Pocket PCs & Embedded Cameras

[Jonathon Watkins]

In the past while you may have noticed that I've made a few posts about cameras being embedded in <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=254223">Smartphones</a> and <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=254532">Pocket PCs</a>. There's been some really good discussions in these threads, but I am really interested in the actual numbers of folks who have opinions about the matter. In some polls we get over <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28418&">2000 votes</a>, in a thread with 30 different people commenting in it. So, I would like to know the options of the silent majority. :lurking: <br /><br />The poll questions are as they are – OK? I know that some opinions will be missed, but six options is a lots as it is. Remember that we are looking for what your current thoughts are, so for example I will be voting for "No. I would like one, but I go to some places that won't allow them". This of course means that the next Pocket PC I buy *won't* have a camera embedded, as I would not be able to take it everywhere with me. <br /><br />So, get voting and I'll get working on my 'Thought' post / mini poll, which I will soon post. That'll then be the last embedded camera post from me for a while. Honest! :wink:

[dean_shan]

It'll be cool to have a camera but I wouldn't pay much extra for it. Maybe $40 max.

[jimski]

Remember that we are looking for what your current thoughts are, so for example I will be voting for "No. I would like one, but I go to some places that won't allow them". This of course means that the next Pocket PC I buy *won't* have a camera embedded, as I would not be able to take it everywhere with me.

Couldn't agree more (and as a result voted the same way). While I would love to have every bell and whistle in my next PPC, I would rather do without something that would limit where I could use it (excepting BT of course).

I currently have a Sony-Ericsson T610 and have not used the built-in camera since the day I got it. I would gladly poke it's eye out, if needed, to get through security. Although I regularly accompany our sales people on visits to Fortune 100/500 companies for presentations, I have yet to be stopped with my silly phone camera, probably because I am not venturing into any really secure areas (mostly conference rooms).

I do carry a nice Casio Exilim that takes good pictures (2.0MP) and includes a flash. I will always advise our client that; a.) I have a camera in my bag, and b.) Will only take it out if permitted to do so. I respect their privacy and would never do anything to compromise that respect.

I don't want to prevent someone who really wants a device with a camera from having one so please manufacturers, either make all of your phones/PPC's with two versions, with and without cameras (which would be very costly), or create consumer & business product lines, (leaving the cameras OUT of the business version) which will disappoint some, but "Oh well".

[Oleander]

I simply cannot understand the fascination for having a 0.02$ plastic lens and a lousy CMOS chip embedded in a perfectly good device!

If I want a camera, I'll go buy one! :evil:

I use my PPC a lot of places where I probably would have it confiscated for having a camera.
IIRC I can actually get fined for using a device with a camera in a lot of public places.

Now what I would like were for a camera that had BT in it...

[surur]

The numbers are a bit difficult to analyse, but if you exclude the people who actually hate cameras (34%), then 31 of 371 people (8%) are not able to use cameras because of their work.

Surur

[pr0vider]

I have a wonderful, small dimensioned digital camera that I keep in my car's glove compartment for either planned or spontaneous pictures; I don't like compromises and prefer to use my PDA as a PDA.

[Ryan Joseph]

I find these numbers a little disturbing, actually. I have a camera on my i-mate and it's one of my favorite features. I use it all the time. The resolution isn't great, but it's perfect for spontaneous pictures.

I also LOVE the ability to snap a picture and email it instantly through GPRS. Real time picture email. It doesn't get much cooler than that.

I'm sure I'd feel differently if I worked somewhere where cameras weren't allowed, but for now, I love my i-mate...and it's camera! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[sesummers]

They'll have a high resolution camera capable of video and stills, in both visible and infrared bands; they'll have high quality, wide frequency range sound capture, they'll do motion and sound level detection, so you can just leave one on a shelf to monitor a room, having it send a message when it detects something, and of course, software defined radio that does bluetooth, WiFi, ultra-wideband, and all the cellular networks, and while they're at it, tune radio and TV, with the ability to record. They'll have fuel cells with at least 24 hours of running time, and terabytes of storage capacity.

All these things are inevitable- the technology already exists- it just has to be perfected and commercialized. (Except for the storage capacity, but we know that doubles every year, so if that continues, a terabyte is about 8-10 years away.)

So, eventually I'll want a PDA with a camera, but they're just not good enough yet!

[Jonathon Watkins]

The numbers are a bit difficult to analyse, but if you exclude the people who actually hate cameras (34%), then 31 of 371 people (8%) are not able to use cameras because of their work.


Not THAT is selective reading! :wink: Currently, over half of folks do NOT want a camera in their PDA and that's being generous and not counting the "No. I'm waiting for the quality/resolution to improve to an acceptable level" votes.

I have to say, even though I personally don't like cameras on PDAs I'm pleasantly surprised by the strength of feeling against embedded cameras.

Lets see how the voting develops as the rest of the US wakes up, but at the moment - there is a strong reason for OEMs not to include cameras on most of their new PDAs.

[glinsen]

If you need a camera, get a dedicated one.

The only thing that I would like to have regarding camera's and PPC's is connectivity. OK, some brands (e.g. Canon) have media compatible with your PDA, so you can get your photo's on a PDA when desired. But that's not universal and not good enough. I want a BT connection to my photo camera: file and photo mgmt on the PDA, file transfers. And what about remote control ? Ever tried to control a powerpoint presentation using a cell phone with BT. Works great, so why not for camera's.

BT will allow you to connect to other devices with BT as well amongst cell phones.

[surur]

The numbers are a bit difficult to analyse, but if you exclude the people who actually hate cameras (34%), then 31 of 371 people (8%) are not able to use cameras because of their work.


Not THAT is selective reading! :wink: Currently, over half of folks do NOT want a camera in their PDA and that's being generous and not counting the "No. I'm waiting for the quality/resolution to improve to an acceptable level" votes.

I have to say, even though I personally don't like cameras on PDAs I'm pleasantly surprised by the strength of feeling against embedded cameras.

Of course I disagree (of course I would :) ) The strongest argument against having a camera in the ppc is that it will restrict where you can take it. If you add in the people that hate the cameras, it shows that only 5% of people are so restricted, and can not have cameras due to their work - an even smaller percentage.

The other arguments (added cost, bulk, poor resolution, battery drain (?) ) are all alot easier to overcome, and will be overcome in time. Its kind of like infra-red on a pocketpc. Nice to have, but Ive never used it at all. Im sure it adds bulk, and I could have a button there instead or a second SD card slot etc. But in the end its not that big a hassle.

Now the real question is: Will the 17%+19% of people who actually look for it as a feature, plus the 5% and 15% of people who dont really care (56% total) increase sales of camera devices more than the 40 % who are looking for the opposite.

And of that 40% 35% can change their mind without losing out. Only 5% are completely stuffed, as their work requires no camera.

Surur

[MarcTGFG]

The poll numbers are somewhat hard to read.

But I'd say that the numbers are a little bit skewed against cameras by

1. the poster saying that he doesnt want a camera in his PPC
2. only two yes options, but three no options being available

You could include an option "Yes, if it doesnt become too big" to balance the options.

I read the numbers as being 1/3 being strongly against cameraphones, 5% undecided and the rest open to buying a cameraphone.

And this community is mostly techies and probably has a higher than average percentage of IT professionals.

I'd venture to say, that in the populace even more people want a cameraphone, due to mostly subjective reasons, like wanting to capture some moments in their life when they dont bother to carry a camera around.

I am sure, that in 10-20 years. Most people will buy a camerphone instead of a separate camera. Watch out Kodak, Nikon, Olympus, Sigma, Minolta, Fuji, Canon!

[Pony99CA]

I voted yes if the cost is reasonable. Unless you have to go someplace that doesn't permit cameras, I see no real reason not to have a camera in a PDA if it doesn't increase the price of that PDA much.

Having the camera gives you more options. If you don't like the quality, don't use it. But, even if you hate the quality, there might come a time you'll find you use the camera for one reason or another.

My personal bias is to have features that give me options (like iPAQ sleeves (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28886) :-D).

Steve

P.S. To save the moderators some work, please do not discuss iPAQ sleeves here; those discussions belong in the thread I kindly linked to. :-) I just brought them up to support my love of extra features.

[Steven Cedrone]

I have to say, even though I personally don't like cameras on PDAs I'm pleasantly surprised by the strength of feeling against embedded cameras.

Lets see how the voting develops as the rest of the US wakes up, but at the moment - there is a strong reason for OEMs not to include cameras on most of their new PDAs.

So long as you remember that your sample is being taken from a population of power users and not the average PDA guy/gal on the street (who probably don't even know of the existance of all of the PDA sites we know/love/visit every day :wink: )

Steve

[Oleander]

And of that 40% 35% can change their mind without losing out. Only 5% are completely stuffed, as their work requires no camera.Surur

You can't make that assumption!

I am among the 35% (at that time) that voted that I would avoid to buy one. That doesnt mean that if I changed my mind, I would not be forced to ansver: "No. I would like one, but I go to some places that won't allow them"

[Jonathon Watkins]

The poll numbers are somewhat hard to read.

But I'd say that the numbers are a little bit skewed against cameras by

1. the poster saying that he doesnt want a camera in his PPC
2. only two yes options, but three no options being available

The poster has a name you know! ;-)

For the first point, well, I think folks can make up their own mind. Who care what I think – I'm just doing some news posts and creating topics for discussion. I don't agree with the second option as I tried very hard to be fair. There are two 'I want it' replies and one 'I want it but not yet. There is one neutral option and one 'No way' option'. The interesting part is the 5th option, which is 'Yes, but No'. So I would say that I honestly feel that if anyting, the poll is boast twards embedded cameras.

The problem is, I could have an infinite number of options. I was very strongly encouraged to keep this poll to 5 responses anyway, but could not quite fit all the responses I wanted in it.

Currently 42% don't want/cant have one, 35% do want one, 15% want one when the quality is better and 5% don't care. That argues to me that there is a definite market for PDAs without cameras. The new iPSQ 6300 comes in two flavours – with and without camera. I hope that other manufacturers will learn from this and offer a cheaper, camera-less PDA version of camera embedded models.

[Pony99CA]

The numbers are a bit difficult to analyse, but if you exclude the people who actually hate cameras (34%), then 31 of 371 people (8%) are not able to use cameras because of their work.

Not THAT is selective reading! :wink: Currently, over half of folks do NOT want a camera in their PDA and that's being generous and not counting the "No. I'm waiting for the quality/resolution to improve to an acceptable level" votes.

I have to say, even though I personally don't like cameras on PDAs I'm pleasantly surprised by the strength of feeling against embedded cameras.
As of the time I'm writing this, only 36% really don't want one. 35% want one, as long as the price is reasonable, and another 15% want one if the quality is better. (I would have phrased the "No. I'm waiting for the quality/resolution to improve to an acceptable level" as "Yes, but only if the quality improves".)

Furthermore, another 6% do want them, but can't have them because places they go restrict them. So it seems that about 58% of the people would want a camera, compared to only 36% who really wouldn't.

To further nitpick the poll, the question and the answers don't really match up. The question asks "Do you think your next Pocket PC will have a camera?" but the responses are more indicative of desire than fact. Even people who actively don't want one might accept one if the Pocket PC had all the other features they desired and they didn't have any restrictions on where they could take them.

I would have asked "Do you want a camera in your next Pocket PC?" and provided answers similar to those you did (although the quality and restriction answers would have been "Yes" answers).

Steve

[Brad Adrian]

It'll be cool to have a camera but I wouldn't pay much extra for it. Maybe $40 max.
You may not have to. Looking at the example being set in the mobile phone world, the price consumers pay for the added camera is often negligable. The problem I can see is that so far these cameras are such compromises in terms of functionality and quality.

[Fishie]

I simply cannot understand the fascination for having a 0.02$ plastic lens and a lousy CMOS chip embedded in a perfectly good device!

If I want a camera, I'll go buy one! :evil:

I use my PPC a lot of places where I probably would have it confiscated for having a camera.
IIRC I can actually get fined for using a device with a camera in a lot of public places.

Now what I would like were for a camera that had BT in it...

Urm bleutooth cameras exist you know.

[Brad Adrian]

To further nitpick the poll...
Please resist the urge to do that. :)

We know that these polls aren't scientific. And, as it seems like you do know a bit about questionnaire design, it is very difficult to develop questions that are MECE (mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive). These are meant to be quick-and-dirty, fun little polls.

Now if you'd like to see numbers that you can really hang your hat on, I'd be happy to sell you some Gartner reports! :)

[Pony99CA]

It'll be cool to have a camera but I wouldn't pay much extra for it. Maybe $40 max.
You may not have to. Looking at the example being set in the mobile phone world, the price consumers pay for the added camera is often negligable. The problem I can see is that so far these cameras are such compromises in terms of functionality and quality.
You don't even have to wait. Viewsonic was (and maybe still is) offering a $100 rebate on the V36, which includes a camera. I got my daughter one before last Christmas for about $150 after rebates. That's not too bad for an XScale Pocket PC with Windows Mobile 2003, 64 MB RAM and a digital VGA camera.

Steve

[Fishie]

The numbers are a bit difficult to analyse, but if you exclude the people who actually hate cameras (34%), then 31 of 371 people (8%) are not able to use cameras because of their work.


Not THAT is selective reading! :wink: Currently, over half of folks do NOT want a camera in their PDA and that's being generous and not counting the "No. I'm waiting for the quality/resolution to improve to an acceptable level" votes.

I have to say, even though I personally don't like cameras on PDAs I'm pleasantly surprised by the strength of feeling against embedded cameras.

Lets see how the voting develops as the rest of the US wakes up, but at the moment - there is a strong reason for OEMs not to include cameras on most of their new PDAs.


And now YOU are reading way to much into this.
This is a sampling of people who are almost all uniformly gadget adicts, people who go out and buy top range stuff for bragging rights or do weird things just becouse they can.
this is not a sampling of general consumer behaviour, the general consumer loves the camera in their cellphone or Zire71 despite those cameras sucking and being well below the quality that we find acceptable.

You are just looking for a way to validate your own personal feelings and bias.

[Jonathon Watkins]

To further nitpick the poll....

:twak: Guys, I asked you not to do that.......

No poll is perfect. I did consult and take different poll viewpoints on board before creating it, yours included Steve. :?

[Pony99CA]

I am sure, that in 10-20 years. Most people will buy a camerphone instead of a separate camera. Watch out Kodak, Nikon, Olympus, Sigma, Minolta, Fuji, Canon!
Actually, it should be sooner than that. I recalling hearing about studies that said sales of camera phones will surpass the sales of digital cameras in the very near future (maybe this year, maybe next).

Of course, that may be because the phones people like happen to have cameras, not because of it, but that's another issue.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

To further nitpick the poll....

:twak: Guys, I asked you not to do that.......

No poll is perfect. I did consult and take different poll viewpoints on board before creating it, yours included Steve. :?
Relax, Jonathon, there's no need for violence. :-D I wasn't complaining about the options, and I realize the issues that Brad pointed out.

I brought the issue up so you could clarify the intent of the poll, because, to me, the question and answers are incongruous. Are you really asking if we believe our next Pocket PC actually will have a camera, or are you asking if we want a camera in our next Pocket PC?

I may be off, but I took the intent of the question as "Do you want your next Pocket PC to have a digital camera?" and so I voted "yes, if the cost is reasonable". However, if I took your question literally, I would probably have answered "no, because the model I'm considering won't have one" (the iPAQ 4700 Explorer).

Steve

[surur]

And of that 40% 35% can change their mind without losing out. Only 5% are completely stuffed, as their work requires no camera.Surur

You can't make that assumption!

I am among the 35% (at that time) that voted that I would avoid to buy one. That doesnt mean that if I changed my mind, I would not be forced to ansver: "No. I would like one, but I go to some places that won't allow them"

A weakness of the poll!!! :) :) :twisted: :)

Obviously there should have been an option;

6) I hate cameras and my work would not have them in any case ;)

Surur

[rocky_raher]

They'll have a high resolution camera capable of video and stills, in both visible and infrared bands; they'll have high quality, wide frequency range sound capture, they'll do motion and sound level detection, so you can just leave one on a shelf to monitor a room, having it send a message when it detects something, and of course, software defined radio that does bluetooth, WiFi, ultra-wideband, and all the cellular networks, and while they're at it, tune radio and TV, with the ability to record. They'll have fuel cells with at least 24 hours of running time, and terabytes of storage capacity.


In other words, a tricorder. :-)

[Kati Compton]

7) I'm going to complain about any poll that's ever put on the front page no matter what.

Sigh. :roll:

[Brad Adrian]

7) I'm going to complain about any poll that's ever put on the front page no matter what.
Sorry, I don't follow you. You don't want polls on the front page?

[Pony99CA]

7) I'm going to complain about any poll that's ever put on the front page no matter what.
Sorry, I don't follow you. You don't want polls on the front page?
No, I'm sure Kati was being sarcastic about adding another option while pointing out that there's always somebody who complains about the format of the poll.

Personally, I thought poll kvetching was a sport here. I even thought I read that it was added to the Olympics this year. :twisted:

Steve

[Jonathon Watkins]

Personally, I thought poll kvetching was a sport here. I even thought I read that it was added to the Olympics this year. :twisted:

You know Steve, some folks might get a trifle hurt if their efforts keep being minutely inspected, dissected and rejected. Just a thought........

In fact, before this thread is split further, why don't we all..... :nonono:

[Jonathon Watkins]

And now YOU are reading way to much into this.
This is a sampling of people who are almost all uniformly gadget adicts, people who go out and buy top range stuff for bragging rights or do weird things just becouse they can.

Agreed, so they are more likely to want cameras etc.

You are just looking for a way to validate your own personal feelings and bias.

You are too kind Fishie. :wink:

So long as you remember that your sample is being taken from a population of power users and not the average PDA guy/gal on the street (who probably don't even know of the existance of all of the PDA sites we know/love/visit every day :wink: )

The fact that this sample is of 'power users' actually makes the point more starkly. These are the folks that often want every option/toy going. :wink: If this crowd is not convinced about cameras in PDAs then how much less will most 'normal' :wink: folks be?

I guessed that there would a fair number of folks that don't want/can't have an embedded camera, but it is honestly higher than I expected. Manufacturers take note. :idea:

[Kowalski]

having a built in camera can be cool because
- will have a big view finder.
- will have lots of storage for video files.
- and probably some software to make clips

i am looking forward to buy a asus a730!

[Myrddin]

I DO NOT want a camera in any future PPC purchases. I am simply forbidden from taking a camera into many of the areas I need to enter daily, having one built in to the device I carry would inconvenience me. I'd never use it anyway. I carry the smallest PPC I could find (4150) and the cheapest & smallest phone I could find (Nokia 1100) for a reason, so I can be highly portable with a minimum of fuss.'

I want to be able to choose whether I have a camera. I need WiFi and Bluetooth BUT I DON'T NEED A CAMERA.

[whydidnt]

What I see right now is that only 6% of the people don't want one of these becaue they are banned. A much larger percent say they will avoid one if at all possible because of lousy quality, extra cost, etc.

My question to those who answer they will actively avoid one.... have you voted with your wallet when it came time to buy that fancy new phone with a color screen, bluetooth, and a CAMERA? If not, then If I was manufacturing a handheld, I'd say, "there are a significant number of people who don't want this feature, but they don't feel strongly enough about it to NOT BUY my handheld with it (look at phone sales), so I'm going to put it in there to satisfy the 60% of the market that does because it's cheaper than manufacturing, marketing and supporting two separate lines of product."

I think the fact that only 6% don't want one because it is "banned" shows that there is truly a minority out there that truly CAN'T have an embedded camera and my guess is that manufacturers are more than happy to ignore that small percentage of the market. Sorry for you guys who are in this situation, though.... :(

[yslee]

More posts! Luckily I can still keep up. Phew.

I'm sure there are those who hate cameras and can't bring them to work. Surur's suggestion would've made things a little clearer.

Although the sampling is of power users, it can be argued that because we're mostly power users, we expect more from our gadgets, and to me, camera phones don't make the cut in terms of quality, hence the strong resistance to it. However not a weekend passes where I don't see a group of girls giggling as they take photos of themselves with their camera phones, or a couple taking their own photos with their phones (those swivel things are pretty handy, heh). I'm pretty sure that lower consumer expectations mean that integrated cameras might not do so badly in that market (particularly the youth crowd).

[Kerensky97]

As a power user I'm also one who thinks that if you want to take a picture worth keeping you don't use a camera that has a quality less than 640x480. Even most 2.0 MP cameras aren't worth buying IMHO (I have a Nikon coolpix 4500 for actual pictures). When I want a picture of something to keep permanently I want it to be as close to 35mm film as possible.

But there is use for low quality pictures such as pictures of a person for your contacts database. Even with a grainy camera you can usually get a good enough closeup of somebody's face to store with your contacts so you can identify them when you meet them again a year down the road.
It's especially helpful if your like me; you can remember names, and you can remember faces, but have a heck of a time remembering the two together.

So I guess I'm against a full function Camera/PDA hybrid but a cheap CMOS camera on a phone/PDA hybrid or on a bluetooth cell phone can be pretty usefull. Just snap a picture of a new aquaintance, send it to your PPC and write down their name and number before you forget it.

[Oleander]

Urm bleutooth cameras exist you know.

They do?

Could you provide me with a link, please?

We're not talking about the 100$ dinky-toys now are we?

When I mean camera it's at least something like this:

Ixus (http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital/Digital_IXUS_430/index.asp?ComponentID=156548&SourcePageID=26181#1)

And preferrably something like this:

Canon EOS 300 (http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_300D/index.asp?ComponentID=54127&SourcePageID=164046#1)

[Pony99CA]

Urm bleutooth cameras exist you know.
They do?

Could you provide me with a link, please?

The one I've heard of most (not including camcorders with still capability and Bluetooth) is the Concord Eye-Q Go Wireless (http://www.concordcam.com/products/wireless/wireless.htm). At 2 megapixels, I suspect that it doesn't meet your requirements, and the reviews I've seen have been mediocre. For example, check this PC World review (http://yahoo.pcworld.com/yahoo/article/0,aid,114494,00.asp).

There's also the Sony DSC-FX77 (http://www.gadgetmadness.com/archives/20030523-sony_dscfx77_40_megapixel_bluetooth_camera.php), which may be more to your liking at 4 megapixels.

A :google: using Bluetooth camera should find more.

When I mean camera it's at least something like this:

Ixus (http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital/Digital_IXUS_430/index.asp?ComponentID=156548&SourcePageID=26181#1)

And preferrably something like this:

Canon EOS 300 (http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_300D/index.asp?ComponentID=54127&SourcePageID=164046#1)
So you want to send 4 or 6+ megapixel images over Bluetooth? :lol: One picture might be OK, but I can't imagine sending a day's shooting. I think you'll be better off pulling the media card and popping it in your Pocket PC.

Plus, if you put another media card in, you can use your camera right away. With a Bluetooth camera, I'd be worried that sending the images would lock the camera until transmission was finished.

If you're really high-end, though, you could try a 17 or 22 megapixel camera from Creo (http://www.creo.com/global/products/digital_photography_leaf/leaf_valeo/default.htm). They have a Bluetooth backend available.

Steve

[MarcTGFG]

So long as you remember that your sample is being taken from a population of power users and not the average PDA guy/gal on the street (who probably don't even know of the existance of all of the PDA sites we know/love/visit every day :wink: )

The fact that this sample is of 'power users' actually makes the point more starkly. These are the folks that often want every option/toy going. :wink: If this crowd is not convinced about cameras in PDAs then how much less will most 'normal' :wink: folks be?

Jonathan, I think you are wrong with that assumption. The people here might be gadget addicts, but many are IT professionals and just want a PPC to do the things they need to be done. Most of the moderators here have an IT job, as do you.

Compare that to the general public, the mass market for cameraphones. They just love to take pictures spontanously. And even if they dont, they dont have anything against the fact, that their phone is capable of doing so, maybe just to show off to their friends and colleagues.

I wish, that manufacturers go on producing business lines of their products as many are doing right now. Thats a legitimate interest you have. But I dont think it is legitimate to ask manufacturers not to include cameras in MOST or ALL of their phones and PDAs, because you'd like to be able to buy and use ALL these models ALL of the time (including at work). That would impose the necessity and will of a small minority (6%) upon the vast majority who dont have any problem with a camera in there.

[substring]

Some companies, esp those in defense contracts, do not allow any camera phone. And so are Federal buildings. That's the first question the security guards will ask when they see a PDA or cell phone... does it has a camera?

Unless they come up with an embedded camera with 5 megapixels resolution, 3x zoom, white background manipulation etc etc, I don't see the need to have that in my mobile device. I rather use my Canon for photos.

[Brad Adrian]

One partial answer to the security problem that cameraphones pose is to force the manufacturers to build in an audible sound when a photo is taken which cannot be turned off by the consumer. Of course, that means you won't want to use it during events like weddings, but that's part of the trade-off, I guess.

[Pony99CA]

One partial answer to the security problem that cameraphones pose is to force the manufacturers to build in an audible sound when a photo is taken which cannot be turned off by the consumer. Of course, that means you won't want to use it during events like weddings, but that's part of the trade-off, I guess.
My LG VX6000 makes a noise (which I have turned off), and I don't think it would be that distracting during a wedding. With other people standing up to take pictures (or video), flashes going off and so on, what's a little shutter sound? :-)

Of course, unless somebody wants to send pictures of the wedding as it happens, I don't see much use for a camera phone at a wedding. It's a planned event, so using a real camera would be more appropriate to get the better quality.

That said, with moblogging, I suppose we will see more and more weddings and other events as they happen.

Steve

[Newton Ford]

I had to choose the top answer - I would actively seek... but in reality I've already got - and what's more Plague and damnation wouldn't separate me from my inbuilt cmos camera :D I could hardly wait for the upgrade from the XDAI to XDAII just for the camera.

Now I don't know if I qualify as a 'power user' but I daily use my PDA to survey sites entering findings into my custom designed Access database and adding on average 400+ directly linked nice low resolution images (of which my 128Mb SD card will hold > 8,000!!!). I spend an average of > 8 hours working time and kill batteries (two are constantly charging in the car) and kill a PDA in an average of 10months.

The only criticism I have of embedded cameras at present is a lack of real zoom & a bios to short range images as they are designed for social use.

When used socially the longest single video I have taken is > 10minutes with good picture & sound quality to boot :wink: .

[Barbay1]

I voted that I would get one if it doesn't cost too much.

I currently have a camera in my PDA and my cell phone -- it wasn't a feature that I was looking for, but I'm enjoying it while I have one.

I use my PDA when shopping for baby-to-be and use its camera to take pictures of items for the baby registry. Then we upload the pictures to our web page. For that purpose, we don't really care that much about resolution.
Also, when baby gets here, we'll be able to multimedia message the picture to relatives & friends email with my cell phone -- how cool is that?

The problem is, I like having one, but I go to places that don't allow one. So it actually decreases the useability of my PDA in those places. Wish that (in future PDAs) the camera could be handy (i.e. secure when attached), but also removable and portable at the same time.

[Janak Parekh]

The fact that this sample is of 'power users' actually makes the point more starkly. These are the folks that often want every option/toy going. :wink: If this crowd is not convinced about cameras in PDAs then how much less will most 'normal' :wink: folks be?
Jonathan, I think you are wrong with that assumption. The people here might be gadget addicts, but many are IT professionals and just want a PPC to do the things they need to be done. Most of the moderators here have an IT job, as do you.
I think you hit the nail on the head. People here are more likely to have separate digital cameras, as they want/can afford/etc. one -- whereas with the general public, who may want a device that can casually take a snapshot.

I voted in the "yes, if it doesn't cost too much more" category. I almost never use the i700's camera - but you know, it's really handy to have one for those spontaneous moments when I'm not carrying around a real camera. :) If I can get an embedded camera that gives me good 2MP resolution, that'll be sufficient for 75%+ of my photos. :)

--janak

[Prevost]

I also voted "yes, if it doesn't cost too much more". Since I'm in many cases the link between office architects, engineers, and the "real world situations" I can say for sure a photo tells more than a thousand words. But it is not so easy to carry on the belt a camera along with the default measuring powertape and PDA, so a PDA with camera would be handy. To this point, I just haven't found a PDA combining photo quality, size, power AND looks :mrgreen: to make me purchase my PDA BECAUSE it has a camera.

I guess many people here have said already, there should be options in the market, not forcing us to make choices or trade-offs. If so, I think the very same. Sadly, as I have said of Sony products, inclusion of cameras in cellphones and PDAs has more to deal with flashy display of gadgets and of manufacturer's "technological reach" than it has with real needs. Particularily, this is true about PDAs more than with cellphones, since PDAs (as I see them) are more professional-oriented tools (working tools you expand into entertainment tools, I mean :wink: ) than cell phones, which market is wider, reaching people who will never consider owning a PDA.

To me, the expected iPAQ h6300 (if I'm not wrong with the model) is a clear example of this: wireless conectivity, phone, camera, and, a 200Mhz processor??? Is this going to fulfill power users' needs?