Toshiba: "The PocketPC market is pretty much dead."

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.asp?ID=7&Art_ID=15594">http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.asp?ID=7&Art_ID=15594</a><br /><br />"'The PocketPC market is pretty much dead, and HP will tell you the same if you talk to them. They will give you a realistic view,' he told news media, in response to a question about the future of the PDA market."<br /><br />The rest of the article pretty much goes on to refute that statement from Toshiba and gets into a talking point that has been brought up here many times: The PDA as a standalone device does have a limited life. It is the wireless, converged and smartphone devices that will take over.<br /><br />Still, it makes you wonder why Toshiba would make such a brash statement. Oh, wait. This was also in the article. "Toshiba's shipments peaked in Q4 2002 and it has been suffering quarterly shipment declines in Q1 and Q2 of 2003."<br /><br />This wouldn't be sour grapes would it Toshiba? Dell and HP haven't had the problem of declining sales.

[Kati Compton]

Well, THEIR PPC market might be dead after they failed to provide an upgrade for the e740...

[Ed Hansberry]

Well, THEIR PPC market might be dead after they failed to provide an upgrade for the e740...
Heh heh. I knew it wouldn't take too long before that got mentioned. :lol:

[Mitch D]

If the Pocket PC market is dead then someone should tell my customers, I can't keep the iPaq 2210, 1940 & 5550 in stock and the Viewsonic V35's price is slowly over coming the diehard Palm fans I get when replacement time comes up.

But then again this is the same company who's rep refused to admit he was wrong on notebook specs. during a presentation at our management conference two weeks ago.

:frusty:

I think The Pocket PC has a strong heart beat except if it says Toshiba and I doubt anyone really cares at that point to look for a heart beat!

:soapbox:

Well that is my two cents worth.

[SandersP]

They keep treating customer like dirt, and they are wondering why nobody is buying their ware?

Boy, amazing....

[Foo Fighter]

In that case, HP is currently the second leading dead handheld maker in the world.

[bigkingfun]

But then again this is the same company who's rep refused to admit he was wrong on notebook specs. during a presentation at our management conference two weeks ago.

I was at this same conference, and Toshiba seems quite proud of themselves and doesn't think they can do any wrong. If their entire company has the same attitude as the presenter we saw, it's hardly any surprise that they have issues like the lack of support for the e740.

They are going to be in for a rude awakening if this attitude continues for too long. The PPC market is probably quicker to react to poor service and support because of the rate of change, but I think they will soon start to see the same drop in their notebook sales if they don't change their attitude.

[Gremmie]

They keep treating customer like dirt, and they are wondering why nobody is buying their ware?

Boy, amazing....

I'm not sure if customer service would be the number one cause for this, I would pin it on innovation. HP and Dell have released new body models, if you look back on HP (who is the only one left with extensive PPC history), follow ups to previous body styles were not raved (i.e., 3900 from 3800 or 3700 from 3600).

But to answer this question, you'd have to know how interested customers are interested in upgrading PDA OSes, and whether or not they even know. When was the last time you've seen a Mobile Windows 2003 commercial? My guess is consumers aren't broken by not being able to upgrade the OS; however I do think they are disinterested in reoccuring chassis.

Caveat: Consumers=average consumers, not those who are well-informed on PDA's months before they are released.

[Foo Fighter]

Just a thought: Could he have been referring to the Australian Pocket PC market?

[mangochutneyman]

I think the question is not "is the PPC market dead", b/c it obviously is not...but rather:

Can any other OEM besdes HP make a profit in the PPC market?

The short answer is yes and you can refer to the success of Dell's Axim line. But what about everyone else besides HP and Dell? There are soo many lisencees competing in the same market space that it cannot be possible that they are all being successful. In fact, Brighthand had a very interesting article on this very subject no to long aog intitled, "Is the iPAQ's Success Hurting Pocket PC?"


http://brighthand.com/article/Is_The_iPAQs_Success_Hurting_Pocket_PC

I think this is a relavent question to ponder and study especially if there is ultimately going to be some sort of shakeout in the number of WM04 lisencees in the future...

[Janak Parekh]

There are soo many lisencees competing in the same market space that it cannot be possible that they are all being successful.
That's possible, and the market will sort them out. That is a far cry from saying "the Pocket PC is dead". As for HP getting a stranglehold on the Pocket PC platform, one look at Dell's marketshare negates that possibility.

Also: wouldn't higher executives at Toshiba be very upset at comments like this? If they have VPs saying this, I can't in any right mind recommend Toshiba to anyone, even to those people who don't need upgradeability. I'd understand, businesswise, if they had first pulled out of the market before saying these things, but they're still developing and bringing new Pocket PCs to market! :roll:

No, this simply smacks of some combination of arrogance and stupidity.

--janak

[Shadowcat]

Just a thought: Could he have been referring to the Australian Pocket PC market?

I seem to recall a frontpage article on the fact that Pocket PC has surpassed Palm in Australia. Is that true or am I imagining things?

[Foo Fighter]

I seem to recall a frontpage article on the fact that Pocket PC has surpassed Palm in Australia. Is that true or am I imagining things?

Oops. You're right. Well, scratch that idea. Something must be in the water in Australia.

[caywen]

Before you read, keep in mind that I'm a PPC fan all the way. I'm a proud iPaq 1945 owner and an MS developer.

That said, this is exactly the kind of kick in the ass Microsoft needs. If you noticed, they've stopped really innovating recently. The screen resolution is now almost worst-in-class, the software doesn't "just work" as it does on Palm, and every device we see is pretty much the same thing, give or take a CF/SD slot or BT/WiFi feature.

Sony, OTOH, is creating wild, creative designs and exploring various form factors. Palm's Tungsten T3 is another good example of innovation.

The fact is, Palm and its partners are hungry while Microsoft is content to keep the status quo. They do have new things on the horizon, but they know they are rich enough to take their time.

I'm hoping that at least a few more partners express discontent with PocketPC. Microsoft is its worst when there are no challenges. Microsoft seems to work best when they start going downhill.

[jnunn]

I tend to believe that history will repeat itself with the PPC market. Prior to y2000 the WinCE market was labeled dead and people were writing it off. Then the PPC OS, specifications, and especially the iPAQ came out and all that changed.

I am holding out for y2004 as another y2000 with “MS Mobile devices” eclipsing PPC the way that PPC eclipsed WinCE. This can happen if MS ups the screen resolution beyond Palm/Sony and if the OEMs become creative with the form factors. With the rumbling about VGA screens and various form factors, I believe (or hope) that next year will be exciting.

[szamot]

hmmmm, I think this is just a Toshiba's way of saying "we screwed our end users with no updates" now it is coming back to bite us in the arse. That's right - good customer support = happy users= will buy again.

[Skoobouy]

I just watch Donnie Darko (great movie!) and I remember the line from the school principle: "I am sorry that you have failed." Heh.

Seriously, I would've liked for Toshiba to be a competitor, but they just don't know how to make a PocketPC. Their slim-lines have never had removeable batteries; ALL of their machines have a button lag; the upgrade fiasco; the graphics accelerators that make them slower; their goofy design... add to that the fact that they had no Backlit screen models until the e750 and e350... Positively ridiculous.

[AhuhX]

What a great article.

I think the article is written about the Australian market which is where I happen to be from.

Here... Tosh is dead in the water. They don't sell very well. Is anyone really surprised?
Here... HP high-end units are currently not doing as good as they used to which is hardly surprising given the updates to them have been so sucky, lacklustre and frankly boring as of late. People would buy them if they were worth it, but frankly they arn't at the moment. Cheaper HP units are doing very well, but only because they represent a much better value to cost ratio IMO. People would be happy to pay more if the higher end stuff actually gave you value for money.

Everything I'm seeing here is detailed in that article... it hit the nail right on the head.

MS needs to bloody pull their finger out and do some friggin work on their desperatley neglected handheld OS. HP is doing some great stuff with the hardware to push the platform, but real OS and usability improvements have been scarce. It is both sad, and pathetic that I'm finding I'm using my T610 more for simple things I should be using my PPC for... things like appointments that actually work, alarms and count down timers are both easier to enter with the T610 and less buggy and problematic. Simple little things that should be pathetically easy to put into the PPC OS but seemingly arn't. Why for frigg's sake do I still have to pull out the stylus just so I can tap the clock to see what the date is. Everytime I need to know the date I find myself going for my T610 instead, BECAUSE IT'S JUST EASIER! And stupid things like having to install 3rd party applets just to see your battery life on the front page, or fix up any of the above defeciencies just make me sick... Why MS... why can't you fix this stuff?

I rant on and on... Sorry! :)

*deep breath*

Somebody else mentioned how funny it is that history seems to be repeating itself with the CE handheld platform. 2004 is the make or break for PPC. They need a *real* update to the OS to survive and get the enthusiasm and usability back into their platform, otherwise we'll all be using Palm's or Symbian smartphones 2 years from now...

[madbart]

The Toshiba man "mark whitard" is the marketing man in australia.

I dare say that he will get his behind spanked by Japan.

The take up of ppcs in oz by corporate s is very low. Anyone who has one has generally paid for it out of their own pocket.

We also have very poor warranty support here especially for toshiba which are not even repaired here we they break 4 week turn around . They are sent back to Japan.

Ppc sales in oz are very much driven by the retail sector.

[gorkon280]

I just watch Donnie Darko (great movie!) and I remember the line from the school principle: "I am sorry that you have failed." Heh.

Seriously, I would've liked for Toshiba to be a competitor, but they just don't know how to make a PocketPC. Their slim-lines have never had removeable batteries; ALL of their machines have a button lag; the upgrade fiasco; the graphics accelerators that make them slower; their goofy design... add to that the fact that they had no Backlit screen models until the e750 and e350... Positively ridiculous.

Frontlit/Backlit/Sidelit......what does it matter so long as the damn screen is lit? My e740, when I had it, had a nice screen. Almost, but not quite as good as my 5555.

No, the reason they failed is they had a bunch of potential upgraders that were not offered a upgrade short of blowing another 500 bucks on a e755. That said, the e800, as nice as it may be, will not be bought by me.

[shawnc]

I don't agree that the PPC is dead (though it is obvious that any TOSHIBA PPC is). I do think that without a dramatic change is philosophy (one that I doubt will ever be made) that the PPC will be forever relegated as a "niche" product with minimal consumer penetration. And that is really a shame because there was such potential for this product.

That said, this is exactly the kind of kick in the ass Microsoft needs. If you noticed, they've stopped really innovating recently. The screen resolution is now almost worst-in-class, the software doesn't "just work" as it does on Palm, and every device we see is pretty much the same thing, give or take a CF/SD slot or BT/WiFi feature.

Can't argue that point. How many of us have made the comment "this would be the perfect device "IF"???. Every new PPC is always missing just that ONE key component. So you always have to "settle".

MS needs to bloody pull their finger out and do some friggin work on their desperatley neglected handheld OS. HP is doing some great stuff with the hardware to push the platform, but real OS and usability improvements have been scarce. It is both sad, and pathetic that I'm finding I'm using my T610 more for simple things I should be using my PPC for... things like appointments that actually work, alarms and count down timers are both easier to enter with the T610 and less buggy and problematic. Simple little things that should be pathetically easy to put into the PPC OS but seemingly arn't. Why for frigg's sake do I still have to pull out the stylus just so I can tap the clock to see what the date is. Everytime I need to know the date I find myself going for my T610 instead, BECAUSE IT'S JUST EASIER! And stupid things like having to install 3rd party applets just to see your battery life on the front page, or fix up any of the above defeciencies just make me sick... Why MS... why can't you fix this stuff? ...

I'll add to this list the lack of basic "round-tripping" capability in Word/Excel and the fact that I have to purchase 3rd-party app's to do something as basic as lay commonly used icons on my today screen, display my tasks (not just that I have a task) on the today screen, etc. M$ has a HUGE market of Word/Excel users and you advertise this product as something that will allow you to take work with you. THAT is the primary reason that the masses will use it. Not BT and some of the other high-tech bells and whistles that many of this community crave. Don't get me wrong, that stuff is nice, but take care of the basics first. Geez, I remember a post a couple of weeks ago discussing why ALARMS don't work on the 2003 update. ALARMS! But I digress.

I can't say for certain, but I just think M$ got arrogant, and why wouldn't they? They've been so successful up to this point. They thought that there mere presence in the market would result in everybody running from Palm to them. Instead of giving the consumer what they wanted, they wanted to dictate to the consumer what the SHOULD want. It worked for a little while, but they kept adding complexity without fixing what didn't work. As such the window of opportunity may be closed. People are craving for the simplicity and reliability of Palm. Everything I want to do with my PPC can be done with a Palm. It can be done in a more reliable manner for less money. I don't think the PDA market is dead, but the PPC is in trouble (IMO).

[Anthony Caruana]

Toshiba's market penetration in Australia is quite poor. Aussies are great early adopters and, as such, took up the ipaq when first released making it very hard for any other vendor. Couple that with Toshiba's recent decisions for upgrades for the 740 series and it's no wonder their sales are flagging.

[PetiteFlower]

Can't argue that point. How many of us have made the comment "this would be the perfect device "IF"???. Every new PPC is always missing just that ONE key component.

Problem is, try getting 10 random posters here to agree on what that one component is. Not everyone wants the same thing. Some people are screaming for a clamshell, others a thumb keyboard, others want the smallest device possible, others want the most power, others want better price point, some will even whine over something as seemingly insignificant as a jog dial......so it's not like there's really any way that any manufacturer could make EVERYONE'S ultimate device in the same item. It just can't be done. If you want a keyboard or a clamshell or even a CF slot, you're sacrificing size. If you want a faster processer, you sacrifice battery life. It's all about tradeoffs in this game--what's most important to YOU!

[madbart]

Toshiba's market penetration in Australia is quite poor. Aussies are great early adopters and, as such, took up the ipaq when first released making it very hard for any other vendor. Couple that with Toshiba's recent decisions for upgrades for the 740 series and it's no wonder their sales are flagging.

Toshiba's market penitration is Australia quite high...as recent as the last quater their shipments were within a couple hundrend units of the Ipaq.

You are right in that their sales are falling though and the july quater figures are expected to be dramatically lower than the previous.

[RobertCF]

PetiteFlower, I was going to head down that same path. One of the arguments being used is that the only future will be the integrated SmartPhone. To reinforce your point, I have zero use for a SmartPhone--I refuse to own a cell phone, and the only thing the latest cell phone has for it is it's very small size. I might actually consider breaking down and getting one if they come up with A) $40/month for unlimited use, unlimited coverage (this means I can sit in a boat in the middle of the Pacific and still have coverage) and B) wear the darned thing like a communicator from Star Trek Voyager (though a hospital is currently doing something like that, so there is hope for that).

In contrast, you have, as has been mentioned, various people who want more or less from their PDA. I LOVED my iPaq 3630's larger screen and I really miss that with my Axim Advanced. I like the expansion possibilities of the sleeve with that type of iPaq. I don't want to pay for Blue Tooth, and WiFi is available in such a tiny portion of places across the country that having that built in is wasted expense for many people, myself included. We could go on and on about what a PDA has or doesn't have. I have to laugh, though at those who are complaining about the alleged stale form factor/chassis of PDAs. When was the last truly innovative desktop or notebook design change? Uh, never. There is a form that is necessarily dictated by function, outside of which you are going to give up something to obtain a level of uniqueness. What other form would you have a device as small as a PDA and still have a screen big enough to see and do anything with? And where would you put these "thumbboards" or similar input device (btw, I think thumboards are ridiculous--I can TYPE, for pete's sake, and if I can't bring my foldup keyboard, I can sure as heck transcribe faster than a thumboard)? And, again, pointing at the SmartPhone crowd, look at how much smaller the phones are getting, every year. You're going to lose all the pocket real estate when you push the PDA into that thing.

The point is, there's enough diversity in the market to make having these various incarnations of the PDA be viable products--it depends on your needs and what you are able to pay to get it--and there's a point of diminishing returns in making a particular device into wildly different form factors--this is true of almost anything you buy. If you think PDAs are a niche product now, try coming up with some crazy new design and see how well that flies past the fad/novelty phase.

Most have commented accurately on Toshiba's failing choices, and I believe it's accurate to say they have a sour grapes attitude when, once again, Dell spanked them. If they didn't work so hard to alienate their customers, they might have kept their product attractive. In a market that is even more at the mercy of the whims of the customer base, it doesn't pay to hook them with a one-hit-wonder.

[Timothy Rapson]

I can add my voice to the Toshiba exec.

PPC is dead. Palm is dead. PDA sales are flat or falling. A Sony Ericson P800 style phone/PDA/camera is watching explosive growth. It is the phone sales model that allows folk to "buy" a mobile info/entertainment/communication device for virtually nothing down that will do PDAs in. The latest Motorola phones offer P800 features for 1/3 less. By next Summer, full 3G smartphones with full PDA OSs will be $99 or less with activation. How can PPC or Palm compete with that? Dell, is set to start offering a smartphone. Palm will have the Treo 600 (but, if they dont' figure out how to sell it at that $99 after activation, it will fail bigtime.) SonyEriccson will drop the price of the P-800. Look out below. The huge economy of scale from millions of phones will kill PPC and Palm.

This is all very sad, as I don't want a phone or phone contract. I just want a PDA for a couple hundred bucks that does all the rest of that. What I most value is reliability. I tried PPC twice. While the trade offs of the OS were OK:
Palm has higher res. PPC has more standard res software support.
Palm has simpler syncing. PPC has stadard native file support.
Palm has camera models at consumer prices. PPC has standard microphones.

ETC.

the things I can never get over on the PPC are the resets and that goofy spinning thingee that pops up all the the time. So, I am no longer crazy about the Palm OS, but prefer it to the PPC. I think most people with Windows desktops are scared to death of Windows anything else. Look at X-Box sales. (your opinion may vary) In any case, I see sales of both declining and don't see any future in either. I just don't see it. Toshiba has far more chance succeeding in cameras, phones, or even a possible GameBoy competitor than in PDAs, especially PPC PDAs. (BTW, Palm has recently whispered that they want a laptop maker to license their OS for a PALM OS laptop model. Toshiba has run very hard to get back on top of the Windows Laptop market with limited success. Wonder if they would try again to get a license for the Palm OS? They tried at one time and were rebuffed by Palm. Personally, I don't see a model such as that succeeding either.)

So, yep, I see it just as the Toshiba exec does.

[Jonathon Watkins]

add to that the fact that they had no Backlit screen models until the e750 and e350... Positively ridiculous.

Frontlit/Backlit/Sidelit......what does it matter so long as the damn screen is lit? My e740, when I had it, had a nice screen. Almost, but not quite as good as my 5555.

It matters massively. Is Foo around here anyplace? :worried:

Have you ever held a back and side lit PDA side by side? If so I doubt you would say it did not matter. Backlit is significantly better in ever respect to sidelit - colour purity, brightness, crispness - all apart from readability outdoors and then not by much. It really does matter what tech you use. :sunny:

[powder2000]

I have to get my 2 cents in on this conversation. I think it would be a sad day in hell that we loose a 3.5 inch screen(or bigger, I prefer 3.8 ) and the pocket pc OS. I love these things and think they have a definite market. I would hope they are not lost forever as I use mine every day and look at it as a necessity. I do not have a cell phone and don't plan on getting one. Why? because I don't want to pay out the a@# for their service and I don't want a contract that I am locked into. I use WiFi and am very happy with that aspect of the wireless realm, I don't need cellular. I think there are plenty of people like myself that see a spot for the ppc. I would even settle for a ppc with email capabilities, this would suit me just fine. C'mon, there has got to be more like me! What will happen, palms and ppcs will disappear and people will go back to pen and paper to write notes? I would never try and thumb a note using the number pad of a cell phone on a 1.5 inch screen, that's just plain stupid.

[gorkon280]

It matters massively. Is Foo around here anyplace? :worried:

Have you ever held a back and side lit PDA side by side? If so I doubt you would say it did not matter. Backlit is significantly better in ever respect to sidelit - colour purity, brightness, crispness - all apart from readability outdoors and then not by much. It really does matter what tech you use. :sunny:

Yeah I have and I can't say I notice the difference. I may notice it if the screens were bigger, but as it stands now, I can still see individual pixels on every PPC. I am not picky over display especially with pocket devices. Thats a trade off I have made and one that is painless. As long as I can see and read the screen 80-90 percent of the time, it's good enough. Colour purity? Um...if your worried about that, you may as well never look at a computer! :) Sure, there are some that do awesome jobs but they never capture it as well as say a photo or looking at the actual item. So as long as I get the basics, I am happy. I am not a screen Nazi. That said, the best indoor screen I ever saw was Casio's HAST LCD's.....too bad they were damn unreadable outside. The 3600 iPaq was glorified for it's screen, but I never liked it. The current screen on the 5555 looks good enough. So, front lit, back lit and side lit.....as long as the thing is lit up with a light, I don't care. I don't want a PDA that has a screen as horrid as the Gameboy Advanced.

[corphack]

As usual, Toshiba's representatives are issuing inaccuarate information: the PDA market isn't dead. Toshiba's reputation for consumer products is.

Unfortunately, Toshiba is as unaware of their reputation as they are unaware of the state of the industry.

They also are apparently unfamiliar with the English language; the meaning of various words and phrases eludes them, such as "customer service" (two words not normally positively associated with Toshiba), "product reliability", or "manufacturer accountability".

They are familiar with "ethics" only as a foreign concept, and apparently Toshiba considers it unimportant.

[Jer]

I switched from Palm to PocketPC because I wanted the opportunity to upgrade the OS. With Toshiba not providing an upgrade, I won't even consider buying a Toshiba. I have friends that are selling their Toshiba's to buy a Dell or HP because they provided an upgrade. Toshiba shot themselves in the foot with this one. :lol:

[MonkeyGrass]

Oh, this is rich...

I love it. For everyone who said "Your petition won't work" "You are wasting your time posting all these horror stories about Toshiba" "It's a drop in the bucket to them, everyone will just buy the 755" etc...

GUESS WHAT? It's working. Toshiba is feeling the sting of pissing off everyone who paid thru the nose for an e740!

PPC is dead, just ask HP? ROFL Oh that's good. Sure, that's why they have slated 4 new models for eminent release. Because there is no market, isn't that obvious! ;)

Buh bye Trashiba. You are now reaping what you have sown - and that "miniscule" portion of the market is now gone for you.

Cya.

Good. Get out of the PPC game - you have no concept of how it's done. Leave it to HP and Dell, they DO have a clue.

[nic]

I think the market is lacking in advertisement. All PPC makers could be advertising their models a lot more.

Also, like at best buy they should have some of their models showing movies (like the Matrix or something). Or at least more interactive demonstrations or guides that show off the power of these little devices (like they have running on all their PCs). If someone saw how much power these things are able to push, they might be more interested in buying (if just for the snob/geek appeal). Currently they are just sitting there and ordinary people just walking by haven't a clue what they are for, or what they can be used for.

Every person I've shown my iPAQ h1945 to is instantly saying "I want one!" They wouldn't have had a clue otherwise though. Stores and makers need to take the same approach.
-Nic

[Phoenix]

Comments like this (from Toshiba) are just stupid. End of story.

[pgh1969pa]

This statement from Toshiba was maybe a little stupid to make considering they are planning to release a new PPC shortly! This statement says to me that they are considering bowing out of the market. Now why would I consider buying a PPC from a company getting ready to abandon its users. Wait, they've already done that!

Well, its about time they started to think about getting out...they were half-heartedly pursing the market anyway. Good bye Toshiba.

[Sheynk]

To sum it up:
Toshiba makes the best laptops, period.
Their PPCs are ok

They dont have any Customer service, period and period again.

My dad owned and owns Toshiba laptops and they are durable and powerful, never a problem.

I was previosly an owner of an e755, no problems at all.

Toshiba has built so many good products that the service they think they need to provide has deteriorated.

[ipaqgeek]

It's all here:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=168895

That's why PPC is dead. And it's all Microsofts fault: exploiting technology at the expense of users. Well I just hope it bites them in the tuckus big time! I made a decision to not upgrade my iPAQ 3630 until the resolution and speed doubled. I think we'd be in better shape if more people would've made the same decision. In the meantime, all we got was built-in doodads that we could have added as expansion all along - and the PPC community was stupid enough to spend $ on new devices that we're hardly any better. Microsoft won't innovate nor will they let their partners innovate unless we vote for innovations. With our dollars.

[tanalasta]

No, i don't think the pocketpc/palm is dead. Especially in the medical profession. In the US, even medical schools are rapidly using the technology to sync patient records/data etc... and they are invaluable sources of quick reference information.

And they make great organisers... and as the prices continue to fall, uptake will probably continue. Just a bit like mobile phones, MD players etc really... it just takes time. That's my two cents.

As for Toshi, in Australia... their customer service sucks. Their phone reps don't seem to have a clue and suggest things most semi-intelligent people would have already done (e.g. have you soft-reset your device and did that fix the problem Ans: I just told you i did a hard reset and it still won't boot up)... I've had to send my stupid e310 back twice in 7 months. Maybe they ought to design innovate new devices that are actually useful AND consumer conscious [just check out their poor software bundle] rather than expecting people to buy a bland piece of plastic over an IPAQ 2215 simply because it's a "toshiba". I don't think it'll happen.

I own a toshiba and i can tell you right now, the moment i graduate i will spend my first paycheck on whatever the newest HP/IPAQ is.