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View Full Version : Dell Asking PalmOne For WM Treo?


Janak Parekh
11-26-2004, 11:00 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.gigaom.com/2004/11/persistent_palm_.php' target='_blank'>http://www.gigaom.com/2004/11/persistent_palm_.php</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Nothing is certain yet, but the rumors of PalmOne’s decision to make a Treo running Windows Mobile won’t die. The latest rumors have Dell pressing PalmOne to make a Treo with a Microsoft engine so that Dell can turn around and sell it to their enterprise users. With wireless PDA’s like Dell’s Axim largely a stagnant-or disappearing-market, Dell would like nothing more than to offer its customers the best smartphone on the market, without having to hassle with the FCC or waste time developing one on their own. It makes sense for PalmOne as well, a company that needs to start actively courting the enterprise market-or risk losing even more ground to RIM. Dell would be a great partner for PalmOne to use to get into the enterprise space. Most importantly, says Gartner analyst Ken Dulaney, is that this is what the market really wants: A device that looks and acts a lot like a Blackberry, but that runs the PocketPC/Windows Mobile engine."</i><br /><br />We reported on some of these rumors a while back, but this one is more extensive. I have no idea if it's true or not, but it's certainly intriguing. The Blackberry has become a runaway success -- I see people with Blackberries everywhere in New York. What I'd love to have is a mobile PDA with the formfactor of a Treo, the always-on nature of a Blackberry, and the Pocket PC OS enabling PIM and 3rd-party applications, and it sounds like something similar is being targeted here.

saljamex
11-27-2004, 12:51 AM
The Best advantage of TREO is the Palm OS itself, I do not see any advantage VS PDA2K, O2 IIs, O2III, etc, having Windows CE OS.

Janak Parekh
11-27-2004, 12:52 AM
The Best advantage of TREO is the Palm OS itself, I do not see any advantage VS PDA2K, O2 IIs, O2III, etc, having Windows CE OS.
That's one opinion. ;) I know I speak for myself and several others when I say that's the Treo's one disadvantage...

--janak

tourdewolf
11-27-2004, 12:59 AM
http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/493-1.htm

Looks like palm one is reading the writing on the wall. It will be a sad to see palmsource and the palm os die. IMO it does what it does very well and definately deserves a place in the market. Acuatally I don't see why all three devices couldn't co-exist? Palm for simple pim, WM for multimedia and more and Linux the alternative folks. All built around the treo form factor. Seems
plausable.

saljamex
11-27-2004, 01:01 AM
The Best advantage of TREO is the Palm OS itself, I do not see any advantage VS PDA2K, O2 IIs, O2III, etc, having Windows CE OS.
That's one opinion. ;) I know I speak for myself and several others when I say that's the Treo's one disadvantage...

--janak

Exactly, why buy TREO when you already have better options (More RAM, beter processor,etc)

bvkeen
11-27-2004, 01:21 AM
This sounds like a real winner to me. I would expect Dell and Palm would both make out well with this, and I would certainly strongly consider a "Dell Treo" for my next device. (I will have to wait a while though after just getting an hx4700. Maybe this will be a reality next year.)

surur
11-27-2004, 01:48 AM
This sounds like Gartner is trying to kill the Treo by spreading FUD. It must be very damaging to palmsource and their stock price when rumours like this go around.

It does not even make sense, as it would certainly take a lot of development to make a Treo run WM, and it would likely need to be re-certified again.

Also one of the main reasons people dont like the Treo is absence of wifi. This wont be magically added if they change the OS. Again it would need to be recertified by the FCC.

So either Gartner is filled with idiots, or they are intentionally spreading damaging romours....

Surur

PS: The last time I used a palm was 4 years ago. I just cant stand such underhanded behaviour.

ADBrown
11-27-2004, 02:19 AM
[i]With wireless PDA’s like Dell’s Axim largely a stagnant-or disappearing-market

I guess no one mentioned to these guys that handheld shipments are up 13% for the last quarter, they're still two to three times the shipments of smartphones, and that Dell alone was up by 30%.

Darius Wey
11-27-2004, 04:06 AM
I guess no one mentioned to these guys that handheld shipments are up 13% for the last quarter, they're still two to three times the shipments of smartphones, and that Dell alone was up by 30%.

Statistics are colluding - it's driving me nuts! :)

Janak Parekh
11-27-2004, 05:14 AM
Exactly, why buy TREO when you already have better options (More RAM, beter processor,etc)
Observe I said the Treo's formfactor, more than anything else. ;) The BenQ P50, if it ever comes out, may solve the problem via a third party.

It does not even make sense, as it would certainly take a lot of development to make a Treo run WM, and it would likely need to be re-certified again.
I'm not so sure. The Treo uses an ARM chip, and WM2003 works well on a broad array of ARM devices. If Gartner was truly spreading incorrect rumors with a malicious intent, PalmSource could certainly protest via various channels.

--janak

ADBrown
11-27-2004, 10:32 AM
I'm not so sure. The Treo uses an ARM chip, and WM2003 works well on a broad array of ARM devices.

Yeah, but that's not the biggest problem. You would have to replace the screen--the Treo 650 has a 320 x 320 screen, and you'd have to replace it with either a 240 x 240 or 480 x 480 screen, the square sizes usable by PocketPC. You would have to rip out the NVFS flash and put in real ROM and RAM, which would mean seriously rearranging the motherboard, as well as finding a home for a real 64 MB RAM. And that's not even starting on any of the more esoteric engineering issues you might run into in adapting a Treo to run Windows. That's the top reason I doubt this rumor. Assuming that Dell did want to get into a fight with RIM, they could easily get a design from HTC that would meet all their requirements without having to adapt the Treo.

dh
11-27-2004, 04:51 PM
I would like to see a PPC version of the Treo. I almost bought the Treo 600, but decided to wait for an enhanced version. Sure enough, out comes the Treo 650, but it turns out to be a step backwards.

I wanted more memory, the 650 has less than the 600 - pa1mOne have had to resort to giving away an SD card to try to make amends.

The PIM databases have been changed, no longer compatible with the Pocket Informant wannabees of the Palm world. All in all a complete mess.

I'm not even slightly tempted by any other smartphone, so it's a case a wait till next year for me.

shawnc
11-27-2004, 06:14 PM
I would like to see a PPC version of the Treo. I almost bought the Treo 600, but decided to wait for an enhanced version. Sure enough, out comes the Treo 650, but it turns out to be a step backwards.

I wanted more memory, the 650 has less than the 600 - pa1mOne have had to resort to giving away an SD card to try to make amends.

The PIM databases have been changed, no longer compatible with the Pocket Informant wannabees of the Palm world. All in all a complete mess.

I'm not even slightly tempted by any other smartphone, so it's a case a wait till next year for me.

I loved my Treo (older 300 model) and was anxiously awaiting the 600 model. However, it was just a little to big for my taste. Then I heard about the 650 and was equally excited. From what I heard, the screen was better and the device was slightly smaller. I can't believe that it has LESS memory than the 600!!!! What in the world is palmone thinking :?:.

I do find it hard to believe that we will ever see a Treo with a windows-based OS. For one, I don't think they'll ever include Wifi simply because it is a connected device, but you are forced to use your Sprint minutes. With wifi, you could bypass this. I can't see Sprint allowing that to happen.

I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I have yet to see a converged PPC device that is even remotely appealing in terms of aesthetics. The Treo and Blackberry are both devices that have that "WOW" factor. The PPC devices are appealing to mainly techie types, they just don't look good (IMO). So it would be nice to see a good-looking PPC device like the Treo as an option. I just don't see it happening.

Janak Parekh
11-27-2004, 08:34 PM
Yeah, but that's not the biggest problem. You would have to replace the screen--the Treo 650 has a 320 x 320 screen, and you'd have to replace it with either a 240 x 240 or 480 x 480 screen, the square sizes usable by PocketPC. You would have to rip out the NVFS flash and put in real ROM and RAM, which would mean seriously rearranging the motherboard, as well as finding a home for a real 64 MB RAM.
Ah, some good points here. Either it does require some reengineering, or they'd target a future version of Windows Mobile that loosens those requirements? :P (I don't know, just mere speculation.)

--janak

g-funkster
11-28-2004, 05:08 AM
I'm not even slightly tempted by any other smartphone, so it's a case a wait till next year for they'll ever include Wifi simply because it is a connected device, but you are forced to use your Sprint minutes. With wifi, you could bypass this. I can't see Sprint allowing that to happen.

I really hope you and others reading this understand: once you pay the 10 (or is it 15? I'm still paying 10) for PCS Vision, data is UNLIMITED &amp; DOES NOT use up Minutes.

I seriously think if more people knew this, they'd have a treo. Get this, I'm posting this message while on a bus on my treo 600. That's why this thing, along with its formfactor, is so popular.

shawnc
11-28-2004, 07:20 AM
I'm not even slightly tempted by any other smartphone, so it's a case a wait till next year for they'll ever include Wifi simply because it is a connected device, but you are forced to use your Sprint minutes. With wifi, you could bypass this. I can't see Sprint allowing that to happen.

I really hope you and others reading this understand: once you pay the 10 (or is it 15? I'm still paying 10) for PCS Vision, data is UNLIMITED &amp; DOES NOT use up Minutes.

I seriously think if more people knew this, they'd have a treo. Get this, I'm posting this message while on a bus on my treo 600. That's why this thing, along with its formfactor, is so popular.

It's really not a question of understanding. I pay $30 for my minutes, I don't want to incur the extra $10 or $15 for Vision data nor would I have to if I had a device with Wifi. No one, at least not I, is questioning how great the Treo is. But for me personally, Wifi simply works better.

dh
11-28-2004, 02:58 PM
I really hope you and others reading this understand: once you pay the 10 (or is it 15? I'm still paying 10) for PCS Vision, data is UNLIMITED &amp; DOES NOT use up Minutes.

I seriously think if more people knew this, they'd have a treo. Get this, I'm posting this message while on a bus on my treo 600. That's why this thing, along with its formfactor, is so popular.
Well I must be the exeption to your rule, because I have unlimited Vision with Sprint but no Treo.

Like I said in the post above, I really want one, but so far none of the offerings has been quite what I want. The 650 does come close, but I'm not about to give up 192 MB of memory on my Zaurus (plus twin expansion slots) for the ~ 32 MB on the 650. Take a look at the forums at Treo Central. People are having all kinds of problems with the lack of memory and the weird file system.

I'm sure that many customers would be satisfied with the 650, but I have well over 3,000 contacts in my address book (I use my PDA for business so have all my companies CRM data with me all the time) and tons of other stuff, so I'll keep waiting.

The Treo 650 form factor is great, the intregration of phone and PDA is the best of any device, but there are too many negatives to be able to justify investing in one.

Oh and don't even mention the camera. Many of my customer are defense contractors and I'd be lost having to leave my data outside when I go to meetings. Swap the crappy camera for more memory and I might be a pa1mOne customer :lol:

KevinK
11-28-2004, 06:37 PM
You can get one without the camera.

shawnc
11-28-2004, 06:37 PM
Swap the crappy camera for more memory and I might be a pa1mOne customer :lol:

You said it brother.