Did anyone peek at Mars last night?

[famousdavis]

I am a very mild astronomy enthusiast. My wife bought an inexpensive Meade telescope for my birthday two years ago, which I dusted off last night, replaced the batteries, and set-up on my front lawn to view Mars @ 10pm EDT. The view was amazing, even without magnification. With the telescope, I saw what appears to be a moon circling around the Red Planet.

Did anyone else catch the show, either last night or in days leading up to August 26 (the date on which Mars is the very closest to Earth)?

Space.com says the viewing should still be good through next month, and even into October for those who didn't get around to inspecting the nighttime sky.

Hmmm...makes me wonder....I wonder if there's some PPC software that would map the nighttime sky? That would be very handy, especially when you're packing just a pair of eyeglasses or binoculars....

[Steven Cedrone]

I've been watching for a few days...

I guess you missed my post here... (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17109)

Steve

[dean_shan]

I don't think I'll be able to see it. I has been really cloudy and rainy. Anyways I like comets showers more. Those are neat.

[David Prahl]

I have a 60mm ( :cry: ) refractor, and I could BARELY see the volcanic plains. I think I might've seen the polar ice cap, but I'm not sure.

[PetiteFlower]

I heard on the radio this morning that tonight should be the BEST night for checking it out.....and it just so happens that tonight I'm going to my Dad's for dinner, who has a telescope :)

I definitely noticed it when I was camping a few weeks ago though even without a telescope, it was pretty neat. ALMOST made up for me not being able to see the millions of stars I usually see up there....this year there was a full moon, and it was SO bright that it washed out a lot of the stars! I was very sad about that, living in the city I don't see starts like you can see in the woods, my only chance to see them all year is this trip, and the damn moon had to be full :( It was beautiful in its own right of course but I can see the full moon at home!

Anyway isn't the meteor shower supposed to be going on around now too?

[Crystal Eitle]

I always seem to be asleep when astronomy-related events happen (gee, I wonder why?). On the radio this morning, the announcer said seeing a heavenly body can be a "life-changing" event, and I kind of regretted not making the effort to do a little stargazing last night. Apparently, there were "thousands" gathered in Loring Park in Minneapolis to have a look at Mars. Were any of you Twin Citians there?

[doogald]

I've been looking out for Mars every cloudless night for weeks. I finally dragged out the little telescope that we have on Tuesday night and it looked strange - then, when I went back into the house, I saw how filthy the lens was. I'll be trying again tonight.

[Steven Cedrone]

Well, there is pleanty of time to see it...

Today is the day it will be closest to Earth, but it will still be pretty close for a while yet...

By the way, today is officially "Mars Day" (http://www.planetary.org/marswatch2003/marsday.html)... :wink:

Steve

[hollis_f]

The poll is missing the answer that surely must be the most popular - "I would go an look at it, but the clouds/fog/torrential rain might make it difficult."

[famousdavis]

hollis_f wrote:

The poll is missing the answer that surely must be the most popular - "I would go an look at it, but the clouds/fog/torrential rain might make it difficult."

Well, as I understand matters, bad weather wouldn't really preclude someone from making an earnest attempt at viewing Mars. The viewing is supposed to be good through September and into October. Quite frankly, I remember two summers ago -- when I got my first telescope --noting how bright Mars was in the then-western nighttime sky...so Mars is a great view anytime, but most especially right now! :)

SO -- if clouds/fog/torrential rain make it difficult to view in the next day or so, let's hope you'll be able to see a clear sky sometime in the next month or two. And if you aren't likely to have a clear sky in that time, you might want to consider a new locality to live in! :)

[famousdavis]

Crystal Eitle wrote:

On the radio this morning, the announcer said seeing a heavenly body can be a "life-changing" event

Methinks the term, "life-changing event" is waaaaay over used, and most especially so if the event is one's viewing of Mars at night. It's an increasingly interesting -- even exciting -- event, depending upon how great of an astronomy enthusiast one is, but I'd be hard-pressed to think of anyone having a "life-changing event" as a result of Mars! Perhaps, if one bought a new telescope to view Mars, and one became an amateur astronomer as a result, it would be "life-changing" -- but even then, only in a very mild sense. Of course, I'm preluding the existence of real Martians! 0X

Now, one's first PPC is not like that all! No, one's first PPC truly IS a life-changing event! :D

[famousdavis]

David wrote:

I have a 60mm ( ) refractor, and I could BARELY see the volcanic plains.

Yeah, that's what I've got, too. It's a Meade ATX-60. If I have some extra cash, I'd consider the Meade ATX-90 as a better alternative.

Still, that you made out anything beyond a bright light cast off of Mars' surface is pretty good! Did you see any moons around Mars? I saw what I think was one moon, but I don't know if Mars has moons, and if so, how many it has.

[Crystal Eitle]

Did you see any moons around Mars? I saw what I think was one moon, but I don't know if Mars has moons, and if so, how many it has.

If I remember correctly from astronomy classes and sci-fi, it has two, Phobos and Deimos.

But then again, maybe I'm just being a showoff, and, as always, I Could Be Wrong (tm).

EDIT:

Mars has two very small moons - Phobos and Deimos. They were discovered by Asaph Hall in 1877. He named them after Mars' mythological attendants: fear (Phobos) and terror (Deimos). It is likely that they did not form with the planet, but are captured asteroids. This is believed because they are both small, and Mars is reasonably close to the asteroid belt.

I never knew that about the origin of Mars's moons' names. Interesting.

source (http://www.harmsy.freeuk.com/phobos.html)

[famousdavis]

Steven's quote (from another thread on the same subject):

"On August 27th, a celestial event will take place which has not happened in over 73,000 years.

Yeah, I guess I missed the thread you began on the same subject. :oops:

Now, as a Christian who leans more towards a young-earth dating of, say, 10,000 to 15,000 years old, I must say I'm a tad skeptical of the quote above. I find it amusing for anyone to say what occurred much beyond recorded human history -- and most especially millions or even billions of years ago -- because the over-arching assumption in all such "facts" is that the natural laws that we see evidenced today have never been altered in the eons the earth really has been in existence.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that ever the universe is growing increasingly more disordered. SOMETHING (or SOMEONE) created an ordered universe which heretofore is growing more and more disordered. Christians believe, simply, that God ordered everything when He created the universe. Others would adhere to a Big Bang theory and suggest that order was a haphazard (and pleasant) by-product of the explosion of matter.

My point? We hardly can say with any degree of authority what this universe was like or not like. We can conjecture, speculate and theorize with lots of good facts and reasoning, but in the end, we cannot say with 100% certainty what this universe looked like 73,000 years ago, much less millions or billions of years ago.

Speaking of matter....I teach my 2nd-grader that there are three types of matter: solids, liquids and gases. From where did matter originate? A Christian believes that God created out of matter from nothing. Implausible or not (depending on one's worldview), I've never heard an evolutionist explain the origin of matter used during the Big Bang.

Okay, I'm sure I've overstepped the bounds of this forum with this post, but a PPT forum touching on astronomy and God is like, for me, hitting a trifecta at jai-alai! :D

[egads]

On the radio this morning, the announcer said seeing a heavenly body can be a "life-changing" event, and I kind of regretted not making the effort to do a little stargazing last night.

I've always been the only one in the house that would get up at 3:00AM an dlook to the sky to see a meteor shower and would get all excited about what I saw. My wife has always been the type who never looks up and wonders, it's a waste of time. I've caught her several times this week looking up to the sky and saying WOW. May not be life changing, but for her to even go out of the way to see Mars is quite a change for her. Every one on our block is also out Mars viewing. Just hope people's new found enthusiasm for space sticks around and in the future I won't be the only weirdo sitting in a lawn chair at 3:00AM looking at the sky!!!

[dean_shan]

Steven's quote (from another thread on the same subject):

"On August 27th, a celestial event will take place which has not happened in over 73,000 years.

Yeah, I guess I missed the thread you began on the same subject. :oops:

Now, as a Christian who leans more towards a young-earth dating of, say, 10,000 to 15,000 years old, I must say I'm a tad skeptical of the quote above. I find it amusing for anyone to say what occurred much beyond recorded human history -- and most especially millions or even billions of years ago

Same here. When ever people talk that I just tune that part out and go "Tomorrow Mars will be closer to Earth than it has in recorded history". My high school world history teacher refused to teach anything before recorded history because it is all therory, not fact.

[qmrq]

I've been watching it for some time... really incredible what you can see with a nice telescope. :D

If I remember correctly from astronomy classes and sci-fi, it has two, Phobos and Deimos.
The first thing reading that made me think of was the DOOM games.. does that make me a geek?

[upplepop]

Sorry to get off-topic...

We hardly can say with any degree of authority what this universe was like or not like. We can conjecture, speculate and theorize with lots of good facts and reasoning, but in the end, we cannot say with 100% certainty what this universe looked like 73,000 years ago, much less millions or billions of years ago.

Although the age of the Earth has been debated much in the past, there is actually a lot of evidence in geology, astronomy and geochemistry that the Earth is much more than 10-15,000 years old--more like 4.5 billion years. (read the book A Brief History of Nearly Everything for more information about this discovery. Hopefully you got the ebook from Microsoft while it was free :) )

We also cannot say with 100% certaintly that there is a higher power that created an ordered universe. I find the scientific explaination much more plausable.

[doogald]

Sorry to get off-topic...

Although the age of the Earth has been debated much in the past, there is actually a lot of evidence in geology, astronomy and geochemistry that the Earth is much more than 10-15,000 years old--more like 4.5 billion years. (read the book A Brief History of Nearly Everything for more information about this discovery.

...and if the Earth is really that old (as I am sure that it is), then mathematics of the orbits of Earth and Mars show that the last time that they were this close was about 60,000 years ago...

[Pat Logsdon]

I find it amusing for anyone to say what occurred much beyond recorded human history -- and most especially millions or even billions of years ago -- because the over-arching assumption in all such "facts" is that the natural laws that we see evidenced today have never been altered in the eons the earth really has been in existence.
Here is an excellent article (http://skepdic.com/creation.html) on "scientific creationism". It's quite long, quite thorough, and even address the 2nd law of thermodynamics argument. :wink:

I also think these posts should be split from the Mars post.

[Steven Cedrone]

I also think these posts should be split from the Mars post.

I'll do it later, I'm going out to look at Mars... :wink:

Steve

[maximus]

The poll is missing the answer that surely must be the most popular - "I would go an look at it, but the clouds/fog/torrential rain might make it difficult."

Yup. The sky was so cloudy, that I cannot even see the moon, let alone a much smaller reddish object in the sky. Bummer. Uh well, lets wait until there is a commercial service by American Airlines to mars.

[famousdavis]

upplepop wrote:

(read the book A Brief History of Nearly Everything for more information about this discovery. Hopefully you got the ebook from Microsoft while it was free )

Ya know, I only this week downloaded the free eBooks from Microsoft's site. I didn't know about them until I stumbled across a post a week or two before, but I was at work and couldn't download them right then and there. I *wish* I had downloaded that book. Maybe next summer? :?

Surgical Snack wrote:

Here is an excellent article on "scientific creationism". It's quite long, quite thorough, and even address the 2nd law of thermodynamics argument.

I'll download it to my PPC and give it a read. I enjoy reading diverse points-of-view, which is why I'm reading this week's free eBook, Selecting the Pope, though I'm non-denominational. BTW, I've never downloaded a webpage to my PPC before. I see that IE has the menu selection, Tools, Create Mobile Favorite, which I selected (but my PPC wasn't plugged in to my desktop). I guess it'll magically copy over the next time I synch?

doogald wrote:

...and if the Earth is really that old (as I am sure that it is), then mathematics of the orbits of Earth and Mars show that the last time that they were this close was about 60,000 years ago...

Well, maybe. Again, the main assumption here -- which I find overreaching -- is that no alterations or anamolies occurred to the natural laws governing the universe as we know them. Who KNOWS what the universe was like 10,000, 20,000 or 50,000 years ago? But if that assumption can be accepted prima facie, then you're right (in part because I had to take my college calculus class three times before I passed it! :oops: ).

dean_shan wrote:

Same here. When ever people talk that I just tune that part out and go "Tomorrow Mars will be closer to Earth than it has in recorded history". My high school world history teacher refused to teach anything before recorded history because it is all therory, not fact.

I like your high school world history teacher! :)

[famousdavis]

Off topic question on my thread...

When you're quoting from a previous post, how do you do that so it automatically shows, in bold, who wrote the snippet I'm copying into my post? What I'm doing is copying/pasting between the Quote HTML tag, and typing out who wrote what. Methinks there must be an easier way....

[Prevost]

Did anyone else catch the show, either last night or in days leading up to August 26 (the date on which Mars is the very closest to Earth)? .Well, as I also have astronomy as a hobby, I can tell ya I`ve been noticing the unusual Mars brightness from a few weeks ago. Last three nights (including tonight) it has been impossible to see it since it has been cloudy. As a matter of fact, here in Panama this is rainy season so it has been kind of strange to enyoy some clear nights so as to catch a good sight on the red planet.

That makes me remember the time some 20 years ago or so, when most external planets got aligned...I had been noticing that from almost a year in advance (without knowing what was behind, like now), while many people rushed into Balboa Avenue (an avenue running by the bay) to glimpse it in the exact night it was supposed to "exactly" happen, for nothing...night was cloudy, as always in this season!

[Steven Cedrone]

Off topic question on my thread...

When you're quoting from a previous post, how do you do that so it automatically shows, in bold, who wrote the snippet I'm copying into my post? What I'm doing is copying/pasting between the Quote HTML tag, and typing out who wrote what. Methinks there must be an easier way....

When you want to quote somebody: Hit the "Quote" button on the top right hand side of the post you want to quote...

You may need to delete some of the post inside the quote tags, but that's how it's done...

Steve

[Pat Logsdon]

I see that IE has the menu selection, Tools, Create Mobile Favorite, which I selected (but my PPC wasn't plugged in to my desktop). I guess it'll magically copy over the next time I synch?
You'll probably have better luck pasting the text of the article into notepad and saving it as a text file on your PPC. At least, that's how *I* would do it... :)

[famousdavis]

You may need to delete some of the post inside the quote tags, but that's how it's done...

Steve

Okay, I got it! I never paid attention to that icon before. I thought it was a trick you did after you clicked the icon to reply to the current thread.

Thanks! :)

[famousdavis]

You'll probably have better luck pasting the text of the article into notepad and saving it as a text file on your PPC. At least, that's how *I* would do it... :)

Thanks! I just now took a peek at the page on my PPC, and it actually came out pretty good! :) I'll give the article it a read sometime tomorrow at work. I'm in a training class this whole week -- Oracle 9i Database: New Features 8O -- and occasionally I zone out when there is a new feature being presented that I'm not interested in learning about.

[famousdavis]

For those who may be interested, I found a program on Handango's site: Pocket Stars (http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?productType=2&optionId=1_2_2&jid=9C67FC5A2416A519DAC7B9EDC3A979D6&platformId=2&siteId=1&productId=22483&sectionId=0&catalog=30&txtSearch=%22Pocket+Stars%22). 0X 0X It won some Educational Award on Handango's website. I'm going to download a trial version of it right now and see how it works.

NewsFlash! The program doesn't appear to load onto my iPAQ 1910! It says that there are versions available for ARM, MIPS and SH3 chips. As I understand matters, the 1910 uses an Intel XScale trip (right?), so I guess I'm outta luck.... :?

Nevermind the last paragraph...they've got several download versions available (and I chose the wrong version, not knowing the history behind different processors for the PPC).

I'm learning, I'm learning....

[Prevost]

For those who may be interested, I found a program on Handango's site: Pocket Stars (http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?productType=2&optionId=1_2_2&jid=9C67FC5A2416A519DAC7B9EDC3A979D6&platformId=2&siteId=1&productId=22483&sectionId=0&catalog=30&txtSearch=%22Pocket+Stars%22). 0X 0X It won some Educational Award on Handango's website. I'm going to download a trial version of it right now and see how it works.

NewsFlash! The program doesn't appear to load onto my iPAQ 1910! It says that there are versions available for ARM, MIPS and SH3 chips. As I understand matters, the 1910 uses an Intel XScale trip (right?), so I guess I'm outta luck.... :?Yeah, it is stated it is compatible with the 1910.

Can you post later your experiences? Particularily about Messier objects and Night Vision...cool! :way to go:

[hollis_f]

Still, that you made out anything beyond a bright light cast off of Mars' surface is pretty good! Did you see any moons around Mars? I saw what I think was one moon, but I don't know if Mars has moons, and if so, how many it has. Mars does have two moons - Phobos and Deimos, like what Crystal said. But you didn't see either of them. How do I know - because they're really, really small and really, really dark. About 1/1000 the angular diameter of Mars and magnitude 10 to 12.

[famousdavis]

hollis_f wrote:

But you didn't see either of them (the Mars moons)

I'll take another look tonight (weather-permitting, which it's not right now) and see the precise location of the small object near Mars, then I'll take a look at Pocket Stars to see if I can identify the celestial object.

BTW, I'm very impressed with Pocket Stars. It is a fabulous program that does a great job of unraveling the nighttime sky. A few features are a bit quirky, but in, it easily beats toting my huge, heavy field guide. I suppose a real amateur astronomer would object to using anything but red light to illumine the field guide, but the light from my PPC is puny compared to the looming street light hanging right over my driveway! 8O

[hollis_f]

hollis_f wrote:

But you didn't see either of them (the Mars moons)

I'll take another look tonight (weather-permitting, which it's not right now) and see the precise location of the small object near Mars, then I'll take a look at Pocket Stars to see if I can identify the celestial object.
Well, Mike Weasner - the man who knows the ETX suggests one shouldn't even hope to spot them on his site (http://www.weasner.com/etx/ref_guides/mars.html).

And it took a 26-inch telescope to discover them

So I wouldn't hope too much.

[PetiteFlower]

It was cloudy last night when I had access to the telescope :cry:

I'll take a look tonight anyway but eh, can't see much other then a big red dot....

Oh, and accepting the fairly solid evidence about the actual age of the earth hardly refutes the idea of a "higher power" which created it.....that is something which can never be proven OR disproven so it will be up to each individual person to decide what they believe. You can absolutely believe that god ticked off the big bang, and why not, it's just as reasonable as thinking it was an act of random chaos, there's no evidence for or against either theory!

We DO know for a fact that the earth existed before recorded history though, there are bones, archaeological discoveries, carbon dating, etc, a 10,000 year old earth is just absurd in the face of the scientific discoveries we have made(even disregarding any "theories"); the human race is older then that!

[maximus]

We DO know for a fact that the earth existed before recorded history though, there are bones, archaeological discoveries, carbon dating, etc, a 10,000 year old earth is just absurd in the face of the scientific discoveries we have made(even disregarding any "theories"); the human race is older then that!

I read a theory that the universe is just a big playground of a much-much-more advanced race. And we are just small pawns in it.

We play games like red alert, generals, rise of the nations .... and the super advanced aliens play us for games. Earth is just one of the playground for them. They like to observe how we interact, how we solve our problems, which one of us became the leader, which one of us became couch potatoes ... Which Bills became Gates, which Michaels became Dell.

Since I read that, everytime I played C&C generals, I pity those foot soldiers whose main role are as cannon fodders. They might have family and kids too (in their own world).

[famousdavis]

hollis_f wrote:

Well, Mike Weasner - the man who knows the ETX suggests one shouldn't even hope to spot them on his site .

Aww, it's a cloudy night where I live anyway! :)

[famousdavis]

Maximus wrote:

I read a theory that the universe is just a big playground of a much-much-more advanced race. And we are just small pawns in it.

I do believe that I remember a Star Trek episode which is probably from where that theory harkened unto! Eventually, Kirk wouldn't play that game no more.... :)

[famousdavis]

Oh, and accepting the fairly solid evidence about the actual age of the earth hardly refutes the idea of a "higher power" which created it.....that is something which can never be proven OR disproven so it will be up to each individual person to decide what they believe. You can absolutely believe that god ticked off the big bang, and why not, it's just as reasonable as thinking it was an act of random chaos, there's no evidence for or against either theory!

We DO know for a fact that the earth existed before recorded history though, there are bones, archaeological discoveries, carbon dating, etc, a 10,000 year old earth is just absurd in the face of the scientific discoveries we have made(even disregarding any "theories"); the human race is older then that!

I remember listening to a radio program once, years ago, that dealt harshly with the concept of a millions-of-years-old earth. The scientist on the program used a number of earth-dating techniques to suggest our earth is much younger than what we are led to believe. I don't remember them all, or even how they worked, really, but here's what I do remember:

1) The ocean-sediment clock; our oceans would have far more sediment (I initially typed that word, "sentiment"!) if our earth was older, not younger

2) The polar magnets; the polar magnets decay relatively quickly (a percent or two every 100 years), and given this, there would be no polar magnet pull if our earth were older, not younger

Dang, that's all I remember right now. My lasting impression, though, was that there were more ways to calculate the age of the earth beyond just carbon-dating.

I'm not a scientist, but as a Christian, I do elevate the view of Scripture to supercede all human wisdom and understanding. To whatever extent human wisdom and understanding fail to uphold the high view of Scripture, it is to that point that I disagree with human wisdom and understanding. I personally don't have much of an urge to deny or uphold a young-earth or old-earth belief -- unless by positing an old-earth theory, one then suggests that we are orderly beings created from the haphazard, disordered, chaotic Big Bang, and not from a loving, Almighty God as revealed in Scripture.

Simply, my worldview is framed by my faith in God based upon Scripture, and not vice versa.

[hollis_f]

1) The ocean-sediment clock; our oceans would have far more sediment (I initially typed that word, "sentiment"!) if our earth was older, not younger.


Not much of a scientist, if that was the argument used. Unless this radio broadcast was about 50 years ago. Plate tectonics means that there is no old ocean crust anywhere in the world. It all gets subducted back into the mantle before it gets a chance to accumulate loads of sediment.


2) The polar magnets; the polar magnets decay relatively quickly (a percent or two every 100 years), and given this, there would be no polar magnet pull if our earth were older, not younger.

Yoiks! An even less well informed scientist than I thought! The Earth's magnetic field is, indeed, decaying at the moment. But examination of the magnetic field directions either side of mid-ocean ridges show that the Earth's field has not only dropped to zero several times over the last few million years - it's even changed direction. Many earth scientists believe we're heading for another reversal.


Dang, that's all I remember right now. My lasting impression, though, was that there were more ways to calculate the age of the earth beyond just carbon-dating.
Actually, you can't date the Earth using radiocarbon. The reason you can't is because the Earth is too old. The radioactive carbon has a half life of only about 5500 years. Now, if the Earth were only 10,000 years old the rocks would still have some radiocarbon in them. But they have none at all. So other radioactive elements are used (some of them with half-lifes in the billions of years).