IT administrators who deploy PDAs in their work environment and my opinions I offer are still mine own, but I can honestly say there is a lot of hard facts to back it up. Thumb boards is where it's going for any smart phone device that allows you to check and respond to emails and or browse the web - plain and simple. While at my work we do see Pocket PCs / smart phones with out thumb boards the numbers are insignificant in compared to the Blackberries, Treo's, and even Pocket PCs (mainly the XDA IIIs) which do have thumb boards.


... (if I am out in the market for PDA-phone - which I am not)...
Than I guess this topic isn't or even this thread is for you.

[Paragon]

I won't ask why :twisted:

your money anyway, your choice

One more "hit" from the company that had the only 4096 colour PocketPC when all other had 64K, never said so directly to their customers, the only company that made a PocketPC with NO expansion except sleeves when the majority of the rest had dual expansion slots already (and when the company managed to add SD on the huge device their customers partied all night), the only company that sold PocketPC with non-removable battery when all others had removable and extended versions, the only company that their once top-model was much bugier than their low end, the only company that so provokingly REALLY dumps a device when the next comes out, the only company that manages to sell crap inventions that if they had the label "iTaiwan" nobody would give them a second look, but with THEIR label they manage to make people like them, the only company that manages to sell under-featured devices at premium price and manages to have huge penetration in the Enterprise and chain stores, brainwashing people from all sides.

(just to remind the past that never changed radicaly anyway)

I wonder what will be their next design... a grayscale PocketPC with 32MB RAM, xD slot and a new HP invention, something called "bar code reader"? I am sure with "HP" on it many of you people will love it.

It's getting embarasing.

Well said NLS!

I would agree as well with the poster who said that there were some good HP products. I have a 4150 that I will never dispose of. I also had a 2200 which was excellent, and the 3650 is what really set us all down this path....but in between there sure was/is a lot of iCrap!

Dave

[Ed Hansberry]

I won't ask why :twisted:

your money anyway, your choice

One more "hit" from the company that had the only 4096 colour PocketPC when all other had 64K, never said so directly to their customers, the only company that made a PocketPC with NO expansion except sleeves when the majority of the rest had dual expansion slots already (and when the company managed to add SD on the huge device their customers partied all night), the only company that sold PocketPC with non-removable battery when all others had removable and extended versions, the only company that their once top-model was much bugier than their low end, the only company that so provokingly REALLY dumps a device when the next comes out, the only company that manages to sell crap inventions that if they had the label "iTaiwan" nobody would give them a second look, but with THEIR label they manage to make people like them, the only company that manages to sell under-featured devices at premium price and manages to have huge penetration in the Enterprise and chain stores, brainwashing people from all sides.
Who are you ranting about? HP had built in CF in the 500 series Jornada and only 12 bit color screens, and the 560 had a removable battery, though the 520 and 540 didn't. Compaq had 12 bit screens too. they added SD in the fall of 2001 with the 3800. Who, by then, had DUAL memory cards? Who has it now? My 2 year old HP 2210 has dual slots but my new PDA2k doesn't.

It sounds like you are wrapping all of HP and Compaq into one mix them formulating a rant by picking out the things you don't like. :roll:

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

the only company that made a PocketPC with NO expansion except sleeves when the majority of the rest had dual expansion slots already (and when the company managed to add SD on the huge device their customers partied all night)
Technically you're referring to Compaq right? If I recall correctly, the iPaq 36xx/37xx line was competing against HP's 520 series Jornada and the Casio EM-500/E-125. In any case, remind me which of those product lines supported "dual expansion slots" because:

1) I only seemed to remember that the E125 supported CF and the EM500 only supported MMC/SD
2) the next iPaq line (38xx) did support SD.

the only company that so provokingly REALLY dumps a device when the next comes out
Ever hear of Toshiba?

the only company that manages to sell crap inventions that if they had the label "iTaiwan" nobody would give them a second look
Like what for example? I can't recall anything that would resemble an invention w/ exception for the fingerprint scanner and I was just in CompUSA and saw that both Microsoft and APC are now selling separate fingerprint modules for the PC... seems like this technology is getting a "second look" I would say.

But you do mention INVENTIONS (plural), which means there were multiple? What were the others?

manages to sell under-featured devices at premium price and manages to have huge penetration in the Enterprise and chain stores, brainwashing people from all sides.
I don't know about that. My previous 2215 came at a competitive price and was as fully featured of a PPC that I could find at that time. As for my current 4700, the only complaint I can think of is that it doesn't sport 128MB RAM, but neither did any other competing devices at the time I picked it up. In addition, I have BT / WiFi / Dual-Slots / 128MB ROM / 4" VGA screen...

How is that underfeatured? Where is the brainwashing?

I wonder what will be their next design... a grayscale PocketPC with 32MB RAM, xD slot and a new HP invention, something called "bar code reader"? I am sure with "HP" on it many of you people will love it.
So you're implying that future models will degrade in color, reduce in memory, and introduce a memory slot that no one wants or uses?

My memory is foggy. Can you tell me which previous HP/Compaq PPC has followed those trend in the past?

It's getting embarasing.
Well, perhaps we should try sticking to the facts. What do you say? ;)

[shawnc]

will somebody kill the HP PDA Dept. manager or what?
(when there are still sheep customers that would buy anything from HP, then no)

I'm just curious about something. Are you a moron or simply having a bad day :?:

Edit - Never mind. I just read some of your other posts on this thread. I've got it figured out.

[NLS]

it's 4:20 in the morning here (just got back from a Greek night), so I am to tired (plus won't bother) to answer in detail

people who like them, welcome

I know my 720 is what you'll probably get in 2006, but by then I will probably have something else which HP MIGHT make in 2007

cheers

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I know my 720 is what you'll probably get in 2006, but by then I will probably have something else which HP MIGHT make in 2007
Are you referring to the Fujitsu-Loox 720? If you are, then I commend you. That is indeed a very nice device and something worthy of consideration for anyone desiring a fully-loaded VGA PocketPC.

However, just to clarify, I would never change from my HP hx4700 to the FS720 model. Factually speaking, while the 720 has more RAM, USB capabilities, and a camera, the 4700 has the fastest processor of any current PPC, the largest screen available, a dedicated GPU, magnesium-alloy casing, more ROM (though I'd admittedly prefer more RAM), while costing $50 less.

Personally, with exception for the RAM, the additional features on the hx4700 are more desirable to me than the camera, USB-hosting, and the extra $50 hit to my pocketbook. ..and in that light, I see nothing here that concludes the 4700 is "underfeatured" and "overpriced".

Alas, what is important to me does not apply to other members of this community. We all have our own individual preferences. Perhaps we can all take a moment to remember that before we start trashing an entire brand and an entire group of individuals. ;)

[DaleReeck]

However, just to clarify, I would never change from my HP hx4700 to the FS720 model. Factually speaking, while the 720 has more RAM, USB capabilities, and a camera, the 4700 has the fastest processor of any current PPC, the largest screen available, a dedicated GPU, magnesium-alloy casing, more ROM (though I'd admittedly prefer more RAM), while costing $50 less.

Personally, with exception for the RAM, the additional features on the hx4700 are more desirable to me than the camera, USB-hosting, and the extra $50 hit to my pocketbook. ..and in that light, I see nothing here that concludes the 4700 is "underfeatured" and "overpriced".

Alas, what is important to me does not apply to other members of this community. We all have our own individual preferences. Perhaps we can all take a moment to remember that before we start trashing an entire brand and an entire group of individuals. ;)

If you get the PPCTechs upgrade, then the iPaq 4700 would have 128MB RAM - making it close to perfection for a non-phone PDA IMO. I still can't get over how gorgeous that screen is :) Some might argue that a camera would be needed to make it perfect, but, while I wouldn't mind it having a camera, adding a crappy camera (and lets face it, all these PDA/phone cameras are crappy) wouldn't add much.

[NLS]

However, just to clarify, I would never change from my HP hx4700 to the FS720 model. Factually speaking, while the 720 has more RAM, USB capabilities, and a camera, the 4700 has the fastest processor of any current PPC, the largest screen available, a dedicated GPU, magnesium-alloy casing, more ROM (though I'd admittedly prefer more RAM), while costing $50 less.

I dare you in fact SHOW me the CPU difference (btw a little registry entry does allow 720 to go to 624MHz in auto mode), because when I checked my 720 by side with both a 4700 and a 50v they were both feeling... slower (!) - don't ask me why.

Largest screen (and a huge device behind it) is a minus for me. Means less DPI. After all 4700 and 720 have the two BEST screens in quality (in fact testers say they are the same screen, different size).

The dedicated GPU is a nice marketing trick for now (and if you ask me, since I KNOW how HP "backs up" it's devices when months pass, it will REMAIN a marketing trick). Now if there is a video player able to take into advantage the GPU (which yes I would like to have just for the tech data of it), then in fact this wouldn't mean ANY realistic difference in our VGA resolution (720 is ALREADY more than fast in playing 640x480 video more than 100% - i.e. not loosing frames etc.).

Alloy case yes, I would like, but not with the accompanying weight (have you held 720 in your hand? esp. 4700 on one hand and 720 on the other... then test putting 4700 in one shirt pocket -if it fits hahahaha- and 720 in the other... you won't believe the difference).

More ROM = ZERO (ABSOLUTE zero) to me. 128MB RAM is about 1000 times more useful. Trust me, I have 58MB RAM free in my 128MB device (which would mean sub-zero if I had 4700), 8.2MB free in my ROM storage, 29.3MB free in my 1GB SD (!) and this WITHOUT any audio/video data, which I prefer to store in my 512MB CF, until I decide 2GB SD is cheap enough. So, how much is the PPCTechs 128MB RAM upgrade for 4700?

$50 in the pocket... kidding? I am out of work for the last months (tough times for IT) and still $50 is unmeasurable. After all prices vary VERY much, I got my LOOX720 WITH Piel Frama leather for 500 euro (do the math). So how much is PPCTechs upgrade again?

Sorry people, nope, 4700 is not even third for me. But that shouldn't stop you for believing it's the PDA of dreams (since you own it after all) - it's a (mostly) free world.

This is loosely related and interesting:

http://www.clieuk.co.uk/al.shtml

[NLS]

I'm just curious about something. Are you a moron or simply having a bad day :?:

Bad months, not day, but this is not related to my answers here. I trust this is your best in "argumentation". After all there is a president somewhere with IQ less than a chimp, why not such a PDA user?

Sorry, I couldn't find the middle-finger-up in the emoticons (OX doesn't cut it), so I cannot answer properly.

PS. better end this here

[NLS]

No doubt, the rz1715 might be the only HP model that I truly have no explanation for! :roll:

But with these specs on the latest HP PPCPE devices, assuming that bluetooth will be included, I do believe there's a potential place in the market for them.

Two questions:

1) You mean you have explanation for ALL other HP models I can list? (note that I might hold you to your words and ask you directly and in detail in another thread :D )
(let's consider for a while "enough sheep to buy it" not an explanation for the existance of a model - let's talk for other explanations)

2) If bluetooth is NOT included (to be honest I believe it will be included but anyway... usually HP is worse than even *I* expect them to be), anyway, if i's not included, what is the potential place in the market for the device? (assuming that I accept that WITH bluetooth there is a place in the market - which I don't, but that's another story)

thank you

[NLS]

I get your line of thought but can you answer me this?

Why an HW65k/67k and not an MDA2/MDA3/P910 etc. or hell even Treo?

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Largest screen (and a huge device behind it) is a minus for me. Means less DPI.
It's all about personal preference. Yes, for many other people, the larger screen is a minus (though you're the first person I've seen to state "less DPI" as a minus for a 4" VGA screen). For me, it is a huge plus and one of the biggest reasons why I bought the 4700.

The dedicated GPU is a nice marketing trick for now (and if you ask me, since I KNOW how HP "backs up" it's devices when months pass, it will REMAIN a marketing trick). Now if there is a video player able to take into advantage the GPU (which yes I would like to have just for the tech data of it), then in fact this wouldn't mean ANY realistic difference in our VGA resolution (720 is ALREADY more than fast in playing 640x480 video more than 100% - i.e. not loosing frames etc.).
Well saying it's a "marketing trick" seems to imply that the GPU is not real. The GPU is real which is why BetaPlayer benchmarks the Dell x50v, hx4700, and Toshiba 800 series faster than any other PPC. But you bring up a great point, for the videos you play, you get great playback. But this is also highly dependent on the video bitrate you're using. I do actually have a number of short videos that are encoded at around 1300-1500Kbps (music videos), 30fps (not 24), w/ some videos that require smooth-resizing for full-screen playback (GPU intensive).

But again (for the 2nd time), it's all about personal preference.

Alloy case yes, I would like, but not with the accompanying weight (have you held 720 in your hand? esp. 4700 on one hand and 720 on the other...
Actually, I can believe the difference, because I moved from a HP2215 which was a much smaller and lighter device. This is the trade-off. Size and weight for a larger screen. But again (for the 3rd time), it's all about personal preference.

More ROM = ZERO (ABSOLUTE zero) to me. 128MB RAM is about 1000 times more useful.
You didn't read my post. I already stated that for me, the extra RAM is a minus with the 4700.

Sorry people, nope, 4700 is not even third for me.
That's ok. There's no need to apologize for your preferences, but at the same time, there's no need to trash the decision of others.

Once again, it's all about personal preference.

[shawnc]

I'm just curious about something. Are you a moron or simply having a bad day :?:

Bad months, not day, but this is not related to my answers here. I trust this is your best in "argumentation". After all there is a president somewhere with IQ less than a chimp, why not such a PDA user?

Sorry, I couldn't find the middle-finger-up in the emoticons (OX doesn't cut it), so I cannot answer properly.

PS. better end this here

You missed my point. I wasn't making an argument since this isn't an issue that really concerns me. However, given the current situation, I just thought your comment about killing the HP person was either moronic or the result of someone having a bad day. From where I sit, those were the only two choices. As I indicated, after reading the entire thread, the answer bacame obvious.

No problem about the lack of a middle finger emoticon, I pretty much expected that that would be the best you could likely offer as a retort. Again, some things are just so obvious. Hope next month gets better for you....

[NLS]

(though you're the first person I've seen to state "less DPI" as a minus for a 4" VGA screen). For me, it is a huge plus and one of the biggest reasons why I bought the 4700.

Less DPI IS a fact right?
And although yes I guess personal preference is the reason beyond reasons and nobody can argument, nevertheless can you tell me why would someone (erm, you) prefer a 4" screen than a 3.6" screen on a PDA? (the key phrase is "on a PDA")

Well saying it's a "marketing trick" seems to imply that the GPU is not real. The GPU is real which is why BetaPlayer benchmarks the Dell x50v, hx4700, and Toshiba 800 series faster than any other PPC. But you bring up a great point, for the videos you play, you get great playback. But this is also highly dependent on the video bitrate you're using. I do actually have a number of short videos that are encoded at around 1300-1500Kbps (music videos), 30fps (not 24), w/ some videos that require smooth-resizing for full-screen playback (GPU intensive).

No, seems to imply that it came cheap to them, they won't bother optimising the OS for the GPU or anything, nor pressure any developer in fact use it (to much trouble for a device that the company themselves will have killed in six months - like they do for years).

1.3-1.5Mbps are fine on LOOX 720, in fact the guy in the article I linked above, mentions 1.8 is fine on LOOX 720. If this ISN'T enough, then ok I don't know what is. I understand that having a GPU is good but I would EASILY trade it for 128MB RAM.

You didn't read my post. I already stated that for me, the extra RAM is a minus with the 4700.

No I read you all right, it's just that 64MB on the best-of-the-best 2005 device of the biggest PDA vendor, is NOT a minus, it's more of a killer.
Can you really tell me how would I even own one when as I said I have 58MB free on my 720? This means -6MB, or best case scenario: no available RAM to run anything. Or I had to limit my installation habbits (word "limit" and phrase "best-of-the-best of the biggest PDA vendor" doesn't go together in my mind... I wonder how they fit on yours)

That's ok. There's no need to apologize for your preferences, but at the same time, there's no need to trash the decision of others.

Indeed but when I see this company going SO well with PDA, when their PDA (aside from the personal preference you keep mentioning) are generally mediocre AND expensive for their features (AND don't get me started with the company support which I know first hand), it's Deja Vu all over again, like when I was helplessly watching Wintel rulling the world over MUCH better platforms 15 years ago. It's a pity when companies that could REALLY GIVE to this competition, tomorrow go out of this market just because of the sheer mass of HP (happened before, will happen again) and nothing to do with quality and features.
It's like the Matrix or something.

Anyway "let's all get along".

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Everyone, this thread has gotten derailed quite a bit and I apologize as I know I'm just as culpable as anyone. Let's get back on topic here with the reported HP 65xx/67xx devices. My lengthy discussion with NLS has been taken offline.

Thanks everyone!

[NLS]

I wouldn't mind hearing some feedback from the developer types as to the compatibility of the square screen resolution, with existing software. Does anyone have any idea as to how much is likely to be hard coded and therefore not work, opposed to how much existing software will work?

It really depends on the app. I would say the biggest problems are dialog boxes. If they have information that in portrait mode is covered by the keyboard, then that information will be offscreen in square VGA. I believe MS built in support for legacy apps in the form of a scrollbar on the righthand side of the screen for apps with offscreen controls in order to help scroll them into view, but this scrollbar aside from being a less than ideal solution can also obscure some potential information. With the developer resources for WM2003SE MS recommended making sure square resolutions were supported, but I don't know how many developers followed this advice since so far there aren't any square WM2003SE devices out yet (that I know of). I think most developers were concerned with making sure their apps support both portrait and landscape modes (often with different layouts of controls in dialogs to make sure all the info fits on-screen). For developers that decided to use a single layout for both portrait and landscape - effectively using the 240x240 square that is common to both orientations - these will probably be just fine in square VGA. Anyway, I'd guess that apps that were revised to support WM2003SE have a better chance of working with square VGA than earlier "legacy" apps.

MS recomended all right, but really which developer IN PRACTICE will make the effort (because it needs effort) to design or redesign (if existing) their applications to fit in 240x240, needing sometimes a WHOLE SET OF DIFFERENT forms (not just a resize - since wanted details may not fit) just because there is ONE device in whole Planet PocketPC with such resolution? (even with questionable effect in the market)

I know many developers wouldn't make the effort - and knowing that "not everything works" and waiting for "new versions" (if and when), is something more for the tombstone. At least us people that went from QVGA to VGA, we stayed more or less compatible with QVGA (I know I reinstalled ALL programs I used with 5450 to my LOOX 720 - I doubt this would be the case with this... thing).

[Steven Cedrone]

Posts split from here! (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38166&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

Steve