More Axim X50 Details Leaking Out

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2004/10/latest_axim_x50.php' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketfactory.com/archiv...st_axim_x50.php</a><br /><br /></div>Looks like we're nearing the release of the X50. :mrgreen: Someone got <a href="http://plutoniumshore.com/BBSpics/Aximsite/PDA/AximX50-X50v.pdf">a hold of the PDF manual for the X50</a>, and our very own Kent from Digital Media Thoughts took it upon himself to summarize the specifications on his personal site (linked above).<br /><br /><i>"Dell is launching the Axim X50 tomorrow. And judging from the specs, it looks like a hot little handheld. The X50 comes in two flavors and features a 624mhz, 520mhz, or 416mhz Xscale processors, respectively. As well as 64MB RAM, 128MB ROM, or 64MB StrataFlash ROM. There will be two models; the Axim X50 and X50v. While the base X50 will have a traditional 240x320 native display, the X50v will offer a VGA screen, both capable of 16-bit color (65,000 colors). Both devices will feature a Compact Flash and SDIO slot."</i>

[serpico]

Let's see how thick that puppy is with both slots. :D

On another note, Bill Gates is supposed to be introducing XP Reloaded tomorrow at a certain conference. The two maybe related. I read it today at another news site.

[Jonathan1]

BAH! Figures. I post a question on the model and this thread pops up. :p

Since it looks like we are REALLY close to a release of the x50 I have one nagging question. Obviously no one can really give a definitive answer since no one has a x50 yet. With that being said......
I'm all but certain that I want this model but I'm hesitant. HTC had a solid track record for their form factors but their screens. The whole yellow screen on the HP line is/was a major turn-off and frankly I’m more then a little nervous about the X50v.
Even the recently release Blue Angle PDA phone has this same problem. I guess what I’m wondering if what is the likelihood that with a new VGA screen do you guys think this “issue” will be rectified?
What's your thoughts on the subject?

[Duncan]

Let's see how thick that puppy is with both slots. :D

According to the manual - 16.9 mm (6.7").

According to the datasheet - 16 mm (6.3").

A previous Dell source in the Aximsite forums said 15.9 mm (6.3").

Assuming the datasheet has rounded the figure up (as they have with the inch measurements) then two and three can be counted as the same.

Courtesy of one of our forum members - here is the link to the manual on Dell's site: http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/aximx50/en/index.htm

[serpico]

Dell actually has this posted already on their website ? I didn't know it would be there yet until final release. Has anyone seen pictures of the slots and width ?

[arnage2]

if the X50 is announced tomorrow, i wonder how long it will be till they actually ship

[isilver]

Does it support USB 2.0. I hate the old Dell Axim X5 and it's slow transfer rates onto the Secure Digital card.

[Boxster S]

Does it support USB 2.0. I hate the old Dell Axim X5 and it's slow transfer rates onto the Secure Digital card.

Get a USB 2.0 SD Reader from OfficeMax for free after rebate you cheapskate :)

Heck you can get 7-in-1 USB 2.0 readers all day long for $10-$15

[isilver]

May laziness goes far beyond what you think. I actually have a card reader. But I hate taking the card out and putting it into the card reader. I prefer just to sync through active sync. I just want it to be fast and easy.

[ricksfiona]

May laziness goes far beyond what you think. I actually have a card reader. But I hate taking the card out and putting it into the card reader. I prefer just to sync through active sync. I just want it to be fast and easy.

As bad as it sounds, I hate taking my SD card out too. It's a hassle.

[carphead]

What goes through these companies minds? Why would you do it? Do they actually sit down and think.........

l know lets make a top end unit. Make it a killer device Give a VGA screen bluetoth, wifi etc. Then lets really kick it in the nuts and give it 64mb ram!

Why would you do that? Its like put a propeller on a rocket. Or a 1 litre engine in a ferrari. Which idiot made the specs? Go on admit it.

Thanks feel better for that :)

[Boxster S]

May laziness goes far beyond what you think. I actually have a card reader. But I hate taking the card out and putting it into the card reader. I prefer just to sync through active sync. I just want it to be fast and easy.

As bad as it sounds, I hate taking my SD card out too. It's a hassle.

You guys are lazy. Takes me 5 seconds to take out my SD card and stick it in my SD reader on my PC (mounted in a 5 1/4 drive bay).

[Boxster S]

What goes through these companies minds? Why would you do it? Do they actually sit down and think.........

l know lets make a top end unit. Make it a killer device Give a VGA screen bluetoth, wifi etc. Then lets really kick it in the nuts and give it 64mb ram!

Why would you do that? Its like put a propeller on a rocket. Or a 1 litre engine in a ferrari. Which idiot made the specs? Go on admit it.

Thanks feel better for that :)

Agreed. It's like being given the keys to a brand new Ferrari F430 and then being capped at 25MPH:

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/F/ferrari/f430/03-large/05-f3q-stu.jpg

[Mark Johnson]

The dimensions are a bit of a bummer. It is a little smaller and lighter than the hx4705, and probably a bit more "pocketable" since it's curvaceous, but it's still a lot larger and heavier than my 1910.

I'll probably buy one though. I'm pretty tired of QVGA.

[Zack Mahdavi]

The dimensions are a bit of a bummer. It is a little smaller and lighter than the hx4705, and probably a bit more "pocketable" since it's curvaceous, but it's still a lot larger and heavier than my 1910.

The thickness is what's stopping me right now. I think this device will be very "thick" compared to the 1910. And I've noticed that when it comes to pocketability, thickness is where it counts.

[Mark Johnson]

The thickness is what's stopping me right now. I think this device will be very "thick" compared to the 1910.


Yup. I think you're right. Also, the "overall volume" (HxWxD) looks like the x50v is almost 40% larger than the 1910. That's going to be REALLY noticable in your pocket. Also, 6.2oz vs. 4.4oz (175gr vs. 124gr) is a substantial weight difference.

If I wasn't so fed up with the limited amount of information QVGA shows onscreen there's no way I'd consider such a "pocketability downgrade" as I think the x50v will be.

[Silencer]

Well well my friend, what have we here? 8O 8O

http://img.dell.com/images/global/buttons/handheld_compare.jpg (http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/handheld?c=de&cs=dedhs1&l=de&s=dhs)

[email]Found@/handheld?c=de&cs=dedhs1&l=de&s=dhs]Dell Germany (http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx[/email)

The time is near...

[acetuk]

What I am finding interesting is that Dell have followed a similar path to HP with their hx4700 in terms of the memory. HP got a lot of stick for this and yet only a few weeks later Dell are doing the same.

So what we now have are the two biggest PPC manufacturers, both produced by HTC, with a 64mb RAM / 128mb ROM memory setup on their flagship models and the smaller manufacturers such as FS and ASUS (also produced by HTC I believe) using a 128mb RAM / 64mb ROM setup on theirs.

I suppose the question is what market they are aiming for? HP and Dell are after the corporate market I would suggest where cameras are not always allowed and core functions outweigh features (PI bundled on the hx4700 for example with high encryption tools built in).

The others are after a more rounded market, some corporate and a lot of home users, where a wider feature set and extras are beneficial. USB host is a good example here - the fact that it isn't on the hx4700 isn't going to be a problem for most corporate users who are unlikely to use it (a keyboard would be the obvious exception, where a bluetooth keboard will surfice). But it would be missed on home users who are more likely to want to play films off mass storage devices.

I own a hx4700 and have to say it is excellent. If the Dell is similar as well but at a cheaper price then that's great for the consumer.

[Andy Whiteford]

There is a lot of debate about the size of available RAM with many people citing 64mb as a choking point on the new devices. 64mb is more than enough RAM for a Windows Mobile 2003 device running on an ARM core processor. That is why we are seeing a shift of memory to ROM where people can install more apps leaving RAM free for execution. 128mb of RAM is more of a selling point than anything else and while 128 may indeed be better than 64mb, the extra RAM just isn't necessary with the current setups.

[ADBrown]

I guess what I’m wondering if what is the likelihood that with a new VGA screen do you guys think this “issue” will be rectified?
What's your thoughts on the subject?

Don't worry. It'll be perfect. :wink:

The dimensions are a bit of a bummer. It is a little smaller and lighter than the hx4705, and probably a bit more "pocketable" since it's curvaceous, but it's still a lot larger and heavier than my 1910.

The thickness is what's stopping me right now. I think this device will be very "thick" compared to the 1910. And I've noticed that when it comes to pocketability, thickness is where it counts.

You guys are crazy. :lol: You're quibbling over 0.13 of an inch without noticing that you're comparing a Ferarri to the original VW Beetle.

[CESkins]

You guys are crazy. :lol: You're quibbling over 0.13 of an inch without noticing that you're comparing a Ferarri to the original VW Beetle.
The x50 has basically the same dimensions as the Asus MyPal A730:

Asus MyPal A730
4.62 x 2.86 x 0.66 (118 x 73 x 17)
5.46 oz/170 g

The Asus is the smallest of the VGA PocketPCs released to date. While I hate the fact that the Dell is thicker than my 4150, the trade off is that it does have 2 slots, a VGA screen, and a faster processor. :D Now when can I buy one of these? ;)

[jlp]

May laziness goes far beyond what you think. I actually have a card reader. But I hate taking the card out and putting it into the card reader. I prefer just to sync through active sync. I just want it to be fast and easy.

As bad as it sounds, I hate taking my SD card out too. It's a hassle.

It's not so much of a hassle to remore the card and insert it into my front panel multi-reader; however I've left my memory cards behind a few times and THAT'S the hassle!!

Concerning memory, I've read a guy's comment about his hx4700 and that he installs all his apps in ROM leaving plenty of his 64 MB RAM to execute many large apps; that's a point of view that needs to be thought about; not at all stupid.

What remains to be seen is the speed difference (if any) of launching apps from ROM storage vs RAM. If there's little or no difference then having 64 MB RAM and 128 MB ROM is good enough!!

(I'm not sure FS and Asus have HTC manufacture their PPCs, I know Asus is making theirs and they've been making FS's too in the past as well, notably the P.Loox 610)

[Doug Raeburn]

You guys are crazy. :lol: You're quibbling over 0.13 of an inch without noticing that you're comparing a Ferarri to the original VW Beetle.
The x50 has basically the same dimensions as the Asus MyPal A730:

Asus MyPal A730
4.62 x 2.86 x 0.66 (118 x 73 x 17)
5.46 oz/170 g

The Asus is the smallest of the VGA PocketPCs released to date. While I hate the fact that the Dell is thicker than my 4150, the trade off is that it does have 2 slots, a VGA screen, and a faster processor. :D Now when can I buy one of these? ;)

Actually, in the two dimensions that comprise "bulk" (width and thickness), the Loox 720 beats the A730:

4.8 x 2.83 x .6 (122 x 72 x 15.2)
170g

Like Zack, the thickness is the real issue. My most recent point of comparison is my iPAQ 2215 and the Loox is actually slightly less thick.

As for the RAM vs. ROM question, even with judiciously using a memory card for any apps that would work from it, I was always bumping my head against the 64 MB RAM limit on the 2215. I'd have to soft-reset it at least once a day to free up the little bit of remaining RAM. That's why I immediately eliminated the 4700 from consideration. I have all of the same apps installed on my Loox (128 MB) and it has plenty of RAM to spare.

Frankly, I think the 4700 and the Dell memory specifications are a bad idea.

[Jacques G]

Can these only be ordered from Dell, or are there other suppliers as well? Thank you.

Jacques

[Andy Whiteford]

Doug, what kind of apps are you running? I have never had any issues related to memory with my h4150, I can literally go weeks without the need for a soft reset and the 64mb of RAM is entirely adequate for me.

[Andy Whiteford]

Can these only be ordered from Dell, or are there other suppliers as well? Thank you.

Jacques


Initially only from Dell although some online retailers such as expansys.com carry Dell handhelds so I imagine the X50 will be available there as well in the future.

[Duncan]

Concerning memory, I've read a guy's comment about his hx4700 and that he installs all his apps in ROM leaving plenty of his 64 MB RAM to execute many large apps; that's a point of view that needs to be thought about; not at all stupid.

I've tried the hx4700 and I have to say that the 64MB RAM makes things harder. Firstly you only get 55 MB useable. Some of that gets lost by any background programs you have running. Then there are programs that have to be installed in RAM. Then most programs that install on memory cards/ROM also leave stuff in RAM. Then no matter what you don't get to use the whole of the remaining RAM to run programs - the OS always keeps a bit in reserve as program memory. So you get maybe 30 - 35 MB RAM for running stuff. It isn't enough

(I'm not sure FS and Asus have HTC manufacture their PPCs, I know Asus is making theirs and they've been making FS's too in the past as well, notably the P.Loox 610)

Asus make their own. The Loox 720 is by HTC (the Loox 610 is the only FSC Pocket Loox to be made by Asus - the 600 was by Quanta, the 400 was HTC also).

[cab124]

I was always bumping my head against the 64 MB RAM limit on the 2215.

What exactly happens when you bump up against this limit on the 2215? I have always had a nagging problem on my 2215 that when I try to switch to certain apps, such as Laridian PocketBible, they simply won't start unless I do a soft reset. I am wondering if I might be experiencing the same issue.

Isn't WM supposed to know how to automatically free up enough memory to launch new apps? Isn't this what "smart minimize" is all about???

[Doug Raeburn]

Doug, what kind of apps are you running? I have never had any issues related to memory with my h4150, I can literally go weeks without the need for a soft reset and the 64mb of RAM is entirely adequate for me.

Andy...

My biggest issue is that I'm running Commontime's mNotes (Lotus Notes client for Pocket PC) and manage most of my e-mail, contacts, etc. using Inbox and AF on my 2215. If you have a substantial amount of data to represent, the internal databases can get quite big. And since we're dealing with the internal databases, a storage card/flash ROM isn't an option.

I could pare it down, but I prefer the solution of going with a unit with more RAM. If you're really pushing the envelope to the limit, as I tend to do, 64 MB of RAM (or actually 57 MB available on the 2215) just doesn't give you the necessary legroom.

Doug

[asok007]

The info is now up at Dell's site. Looks like they've got an 11/17/2004 ship date on the X50v

[Doug Raeburn]

I was always bumping my head against the 64 MB RAM limit on the 2215.

What exactly happens when you bump up against this limit on the 2215? I have always had a nagging problem on my 2215 that when I try to switch to certain apps, such as Laridian PocketBible, they simply won't start unless I do a soft reset. I am wondering if I might be experiencing the same issue.

Isn't WM supposed to know how to automatically free up enough memory to launch new apps? Isn't this what "smart minimize" is all about???

Those are exactly the symptoms, and that's exactly the issue. I'm still of the impression that WM memory management is less than perfect.

[azhiker]

So the new X50v is now posted on Dell's website, but delivery is not until Nov. 17, almost too late for Chistmas shopping.

Amazing they are doing it this way.

But with the discount price and all options (software, service plans and other hardware) make it a top contender for best PDA.

Now if they would only make a thinner model with just SD slot, I'd feel it fits my shirt pocket better!

[Andy Whiteford]

Doug, what kind of apps are you running? I have never had any issues related to memory with my h4150, I can literally go weeks without the need for a soft reset and the 64mb of RAM is entirely adequate for me.

Andy...

My biggest issue is that I'm running Commontime's mNotes (Lotus Notes client for Pocket PC) and manage most of my e-mail, contacts, etc. using Inbox and AF on my 2215. If you have a substantial amount of data to represent, the internal databases can get quite big. And since we're dealing with the internal databases, a storage card/flash ROM isn't an option.

I could pare it down, but I prefer the solution of going with a unit with more RAM. If you're really pushing the envelope to the limit, as I tend to do, 64 MB of RAM (or actually 57 MB available on the 2215) just doesn't give you the necessary legroom.

Doug



Ahhh, with you on that one. I was never too concerned with the internal databases as I have quite a strict management routine with them and don't use a third party PIM with its own databases.

[christak]

Let's see how thick that puppy is with both slots. :D

According to the manual - 16.9 mm (6.7").

According to the datasheet - 16 mm (6.3").

A previous Dell source in the Aximsite forums said 15.9 mm (6.3").

Assuming the datasheet has rounded the figure up (as they have with the inch measurements) then two and three can be counted as the same.

Courtesy of one of our forum members - here is the link to the manual on Dell's site: http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/aximx50/en/index.htm


These dimensions came directly from the X50 Owners Manual...
Looks like a winner to me!!

X50 Dimensions:
Length 119.0 mm (4.69 inches)
Width 73.0 mm (2.87 inches)
Height 16.9 mm (0.67 inch)

For comparison (from HP site):
ipaq 2210 dimensions 115.4mm (L) x 76.4mm (W) x 15.4mm (H)
ipaq 4150 dimensions 113.6mm (L) x 70.6mm (W) x 13.5mm (H)
ipaq hx4700 dimensions 131 mm (L) x 77 mm (W) x 14.9 mm (H)

[Doug Raeburn]

Ahhh, with you on that one. I was never too concerned with the internal databases as I have quite a strict management routine with them and don't use a third party PIM with its own databases.

It's not actually the PIM (AF), it's the "synch" software (mNotes) that fills up the databases to that degree. AF itself is actually pretty lean for such a powerful app.

[lmtuxinc]

The info is now up at Dell's site. Looks like they've got an 11/17/2004 ship date on the X50v
here's a link for the compare handhelds page.
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/handhelds?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

[PJE]

But with the discount price and all options (software, service plans and other hardware) make it a top contender for best PDA.

What discount are you refering to?

Also, Looks like the RAM and Flash are embedded in the processor, mobile phone style (reference to Packed), which means memory upgrades may not be possible.

[mikewoodhouse]

The discount is on the X30 - presumably being reduced to clear...

[Duncan]

The tech specs page at Dell confirms that the depth of the X50 is 16.9 mm (0.67").

That makes joint deepest of all the VGA PPCs (with the Asus a730/Loox v70). The Loox 720 is 1.7 mm less and the iPAQ hx4700 2 mm less.

Our VGA chart has been updated according (see link in sig below).

[azhiker]

Check out the discount of the X50v @ $463. :D

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/pda?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

[PJE]

Check out the discount of the X50v @ $463. :D

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/pda?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Isn't the $463 for the QVGA 520MHz version... I can only see two free games as an offer on tn X50v.

[azhiker]

I was hoping the lower price of $463 was for the X50v but is actually for the QVGA model. Sorry! :oops:

I was hoping but can wait till the discounts do hit their website. Afterall we all have to wait till Nov 17 anyway.

[Doug Raeburn]

I was hoping but can wait till the discounts do hit their website. Afterall we all have to wait till Nov 17 anyway.

I hate to be a pessimist, but based on the experiences of buyers of other VGA Pocket PCs that have been recently introduced (iPAQ 4700, ASUS A730, Loox 720), I wouldn't bet the ranch on that 11/17 date. Several dates were missed, revised, missed again, revised again, etc. with these others.

[ADBrown]

The tech specs page at Dell confirms that the depth of the X50 is 16.9 mm (0.67").

That makes joint deepest of all the VGA PPCs (with the Asus a730/Loox v70). The Loox 720 is 1.7 mm less and the iPAQ hx4700 2 mm less.

Our VGA chart has been updated according (see link in sig below).

I just measured the thickness of my X50v, and it is 16 millimeters.

[cab124]

Does anyone know anything about the next version of Windows Mobile, or approximately when it is supposed to be released?

I usually try to get 1.5 - 2 years out of a PDA. If I buy a new X50v or HP 4700 and then Microsoft releases a new version of the OS in 6 months, I will be bummed. Seems like it not safe to assume an upgrade will be offered.

I wonder if the day will ever come when the PocketPC market will become more like the desktop market....

You buy a case, an LCD screen, some RAM, ROM, etc, and a copy of Windows Mobile and build it yourself!!!! Then when an upgrade comes out, you upgrade one or two components and do the upgrade. Would be nice!!