Did anybody see that new Mel Gibson movie yet?

[karinatwork]

It's called "The Passion of the Christ".
I saw a few pieces of the trailer and I had to look away.

Just wondering if someone saw it yet and if it's really that awful. I don't know if I will be able to go and see it if it's going to make me feel horrible.

I feel like I am sticking my head in the sand, being a good catholic and all, I know the story inside out and maybe I am supposed to go see it and be shocked and deeply moved one more time.

I don't know what to do. Ever since I saw those pictures I can't forget about it. I went through "Cabin Fever", "Wrong Turn" and "House of 1000 Corpses" no problem, but those were fiction. This really happened.

So, if anyone has seen it, I would like to know what you think.

Thanks!

K.

[dean_shan]

Nope havn't seen it yet, but I want too. But yeah I know what you mean. I can watch shows like ER and the like and not be grossed out. But I can't watch 'real' surgeries on the Discover channel. I get sick to my stomach (I could never be a doctor). I belive that the mind can tell if somthing is real or not and you are effected accordly.

[karinatwork]

It's not even so much the blood or the gore that makes me feel bad. For me it's more the cruelty, the injustice I can't stand. I remember how bad I felt after watching "The General's Daughter" or "Braveheart". I makes me so mad! Got me in trouble a couple of times when I tried to break up a lopsided bar fight. Then I'm always lucky I'm a girl and even the drunkest guy has a little respect for a lady! :wink:

[famousdavis]

I attend a conservative, non-denominational church. It was really extraordinarily ironic that this past Sunday, each attendee received inside his or her bulletin a full-color brochure promoting this movie. I say ironic because, 1) I don't remember my church ever recommending any movie to the congregation before, but more importantly than that, 2) the "Passion" <u>is an R-rated movie!!!</u> 8O

[Anthony Caruana]

I'll be seeing it with members of my church (http://www.holytrinitydoncaster.org.au)tomorrow night )in about 22 hours from now). Although I know the story well I am somewhat disturbed by the promotional material showing the incredible cruelty that the Lord suffered at His crucifiction.

I must say, that like many of the others that have posted to this thread, that I can't recall a church ever promoting a movie in this way. I read the other day in some newspaper that Mel Gibson's maketing of this movie will be studied in text books for his use of churches in the film's promotion.

[baker]

Our church is going next weekend. Everything I've read on it says it is about as close to the actual as best they could do and know.

[Jon Westfall]

It sounds like a movie I want to see, and more importantly, would love to show (when it comes out on video / dvd) to my 8th grade religion class. Now, getting the directory to approve will be another issue. What really amazes me is the negative media bias toward the movie. If you put out a movie about any other religious group being persecuted (i.e. Schindler's List) it would be hailed as a triumph for that group. But if you make it about Christians, in the US, you'll get no praise. It really irks me that you can't make fun of any religion unless its christianity. Its more socially acceptable to label 99% harmless Christian Fundamentalists as wackos than extreame followers of Islam.

Ok, I'll get back on topic...

I'd be interested in seeing it unsubtitled as the directory originally wanted - it would allow the viewer to appreciate fully the action, not the (aramaic) dialogue. I guess I'll have to wait till DVD.

Jon.

[Steven Cedrone]

This off-topic thread is about a movie, I understand that. But I want to remind everyone that discussion about religion is no longer allowed in this forum. That being said, I won't lock this thread...

But let's not stray from the original question. "Have you seen the movie?"

Steve

[dmy]

Heh, I was worried a bit that this might degrade into a religeous debate, so I'm glad Steven stepped in to remind us.

I also have a comment to Jon, and in fact to anyone else who wants to take their kids to see this film as several church groups are planning on doing just that:

PARENTS: PLEASE see this film BEFORE taking your kids to it.
Group leaders/teachers/etc: PLEASE consult the parents of any kids in a group BEFORE taking the kids to see it.

I'll leave the discussion and decision to the readers to debate (who, how young is too young, etc.)..... but I want to say that this film contains imagery that may be too much for many people.... and it needs to be up to the parents to help in making an INFORMED decision where their kids are concerned in seeing this film. I'm not, nor will I generalize that anyone shouldn't see it.... but parents shouldn't assume that just because this is a film about a particular subject that it's appropriate for all ages. If you see the film, and then make the decision that your kids are capable of understanding, discussing, and dealing with the film and the way the story is presented, by all means do take them.

Hmmmm..... I may have stayed out of the religious discussion... but did I devolve into the political?

Cheers,
D.

[Jimmy Dodd]

I haven't seen it yet, but intend to. From what I've read from people who have seen it: yes it is gory, no they don't sugar coat the torture, and no, don't take the (little) kids to see it.

With that out of the way, most people who have seen it say that it is extremely uplifting and that you won't come out feeling "horrible." It may move you to tears at times, but so should the final scene.

Of course I don't want to spoil it for anyone by giving away the ending. :wink:

[dean_shan]

the "Passion" <u>is an R-rated movie!!!</u> 8O

Well cause Jesus death was violent. Mel wanted to make this as realistic as posibble.

[Pat Logsdon]

Without getting into anything political or religious, I think it's interesting to see the scholars coming out of the woodwork regarding this film's realism.

For example, I've heard from a few sources that Latin was NOT spoken by anyone but the religious elite at the time. Rather, Greek was the predominant language spoken, along with Aramaic.

Also, no one would have been able to carry an actual full-size cross such as the Romans used. The Romans being very efficient, they left the the vertical pieces in the ground and had the victims carry the crossbeams.

There was also no messing around with loincloths - no clothing was allowed, regardless of age or sex.

[PetiteFlower]

I attend a conservative, non-denominational church. It was really extraordinarily ironic that this past Sunday, each attendee received inside his or her bulletin a full-color brochure promoting this movie. I say ironic because, 1) I don't remember my church ever recommending any movie to the congregation before, but more importantly than that, 2) the "Passion" <u>is an R-rated movie!!!</u> 8O

I don't think it's weird for the movie to be R rated, it's not like it got that rating for sex or language. Think about it--the BIBLE is pretty R rated isn't it? Full of sex and violence and war and other things not-so-good for children. The real bible wasn't meant for children, it was meant for adults to study, and find ways to teach it to their children so that they'd understand. Don't think that there are a lot of Jews here, but I am so that's where my example comes from: During the passover seder(dinner ceremony where the story of Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt is told), there is a part where there are 4 questions asked by the youngest child present who is able to. Most people have heard of that part :) The next passage though is about how to ANSWER the question to different dispositions of children--The wise son, the simple son, the wicked son, and the son who does not know how to ask a question. Only the wise son does it advise to tell the whole story with all the details; the others are given simpler versions to suit their understanding.

So anyway considering the movie is about the life and death of Christ, and the death part was pretty cruel and bloody(I'll tell you when I learned the cause of death for people who are crucified, I was pretty sickened) and not good for kids to see--doesn't mean it's not good for adults to see. Same with say, Schindler's List. Not pretty, but real, and important to watch.

I don't think I'll see it, but the conversations I've heard being sparked by this film are really interesting!

[Jimmy Dodd]

For example, I've heard from a few sources that Latin was NOT spoken by anyone but the religious elite at the time. Rather, Greek was the predominant language spoken, along with Aramaic.


I think the entire movie is in Aramaic and Greek.

It also has subtitles for the one or two people in the audience who don't speak it. :lol:

[Pat Logsdon]

Actually, I believe that it's in Latin and Aramaic. Here's a BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3515997.stm) that goes over a few of the inaccuracies that have been pointed out.

It's an interesting read.

[drop]

This is a movie. Not a documentary. Even movie maker focused on realism, being 100% historical correct still is not the primary goal.

I probably won't see it. Heard from a friend who did that even though everyone was prepared for it, the images were still shocking.

[Pat Logsdon]

This is a movie. Not a documentary. Even movie maker focused on realism, being 100% historical correct still is not the primary goal.
I totally understand that - my comment was simply based on my hope that the movie will make others want to learn more about the period of history portrayed in the movie.

As an artist myself, I respect that Mel Gibson is simply telling a story in the way that he thinks is best, based on the goals he has in mind.

Of course, he simply may not have known that he was portraying some things incorrectly, but as far as I'm concerned, those things are just interesting factoids - nothing more. :mrgreen:

[wizardmaster2k]

the movie looks good. i work at the theaters so i should have no prob seeing it. im not religious or anything, but it still seems good.

[sullivanpt]

My wife is dragging me off to see it Saturday, largely because her favorite conservative talk show host said something to the effect of, "only commies and liberals won't wait in line to see this movie! They don't want you to see it. Defend America." etc., etc.

I love Mel Gibson movies, especially Braveheart, and I'm looking forward to seeing this film too. But I sure do get upset when most of the world around me can't differentiate brilliant marketing from issues that are truly important. My life will NOT be raadically altered if I don't get to see this film before it comes out on DVD. The whole hoopla just reinforces my belief that many people amongst are about as smart as cattle. :cry:

(Please, no offense intended. I'm using colorful language and marketing speak to make my opinions seem more worthwhile!).

[Anthony Caruana]

OK - I'm just home from seeing The Passion of the Christ. This is a very graphic movie. However, that's not the important part here - the movie is very confronting.

At risk of raising the ire of the mods here (sorry guys, but it's hard to talk about this movie without mentioning religion at least a little) I'm going to say a couple of things.

Christ said, more than once, that his blood would be shed for the forgiveness of our sins and transgressions. Now, that's a whole lot of sin and therefore, much blood was spilt. The Passion shows a lot of that blood.

As another poster mentioned in this thread, The Bible is a sometimes very violent and confronting book. There are many stories of war, the test of Isaac and God asking him to sacrifice his only child and Job. However, despite the graphic nature of these things they are not gratuitous.

The Passion is very graphic and I certainly won't be letting my children see it for many years (my oldest is 6). But I don't believe that it is gratuitous.

As for my feelings. At different times I felt angry, sad and, at the end, uplifted. Christ didn't die for the forgiveness of sin in a general sense; He died for the forgiveness of MY sins. This is why I have a personal relationship with Him.

Finally, would I recommend it? If you are a Christian then I highly recommend it. It does an excellent job of pulling together the different accounts of Christ's life in the four Gospels. If you are movie lover then I think there is a lot to appreciate in this movie. The score and cinematography is brilliant. Although subtitled, the movie is very easy to follow and keeps moving.

This is not a movie that you can come out of and say "I loved it" (at least IMHO). It is, however, a movie that will move you and make you feel.

Karina, in your original post you mentioned that you weren't sure you'd see it. See it, but don't see it alone. Take a friend because you'll want to talk about it afterwards (at least I did)

[Palmguy]

I'm seeing it tonight with some of my friends from my church's college group...My sister (who I live with) just saw it on Wednesday and said that it was very powerful.

Thanks for the mini-review Anthony, I imagine that after I see it my thoughts will strongly echo your own.

[karinatwork]

Thank you very much for your review, Anthony. I have thought about it a lot in the last two days, and this is what I came up with.

I wasn't there when it happened. I will never be able to experience it. I will have to trust the bible on how it unfolded, and on what I learned from how the priest who was teaching me the backgrounds when I grew up. I think I am going to pass on seeing the story through Mel Gibson's eyes.

When I look at the cross that's hanging in my bedroom (or any other cross for that matter), I feel love and comfort. I am afraid that if I go see that movie, these feelings will be overshadowed by the enormous amount of fake movie blood and slow-motion torture scenes.

Thanks everyone for your opinions. And especially THANK YOU for keeping this discussion open, friendly and polite. :)

K.

[MagicConch]

Movies near me are really expensive. I only go to see ones I really want to see, so I probably will skip this one.


OT: I am impressed with this board; most threads of this topic on any other board I've seen would have derailed into a mess by now.

[ale2999]

great movie. very grafic but I dont think that is an issue as probably worst happened.

[Palmguy]

Not really sure what I can say after seeing it but wow. I've heard accounts of the severity of the physical beating that he received, including specifically what that style of whip would absolutely shred someone's back. It's completely different actually seeing it.

I'm definitely grateful for Mel Gibson and the whole crew that made this happen, for though there are some historical inaccuracies, the movie is very powerful and many people are seeing it.

[Godsongz]

My wife and I went to see it last night, and aside from echoing the WOWs and restating again how incredibly powerful and affecting the film is I just want to add this one thing...

There were a few younger children in the audience, presumably with parents who pushed adise the R rating to take their kids to a Jesus movie... DON'T. Had this film -not- been about Christ, it would surely have had an NC-17 rating. Leave the kids at home and tell them about the film later and how it affected you. Let 'em see it when they grow up.

[sullivanpt]

As you know, I wasn't looking forward to being part of the herd, crushed in to see and over-hyped film. I did see it, I wasn't crushed. In fact, the theater was only 75% full. To the films credit, they're showing it on five screens, so that's still quite a few people viewing it. (I saw it in Emeryville, CA, USA).

The only real bad thing I can say about the film is the story was difficult to follow, and that has nothing to do with the subtitles. The movie assumes you know the story in advance. I did read this story previously, as many of us have ;-). ut in the movie I found myself consistently leaning over and whispering, "Who's he?". "Was that that in the story originally?"

Also, for the first 15 minutes it was a little slow getting started.

On to the good.

The violence is absolutely overrated. Not worse than most oter block-buster films I've seen. Certainly nothing like Braveheart, Patriot, Pulp Fiction, Gladiator, or half a dozen mobster films I've seen. Yes there is a lot of blood, but I saw very little gore. No heads nor arms chopped off. Just a LOT of hitting, slapping, whipping, and superficial skin damage. My wife is fairly conservative, she thinks it's not suitable for children under 12.

The Passion is just that, a very passionate and moving story. I cried twice, my wife cried throughout the film. I'd recommend it to anybody who either wants to learn from other's interpretations of an important story, or anyone who enjoys drama for it's own sake.

(Oh yeah, and off topic, the woman in the seat in front of me was using a wireless Palm Pilot before the film started. We need to do some more evangelism!)

[dmacburry2003]

(Oh yeah, and off topic, the woman in the seat in front of me was using a wireless Palm Pilot before the film started. We need to do some more evangelism!)

LOL, if there was a movie called The Passion Of The Palm I would love to see screens cracked and buttons ripped off :wink:

BTW, I think The Passion was on Real Time With Bill Maher last night.

[Stik]

It's not even so much the blood or the gore that makes me feel bad. For me it's more the cruelty, the injustice I can't stand.

Wow Karina, this is what always bothers me the most!

My wife and I saw the movie last nite, and I must say that Mr. Gibson did an absolutely incredible job of bringing the 14 Stations of the Cross into vivid, brutal reality.

I won't dwell on that part, but instead, I'll make observations on the audience that attended. I've never gone to a movie where the theatre was so quiet and somber. It was if everyone was holding their breath thruout the entire performance. Looking around, one could see tears running down cheeks and folks tightly gripping their armrests or their partners when the torture was so keen ( which was most of the movie ) as to be almost uunbearable and heart breaking to watch.

When the lights came back on and folks started heading for the exits, there was still total silence in the crowd. I think the multitudes were numbed by what they had just witnessed, although I'm sure most knew the story explicitly. I also witnessed a courtesy among the patrons that I've never seen before in a theatre. Folks waiting and letting others out of their seats to get into the main aisles, nodding to each other with small smiles without words being exchanged. It was if everyone knew Luke's "Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last" verse.

In that light, I think the movie made people self examine themselves, and if even for a very brief period of time, no matter what race, color or creed, everyone was each others brother and sister, and there was a peace and a kind of understanding between all.

Personally, that made the event totally worthwhile for ourselves.

Thanks for your brilliant adaptation of an event that changed humankind Mel.

[Jon Westfall]

I also have a comment to Jon, and in fact to anyone else who wants to take their kids to see this film as several church groups are planning on doing just that:

PARENTS: PLEASE see this film BEFORE taking your kids to it.
Group leaders/teachers/etc: PLEASE consult the parents of any kids in a group BEFORE taking the kids to see it.


First of all, I saw the movie today, so you don't have to worry about me. I would NEVER show my students anything I hadn't pre-viewed, to do so invites problems from a myriad of locations.

That beign said, the movie was as moving as many say, and a good wake up call whenever someone thinks THEY have it hard...

And Karin, I agree with you - Looking at a cross should give peace & love as that's what He stood for. Looking at a crucifix, however, should give a sense of sacrifice and remind us all of how His death embodied how we should live, in my opinion (Apologies for waxing religious... but as Anthony said - its really hard not to!)

[wigglesworth]

I have not see the movie yet, but I am looking forward to seeing a closer depiction of Christ's crucifixation as found in the bible. I chuckle when I see most pictures of Christ on the cross, they tend to look like someone went over with an airbrush!
" Many were amazed when they saw him*—beaten and bloodied, so disfigured one would scarcely know he was a person" Isaiah 52:14
Holy Bible : New Living Translation. 1997 . Tyndale House: Wheaton, Ill.

[David Prahl]

I saw it Saturday night - very graphic but accurate.

I disagree about the level of violence, sullivanpt. I've seen Braveheart, Patriot, Gladiator, and Saving Private Ryan, and the violence is The Passion is much more graphic.

When watching any other violent R-rated film, you know subconsciously that it never happened. In The Passion, you know that all of it happened - maybe worse.

I enjoyed how Gibson added Satan and the demons to the film. They helped show the stuggle the characters were going through.

Yes, the Jews speak Aramaic and the Roman soldiers speak latin (which I can sort of understand).

I would strongly recommend that anyone over 16 see it.

[PetiteFlower]

Just a general thought. One does not need to SEE or EXPERIENCE graphic violence in order to know it. Seeing such things can make some people more keenly appreciate what they have or what they believe or what their ancestors went through. But for other people it would only be upsetting and bring them further from understanding and comfort instead of closer. So I don't think there should be a blanket statement of "christians should/should not see this movie" because it will not be helpful to everyone's faith.

I thought it was important for me as a Jew to see Schindler's List and see the horrible things that were done to my people, to go to the holocaust museum and force myself to truly understand what was done, apart from the descriptions of the camps and the massive numbers of dead people and the academic stuff that I learned in school and hebrew school. It was hard to watch, painful and upsetting, but for me it was good. I think the more we're aware of what happened, the more sensitive we can be to the possibility of it happening again, not only to the Jews but to any persecuted people (Bosnia anyone?). But not everyone needs that kind of images to understand. I would advise any Jew who did not feel personally affected by the holocaust to see it. For some the upset is worth what you get out of it, for others not.

So I think everyone would really need to make this decision for themselves.

[Enderet]

In The Passion, you know that all of it happened - maybe worse.


I wanted to know if anybody else could clear this up for me but in the credits... there is a small segment that says that all characters are ficticious and the rest of that stuff, how there might be some similarities...blah blah blah. :?

Anybody else see this in the credits? Because besides David, there was at least one more person who said that this really happened...

[sullivanpt]

David, I wholly agree with you that the violence seems more graphic. And I agree that my subconcious is affected differently by the fake gore in Friday the 13th and Pulp Fiction.

I think the film did an astounding job of juxtaposing serene scenes with violent scenes with scenes of his crying mother to amplify the emotional impact of the violence.

Private Ryan, Braveheart and the Patriot are also very much based on fact. And my recollection of my experience of watching the violence in these films is that the effect on my subconcious was similar. I was shocked by the scenes and became very empathetic with/towards the real life people on whose lives the characters were based.

I may have to re-rent the above two movies to compare, but my recollection is there was a lot more gore in them. I specifically remember a head rolling down the field like a canonball.

Contrast that with the blood in The Passion, which although plentiful, was similar to the sorts of lesser injuries I've experienced several times myself. If you've ever needed stitches in your scalp, you know just what a bloody mess that can be.

Not that I'm volunteering to be whipped to within an inch of my life mind you! I'm just pointing out that nobody's head was removed, and entrails weren't splattered up on the camera. In comparison, the Passion was quite tame. I don't think this film deserves the violence centered criticisms it has received.

I whole-heartedly agree with you that nobody NEEDS to see this violence to become a better person or to understand the religous message. Viewer discretion is advised.

[David Prahl]

SPOILERS BELOW!

-How about when he was being flogged? The camera didn't cut away for anything. Seeing a fake head roll 100 yards away in "Patriot" is different from seeing someone getting whipped with shards of glass up close. And when the glass lodged itself in his side, only to be ripped out by the soldier?

-The nails. What is there to say? That is about as violent as you can get.

-The spear in his side. Pretty graphic!

[sullivanpt]

Good points. And now that you remind me, I do remember thinking during the spear scene that there was more blood than I expected a dead man to be capable of spilling. I'm a little hesitant to discuss this further for fear of offending the more pure of heart of amongst us.

Besides, I'm still chuckling at that "SPOILER'S BELOW" note. :D
Reminds me of the telephone call I made to a friend of mine after I'd seen it but before she had. I said, "I don't want to ruin the movie for you or anything, but one of his closest friends betrays him!"

[David Prahl]

I guess a spoiler is impossible - his story is the most communicated story in history. I meant that I would be giving specifics about the film that some people would not want to know about before hand.

I thought about making a thread about this Saturday night, but thought it too volatile a subject. It's wonderful to see that we're discussing it maturely.

[Enderet]

In The Passion, you know that all of it happened - maybe worse.


I wanted to know if anybody else could clear this up for me but in the credits... there is a small segment that says that all characters are ficticious and the rest of that stuff, how there might be some similarities...blah blah blah. :?

Anybody else see this in the credits? Because besides David, there was at least one more person who said that this really happened...

Anybody?

[David Prahl]

I watched all of the credits but didn't see any messages like that.

[Enderet]

The credits read....

"The the characters and events depicted in this photoplay are ficticious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidential".


:(

[David Prahl]

The credits read....

"The the characters and events depicted in this photoplay are ficticious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidential".


:(

8O
I can't believe it!

[Pat Logsdon]

The credits read....

"The the characters and events depicted in this photoplay are ficticious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidential".
:( 8O
I can't believe it!
It's a legal thing. If that disclaimer wasn't there, some guy who looks like the guy who played Judas in that movie would sue the producers for slander and defamation of character. :roll:

[David Prahl]

I understand (from a legal perspective). But to word it that way almost dismisses the entire Passion as a myth - a folktale.

Stick in a few nouns and it reads:
"The the character of Jesus Christ and his death depicted in this photoplay are ficticious."

Some people would call that blasphemous.

[Kati Compton]

I suggest we stop discussing whether or not the events happened or not, and just stick to the movie itself. Thanks.

[karinatwork]

One does not need to SEE or EXPERIENCE graphic violence in order to know it.

That's what I was trying to say earlier. I feel like I know the history, I've grown up with it, I have my own imagination to depict exactly what happened. I do NOT want to see it in every detail.

[Jimmy Dodd]

One does not need to SEE or EXPERIENCE graphic violence in order to know it.

That's what I was trying to say earlier. I feel like I know the history, I've grown up with it, I have my own imagination to depict exactly what happened. I do NOT want to see it in every detail.

I think that's a valid point of view for a decision that everyone has to make for themselves.

I believe the film is an attempt to portray accurately just how much suffering was endured which is an important fact of Christianity, especially considering that it could have ended at a single word from Christ.

[sublime]

I'm a little late, but I just saw the movie today.

The movie itself was well done, but slipped up artistically at the end. I really loved the use of flashbacks in the movie. That one when Mary sees Christ fall made me cry because it was so perfectly beautiful. Where it slips up is near the end where the flashbacks begin to lose relevance to the situation at hand. Near the beginning of the movie, Christ or someone else would see something specific, then a memory would be triggered. This was not true of the Last Supper memories, and because of its lack of a trigger they felt a little incongruous. As for the actual triggered memories, they were flawless.

The last scene wasn't what I expected. It was aggressively suggestive, rather than subtly and effectively intimated as the rest of the movie. We see Christ stand up with a serious face and then storm off screen with a hole in his hand. Gibson was really trying to drive his point home then, and I think it lost its taste for that. If Gibson would have cut that tiny part out, but left the sinking in of the wrap, and perhaps had the people (I forget who comes into the grave) say that "he's gone," then fade to black, it would have been perfectly subtle, and I would have praised it greatly.

That scene of Satan screaming when Christ dies is too much. Blah, just tasteless. It was perfect when Christ steps on the serpent's head, because it is a direct allusion to Adam and Eve's expulsion from Eden. But that Wizard of Oz-ish "I'm melting! I'm melting!" bit should have been cut out.

Overall: 7.7/10