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View Full Version : Pocket PC Minds Reviews the Blackberry 7210


Jason Dunn
10-05-2003, 05:00 AM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketpcminds.com/miraserver/article.php?id=150' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketpcminds.com/mirase...icle.php?id=150</a><br /><br /></div>I've never used a Blackberry myself, so I found this review by a fellow Pocket PC user to be enlightening. Check it out!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/blackberry.gif" /><br /><br />"Now that I have been using my Blackberry 7210 from AT&amp;T Wireless for several weeks I thought it was time to post an article on it. Now seeing that we are currently a Pocket PC oriented website I know some people may ask why. I would answer this by saying that we hope with our product reviews that we can help people make educated decision on what devices best meet their needs both from a personal and professional stand point. Also look for some changes in the devices we cover coming over the next few weeks. Unlike Pocket PC’s and Palm OS devices that I have used in the past this device is meant for one handed operation. Now this is no a slam on the other devices it just different. As a power user of handhelds, well as least I think of myself that way. There are things I like and things I dislike..."

JustinGTP
10-05-2003, 06:25 AM
So are you posting this up for us to make an important decision on whether to go with palm or pocket pc? :lol:

mclaughlinc
10-05-2003, 06:32 AM
So are you posting this up for us to make an important decision on whether to go with palm or pocket pc? :lol:

I never been describe as the sharpest nail in the bucket but I do not know what you mean by this statement. This artilce is the first of several I am planning on writing about Research in Motion wireless technology. What may not be clear now is the that Microsoft, HTC, Symbian and Palm have all licensed RIM's wireless technology. So one of the next articles I am writing will discuss how these companies plan to use this technology in their future products. Also what that means to owners of devices that have this technology when you are connected to a BES server.

I for one am surprise at what I am finding out and what I think this means.

kel_cheng
10-05-2003, 06:40 AM
I had myself used a BlackBerry before (it was 5810 and 6710 series).
The wireless email feature is not only useful, but downright addictive. I found myself emailing to colleagues in the middle of the night, on the bed. :lol:

However, BlackBerry's PIM and other software offering is really lacking. If that technology is developed over on other platform with proven hard- / soft-ware, it could be amazing.

Btw, RIM's so called attachment viewing feature is kind of... :cry:

dh
10-05-2003, 03:10 PM
So one of the next articles I am writing will discuss how these companies plan to use this technology in their future products.

It is going to be very interesting to see how this technology is implimented in new PDAs and Smartphones. I assume that the Good Technology system that Dell is working with is a competitive alternative.

As you mentioned in your article, the e-mail in the Blackberry is great but the other features are lacking. A device that provides this level of e-mail support with full PDA functionality will be fantastic.

mhoepfin
10-05-2003, 05:51 PM
Anyone thinking about this, should also consider looking at the Danger Hiptop Color Sidekick (Tmobile). I have had one for almost a year and love it. It replaced my Ipaq and cell phone for day to day use.

I still use the Ipaq for GPS/MP3 in the car though...

acronym
10-05-2003, 06:33 PM
been thinking about both of these devices for quite some time. But until they come with bluetooth or similar technology for wireless headsets and data transfer, l'm not buying.

iPaqDude
10-05-2003, 07:19 PM
Until lately, I had viewed the RIM products with some distain and was trying to steer my company away from them and into a more pure-play PDA-type of direction. After doing a some fairly extensive research, product evaluations and demos, - and soul searching - I have really done a 180 on these devices.

If you put mobile devices into a couple of categories - laptops, tablets, full-function PDAs and basic function/PIM devices, then start disecting your user population and aligning their needs/wants/real requirments, you start finding out that there is indeed a segment - primarily the executive/high-level decision makers - that are only really requiring the type of basic mobile functionality and real-time accessability that the RIM-type devices give.

And now that they have bundled in the cellular via the AT&T or Nextel deals, the appeal to the executives is even greater. They really represent more of a converged device - albeit rudimentary - than do many of the PDA/phone devices that are in use.

Anyway, my .02 on these. I am a diehard Pocket PC power user, but will more than likely start letting these devices in to satisfy the need of our upper executive level needs. Actually, we are probably one of the few Fortune 200 companies that are not using them....

bdegroodt
10-05-2003, 08:21 PM
I gave up my iPaq about 3 months ago to move to this BlackBerry (BlueBerry for those on the "inside") and it was a real eye opener for me. I found in the end that MP3 playback and higher resolution displays to "watch movies" was a far cry from my real needs in a PDA.

The biggest gains I got from the BB are the obvious ones...always on email and the keyboard. I can fly on that thing and I've been using a stylus to input to PDAs for many years. In the old days of stylus input I'd have a mini debate with myself about if an email was worth responding to. With the BB, it's a simple simple task and I don't hesitate to send responses.

That said, be careful what you ask for. The final straw for my wanting to move back to a BB was always on email. I used to resent manual downloads of email on my iPaq. I'd do it when I thought about it and sometimes emails that were urgent weren't responded to for an hour or 2 because I didn't download them until then. SO...With the BB, they come almost instantly. Great. Right? I still believe so, but the rub is that email comes on the BB's terms now versus my old iPaq days when it came when I was ready. I've had to be very mindful of rejecting the call of the BB at the dinner table or when out with friends (you know when you're supposed to be sharing with them).

Aside from that, I'd say RIM should investigate adding a real spell checker and as the reviewer mentioned, attachment support is pretty poor (It'll open the usual suspects, but that's not to say you'll like what you see.). If the PPC camp can get a keyboard and BB functions combined with their OS, it might be an intersting device (Battery life aside). Speaking of which, I've had my device off charger for over a week with phone use and no off time and haven't even received a battery warning. RIM did a great job on the battery issue. I could go on, but in all big thumbs up on this device.

Oh yeah, one more thing, I think you could use this thing as a hockey puck and it wouldn't be any worse for the wear. I drop mine all the time and have not had a single worry or issue with it. Very well built device. Had to post this addition after reading about the 2215s falling apart.

jake
10-05-2003, 09:00 PM
Jason,

Can you please explain to me why when I try to offer a different enlightening perspective with the Treo 600 you brand me a troll but when you do the same thing with the Blackberry it is just peachy keen???

After all they are both devices that are designed for one handed operation?

Jason, I told you years ago that I though you should not be closed minded with PocketPCThoughs.com and also talk about the competition because in the final analysis we ALL want the best tools!!!

Jake

ctmagnus
10-05-2003, 09:16 PM
The wireless email feature is not only useful, but downright addictive.

That's why they're referred to as Crackberries. :)

ctmagnus
10-05-2003, 09:24 PM
Can you please explain to me why when I try to offer a different enlightening perspective with the Treo 600 you brand me a troll but when you do the same thing with the Blackberry it is just peachy keen???

probably because

What may not be clear now is the that Microsoft, HTC, Symbian and Palm have all licensed RIM's wireless technology.

whereas the Treo 600 is strictly a Palm OS-based device. There's a reason this site is called Pocket PC Thoughts and not Palm Thoughts or even PDA Thoughts.

(But then I'm just guessing here.)

dh
10-05-2003, 09:29 PM
Jason,

Can you please explain to me why when I try to offer a different enlightening perspective with the Treo 600 you brand me a troll but when you do the same thing with the Blackberry it is just peachy keen???

After all they are both devices that are designed for one handed operation?

Jason, I told you years ago that I though you should not be closed minded with PocketPCThoughs.com and also talk about the competition because in the final analysis we ALL want the best tools!!!


Jake, Does the Treo 600 (which I personally believe is the best converged device so far, dispite thelow res screen) have the RIM e-mail technology or is that for the future?

jake
10-05-2003, 10:01 PM
Jason,

Can you please explain to me why when I try to offer a different enlightening perspective with the Treo 600 you brand me a troll but when you do the same thing with the Blackberry it is just peachy keen???

After all they are both devices that are designed for one handed operation?

Jason, I told you years ago that I though you should not be closed minded with PocketPCThoughs.com and also talk about the competition because in the final analysis we ALL want the best tools!!!


Jake, Does the Treo 600 (which I personally believe is the best converged device so far, dispite thelow res screen) have the RIM e-mail technology or is that for the future?

I believe it has similar email technology. I think you are refering to Palm Liscensing the RIM e-mail technology and that would be relevant because Palm recently bought Handspring. I do not believe they have incorporated the RIM technology in yet.

I hope this anwers your question.

Jake

bdegroodt
10-05-2003, 10:05 PM
Jake, Does the Treo 600 (which I personally believe is the best converged device so far, dispite thelow res screen) have the RIM e-mail technology or is that for the future?

No it does not. It has some similar type offerings that aren't as deep as RIM's, but are a leap ahead of the PPC offerings to date.

HOLLYWOOD_
10-05-2003, 11:40 PM
The biggest gains I got from the BB are the obvious ones...always on email and the keyboard. I can fly on that thing and I've been using a stylus to input to PDAs for many years. In the old days of stylus input I'd have a mini debate with myself about if an email was worth responding to. With the BB, it's a simple simple task and I don't hesitate to send responses.


Amen. When my company's IT department first deployed the BlackBerry, I was reluctant and did not want it to replace my PPC. 18 months later I find my PPC in the briefcase with only minor use. The BlackBerry's always on email has truely changed the way business is done, not only for me, but for all who use it at our Company (approx 5,000 "crackberry" users). :!:

When I first heard the rumor about the upcoming IPAQ 4000 series, I was excited that the device I had been longing for was just around the corner. Sadly, it looks to only have Wi-Fi, and does not use any RIM technology.

Jason, give us BB users a reason to still have faith that PPC will come around!

Kati Compton
10-06-2003, 12:04 AM
Can you please explain to me why when I try to offer a different enlightening perspective with the Treo 600 you brand me a troll but when you do the same thing with the Blackberry it is just peachy keen???
Because in the posts I've seen you make lately, you've been very antagonistic, basically saying that everything else sucks besides the Treo 600. That type of post leads to an unfriendly environment, and is not encouraged.

Jason, I told you years ago that I though you should not be closed minded with PocketPCThoughs.com and also talk about the competition because in the final analysis we ALL want the best tools!!!

This is Jason's site. He can do with it what he wants. Those that find it helpful/interesting/fun are welcome to post and read and enjoy. Those that are looking for something else, might find something more appropriate elsewhere. There isn't a rule that says that Jason has to cater to everyone.

Anyway, we do talk about the competition when there's something specific and relevant to discuss, and it can be done rationally.

Please stay rational on this thread.

Jake - if you wish to discuss this further, email moderator@ or jason@.

dh
10-06-2003, 01:07 AM
In fact, over the last few days, we have discussed pa1mOne and POS (I love those names!) more than MS and PPC.

There has been some good debate all in a very friendly tone. Of course the site is going to have a PPC biase but none of the admins and mods are MS drones. (Well, one does stray in that direction from time to time, but that's OK)

bdegroodt
10-06-2003, 01:09 AM
so anyway...about that BlackBerry...

Foo Fighter
10-06-2003, 01:57 AM
Can you please explain to me why when I try to offer a different enlightening perspective with the Treo 600 you brand me a troll but when you do the same thing with the Blackberry it is just peachy keen???

Because you do it constantly. Jason was right to brand you a troll. Your "perspective" is no more enlightening than that ridiculous Bullet Train UI concept you keep preaching upon us like Moses coming down from Mount Sinai holding the Ten Commandments. I like the Treo 600 as well, in fact I intend to purchase one if Verizon makes it available. But you don't see me incessantly posting pro-Treo comments on a PPC site. Enough is enough.

JustinGTP
10-06-2003, 02:09 AM
Free will is a good thing, it makes life much more interesting! :D

-Justin.

Steven Cedrone
10-06-2003, 03:18 AM
Please, discuss the Blackberry 7210...

That is the topic, after all...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

RaySPNL
10-06-2003, 03:39 PM
I've been using an iPaq for a couple of years now, but lately ive been using for mp3 playback while riding the subway... then in my car i attach the gps card, but that's rare since i dont go out of the city too often. I have a blueberry and it does everything i need, contacts, calendar, phone, emails, sms, aim, find some basic information. im thinking on selling my ipaq on ebay, keeping my blueberry and getting a 40 gig ipod :wink:

bdegroodt
10-06-2003, 03:53 PM
I've been using an iPaq for a couple of years now, but lately ive been using for mp3 playback while riding the subway... then in my car i attach the gps card, but that's rare since i dont go out of the city too often. I have a blueberry and it does everything i need, contacts, calendar, phone, emails, sms, aim, find some basic information. im thinking on selling my ipaq on ebay, keeping my blueberry and getting a 40 gig ipod :wink:

Exactly what I did. Although this weekend I maxed out my iPod. Never thought I'd do that.

scottmag
10-06-2003, 04:02 PM
Can someone who's actually used a Blackberry phone device comment on the form factor? It seems like it would be very uncomfortable as a phone (I think the PPCPE's would be as well) and it's a pain to always have to attach a headset. I understand the benefits of the keyboard, but it creates a wide boxy device that doesn't look as comfortable to use as a PDA or phone. There is a competing phone device with a keyboard that is much narrower, but I won't bring it up in this thread because the waters have already been poisoned.

Scott

scottmag
10-06-2003, 04:12 PM
Oh, I have something else to add. This pertains to PocketPCs and BlackBerries. It seems that an important advantage to both platforms is the integration with enterprise email servers. This looks great for those of you that make extensive use of those resources. But I view handhelds/phones/PDAs as personal devices. I don't want to carry around a device that's tethered to my company's email/scheduling server. I want to carry around a device for my personal use that ALSO works with the corporate resources I want. Maybe that distinction is only important to me. But think of all the personal uses you have for your PocketPC. Now, would you trade all that in for a device that was tightly integrated into your corporate servers - one that gave you instant access to company email and the ability to access corporate scheduling? Would you want to trade for that device if you could not add anything of your own and had only the tools that your company gave you?

Scott

bdegroodt
10-06-2003, 05:43 PM
^^In response to 2 posts above^^

Very comfortable as a phone device. I rarely use the headset. Only complaint I would have is the same one I'd have about every mobile phone on the market right now. It lacks the concaved form of a handset (think office or home phone) and thus makes getting a "seal" over the ear impossible. But that's no different than any other mobile phone.

Regarding the Exchange versus personal email thing...If you use T-Mobile that's not a problem at all. I sync with a BES for corporate mail and POP accounts/Outlook for personal (via the BB web client) and have no problems with contacts/calendar/email being out of sync.

One addition that's proven suprising to me. The phone's reception is very good. I didn't expect much for reception (especially since it's GSM) but it's been very clear and capable of holding signal without issue.

RaySPNL
10-06-2003, 08:25 PM
the only thing i dont like is as mentioned above, its missing the concave shape like most phones, and sometimes you have to position ur ear the right way. but other then that, its great as a phone. if u recieve an email with a asignature which includes a phone number, you can just right click on it, and dial or add to address book. going to the address book, select the name and hit he scroll wheel, then it prompts you if you want to email, sms, or call. if your choice is to call, it prompts you for office, mobile, home, etc. the reception is pretty good too, just like a regular t-mobile phone, if not better. you see a log of all the numbers you dial, not just the last 10. plus a few other little things i cant recall. all in all, its a great little device.

Scott R
10-07-2003, 02:28 AM
One issue with the Blackberry that no one else seems to have discussed so far is monthly usage cost. T-Mobile's site shows the unlimited email plan with no voice minutes at $40/month, and the cheapest plan with minutes (1000) at $70/month. That may be fine when your employer is paying the bill, but that's too expensive for the mainstream.

Scott

mclaughlinc
10-07-2003, 02:46 AM
These devices are no different when it comes to the voice plans from any of the cariiers. You are right the unlimited data is about $40 a month.

Scott R
10-07-2003, 05:02 AM
These devices are no different when it comes to the voice plans from any of the cariiers. You are right the unlimited data is about $40 a month.But that's very different than similar devices. You can get unlimited data only, for a PPC or Sidekick for $30/month through T-Mobile, or for only $20/month if you add it to a voice plan. That's not true of this device. Here, it's $40/month for unlimited data only, and adding voice minutes doesn't seem to result in any discount.

Scott

bdegroodt
10-07-2003, 12:10 PM
These devices are no different when it comes to the voice plans from any of the cariiers. You are right the unlimited data is about $40 a month.But that's very different than similar devices. You can get unlimited data only, for a PPC or Sidekick for $30/month through T-Mobile, or for only $20/month if you add it to a voice plan. That's not true of this device. Here, it's $40/month for unlimited data only, and adding voice minutes doesn't seem to result in any discount.

Scott

I'd suggest the carriers are pretty in tune with the fact that these aren't for your average PPC/Sidekick club. Think of Sidekicks as your mail room clerk's device of choice and the BB as your CEO's device of choice...Then compare paychecks.

You're right. They aren't the same price and at some level I'm sure that's impacting the volume they can sell, but I pay my own bill and I wouldn't think twice about paying the extra $10/month when I compare it to what else is available.

dlinker
10-07-2003, 01:45 PM
We've got these in our Sydney, London and New York offices - and there great for Corporate Executives who spend lots of time out of the office and who live and die by their corporate email. Money isn't a factor - the US$40 or AU$95 each month is 20 minutes of their time - easily justified by one trip to and from the office.

I am a PocketPC user from way back and use my IiPAQ for everything from simple Calendar and Contacts to eBooks, web browsng (via GPRS bluetooth, MP3s etc

But I used a BB for two weeks during our trial and it was VERY compelling - addictive is definately the word.

As the guy who supports our mobile staff - give me a BB every time. It's easy to use, has a keyoard so anyody can use it to send email, works worldwide, is a good phone and allows great control of policy by the IT dept esp security.

As a gadget guy - give me the latest PocketPC. It has so many features and ability to add whatever I want - but managing a fleet of these things - not so easy.

dlinker
10-07-2003, 01:56 PM
While we now use Blackberry for our executives, we also tried the Visto service earlier this yesr. This service from www.visto.com works almost the same as the Blackberry service but runs on either PocketPC or PalmOS - over any carrier - as long as you get an always on Internet connection eg GPRS or CDMA 1x. We tried it on the PocketPC (the QTek/XDA and a bluetooth iPAQ/phone combo) and it was pretty good.

The only issues we had were the message size limit - only the first 2000 odd characters of an email could be downloaded - and that the Calendar integration wasn't as good as the Blackberry. They've released a new version since we tried, so we'll be revisiting to check whether these issues are resolved. I recommend anyone thinking about Blackberries at least give these guys a try.

bdegroodt
10-07-2003, 02:43 PM
While we now use Blackberry for our executives, we also tried the Visto service earlier this yesr. This service from www.visto.com works almost the same as the Blackberry service but runs on either PocketPC or PalmOS - over any carrier - as long as you get an always on Internet connection eg GPRS or CDMA 1x. We tried it on the PocketPC (the QTek/XDA and a bluetooth iPAQ/phone combo) and it was pretty good.

The only issues we had were the message size limit - only the first 2000 odd characters of an email could be downloaded - and that the Calendar integration wasn't as good as the Blackberry. They've released a new version since we tried, so we'll be revisiting to check whether these issues are resolved. I recommend anyone thinking about Blackberries at least give these guys a try.

Hmmm...only an always on GPRS connection for a PPC would seem to be a problem too. Battery isn't a strong suit there. Contrast that to the BB which I previously reported very extended use without charges.