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View Full Version : Mobile-review.com Reviews HP's iPAQ BT Keyboard


Janak Parekh
11-11-2004, 06:00 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/hp-ipaq-bluetooth-keyboard-en.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/re...yboard-en.shtml</a><br /><br /></div><i>"HP iPaq Bluetooth Keyboard was developed by Darfon (the model G900). As there wouldn't be official shipments of the HP keyboard to Europe, the device will appear under different names depending on the local distributor. For example, the keyboard will come to Russia under the name Highscreen. The major exterior difference from the Stowaway keyboard is that the HP keyboard (let's call the HP iPaq Bluetooth Keyboard this way in our review) has an extra row of digital keys. Inside the HP keyboard there is an old chip applied, CSR BlueCore 2 (no support of HID profile; Bluetooth 1.1), while the Stowaway version involves new chip by Broadcom BCM 2040 (the support of HID profile; Bluetooth 1.2)."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20041110-MobileReviewHPBT.jpg" /><br /><br />I know there's been several HP BT Keyboard reviews lately, but I always look forward to Mobile-review's articles: their pictures are amazing, and this review is no exception. Take a look especially if you want to see shots of the keyboard at different angles or juxtaposed against different devices to get a better feel for its size. There's also some good technical discussion, as the above quote suggests.

smerickson
11-11-2004, 06:17 PM
Random unrelated question: Does anybody know what laptop that is in the picture? It looks nice.

ricksfiona
11-11-2004, 06:47 PM
Man, that is a really big keyboard! A picture truly speaks a 1000 words... A number row? I WANT it!

CESkins
11-11-2004, 07:01 PM
The keyboard looks too big for my tastes...I would not be able to fit it comfortably in my coat pocket along with my Axim x50v. It dwarfs the Loox 720 next to it in one of the pics. I don't know if a signficant trade off in size (compared to the Think Outside BT KB) merits the addition of a row of number keys for me. However, if you wear cargo pants or put your PDA accesories in a briefcase...it might be worth it. Anyone has pics of this KB next to an iPAQ 4700 for size comparison?

Kowalski
11-11-2004, 07:15 PM
just follow the link to mobile-review :D

BTW in my opinion, mobile-review.com is the best review site on the net.

CESkins
11-11-2004, 07:44 PM
Just went to the TO website to look at the dimensions for BT KB closed and opened. Looks like it is not that much smaller than the HP KB. Darn...wish I hadn't done that...now I may just have to pick up an HP BT KB...guess I can always give the TO KB to the wife. ;)

Marcel_Proust
11-11-2004, 08:47 PM
Does anyone know yet if it works with non-ipaq bluetooth?

gibson042
11-11-2004, 08:57 PM
Does anyone know yet if it works with non-ipaq bluetooth?
They used it with a Loox 720 in this review.

Craig Horlacher
11-11-2004, 09:48 PM
Does anyone know if this would work with the toshiba e830 bluetooth stack? I bought a thinkoutside and it won't:( I don't care about the size so much and I'm actually glad for real number keys. I just want a bluetooth keyboard that works with my otherwise sweet new e830!!!

jalm1
11-11-2004, 11:44 PM
a little off topic, but i also wonder if it is working with other devices it might work with a MS smartphone. It would be much more usefull to me at least if it would work with my 6315 as well as my C500.

Craig Horlacher
11-12-2004, 04:19 PM
I called HP and they claim it works with any Windows Mobile 2003 pocket pc that has bluetooth. I should get it Monday. I'll let you know if it works on mine! I sure hope it does. I kind of need a keyboard.

Anyone want a deal on the ThinkOutside bluetooth keyboard? I guess I'll have to hit ebay.

maikii
11-15-2004, 07:23 AM
Two questions about this:

1) Size. How does it compare with the other HP (non-Bluetooth) foldable keyboard? I believe that is made by the same manufacturer, Darfon. If the BT one is larger, why?

2) Compatibility. I assume it would work with my IPAQ 2210 PPC. However, I am also planning to buy a cell phone with Bluetooth in the near future. (Not sure which one yet.) If I get a BT folding keyboard, I would want it to work with the phone as well as the PPC. Will this KB work with BT phones?

ctmagnus
11-15-2004, 07:44 AM
I have no experience with either keyboard, but

Two questions about this:

1) Size. How does it compare with the other HP (non-Bluetooth) foldable keyboard? I believe that is made by the same manufacturer, Darfon. If the BT one is larger, why?

This keyboard has five rows instead of the usual four.

2) Compatibility. I assume it would work with my IPAQ 2210 PPC. However, I am also planning to buy a cell phone with Bluetooth in the near future. (Not sure which one yet.) If I get a BT folding keyboard, I would want it to work with the phone as well as the PPC. Will this KB work with BT phones?

I hope so, as I already have a BT phone I plan to use with this setup ;)

maikii
11-15-2004, 04:12 PM
This keyboard has five rows instead of the usual four.

;)

Usual four? Just because the Stowaway BT keyboard has four rows, how does that make it usual?

The keyboard I was asking for a comparison with, the other HP folding PPC keyboard, does have a number row.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
11-19-2004, 09:26 AM
This keyboard has five rows instead of the usual four.

;)
Usual four? Just because the Stowaway BT keyboard has four rows, how does that make it usual?

The keyboard I was asking for a comparison with, the other HP folding PPC keyboard, does have a number row.
Actually, Stowaway have made several keyboards through the years and with exception for the original model, none of them have featured a standard number row (though there was one IR version with a miniature number row). Some of the other portable keyboard manufacturers have followed the same design. Only recently are we seeing keyboards finally return to the 5 row design with this HP keyboard, the Brando keyboard, and the latest PalmOne.

maikii
11-21-2004, 05:23 AM
This keyboard has five rows instead of the usual four.

;)
Usual four? Just because the Stowaway BT keyboard has four rows, how does that make it usual?

The keyboard I was asking for a comparison with, the other HP folding PPC keyboard, does have a number row.
Actually, Stowaway have made several keyboards through the years and with exception for the original model, none of them have featured a standard number row (though there was one IR version with a miniature number row). Some of the other portable keyboard manufacturers have followed the same design. Only recently are we seeing keyboards finally return to the 5 row design with this HP keyboard, the Brando keyboard, and the latest PalmOne.

My HP foldable keyboard (not this new BT one) has a number row, as do most PDA folding keyboards that I've seen. "Stowaway" does not make keyboards, it is a brand name made by "Think Outside". Before this BT keyboard, the only one I'm aware of they made without a number row, is the XT.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
11-21-2004, 04:23 PM
My HP foldable keyboard (not this new BT one) has a number row, as do most PDA folding keyboards that I've seen.
That's a serial keyboard, right?

I suspect that's where the miscommunication is here. Most people on this board have been waiting for the ideal WIRELESS keyboard with a standard numbers row. So I suspect when CTMAGNUS said the "usual 4 rows", he wasn't considering serial options (as most of us aren't).

"Stowaway" does not make keyboards, it is a brand name made by "Think Outside".
I always associated the 2 names together but never was clear on which belonged to which. Thanks for the clarification.

Before this BT keyboard, the only one I'm aware of they made without a number row, is the XT.
If I'm not mistaken, after the original "3-fold" keyboard, they made the XT which was another serial keyboard but without a numbers row. They also made an IR keyboard without a numbers row. And of course, they have the BT keyboard without a numbers row. So that's 3 keyboards total from ThinkOutside alone with no numbers row. The last 2 being wireless.

PalmOne also have 2 editions of an IR keyboard. The 1st edition did not include a numbers row. The 2nd edition, which was only released within the past couple of months, did include a numbers row.

Targus also released an IR keyboard with a numbers row (not sure who the maker was), but the numbers row was miniaturized in both height and width (the rest of the rows were standardized). So, one couldn't comfortably touch-type numbers without re-memorizing key placement.

My very first keyboard was a MicroInnovations IR keyboard that also did not include a numbers row (I think it's been discontinued at this point). I returned it after a couple of days and bought the original Stowaway keyboard.

I suspect there may be others, but CTMAGNUS' remark has been a popular complaint on this board for a long time. Many like myself, have been waiting for a universal/wireless keyboard with a numbers row and because no viable options have appeared until recently, we'd been left holding onto the original serial Stowaway keyboard.

All this explains why I was only able to FINALLY retire my original Stowaway this past week (after owning it for close to 3 years). I'd been saying to myself for over a year that the first IR/BT keyboard with a standard number row would get my money. I came real close to buying the PalmOne IR keyboard a couple months back until I heard about the HP's BT keyboard that would soon be released. Now I own the HP BT Folding keyboard.

maikii
11-21-2004, 11:33 PM
Well, enough of the discussion whether 4 or 5 rows is "usual".

What I would still like to know is--will this keyboard work with a Bluetooth mobile phone as well, or only with a PPC?

Anyone tried it yet with a phone?

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
11-22-2004, 04:12 AM
What I would still like to know is--will this keyboard work with a Bluetooth mobile phone as well, or only with a PPC?
Not to the best of my knowledge. HP only included PPC drivers and I would be surprised if HP is planning on releasing drivers for other devices. Perhaps there will be some generic drivers in the future that can be used...

Anyone tried it yet with a phone?
I can pair it with my SE k700i phone, but the phone doesn't recognize any usable services from the keyboard. So while it displays as a BT paired device on my phone, there isn't any services for it to connect to.

maikii
11-27-2004, 08:36 PM
What I would still like to know is--will this keyboard work with a Bluetooth mobile phone as well, or only with a PPC?
Not to the best of my knowledge. HP only included PPC drivers and I would be surprised if HP is planning on releasing drivers for other devices. Perhaps there will be some generic drivers in the future that can be used...

Anyone tried it yet with a phone?
I can pair it with my SE k700i phone, but the phone doesn't recognize any usable services from the keyboard. So while it displays as a BT paired device on my phone, there isn't any services for it to connect to.

Well, before I get a BT keyboard, they are going to have to work with more BT devices. One of the promises of wireless keyboards (besides being wireless) is universality. An IR keyboard, for instance, should work with any product that has IR. (Those don't interest me, though, due to the directionality of IR.)

I still don't have a phone with BT, but expect to get one in the near future. I would definitely want any BT keyboard I buy to work with my BT phone as well as my PPC.

I hope the manufacturers are listening! They should make these keyboards work with any portable device that has BT and could use a keyboard!

How about Microsoft Smartphones? If the HP KB works with PPCs, would it also work with Smartphones>

Janak Parekh
11-27-2004, 08:48 PM
Not to the best of my knowledge. HP only included PPC drivers and I would be surprised if HP is planning on releasing drivers for other devices. Perhaps there will be some generic drivers in the future that can be used...
I'm not so sure about that. Most Bluetooth keyboards implement the HID profile, right? If so, no driver is needed if the device has HID support. Has anyone tested it with a desktop? I know for a fact that the Stowaway does and that people have used it with desktop machines.

I can pair it with my SE k700i phone, but the phone doesn't recognize any usable services from the keyboard. So while it displays as a BT paired device on my phone, there isn't any services for it to connect to.
It's possible that SE didn't implement the HID profile in the K700i's BT stack.

--janak

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
11-27-2004, 10:30 PM
Not to the best of my knowledge. HP only included PPC drivers and I would be surprised if HP is planning on releasing drivers for other devices. Perhaps there will be some generic drivers in the future that can be used...
I'm not so sure about that. Most Bluetooth keyboards implement the HID profile, right? If so, no driver is needed if the device has HID support. Has anyone tested it with a desktop? I know for a fact that the Stowaway does and that people have used it with desktop machines.
According to the same review linked from this thread, this keyboard does not support the HID profile:

Inside the HP keyboard there is an old chip applied, CSR BlueCore 2 (no support of HID profile; Bluetooth 1.1), while the Stowaway version involves new chip by Broadcom BCM 2040 (the support of HID profile; Bluetooth 1.2).

I can also confirm that the pairing of the PPC and this keyboard isn't done through the BT manager, but through HP's applet that is installed.

Why did HP go this route? I have no idea but that tidbit of information from the Mobile-Review article was probably the strongest deterrent against buying this keyboard. OTOH, I don't plan on using the keyboard for anything other than my PPC, and this HP keyboard was (IMO) the best BT keyboard (with a number row) available, so I gave in and bought it.

I can pair it with my SE k700i phone, but the phone doesn't recognize any usable services from the keyboard. So while it displays as a BT paired device on my phone, there isn't any services for it to connect to.
It's possible that SE didn't implement the HID profile in the K700i's BT stack.
Possibly, though I guess wouldn't know with this keyboard if the article is correct.

I did, however, just recently hear of some free custom program that allows me to create customized HID profiles on my k700, but that would be of limited use to me right now and is probably a different discussion altogether.

Janak Parekh
11-27-2004, 10:39 PM
I stand corrected. Thanks, ekkie. Bad news for this unit. :| I'm looking for a BT keyboard myself in the medium-term but want one that could work with a slate tablet, for example.

--janak

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
11-28-2004, 01:17 AM
I stand corrected. Thanks, ekkie. Bad news for this unit. :| I'm looking for a BT keyboard myself in the medium-term but want one that could work with a slate tablet, for example.
Yeah. It's a terrific keyboard and I'm extremely pleased with it, but it's not the right solution for anyone looking to use it with anything else other than their PPC.

Perhaps the older BT core used in this keyboard is what allowed HP to sell it for less than the Stowaway equivalent. I don't know. I wish HP hadn't cut that corner. If at some point in the near future another great BT keyboard comes with HID support and a standard number key, this keyboard will probably go straight to eBay, but right now, I don't see another viable solution (the Brando doesn't appeal to me for various reasons).

maikii
12-04-2004, 06:26 AM
I'm not so sure about that. Most Bluetooth keyboards implement the HID profile, right? If so, no driver is needed if the device has HID support. Has anyone tested it with a desktop? I know for a fact that the Stowaway does and that people have used it with desktop machines.


Do most Bluetooth phones support the HID profile?

maikii
12-04-2004, 06:31 AM
Inside the HP keyboard there is an old chip applied, CSR BlueCore 2 (no support of HID profile; Bluetooth 1.1), while the Stowaway version involves new chip by Broadcom BCM 2040 (the support of HID profile; Bluetooth 1.2).

I can also confirm that the pairing of the PPC and this keyboard isn't done through the BT manager, but through HP's applet that is installed.

Why did HP go this route?

I don't think the keyboard is actually made by HP. It is made by the Taiwanese company Darfon, the same company that makes the other HP foldable keyboard, and the HP name is just put on it.

I wouldn't be surprised if that exact same keyboard comes out with other brand names on it, such as the Belkin BT KB that is supposed to come out. I wonder in that case, if they might include different software, which might increase their capabilities.

phs
12-05-2004, 02:22 AM
Well, before I get a BT keyboard, they are going to have to work with more BT devices. One of the promises of wireless keyboards (besides being wireless) is universality. An IR keyboard, for instance, should work with any product that has IR. (Those don't interest me, though, due to the directionality of IR.)

I still don't have a phone with BT, but expect to get one in the near future. I would definitely want any BT keyboard I buy to work with my BT phone as well as my PPC.


I have the other BT Keyboard with the number row. It's branded as Smart here in the Philippines, I think it's called Freedom in the US. It has drivers for PocketPC, PocketPC Phone, Smartphone, and Symbian (Eriscsson P900, Nokia 6600, etc). Works well.

maikii
12-11-2004, 09:31 PM
Well, before I get a BT keyboard, they are going to have to work with more BT devices. One of the promises of wireless keyboards (besides being wireless) is universality. An IR keyboard, for instance, should work with any product that has IR. (Those don't interest me, though, due to the directionality of IR.)

I still don't have a phone with BT, but expect to get one in the near future. I would definitely want any BT keyboard I buy to work with my BT phone as well as my PPC.


I have the other BT Keyboard with the number row. It's branded as Smart here in the Philippines, I think it's called Freedom in the US. It has drivers for PocketPC, PocketPC Phone, Smartphone, and Symbian (Eriscsson P900, Nokia 6600, etc). Works well.

I actually have seen articles about two new foldable BT keyboards with number rows, other than the HP. One is by Javoedge. The other is this one you mention, called "Freedom". I have seen it for $99 US, which I think is less than any of the other folding BT keyboards cost so far. http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/7090/

I don't know if these are all different devices, or the same one with different brand names--HP, Javoedge, Freedom, and perhaps different drivers.

What devices have you used it with?

Sounds like the Freedom KB at least has drivers for smartphones (Symbian and Microsoft) and PPC phones, as well as PDAs. What about normal (i.e. non-smart :wink: ) mobile phones that have Bluetooth, such as the Motorola V600, for instance? Will BT mobile phones that do not have one of these "smart" OS's not be able to connect to a BT keyboard? What Profile do they use, that the keyboards do not have?

maikii
12-12-2004, 03:25 AM
I actually have seen articles about two new foldable BT keyboards with number rows, other than the HP. One is by Javoedge. The other is this one you mention, called "Freedom". I have seen it for $99 US, which I think is less than any of the other folding BT keyboards cost so far. http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/7090/

I don't know if these are all different devices, or the same one with different brand names--HP, Javoedge, Freedom, and perhaps different drivers.

I found a web page about the Javoedge BT keyboard:

http://www.javoedge.com/simtrix/productMtce/productDetail.do?state=init&amp;productId=454&amp;productRef=PKYB-61118-01&amp;category=KEYBOARD

The picture looks very similar to the one for the "Freedom" keyboard, in the prior URL. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is the same keyboard under different names, although I did not compare the specs.

If the two are the same, it costs considerably less to buy it as the "Freedom" keyboard from "Thinkgeek" ($99), rather than as the "Javoedge" keyboard from "Javoedge" ($125.50).

I'm not sure they are the same though. Just a guess.