Sony Announcing New Wireless Handheld This Week

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.brighthand.com/article/Sony_Announcing_Wireless_Handheld_on_Friday' target='_blank'>http://www.brighthand.com/article/S...dheld_on_Friday</a><br /><br /></div>"Information obtained by Brighthand from Sony Japan's website shows that it will have integrated Bluetooth and 802.11b wireless networking capabilities. It will come with Sony's suite of Internet applications, including Clie Mail as well as the NetFront v3.0 for Clie web browser. The Clie PEG-UX50 will use Palm OS version 5.2 and run on what Sony calls its Handheld Engine. The Handheld Engine appears to consist of an ARM926 based processor, possibly running at 300MHz, a Digital Signal Processor (DSP), a CXD2230GA graphics accelerator chip, and 64MB DRAM."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/sony_peg_ux50[1].jpg" /> <br /><br />8O This looks amazing! I've never been seriously tempted to buy a Palm device until now - I've always had a soft-spot in my heart for devices with keyboards. Like all Sony devices, this is quite aggressive technically. I wonder about the screen though - 480 x 320 on a 3.2 inch screen will make for some rather tiny text. Still, I'm drooling on my keyboard...<br /><br />Where are the Pocket PC OEMs willing to step up and create innovative form-factors like this? :|

[sting0r]

Jason, I agree with you. I really like this form factor. I must control myself don't want to turn back to the dark side, now that I have been using a pocket pc/wince device for the past 4 years......

If it's not too expensive I may just buy one to goof around with though, but when is a pocketpc vendor going to come out with small device with a keyboard!!!!!

[dh]

This is the first POS device that might tempt me to switch back.
You're right Jason, it would be fantastic to see PPC OEMs coming up with innovative designs like this.
A form factor like this with dual expansion and WM2003 would be a killer device.

[numb]

Whats innovative about that form factor..Psion did it years ago! And with a better keyboard (from what you can see in the photo)

[Monty Gibson]

I'm sorry, but Sony truly is kicking some serious ass in the hardware field. I wished they ran a better OS *cough* but I agree, Jason; this is very impressive. I'm sure, before long as well, that it will have some type of cellular service integrated into it making it a mobile phone device. That's the way everything seems to be progressing. Imagine being able to type on this device and conference call at the same time. The camera being there too; you could possibly have a video conference call... amazing. If I didn't love Pocket PC's so much this may have been my calling.

[dh]

Whats innovative about that form factor..Psion did it years ago! And with a better keyboard (from what you can see in the photo)

You can twist it around and use it in tablet mode like the other Sonys. I don't remember that feature with the Psion.

There are also a number of expansion packs that clip to the bottom of the new Clie. (Ipaq sledders should love that!)

[Raphael Salgado]

According to the original Brighthand article, it's 16MB, not 64MB. If it had a built-in phone like my i700, I'd think twice. Otherwise, it's just a nice looking toy.

Upper-left of the keyboard shows a camera, much like the NX and NZ series. Hope the quality of the camera is good, and flash like on the NZ would have been helpful.

But the neat things that Sony crams in make every device of theirs worthwhile, from the jog/scroll button, to the twisting display, to what appears to be a keyring on the corner. It kinda looks like my old Sony mini-notebook I used to have. I miss that little device. :cry:

[MultiMatt]

It was a while back, so I can't recall where I found it, but on my hard drive, I have a Flash demo of a "Top-Secret" HP device.

Folding device, with keyboard and built-in wireless...

Anyway, I wonder if they are continuing with progress on a device like this...?!

Matt

[limit]

SONY really makes the palm OS shine. sure wish pocketpc would come up with more inovative devices...

[Duncan]

Yes... looks very nice but is it?

1) Memory Stick still!
2) Crippled Memeory Stick capability at that!
3) 3.2" screen? No matter how finely detailed the text/resolution etc. that is a dumb step backwards for Sony.
4) That keyboard! C'mon - a separate Stowaway or built-in thumbboard maybe, but this is just an awkward compromise!

Is it just me or do the 'twist' Clies miss the point of a PDA? In what way do any of the 'innovative' features of these Clies make for an improved user experience? These are just expensive toys...

[Stake]

This is a good thing for both the PPC and Palm world. Hopefully, this will push PPC designers to think less out of the slate form factor and put more effort into the technical limits of PDA design. HP came close with their mockup of their iPaq with the fold out keyboard but I doubt this incarnation of their PDA will come to market (though I'd be the first to get one if it does). This Clie is just a jaw dropping device and I'd love to get it but the Palm OS keeps me at bay. For now Sony, :werenotworthy:

It'll be great to see if there are any responses to this in the coming months from the PPC camp! I'm praying that there are!

[powder2000]

I like it, that's all.

[dean_shan]

I personaly don't like this form factor. Yes it looks nice, but I prefer the normal, non-clamshell, PDA model. It looks ok but I'm sure the cost will be high. I have a feeling that if Sony started making PPC their sales will boost.

[mangochutneyman]

According to several sources over at Cliesource, the UX50 will be priced at $590 USD...

Also for those interested, PDAFrance posted some nice pics as well:

http://www.pdafrance.com/

[marlof]

It was a while back, so I can't recall where I found it, but on my hard drive, I have a Flash demo of a "Top-Secret" HP device.
Folding device, with keyboard and built-in wireless...
Anyway, I wonder if they are continuing with progress on a device like this...?!


Yup, I was just looking at the reference to that. See http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6367 for a picture.

[Paul P]

Yes... looks very nice but is it?

1) Memory Stick still!
2) Crippled Memeory Stick capability at that!
3) 3.2" screen? No matter how finely detailed the text/resolution etc. that is a dumb step backwards for Sony.
4) That keyboard! C'mon - a separate Stowaway or built-in thumbboard maybe, but this is just an awkward compromise!

Is it just me or do the 'twist' Clies miss the point of a PDA? In what way do any of the 'innovative' features of these Clies make for an improved user experience? These are just expensive toys...

I think it's more and more harder to say that MS is crippled. It's like saying SD is crippled when used with iPaq. With intergrated Wifi and bluetooth, there is no need for the memory stick to have any functionality beyond that of storage.

As for the keyboard, I'd probably settle for just about any compromise. I've recently started traveling and even the smallest accessories seem cumbersome to carry along. As small as the slim expansion keyboard is, I still feel burdened.

I think different viewing angles help relieve some of the strain on your eyes. Also, it's a matter of convenience, or at least that's how I perceive it.

With it's capabilities, this thing will do just about anything for Palm folks. So I guess we are all carrying toys here.

[ipaq-PHD]

My first impression is that this form factor will be the basis for the soon to be released PSP. Just imagine a PDA which also also serves as a true portable gaming device ! 8O

[Christian]

As much as I like my PocketPC, this device looks really sweet. 8O

Why does it seem that half the time Sony is the only handheld company capable of innovating at this level?

[mangochutneyman]

Here are some pics comparing it to the Zaurus SL-C700 series:
http://palmoslove.com/work/feature/ux50/10.jpghttp://palmoslove.com/work/feature/ux50/9.jpg
http://palmoslove.com/work/feature/ux50/11.jpg

http://palmoslove.com/work/feature/news20030717.html

[TawnerX]

Where are the Pocket PC OEMs willing to step up and create innovative form-factors like this? :|

It's Microsoft narrow definition what PPC should be. It is NOT PPC OEM fault, observer HP's prototype presentation of a PPC with buitl in folding keyboard.

Observe also how Microsoft is still trying to differentiate between Handheld PC, HandPC and PocketPC. A complete idiotic line of thinking since we know how dead Hanheld PC is. Almost nobody writes software for it, and manufacturer cannot push down price because of how small the sale is. Anybody want to buy handPC? They only cost $1000 and run .net with occassional PPC apps compatibility.

This on top of the rumor by how PPC team was going utterly bonker when told to share their API to other CE products, trying to defend their turf.

And historically, Microsoft also insist on a very rigid definition what WinCE device should be. Remember CE 1/2, where manufacturer should have keyboard?

It's "Windows Mobile" stupid! Nice marketing innitiative, but it's time to make it real product policy. (yes I know input and screensize are different , but more and more all of these platform has very similar CPU capability. So I don't know how they suppose to do it, but make them all compatible, at least the binary.)


And fergawdsake, som OEM in PPC better come up with significantly higher resolution product for high end by THIS christmas, not next year. We don't want stinkin' excuse about 'compatibilty', 'no market', or whatever other corporate policy and marketing spin. ........... We want it period and they better work smoothly too.

[Jafar]

Intermec 6651/Sharp Telios was the device of all devices that should have really taken the handheld pc world by storm.

http://www.pencomputing.com/frames/textblock_intermec_6651.html

Too bad it's price scared everyone away :? I have one right now that I purchased for $300 and it's amazing what I can do with the device, but the biggest problem is finding MIPS HPC software. Just my 2 cents.

Jafar

[Chris Spera]

Whats innovative about that form factor..Psion did it years ago! And with a better keyboard (from what you can see in the photo)

So did Casio, HP and a number of others. The form factor was/ is called HPC/ HPC Pro.

...If it had a built-in phone like my i700, I'd think twice. Otherwise, it's just a nice looking toy.

I agree. One of the reasons why HPC/ HPC Pro's failed was because they were too big. Most people didn't go for the clam shell. they wanted something that they could hold and work with in one hand.


Personally, I liked the HPC Pro. I had a Jornada 680, and thought it was cool. My only problem was that as a touch typist, it was (and still is) hard to touch type on so small a keyboard.

If this device had a phone in it, this could be a serious competitor. However, because it is running Palm OS, I don't see it making too big of a splash.


Kind Regards,


Christopher Spera

[Scott R]

I don't care for the landscape-only format. I also think that the price will be a bit higher than rumored, which is too expensive, IMO. More of my thoughts here:
http://goodthatway.com/news_arc/?id=25

Scott

[Duncan]

I think it's more and more harder to say that MS is crippled. It's like saying SD is crippled when used with iPaq. With intergrated Wifi and bluetooth, there is no need for the memory stick to have any functionality beyond that of storage.

I'm not referring to MS being crippled innately - this device has only a limited ability to use the forms of MS memory that are available (Babelfish Sony's own site and see what it says!). Mind you Clie owners themselves complain about the slowness of MS in general... As for "there is no need for the memory stick to have any functionality beyond that of storage." - you have got to be kidding?!!

As for the keyboard, I'd probably settle for just about any compromise. I've recently started traveling and even the smallest accessories seem cumbersome to carry along. As small as the slim expansion keyboard is, I still feel burdened.

I frequently work on the train using just Calligrapher and Fitaly - if I want to I can add a thumb keyboard (which can stay permanently attached) or use a Stowaway - all Sony are doing is restricting choice...

With it's capabilities, this thing will do just about anything for Palm folks. So I guess we are all carrying toys here.

Don't get me wrong - if this was a full clamshell (not one of these novelty twist things), had a screen size that made sense and could use CF or SD - then I could see it as a useful business tool. Instead all I can see is a collection of gimmicks - which makes it a toy.

[kwjohnson]

I still have a Jornada 690 I fire up once in a while--and I managed to make it my laptop replacement for a major streak of business meetings. It was perfect for long airport waits and tightened security post-9/11. I could easily touch type on it even with big hands, but it was too big to carry all the time.

A e740 with a Belkin keyboard works well because I can take the PocketPC basically everywhere and still hook up the keyboard for bigger text jobs. But with a smaller screen it's no laptop replacement.

With the e740 dead in the water I'm wondering where we'll be in a year when it's time for both a new laptop and new PDA. Not likely anywhere near what I really want--a wifi XP machine with the form factor of my 690. But at least this might nudge PocketPC makers to think outside the box.

[powder2000]

Chris Spera wrote:
So did Casio, HP and a number of others. The form factor was/ is called HPC/ HPC Pro.


Ah, but none of them could fold over on themselves and be used like a tablet. The intermec design was unique in this manner.

[stevenf]

In addition to my PocketPC, I've also owned a Clie NX70V (as well as other PDAs).

Clies are wonderful pieces of hardware, but Palm OS leaves so much to be desired.

NetFront for Palm, for example, can't render entire pages about 80% of the time. (Which is a shame because it does a GREAT JOB of rendering. Curiously, better than NetFront for PPC, because the text remains readable when you zoom out.) Apparently there is some sort of inherent memory limitation in Palm OS (not storage memory, runtime memory) and NetFront just runs out. A dialog pops up that says "Page too large!" and it cuts off the page at however far it got.

It's really useful for browsing the top half of web pages, though.

ClieMail is mostly useless to me because it doesn't support IMAP. It doesn't even pretend to. POP or nothing.

Of course, there are 3rd party alternatives, but now you're spending even more money on shareware... etc.

So, like so many PDAs, this looks great, but I think actually using it would be a different story.

[mar2k]

This is an amazing looking device. I could never buy one due to the fact I have already spent a small fortune on SD and CF flash memory. The price of this thing is going to be in the $600-700 range I am sure. To get a decent sized memory stick to be able to play back movies, 512MB at least you are looking at another $200 or so. I cannot justify spending that kind of money on a PDA of any sort. For that kind of money I can upgrade my main PC.

That said, I like what is happening on the Palm OS front and wish the same kind of innovation would hit the Pocket PC world. Basically all the Pocket PCs are exactly the same, jack of all trades, master of none, same specs etc etc. I love what a company like Tapwave is trying to do, a PalmOS powered gaming machine at a moderate price. I mean, that's fantastic. Why can't we have a Pocket PC with a rumble pack and dual batteries and 3D Acceleration. Then there's Garmin, with a GPS device with PalmOS built in - nice idea. I shrug when I see Microsoft initiatives like Media2Go. Why can't a Pocket PC licensee just step up with a device that specializes in media but runs on top of Windows Mobile for Pocket PC? in other words, why not have all sorts of devices that happen to run Pocket PC OS, why do Pocket PCs have to be devices unto themselves. Isn't that really Microsoft's vision?

[guinness]

It looks ok, but it sounds more like the clamshell Clies, all they did was put the hinge on the long side of the device and put POS 5.2 on it. If the NX80 is $600 and the NZ90 is $800, I would imagine that this would cost somewhere around that price range.

[Foo Fighter]

This truly is a stunning device. But the rumored price of $600 makes it impractical and ill fated, in my opinion. The days of high ticket price handhelds is drawing to a close. For all practical purposes, anything priced above $400 is going to appeal only the the extreme hardcore enthusiast. At $400 it would fly. At $600 it's going to flounder. Especially in the current economic state.

I hope this pricing is just a rumor. If it is, I will jump on it. But as it is, I would say the upcoming Tungsten T2 is more practical in terms of value.

[Janak Parekh]

Mind you Clie owners themselves complain about the slowness of MS in general... As for "there is no need for the memory stick to have any functionality beyond that of storage." - you have got to be kidding?!!
I agree, the MS is the worst thing about this device. :pukeface:

I frequently work on the train using just Calligrapher and Fitaly - if I want to I can add a thumb keyboard (which can stay permanently attached) or use a Stowaway - all Sony are doing is restricting choice...
Well, they do have many devices for many folks. I think it's too premature to comment on this yet. If the keyboard is useable, I'd be very happy with this form factor, myself.

Instead all I can see is a collection of gimmicks - which makes it a toy.
Again, it's early, and we don't know the full details yet. It might turn out to be one -- the vertical virtual graffiti freaks me out. On the other hand, if Sony engineers it right, this could be a nice HPC-like unit. It's certainly a very cleverly engineered toy, and potentially a powerful device. ;)

--janak

[Bichcake]

I liked the fold out keyboard on the secret video. I think we all remember the Ibm butterfly! if they are going to monopolize space with a keyboard it should be like that.

Otherwise i would like to see a double lcd device. it would eat up batteries but it would accomidate a larger battery. plus if you needed a keyboard you could use a full screen keyboard, and would actualy be able to see paragraphs as you type! if they were to concentrate on this design i think they would be able to minimize the seam between the screens as well.

but i supose we will have to wait for the next generation of video chips for pda's cause it would probably put too much load on the cpu to do anything acceptably.

[David Prahl]

In the real world, I only see people with low end Clies or palms, and the occasional Pocket PC. I've never seen or heard of anyone I know owning an NG, NX, or NZ device. They're AWESOME devices, but for $600 to $800 (without goodies), you can buy a cheap notebook or decent PC.

I like the idea of being able to fold the UX50 up on itself and stuff it in my pocket. Sony is the only major PDA OEM that has devices that don't require a case to protect the screen.

What's the deal with that camera? Are we talking more of that 640x480 crap, or are we looking at a 1.3 or better? :?:

Sony is huge. Really huge! 8O If they'd stop releasing a new device every month and concentrate on ADVERTISING, they could really be in the money. No OEM has ever really advertised their devices on TV. I believe that the first company to do a 30 second "demo" of their device on national televison will win the PDA race for a while.

In summation: Sony, stop developing so many devices and start advertising! :mrgreen:

[David Prahl]

What was that last photo from http://www.pdafrance.com/?
(you have to scroll down a bit to see the UX50 stuff)

A standard and high-capacity battery?

[Felix Torres]

Read the fine print, guys:

16 Mb free RAM for applications and user data.
For $600?
With a 3.2" screen?

Next!

[David Prahl]

CAMERA INFORMATION

From the Sony Japan site...(without Japanese installed)

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LOOK AGAIN!!!

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To quote Felix Torres... "Next!"
:lol:

[gorkon280]

Chris Spera wrote:
So did Casio, HP and a number of others. The form factor was/ is called HPC/ HPC Pro.


Ah, but none of them could fold over on themselves and be used like a tablet. The intermec design was unique in this manner.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004T2LL/ref=e_de_a_smp/002-3704644-4499224?v=glance&s=electronics&vi=pictures&img=14#more-pictures

And the Vadem Clio did not do this? They pioneered it. Too bad Microsoft all but killed it.

[Venturello]

Did not take the time to read the comments but I guess they are along the same lines as me... daaaaamn!!! 8O this is sweeet hardware!! WHOEVER CONVINCED SONY TO BASE ALL THEIR PDA TECHNOLOGY ON PALM OS NEEDS TO BE HANGED OFF BY HIS &lt;you know> IN A PUBLIC PLACE!!

Grrrr.... I... will.... resist.... buying.... anything... palm...

Whatever. Many pocketpc vendors seems to be coming out with similar technology so... NEXT!!!

[Timothy Rapson]

Sharp and Sony have consistently put all other PDA manufacturers since Psion to shame. Real shame. There is no good reason why HP and Microsoft could not have exactly this out on the market a year ago.

Notwithstanding that, it is this week that I have decided to get a PPC again.

1. The Zayo for $200 was just too good a deal to pass up.

2. No more Memory Stink. Ever. I won't deal with a company that lies to it's loyal customers like Sony did in promising me 1 gig capacity on my NR just months before shoving me overboard. IF Sony did this with memory stick, what would keep them from dumping Palm OS this Christmas and putting some goofy game system OS on their PDAs?

3. A FILE SYSTEM. My Clie has never had an easy time getting files to and from my desktop as so few programs have good desktops clients. With PPC I don't need any stinking clients.

4. 16 Meg?! Come on Sony. You even sell an $800 NZ with a silly, totally silly 16 meg of RAM available. Get with the program!

5. This Clie will be the EIGHTH Palm OS model with a camera. But, can I edit photos on my Clie? Nope. Can I get any third party application to edit them on my Clie? Nope. I want Pocket Artist, TextMaker, and PocketAtlas on my PDA. Gonna get 'em this week or next.

[Bill Gunn]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004T2LL/ref=e_de_a_smp/002-3704644-4499224?v=glance&s=electronics&vi=pictures&img=14#more-pictures

And the Vadem Clio did not do this? They pioneered it. Too bad Microsoft all but killed it.

The Clio was the sweetest form factor ever; years ahead of the Tablet PC. Unfortunately, not many people agreed at the time.

[Dr. Grabow]

The most horrific thing about the Sony NZ line is that for $800 it has only 11MB free of the 16MB installed when fresh out of the box.

Palm has shown that a Palm OS device can quite nicely use 64MB, and my next PDA will be the Ipaq 5550 because of the 128MB.

It's a joke to release a "high end" pda in either the Palm OS or Pocket PC world without maximum onboard RAM.

Next!

[nightmare]

Read the fine print, guys:

16 Mb free RAM for applications and user data.
For $600?
With a 3.2" screen?

Next!


Keep reading the fine print. There is an extra 22 MB RAM for storing MPG, JPG, and MP3 multimedia files. There is another 16 MB used for automatic data backup whenever power runs low.

Also, although the direct Yen conversion goes to $590, Clie's are $100 more expensive in the US market. They made this $700 to not impose on the NX80v.

I'm impressed by the ideas, not the device. It's pretty ugly, but if some of this tech is incorporated into cheaper devices... wow.

Oh, and I almost forgot about NetFront. This device has 16 MB dynamic heap. The NX70v had 5 MB heap, which wasn't enough. NetFront is a great browser on Palm OS with enough heap space.

[Felix Torres]

Read the fine print, guys:

16 Mb free RAM for applications and user data.
For $600?
With a 3.2" screen?

Next!


Keep reading the fine print. There is an extra 22 MB RAM for storing MPG, JPG, and MP3 multimedia files. There is another 16 MB used for automatic data backup whenever power runs low.

Also, although the direct Yen conversion goes to $590, Clie's are $100 more expensive in the US market. They made this $700 to not impose on the NX80v.

I'm impressed by the ideas, not the device. It's pretty ugly, but if some of this tech is incorporated into cheaper devices... wow.

Fine!
Read the whole article!

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111606,00.asp

The 23Mb extra ram is FLASH RAM not working RAM.
Not even as useful as a memory stick.

[beq]

Here are some pics comparing it to the Zaurus SL-C700 series:
http://palmoslove.com/work/feature/news20030717.html
Sweet pics mango. Anyways besides the latest Sharp, didn't one of Janak's Cebit photos also had some "mini convertible tablet pc" type gadget? Maybe it was one of those Jap phones tho...

Anyways what about Sony's U101 mini laptop w/ the 7" LCD (dimensions 7" x 5.5" x 1.3"). They're releasing every design they can think of to see what sticks :)

[mangochutneyman]

Read the fine print, guys:

16 Mb free RAM for applications and user data.
For $600?
With a 3.2" screen?

Next!

Also, just to clarify: PCWorld has given a more clear description of the memory in th UX50:

The PDA has 96MB of memory split between a 32MB bank of synchronous DRAM and 64MB bank of flash memory. After space has been claimed by the operating system and preinstalled software, there is a total of 38MB available to users, split as 16MB of SDRAM for applications and 22MB of flash memory for storage of multimedia files.


Also the 64 megabits of DRAM, the Clie's graphics engine, and the interfaces for the camera and MemoryStick slot are all included in the ARM926 core, thus cutting down on the number of chips inside the PDA.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111606,00.asp

[Programmer]

It was a while back, so I can't recall where I found it, but on my hard drive, I have a Flash demo of a "Top-Secret" HP device.
Folding device, with keyboard and built-in wireless...
Anyway, I wonder if they are continuing with progress on a device like this...?!


Yup, I was just looking at the reference to that. See http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6367 for a picture.

or the vid here (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/files/top_secret.zip).

[David Prahl]

:jawdrop: Wow! I've never seen that!

What's the story? Is there another thread or site with info about it?

I'll buy one!

[mscdex]

Jason! Snap out of it! You're not gonna buy that Palm! :lol:

[Massman82]

This artile at Brighthand explains many of the questions that everyone has been having: http://www.brighthand.com/article/Sony_Announcing_Wireless_Handheld_on_Friday

[Prevost]

Yes... looks very nice but is it?

1) Memory Stick still!
2) Crippled Memeory Stick capability at that!
3) 3.2" screen? No matter how finely detailed the text/resolution etc. that is a dumb step backwards for Sony.
4) That keyboard! C'mon - a separate Stowaway or built-in thumbboard maybe, but this is just an awkward compromise!

Is it just me or do the 'twist' Clies miss the point of a PDA? In what way do any of the 'innovative' features of these Clies make for an improved user experience? These are just expensive toys...In agreement to dead!
To use it, got a chair. No way you do something while standing...unless you turn around the screen and leave away every hard navigation key.

Also, the idea is NOT new apart from the rotary screen part...that gives nothing to you but "fashion?"

As I said in other thread, Sony only looks to impress with their supposed innovation and technical abilities. The best proof is they insist with the otherwise doomed Memory Stick just to say their own expansion media is better.

[Prevost]

SONY really makes the palm OS shine. sure wish pocketpc would come up with more inovative devices...I am (still) on Palm and Sony DOES NOT make me see the Palm OS's shine, but :oops:

If Pocket PC is ever coming up with THIS kind of innovation...well, maybe not. They already came up with Handheld PC. If they ever do, would be just to kick Sony's ass back.

[TheZodiac]

buy this then....
http://www.dynamism.com/nexio/main.jpg

You Got Your Toy! (http://www.dynamism.com/nexio/index.shtml) &lt;Clickasaurus)

Dont blow your head off in the process :)
http://www.killerconcepts.com/faces/splodebird.gif

[Kevin Daly]

For all devotees of www.sluggy.com:
"Stay good Jason, stay good!".

Even with the restrictions of the Pocket PC platform, there's nothing to prevent OEMs from producing a more innovative device based on Windows CE.

It will be interesting to see whether the name change from Pocket PC to Windows Mobile will also lead to a broader set of specifications (other than just stretching the point to cover Smartphone).

I always liked the form factor of the Psion devices (and the size of most of them), it's a shame that Psion didn't carry on with their consumer devices and update them...at the very least it would've provided some useful competition for Palm and Pocket PC. 0X

[portnoy]

Why can't they make a decent device that has NO keyboard? I'd go back to POS in a heartbeat, if they would couple that totally cool screen on a device that has NO FRELLING KEYBOARD. I don't need the bother of that "beggin' to be broken" origami hinge thing. Just a good flip cover, POS 5+ and that nice big screen and virtual graffiti, now that would be heaven.

[kamodt]

NEC is supposed to be working with Bsquare on this one. It runs WCE.NET, has a 4" VGA display, and is a wireless phone too! Plus, the keyboard hides underneath if you don't need it.

http://www.pdablast.com/images/articles/powerhandheld.jpg


Why would anyone want to use 1/3 of the display for Graffiti?

KAmodt

[Scott R]

3. A FILE SYSTEM. My Clie has never had an easy time getting files to and from my desktop as so few programs have good desktops clients. With PPC I don't need any stinking clients.

5. This Clie will be the EIGHTH Palm OS model with a camera. But, can I edit photos on my Clie? Nope. Can I get any third party application to edit them on my Clie? Nope. I want Pocket Artist, TextMaker, and PocketAtlas on my PDA. Gonna get 'em this week or next.These two and the lack of multitasking are what I see as three of the biggest problems with Palm OS right now (well, the lack of a full-featured photo editor is more of a problem for me personally).

I'd say that the photo editor is just a matter of time. Sony already bundles a limited-feature one with their CLIEs. I don't need a whole lot, just the ability to crop, rotate, resize with antialiasing, and maybe a couple of other things. Again, this is just a matter of time as OS5/ARM devices seem to plenty powerful enough to offer it already.

I suspect that the file system support will be much improved in OS6, though I don't know for sure. PalmSource CEO David Nagel recently made mention of built-in support for common file types, but that doesn't specifically address support for native file types. Read more here: http://goodthatway.com/news_arc/?id=26

Multitasking is definitely supposed to be part of Palm OS 6.

Scott

[Mitch D]

Where are the Pocket PC OEMs willing to step up and create innovative form-factors like this? :|

I second that vote... well maybe more than second it... The Pocket PC has so much going for it but a unit that size would be an instant buy for me if only it ran Mobile 2003 and not the Palm OS. Although I am looking forward to seeing this in my display case at work.

[beq]

The debate about real-life usability vs. gee-whiz techno-lust kinda reminds me of laptops :)

I tried to convince someone about the superiority of IBM's ThinkPad T40, but his eyes would glaze over and I know he's thinking about those gee-whiz Japanese laptops. I argued about how the T40 holds its own in terms of state-of-the-art hardware technology, but doesn't sacrifice usability or ergonomics in the process.

Like pioneering smaller 9.5mm optical drive bay, category-leading "Centrino"/battery implementation, dual-band UltraConnect WiFi antenna + BT, hardware TCPA Embedded Security Subsystem 2.0, etc -- but at the same time holding firm on not compromising its excellent keyboard's deep key travel/wide pitch, UltraNav TrackPoint/touchpad combo, ThinkLight keyboard light, extra-strong titanium casing, HDD insulation, etc. And still manage a 1"-thin, 4.5-lb form factor with excellent battery life. Finally topped off w/ helpful and well thought-out bundled software solutions (hidden-partition Rapid Restore PC backup imaging, Access Connections network profiles, various automated update channels, etc).

But he's still drooling at those quirky laptop designs...

[shindullin]

bitequator = the laptop debate is really like trying to sell a tank (IBM) to a guy who wants a sports car (VAIO etc.). Flavors of the the same thing.
This debate seems to be more like whether you want a PIM on steroids (PPC) or a really small laptop (anything w a keyboard). Actually different uses for totally different devices.

[shindullin]

or maybe it should be an SUV to a guy who wants a sports car. The tank thing doesn't really work.

[Scott R]

I tried to convince someone about the superiority of IBM's ThinkPad T40, but his eyes would glaze over and I know he's thinking about those gee-whiz Japanese laptops.I've long been a fan of most of IBM's Thinkpads. They've made some lousy ones, too, but I like my 600X a lot. I also can't stand touchpads, which sadly limits my choices.

Scott

[Kevin Daly]

or maybe it should be an SUV to a guy who wants a sports car. The tank thing doesn't really work.

On the other hand, most SUVs are sold to people whose needs would probably be more closely met by a sports car... :twisted:

[Will T Smith]

Yes... looks very nice but is it?

1) Memory Stick still!
2) Crippled Memeory Stick capability at that!
3) 3.2" screen? No matter how finely detailed the text/resolution etc. that is a dumb step backwards for Sony.
4) That keyboard! C'mon - a separate Stowaway or built-in thumbboard maybe, but this is just an awkward compromise!

Is it just me or do the 'twist' Clies miss the point of a PDA? In what way do any of the 'innovative' features of these Clies make for an improved user experience? These are just expensive toys...

I dare say it's ALL YOU!!!!

Different people use handhelds in different ways. I too probably wouldn't go for this as I don't think qwerty keyboards are compatible with handheld devices (Fitaly on the other hand would rock).

This device is a real trend-setter. Whether the trend is successful is yet to be seen. The twisty screen is great, it's like a VERY small tablet allowing the device to be used in portrait "pen" mode or landscape "keyboard" mode.

Oh, and I dare say that this COMPLETELY blows away an iPaq with a stowaway keyboard in term of convenience and screen resolution.

I personally believe that Clie's "twisty" style screens are the way of the future. There are a LOT of things that you could concievably put on the half shell. And, of course, the built in screen protection is perfectly welcome.

If they put a Fitaly keyboard on the half shell, they might have a convert.

[Janak Parekh]

buy this then....
Oh, I want to; but I'm not going to pay Dynamism for it. Darn it, Samsung, release the NEXiO here!!!

For all devotees of www.sluggy.com:
"Stay good Jason, stay good!".
Heheheheheh. You assume Jason's going to listen to Kiki? :lol:

--janak

[dean_shan]

There are a LOT of things that you could concievably put on the half shell
Like say, a Ninja Turtle. They're a hero in a half shell.

[beq]

Heh... Anyways I should've clarified, instead of all "Japanese laptops" I only meant some laptops marketed in Japan, many of which veer away from proven usability designs for novelty's sake.

I was just trying to say that in the ThinkPad's case for example, the miniaturization and technology advancement certainly occur "under the hood" or behind the scenes, but they seem unwilling to compromise on any parts that interact with the user. They could certainly shrink the keyboard's depth and size some, or remove all the extra TrackPoint and touchpad buttons and the ThinkLight, or use a lighter/thinner casing alloy, etc...

[PJE]

My main disappointment with the Sony device is the small size of the screen. I would like the full 3.8" display in the lid rather than the smaller screen and a hefty border.

I can't comment on memory useage/availability without actually using the machine day-to-day.

Hopefully this device, and the similar Sharp models will kick some PocketPC manufacturer into action... wait!, while the new OS can support landscape and hi-res screens all the applications have been lazily coded for the existing screen size/orientation!!!!!! :evil:

[Jason Dunn]

And the Vadem Clio did not do this? They pioneered it. Too bad Microsoft all but killed it.

The Clio rocked - but the components needed to build it, at the time, were expensive. And the OEMs all wanted laptop-like prices, which is not Microsoft's fault. If the Clio sold for $499, it would have sold huge numbers - instead it was $999 and people were comparing it to a laptop... :|

[Jason Dunn]

I tried to convince someone about the superiority of IBM's ThinkPad T40, but his eyes would glaze over and I know he's thinking about those gee-whiz Japanese laptops. I argued about how the T40 holds its own in terms of state-of-the-art hardware technology, but doesn't sacrifice usability or ergonomics in the process.

&lt;sigh> If only IBM would hire a real industrial designer, instead of having one of their engineers develop it. IBM products have consistently been the most God-awful UGLY things on the market for over a decade now.

IBM might mean business, but I want to have a laptop with a bit of STYLE.

[beq]

Huh I don't know what IBM you're talking about, but the ThinkPads are all very pretty-like (in a manly sort of way)! I dunno why no one tries to copy their sleek black look...

[ctmagnus]

There are a LOT of things that you could concievably put on the half shell
Like say, a Ninja Turtle. They're a hero in a half shell.

My god! I was recently seriously considering changing my avatar to Shredder! You must be the same age I am. ;)

[cdunphy]

I tried to convince someone about the superiority of IBM's ThinkPad T40, but his eyes would glaze over and I know he's thinking about those gee-whiz Japanese laptops.

Hey, another IBM T-series fan!

I spent a lot of time last year searching for the ultimate laptop. I wanted something with a higher-than 1024x768 resolution screen, and with a built in optical drive, but which was still WAY portable.

The IBM T30 so outclassed every other laptop I looked at at the time. The T40 looks to be more of the same - I only wish I had an excuse to upgrade.

IBM and Apple are the two best companies at designing laptops right now, by far.

- chris

(Obligatory PalmOS Plug) -- More and more announced (and rumored) PalmOS devices will be supporting landscape orientation... Can your Pocket PC do that? (without a hack....) ;-)

[beq]

^ Nice, way to stick together, we band of brothers... (OK no more caffeine for me, I need to finish up and go home!) :) Stellarmetrics is also invited to the club (but sssh quietly, I think Jason's a bit grumpy at him right now). Anyways you should check out how thin and light the new T40 is (I noticed it when laid side by side to a relative's T30).

OK here goes @ T40/T40p (takes a deep breath):
1" thick, 4.5" lbs base, 7hrs+ w/ the standard hi-capacity battery (plus 2hrs+ with drive bay battery), 1400x1050 SXGA+, ATI MRadeon 9000 or FireGL 9000 64MB, Pentium-M 1.6GHz, 512MB DDR, 80GB HDD, new ultra-slim 9.5mm DVD-ROM/CD-RW (DVD writer coming soon), USB 2.0, gigabit Ethernet, 802.11a+b (802.11a+g later) with independently tested best-in-class UltraConnect dual-band antenna, Bluetooth + FIR, awesome TrackPoint + UltraNav touchpad w/ dedicated buttons, unbeatable keyboard (joy to use, I never noticed how key travel depth makes a difference), ThinkLight keyboard light to see in the dark, super-stiff titanium casing (try to bend the screen for example, you can't), etc...

(takes another deep breath):
impressive Rapid Restore PC backup imaging (accessible from both Windows or BIOS to hidden partition), Access Connections stored network profiles, one-button extended power management profiles (Battery MaxiMizer) coupled with multi-head display profiles (Presentation Director), hardware TCPA-compliant Embedded Security Subsystem 2.0 chip (password manager, transparent file/folder encryption, PKI keys, etc), centralized hardware configuration (ThinkPad Configuration Utility), various automated update routines and alerts (Update Connector, Software Installer, etc)... all accessible from the convenient Access IBM button (even tech support)...

EDIT: BTW, in regards to the 1940-yellow-screen thread, I've noticed the same unit-to-unit variation even w/ the ThinkPad laptops. Had bought both a T40 (92U) and T40p (G1U). The 92U has a considerably brighter screen and a different color tone/bias (I think it's maybe more neutral) whereas the G1U's backlight is not as bright and it looks more.. I guess milky like the original iPAQ screens. Really noticeable when put side by side, but otherwise they're both really good.

EDIT2: Sorry to stray so far off-topic, mod Steven :(

[Kevin Daly]

Huh I don't know what IBM you're talking about, but the ThinkPads are all very pretty-like (in a manly sort of way)! I dunno why no one tries to copy their sleek black look...

I thought the very same thing, and lusted after one for some time, but then when I saw it up close I decided it had more of a sleek cheap plasticky look (especially the mouse).

[ctmagnus]

but then when I saw it up close I decided it had more of a sleek cheap plasticky look (especially the mouse).

I agree. That's why I try to avoid IBM if at all possible.

[jkabaseball]

oh man, this is what i wanted to see when ppc 2003 came out. bt+wifi+landscape. Its about time someone came out with one of these. Oh mand the dark side is looking good. I want to keep ppc but if sonys bring these master peices theres no turning back

[Jonathon Watkins]

:jawdrop: Wow! I've never seen that!

What's the story? Is there another thread or site with info about it?

I'll buy one!

It's a mockup of a preposed Ipaq design (perhaps). I'd get one in a heartbeat (if it had 640x480). :wink:

[etalianstallion]

I didn't read through the entire thread yet, so I apologize in advance if this is repeat information.

Was just browsing through StateStreetDirect and saw that they have these new handhelds for preorder:

Sony CLIE PEG-UX50 (http://www.ssdonline.com/detail_page.cfm?productid=PEGUX50&cfid=5531954&cftoken=95468658&sonystore=1), $699

Sony CLIE PEG-UX40 (http://www.ssdonline.com/detail_page.cfm?productid=PEGUX40&cfid=5531954&cftoken=95468658&sonystore=1), $599

Gotta admit, this device looks pretty sweet....