So, These are the Smartphones that will Kill PDAs?

[Jonathon Watkins]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/36692.html' target='_blank'>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/36692.html</a><br /><br /></div>The Inquirere and the Register have articles up about smartphones. I’ll let the titles speak for themselves: <a href="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15075">"Smartphones are rubbish, survey says"</a> and <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/36692.html">"Smartphones not up to scratch: official"</a>. <br /><br />There’s been a fair bit of talk about how smatphones were going to decimate sales of PDAs, but it looks like things aren’t all going smartphones way: The Reg reports that: "research among business Smartphone user focus groups has shown that many have concerns about quality, functionality and customer service." But apart from that things are fine right? <br /><br />"Key problems encountered by members of the focus group included core data services - such as MMS - not working properly, the complexity of setting up services and poor quality of support. One HR manager commented: "Feedback has been mixed; as a tool Smartphones are very useful but the set-up has caused more than a few headaches."" Ah, I guess not then. :wink: <br /><br />The Inq says: "According to Andrew Wyatt, VP of marketing at Intuwave, only 40% of IT managers have confidence in Smartphones as a business tool. We're surprised as high a percentage of IT managers think that. The rest think they're devices not nice to have, inadequately tested, can involve product recalls that are "costly and embarrassing", and difficult to set up. Wyatt said that Smartphones are taking on many of the functions traditionally associated with the PC, and the industry, he appears to be suggesting, needs to apply diagnose and fix tools associated with desktop devices." Joy, Norton for Phones. Just what I was looking for. :roll: <br /><br />So, Smarphones. How have you guys been getting on with them? It’s the (new) old argument; do you want a PDA that has phone function, or a phone that has PDA functions, or one of each?

[Cipr0]

I have been using a Treo 600 w/ Goodlink, never having to synch again and getting darn near instant email. (15 seconds from the time it hits my desktop its on my phone)

I can not imagine going back to a 2 device system. The abillity to click on a phone number inside an email and have the phone dial the number may be my favorite, and it is much safer while Im driving.....the call log that goes back on EVERY call ever made.....I can now go back 3 months......and find that phone number of the guy who called me.....awesome stuff.....

Im not a multi media user.....my treo is pretty much hardcore biz only....I do wish it ran pocket pc.....but Im not going back...

Cip

[James Fee]

The front page of today's (Tuesday) Arizona Republic (http://www.azcentral.com/) had an article titled "PDAs out, smart phones in (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0406pda06.html)" along with the companion article in the Business section titled "Smart phones expected to make PDAs history (http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/0406pdabiz06.html)". Two different viewpoints I guess.

My own thoughts are if camera phones can replace digital cameras, why can't smartphones replace PDAs?

[rzanology]

heres my thought....

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26662&highlight=

[Jonathon Watkins]

My own thoughts are if camera phones can replace digital cameras, why can't smartphones replace PDAs?

Depends what you mean by replace. I have just bought a Canon Powershot Pro1. Show me a camera phone that can do even a fraction of what the real camera can do. Even folks that have cameraphones have real cameras (digital or film-based) when they want to take pictures they really want to keep.

In the same way, a smartphone can't touch a e805 in it's ability to perform a variety of tasks.

However, most people will probably end up using a smarthphone as manufactures are adding more and more features. If something is 'good enough' - why bother upgrading to the extra that a PDA will give you?

[James Fee]

Depends what you mean by replace. I have just bought a Canon Powershot Pro1. Show me a camera phone that can do even a fraction of what the real camera can do. Even folks that have cameraphones have real cameras (digital or film-based) when they want to take pictures they really want to keep.
I was thinking more low end than middle to high end. Sony has already stated that is why they are getting out (http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,5086) of the low end camera market. I don't own a camera phone because the quality isn't good enough for me, but many people have decided 2 MP is good enough. A e800 user may need that extra features, but a Axim or iPAQ user may not.

[Zack Mahdavi]

I think smartphones have potential... the Treo 600, for example, is by far the best smartphone I have ever used. I have a cell phone and a Pocket PC in my pocket at all times.. why not merge them?

If a Pocket PC company can create a smartphone that's as good as or better than a Treo 600, I'll definitely be the first to buy one!

For now, I'll keep a Sony Ericsson T610 in one pocket and my iPaq 4155 in the other! :D

[dh]

I think smartphones have potential... the Treo 600, for example, is by far the best smartphone I have ever used.
I agree with you. The Treo 600 is far from perfect, but I don't believe any other Smartphone integrates the phone and PDA as well.

I would prefer to stay with PPC, but I'll be looking for the next generation Treo with much interest.

[adamz]

Definitely PDA with Phone functionality for me... and a Bluetooth headset with a little more phone functionality inside it.
Right now I use a Bluespoon Digital with an XDA II. The Bluespoon goes into my ear when I'm on a call, and goes into my pocket when not. The only thing that would be more perfect is if the headset could attach to the PDA so that I wouldn't have to keep the two in separate pockets.

The Phone-First Smartphone-PDA thing is flawed. Someday people will learn that using a number pad for inputting text is just a hack and utterly illogical. Maybe someday they'll also realize that holding something against your head to talk into for long periods of time is also a waste of energy. Since using the Bluespoon, I'm horribly frustrated when I have to use one of my hands to hold a legacy phone against my head. You might say it's faster to just pull a phone out of your pocket and hold it to your ear while pressing the answer button... but it's just as fast for me to pull the Bluespoon out of my pocket and press the answer button as I stick it in my ear. Of course, that's not so true with other Bluetooth headsets which require you to thread your ear through some kind of hook.

[freitasm]

core data services - such as MMS - not working properly

This is non-sense. Enterprise users will use synchronisation tools, configuration delivered OTA, customised, pre-defined and tested applications. A Smartphone being used by an executive is not a business tool until it's integrated with the enterprise directions.

Just because the CEO buys a phone and can't find her way through the menus to send a MMS doesn't mean the Smartphones are the problem. MMS is not a business tool, is it?

In this sense Smartphones are just being used as vanity/feature phones, like the Sharp GX10/20/30. Vodafone dropped a few of these to our upper management, and in less then a week they were all returned and replaced with real smartphones, not toys.

I know Intuwave is the company behind the mRouter for Symbian, but I'd like to know what they're trying to achieve declaring that their own product is bad :?:

According to O2 the majority of IT departments have no plans for wireless data. And this includes laptops, PDA, smartphones, RIM and what else.

[ctmagnus]

"Kill" is such a harsh word.*

I never believe any technology will kill any other technology, regardless of how much the other technology deserves to die (BetaMax, memory stick, one or two non-Sony products...), until I see it with my own eyes.

*With the exception of the phrase "Hah! I kill me!"

[jngold_me]

The death to PDA's will be dealt by devices like the Motorola MPx.

A device like the MPx (priced accordingly) will relegate a PDA to those who absolutely must have a slightly larger screen (smaller than a laptop) of course.

Just my .02

[dorelse]

I'll admit that I'd be very very interested in the Treo 600 IF it was 320x320, or better yet 320x480, with a pull down thumboard for the rest of the screen.
(I of course do realize the battery implications...)

I'm personally not willing to go back to 160x160. Maybe the next Treo will be the ticket...or the benq. Both PPC & Palm are fine by me...so for me its the form, but I also was something better than the old lo-res screen of the current model.

For now its my T3 and 4355.

[yslee]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Treo 600 a PDA with very well integrated phone functions?

[ignar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Treo 600 a PDA with very well integrated phone functions?

I know what you mean. For me and many typical PDA users, phone is one of the features added to the PDA to enhance the usability, not the other way around. I always think convergence device as a PDAphone, not a PHONEpda. That said, I think Handspring tried to make Treo 600 more like a phone rather than a PDA, and it really upset me. I've used Treo 600 for about four months by now, and got used to it, but low-res screen still bothers me a great deal and I'm eagerly waiting for the release of new PocketPC phones.

[jimski]

Oh, 8O so this is why everyone is clamoring for VGA. :multi: So you get everything that's on that 3.8" screen and squeeze it into a 2.2" :deal: screen at say 2pt. That should be a real pleasant experience. At least it will be a crisp 2pt.

When they can get that 4" VGA device and squeeze it into the SE 616 form factor (guess we will need a fold up screen), without any compromise, I might start to get interested. Until then, just stay away from my PPC form factor. No phone sized SmartPhone will ever replace what a full feature PPC can do (or will do).

I look forward to the day when your PPC is your CPU and your 200GB drive with a nice 4" screen and your laptop is nothing more than a docking station. Oh, and neither have anything to do with a phone.

[Trimac20]

I personally think that, far from Smartphones relacing PDAs there will be a trend where more and more PDAs will also act as phones. And smartphones will become more and more like PDAs. One can easily see the direction this is taking: convergence of the two devices. Soon the seperate terms for 'Phone' and 'Handheld PC' will be meaningless when we will be confronted by treo-like PDA/phones.

But as for Camerphones replacing proper digital cameras....the thought of them having any real significant (for a LONG time) is laughable. I used to think my Nokia 3650's camera took decent pictures, but after buying a digicam I don't even use it (the 3650) for random snapshots.

Smartphones are becoming more advanced, and so are PDAs, so it is possible in the future we will have virtually eliminated the two seperate categories.

[marlof]

Personally I like the Treo form factor. I'm more data centric than voice centric when it comes to phones, but still I use my phone for voice conversation every now and then. And I rely on my PDA for many of my personal data. So whether it is a PDA with phone capabilities or a phone with PDA capabilities, it should be a good PDA and a good phone. I had some trouble with this when I was using the Jornada 928. It was ok as a PDA, but it was a lousy phone.

The Treo on the other hand is not a solution for me. I like to do some instant messaging when I'm away from the desk as well. And as it happens, I like to look things up when doing that instant messaging. According to the reviews I've read, with the Treo, going to a second program would close my instant messaging window and logging me out of the IM system. Until the Palm OS gets some real multitasking, I won't use a multipurpose device running that OS.

My hopes are for the benq p50. Not much bigger than the Treo, but running Windows Mobile Phone Edition, and having a thumbboard built in. :)

[bibap]

I recently got a Samsung i600 Smartphone and, much to my surprise, I find that I am using it more than my PPC. Power Calendar and Power Tasks give me just what I need for these functions. Mobipocket allows me to move my ebooks from my PPC to the phone and the screen is large enough for easy reading. ListPro lets me use my databases and Keep Track for money take over these functions too. I'm not much of a gamer, but there are a few good ones for the phone, too. I never expected this to happen, but I am leaving my PPC behind more and more often.

Of course for GPS use I still need, and use, the PPC, but now Mapopolis has come out with a Smartphone version. However, there is no way to connect a receiver to the i600 and the screen is really too small to use for in-car use. It makes a handy reference program, however, if you want to have a map with you at all times.

[sub_tex]

According to the reviews I've read, with the Treo, going to a second program would close my instant messaging window and logging me out of the IM system.

Without going too far off topic, there are IM programs like Chatter http://www.imchatter.com and Verichat http://www.verichat.com/ which let you use any other program and still receive IMs. I've used Chatter and when an IM comes in and I'm in a different app, a small chat window pops up where I can quickly reply and continue with whatever work I was doing.

This IM ability is no replacement for full OS multitasking, though. It's just a nice workaround that lets you have the IM experience you would expect, on your phone.

[Yo Boss]

Am I the only person in the world to want a dumb phone?

I don't want to surf the web on my phone, but I would do it on my PDA. And I don't want to carry my PDA everywhere. If I am out clubbing or even jogging, the very minimum I want to carry is my phone.

The ideal would be a tiny bluetooth enabled phone, and my H2210 with a software such as Running Voice GSM. No PDAphone or Phone PDA does much better as we speak.

But those stupid phone manufacturers keep on cramming their phones with cameras and PDA features... The smaller bluetooth phone (which I own) is still the Ericsson T68i... A three-year old phone!!! :bad-words:

I don't always need a camera, and I don't always need a PDA, but I always need my phone...

[Wiggin]

Am I the only person in the world to want a dumb phone?

Nope, there are millions out there saying the exact same thing...that's why, IMO, pda's will never displace POMPDs (Plain Old Mobile Phone Devices :D ).

But, to stay on topic, I do believe that smartphones, executed as PDA's with phone capabilities, WILL dramatically impact the sales of POPDAs (Plain Old PDAs). Imagine if you will ....
PDA with top end cpu, 4" VGA screen, large storage, CF and SD expansion slots, integrated WiFi and BT, integrated keyboard, MSMobile 200x OS, PLUS full GSM/CDMA capability!... all in a sleek/slim form factor! :drool:
Who wouldn't buy one of those instead of a POPDA???

The OEMs know this! They will get it all together soon, but... evolution can be frustratingly slow :grumble:
:way to go:

[jngold_me]

And I don't want to carry my PDA everywhere. If I am out clubbing or even jogging, the very minimum I want to carry is my phone.


Exactly my point regarding the Motorola MPx. The best of both worlds in a small form factor!

[KenClunk]

In another thread about the MPx I wrote:


Either way I say to forget about the PPC phone. Don't get me wrong that looks like a crazy thing and it would be the one to go with if you go with any but to me I like to have my things seperate.

I'd imagine that the camera is decent but it's onlt 1.3 megapixels plus the flash is probably not that good. And it doesn't have all of the options that a normal digital camer does.

The phone service will have I'm sure will be okay. But obviously it is GSM and we all know that GSM is no where near as good as CDMA currently.

The PPC will have all the availablities as othe PPC's which is good However the screen is not as big. Yeah the keyboard is laid out the best I've have ever seen built in, but My fingers are defintially too big to handle that on a daily use. My overall thing about PPC/Phones is that they look bulky. I don't like talking on wide phone with the LCD next to my face getting smudges all over it. The screen is too small for a PDA and too big for a Phone.

Overall I'd be afraid of breaking it. The flip sreen being able to flip both ways is ahead of our time. None the less I can see my self flipping it open a little to fast and having the LCD fall and the screen scratch.

That is defintially the most perfect PPC/Phone and truth be told if I had all the extra money... I might go for it. But as of right now I like to have my Camera, my Phone, and My PDA seperate.

[KenClunk]

In another thread about the MPx I wrote:


Either way I say to forget about the PPC phone. Don't get me wrong that looks like a crazy thing and it would be the one to go with if you go with any but to me I like to have my things seperate.

I'd imagine that the camera is decent but it's onlt 1.3 megapixels plus the flash is probably not that good. And it doesn't have all of the options that a normal digital camer does.

The phone service will have I'm sure will be okay. But obviously it is GSM and we all know that GSM is no where near as good as CDMA currently.

The PPC will have all the availablities as othe PPC's which is good However the screen is not as big. Yeah the keyboard is laid out the best I've have ever seen built in, but My fingers are defintially too big to handle that on a daily use. My overall thing about PPC/Phones is that they look bulky. I don't like talking on wide phone with the LCD next to my face getting smudges all over it. The screen is too small for a PDA and too big for a Phone.

Overall I'd be afraid of breaking it. The flip sreen being able to flip both ways is ahead of our time. None the less I can see my self flipping it open a little to fast and having the LCD fall and the screen scratch.

That is defintially the most perfect PPC/Phone and truth be told if I had all the extra money... I might go for it. But as of right now I like to have my Camera, my Phone, and My PDA seperate.