To Close, Or Not To Close?

[Ed Hansberry]

The Pocket PC is different from your desktop in a number of ways, as it should be. It is a different platform. There are a number of things on the Pocket PC I would like to see adopted on the desktop. One of my favorites is the Document View applications have. When I open Excel on my PC I am staring at a blank document. When I open it on my Pocket PC, I am staring at a list of Excel file. The latter is far more likely to be useful for me. I spend much more time updating and reviewing files rather than starting from scratch.<br /><br />Another area the Pocket PC and desktop differ greatly is how to close applications. There are several ways to close programs on the desktop: press the big "X" in the upper right corner, select File|Close from the menu, or press ALT-F4. Plus you can get nasty with the Task Manager if necessary. On the Pocket PC, you are to leave the application alone. If it hangs for some reason, there is a 8+ tap backdoor via Start|Settings|System|Memory|Running Programs|Select App|Stop|Ok. Beyond that, the Pocket PC should handle your memory for you, efficiently closing applications as they fade to the background having been unused for a while. Microsoft is so much in favor of this method, they withhold their logo certification from any application that includes an "Exit" command anywhere within the menu structure.<br /><br />So, does this work for you? Once you vote, add a comment supporting why you voted the way you did. I am interested in hearing a wide array of opinions. Sometime next week, I will follow up with a summary of the voting, the comments and then add my own opinion.

[mv]

Well, the need for a separate task manager is the biggest fault in the ppc os imho. :twisted:

[Mike Temporale]

I selected "I manage my Pocket PC just like my desktop and close apps as I see fit."

I am in and out of Pocket Excel all day/night. I have found that if I close the application, it takes too long to open it next time. I only close the small applications that I use once in a while - like games, or conversion utils. Any of the heavier apps I leave running and let the PPC handle them.

[burtman007]

Memory on a desktop is dirt cheap these days. I can open my e-mail, MS Word, Excel, IE, and anything else and leave it open all day long if I want. W? BIC! 512MB is why!!!

Memory on my PPC is at a premium though. I have to micromanage that little tiny space as much as I can, or suffer performance issues.

What I'm really getting at here is: GIMMIE MY CLOSE BUTTON!!!

[bjornkeizers]

I usually just close things when I don't need them anymore, or when memory gets low. It's really annoying quite a few apps don't have an exit button: makes it so much easier for me to shut it down without having to jump through hoops.

I don't use certain apps all that much, like the contacts, agenda, word, excel.. but I do like to read or play quake, both activities that require a lot of memory.. so whenever I want to read or play a game, I have to shut down all my other programs! It's really annoying! They should :bangin: the person who thought up this stupid idea..

[heov]

ms's strategy would be great, if it actually worked. i notice slowdows all the time w/ large programs. heck, even all the OEMs include a task manager. MS needs to at least put in the OPTION to enable close...

[ux4484]

Like my PC

I'll leave pretty much any of the PIM stuff open, but things like Media player, Photo software, File explorer or games all get closed upon completion of the session they were opened for, otherwise things start to slow down which is my #1 irk.

I like an exit button/menu selection, when I try an app that has one, it's more likely to get my nod (and $$$) than one without it with similar features.

[MasterOfMoo]

I learned early to despise the lack of an actual "exit" from an application when using my first Pocket PC (one of the first run of the 3600 iPAQs). With the daily use of multiple applications, the "sleep-like" exiting of applications meant that additional resources were being tied up needlessly, increasing throughout the day. I had hoped that would have been an issue addressed in the Pocket PC 2002 OS, but we all know that wasn't the case either.

As a result, I've habitually added applications like WisBar (http://www.pelmarinc.com), not for their aesthetic aspects, but because it easily gives me direct access to actually close programs when I'm done with them.

[blantrip]

This has got to be the most one-sided poll I've ever seen. MS should read and head.

If it wasn't for Wisbar or similar apps, I'm sure I would be a disatisfied PPC user. Luckily these apps make it easy to close programs and therfore manage my PPC memory/speed.

Thanks Wisbar

[The Yaz]

While I will close programs as I see fit, it is more of a force of habit than necessity. When I first started with my Casio E125, I had to clear the memory out before I opened my budget worksheets in Excel. Out of 32mgs, 3mgs would go to the OS, 15mgs were files in storage, and opening Excel would slow it down severely if I did not remember to close Windows Media Player.

Today I am using an Audiovox Maestro which has the same ram but of course a better processor and software. I feel that the memory management works better and the need to manage the memory is not as necessary. My favorite pastime on the train to and from work is listeneing to music and playing a game on the Maestro. It works seamlessly as long as I remember to turn off the sound on the game I'm playing.

As to Microsoft's reluctance in truly "closing" an app, I feel that there is a logic to it.

1. As long as there is enough memory on hand, why not keep the program active. By keeping it in ram, it will be available so much quicker if the user goes back to it.

2. The other difference is that Pocketpc are not meant to be mini computers. Microsoft views them as appliances and wants the consumer's interaction with them to be as smooth and simple as you would expect from a cell phone or a cd player.

It more of a quirk than a problem.

Steve 8)

[jpaq]

I chose "I manage my Pocket PC just like my desktop and close apps as I see fit."

There are several reasons for my selection:

1. The PPC2k2 OS does not know what my next application need will be. It may require a large amount of memory, it may not. When I do open an app. that does need a high amount of memory, I shouldn't have to wait for PPC2k2 to ponder whether or not I need more memory or not and suffer poor performance until the OS is ready to make its move. Unless ALL apps. (MS and all others) are coded identically with some level of priority embedded, the OS can't know when I need what. Closing an app. when I haven't used it for a while (as determined by a programmer a year and a half ago when he/she coded this) or by some arbitrary set of rules is not likely to (also determined by a programmer forever ago) is not likley to take all current and future needs into account.

2. It's my device. If I want to close it, I should be able to.

3. Until MS can get it right, I want to be able to close it. Example: Activesync. It hangs open, needlessly, until you close it on your device.

4. It's my device.

5. It would seem that the vast majority of users want it. Those who don't are likley less technically savy, innocent victims who complain of degraded performance not realizing that it is likley due to the lack of available resources because the Excel spreadsheet they looked at a week ago is still open eating up memory.

6. Did I mention that it's mine and I should be able to close what I want to close?

What is so difficult about this concept? Why is MS so intent on keeping the PPC this way?

For the love of all that is good, WHY!!!!
:soapbox:

[Chairman Clench]

Considering that there is a huge number of 3rd party apps that add close functionality and further considering that pretty much EVERY OEM has added an app to give easier close functionality, I really fail to understand why M$ hasn't listened on this issue.

This is really the thing that throws a lot of people off when using a PPC. Since 1995 M$ has been training us that a little "X" in the upper right corner of the screen means CLOSE... except on a PPC.

One of the things that M$ touts as an advantage to the PPC platform is the familiarity of using the familiar "Power of Windows". Doesn't this issue run counter to that claim?

If anyone from M$ bothered to read reviews, articles, discussion boards, etc. they would see that an OVERWHELMING majority wants the "X" to be a close button. Sometimes I really think M$ does things just out of spite... "We know you want it, we can give it to you, but we're not going to."

This is my #1 issue with the PPC OS. I shouldn't have to use a 3rd party program to perform such a basic function.

[kingraf01]

Seeing as I have thememaster set to rotate every half hour, I like to close all other open files right away. I use my media player when I workout, so any word files I'm working on, appointments, or note files I have open I like to close, for maximum performance. Thank goodness for the big red X in Facelift's Taskswitcher, that makes this easy.

Raf- :robot:
Jornada 548 Faithful

[KH]

I'm with the Wisbar crowd. I use programs that may or may not behave cleanly, and their memory usage is opaque in any case. Occasionally I even have to soft reset to really get my performance back.

I didn't know that Microsoft withheld logo from apps with a clean 'Exit'. I don't tend to bash Microsoft (except for their Reader encryption approach) but I will on THIS point. When I purchase an application that has an Exit offering, I mentally commend the developer. I understand many of Microsoft's logo requirements, but this one seems unusually heavy handed. I will be annoyed if I discover that upgrades to familiar applications have traded the 'Exit' for a logo!

[Vincent M Ferrari]

I voted "I close them when I see fit" only because the choice that fits best wasn't there: I close all apps at all times religiously.

I bought and installed pocketplus just for that purpose. The other stuff was nice, but turning the X into a close button was a much needed feature. I also use the Dell Switcher to switch between apps on the rare occasion I don't close it, but then almost immediately close the app.

You could say I'm OCD that way :lol:

[Crystal Eitle]

WisBar is one of the first programs I installed on my Pocket PC. When I close programs, I like them to be closed.

2. The other difference is that Pocketpc are not meant to be mini computers. Microsoft views them as appliances and wants the consumer's interaction with them to be as smooth and simple as you would expect from a cell phone or a cd player.
It's too bad Microsoft thinks this way; I definitely think of my Pocket PC as a small computer. Perhaps because it seems more powerful than my last "real" computer; I had a laptop with a Pentium 1 chip running Windows 95. :pukeface:

[Ivan]

I always close all applications after using them. I do not have any third-party task managers installed, and always use the Ctrl-Q shortcut on the virtual keyboard for this. It takes a little getting used to but after a while it's just as fast as using a third party app. Although not all of the applications can be closed this way... case in point ActiveStink.

[Chris Spera]

(haven't read the entire thread yet...)

Read my lips: WisBar by Pelmarinc.com (http://www.pelmarinc.com/html/pocket_pc.htm)

This is a must have utility for all of my Pocket PC's. I won't run without it.
The problem that I see with letting Pocket PC manage RAM is my 5455. It has a serious memory management/ leak problem. (hopefully it will be resolved by the new ROM update, but you never know...

Kind Regards,


Christopher Spera

[sirtin]

I don't care how much MSFT swears that they can handle the memory, I don't even care if they were right! It's my PocketPC darn it and I want to control when it does things. I use WisBar to close my apps when I am done with them...Microsoft Logo Certification be damned!!!

Not that I have a strong opinion or anything... :)

[dubStylee]

Microsoft is so much in favor of this method, they withhold their logo certification from any application that includes an "Exit" command anywhere within the menu structure..

I use Wisbar with the X set to work however I choose - minimize on tap and close on tap-hold. A key word in that sentence, a word that ms would like to take out of the dictionary on multiple levels, is CHOOSE. Their entire concept of "we know better than you what you want to do" is the Bob-ilization (to borrow from the thread on loser ms ventures) of computing. Hey dummy, let the talking paper clip decide for you. I do see their point that a PDA is not a desktop and therefore I have the default behaviour set to minimize and to actually close something takes an extra bit of decision on my part. My way favors minimizing, their way demands it.

Their way assumes that conserving memory is the only reason one would ever want to close something. Well, personally, I like to see on the taskbar what I have open so I remember what things I am in the middle of doing and want to continue. It's called a TASK list because it shows the tasks I am engaged in. The ms way defines a task as something the computer does. I define a task as something *I* am doing.

Here's a tech question on this topic - how often is auto-saving done in most tasks? If I minimize without saving and the PDA crashes, is my new data gone?

[rburleyson]

I suppose it is some kind of excessive compulsive habit but I like to keep things "clean". If I think I probably have lots of apps running I will more often do a soft reset just to clean it up quickly. Most of the apps I use don't take all that long to open the first time. BTY - First time caller :D

[thomas1973]

It more of a quirk than a problem.
I certainly don't agree with you on that one :twisted: ! Before I got Wisbar, and later Icbar, my iPaq 3850 was hopeless! After opening and closing (or so I thought :? ) a couple of programs, my iPaq slowed down considerably.

When I got my iPaq 1915, the first thing to get installed was Icbar and TauBetaPi Advanced Explorer (the freeware edition). These are the two biggest flaws of MS PPC OS - no proper task manager, and no proper file manager. After I've installed these two programes, I once again feel in control of my PPC.

I love Icbars tap for minimize and tap&hold for closing, and that I'm able to see which programs are running, so I know if anything needs to be closed down or not. It's also important to have a 'close all' menu available before you start demanding programs.

All these features lacking is definitively not just a quirk! It's a pain in the you-know-what, and it is a big problem for making the PPC run smoothly. I suppose it's a good idea and all, to let the OS take care of this in the background, but I hate it when they (MS) feel the need to take the possibility/option to control it myself away from me!

The least MS could do was to certify programs that have 'exit' in their 'file' menu!


2. It's my device. If I want to close it, I should be able to.
Couldn't agree more! :D


Thomas.

[TomB]

Heov was right - MS's vision would have been acceptable if it ever worked. Anyone who uses a processor intense program like PTV or MVP knows that the MS solution is a joke. If you don't manually clear all other programs your performance will tank.

Speaking about memory management, ever try to transfer a large file into RAM? You have to continually drag the memory bar to storage or the file will never transfer. You would think a billion dollar company like MS would either get something like this right or certify "close" buttons.

[thomas1973]

I understand many of Microsoft's logo requirements, but this one seems unusually heavy handed. I will be annoyed if I discover that upgrades to familiar applications have traded the 'Exit' for a logo!
It's already happening :( :evil:

Thomas.

[Jason Lee]

I used WISBar with ppc 2000 but stopped when I upgraded to ppc 2002. I liked the functionality of the new start bar.
Then i stumbled appon the worlds best and little known program called Magic Button (http://www.trancreative.com/Product.aspx?id=7).

Imho this is the best thing ever. It makes the close button close or minimize and doesn't change the start bar at all until you tap and hold where the (X) button is. Then you get a nice desktop win start bar with all the current runnign app icons there. The new version has to option to not hide the clock when it this mode. So now I leave it in this mode all the time and can with a tap switch back to the standard bar when I need to acces the notifications. You can also not turn on "sticky bar" which will bring up the new bar when you tap and hold and as soon as you tap something on the new bar it turns back to the standard one.

Oh, the new version has much better icons than in the screen shot on the site and it also has a battery meter that displays by the (X).

[disconnected]

I chose "I manage my Pocket PC just like my desktop and close apps as I see fit."

I know some apps slow things down, and it's too much trouble to remember which ones, so I close most apps that I don't plan to go back to in a few minutes.

I haven't used dashboard/wisbar since upgrading to an iPAQ 3975, but I still have itask mapped to one button and Zapit to another.

[leximaea]

Personally, I use dell's switcher bar to Exit all Programs routinely... especially ActiveStync. If I don't exit AS before connecting, I inevitably get an error.

Lately, when connecting, my Axim is soft-resetting itself! Yikes.

[lipinski77]

I never like to leave apps up and running. I find my pocket pc more stable when there are less apps running.

Spb pocket plus is my current working solution to this lack of a feature in ppc2002. :evil:

[R K]

I regularly close programs on my PPC like my desktop. One thing that's slightly annoying about Microsoft's close idea is the memory management instability. Like a lot of people, I like to take control of my PPC.
One way I do this is to manage how much free storage memory is available to me. The Microsoft method is flawed since I'll set the memory bar to give 20MB to program memory, and the OS will continually move this bar in favor of more program memory unless I start closing apps.
It's pretty annoying.

[fireflyrsmr]

Heov was right - MS's vision would have been acceptable if it ever worked.

i get performance problems if i don't exit programs. by doing that they train me close.

[danmanmayer]

I assume all the others that agree with me and close apps as they see fit also run across insane amounts of slow down and stalling when very much is open. Even my Mp3's skip if there is much open. Also if your watching a movie EVERYthing must be closed. I mean everything. So i would love to have a minimize (the current ppc x) and a close on every app. So microsoft listen to the poll we want to close stuff.

[Busdriver]

I want to be able to close the program. For all the reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread. I use Gigabar, BTW.

Also, slightly off topic, but I disagree strongly with the poster who said a PPC is not a small computer, but rather simply a PDA. If that was the case I would have bought a Palm!

[Kaber]

I think the PPCT community is the cream of the crop when it comes to Pocket PC users. Among us we have people who depend every day on their PDAs not just for PIM purposes, but for lots of different and varied activities. We communicate our failures and successes with each other and keep each other up to date on the latest news and rumors pertaining to this particular passion.

I'm not saying that a small poll like this can be indicitive of the norm, but if MS chooses to ignore us its their own folly.

You just don't hook us on the Windows GUI for years and years and then suddenly change the way everything works. Keep things familiar. We know where the exit button should be. We know there should be a File/Close option in the menu. We like to minimize some windows, and close others. What are you trying to do to us?

And to make it part of certification is just asinine. :evil:

[cmchavez]

vBar all the way. I hate having apps run more slowly than they have to. I just don't like the fact that M$ didn't bake this feature into the PPC OS and instead, we have to add it via separate apps. :?:

[dma1965]

This is a shining example of Microsoft's rampant arrogance! They refuse to certify apps that allow you to exit. What the $%*& is that all about! That would be akin to Underwriter Laboratories refusing to give a UL listing to electronic devices that have an off switch. There are MANY applications that do not save data if the applcation is not closed, and POQuick will actually corrupt the money database if the device is reset without the application being closed. Ewallet will not sync if it is open on my Pocket PC when I sync. How often do you turn on your Pocket PC and try to open an application, only to get the dreaded spinning color wheel, with only a soft reset offering salvation? With me it is far more often than I care for. This is just mind boggling. The smart minimize function just plain sucks! Is this some sort of brilliant idea Balmer or Gates envisioned gone completley awry? Chances are that at least one intelligent developer has tried to change this, only to be squashed by the Microsoft upper level Nazis. I am sorry if I seem irritated, but WE are the power users, WE are what fuels the develooment, WE are the ones who pay a premium to be Guinea pigs, and WE WANT A CLOSE BUTTON, so listen up you short sighted and cocky Microsoft decision makers, your way of doing this sucks! :evil:

[axe]

When I first got my iPaq 3630, it had ppc2000 on it and I closed apps through the task manager fairly easily and often. It took a lot of time to get used to leaving apps open, not that I wanted to...
When I upgraded to ppc2002, MS went even further and changed the way apps closed to the point where it was a real hassle to close them...

Now I have "Pocket Plus" and life is good again! When I hit the "X" to previous hide the app, Pocket Plus Closes the app for me. :clap: If I really only want to minimize or hide the app, I simply have to tap & hold until the otions window comes up and Minimize is displayed. This app is the FIRST one I put back on my machine when I have to update it. I couldn't imagine going back to minimizing things all the time. In fact it bothers me to always have the ActiveSync app running in my Task Manager when I am away from my computer... Why leave it running when there is no reason for it? It's not like it starts any slower after a soft reset and it has to start the whole app up rather than just run it from scratch.

So my vote, without a doubt, is "I want control over my tasks" - totally and completely - and I think MS really blundered without at least giving the ability to do so, even if some choose not to.

I'm a control freak Geek, and I'll admit it!! 0X
AXE

[T-Will]

I voted for "I occasionally close applications with a task manager, but not very often." I use Wisbar, which works perfectly for me, and usually leave applications open unless it's a big app or if I'm going to play a memory hog game.

I'm really surprised at how many people mamage their Pocket PC like their PC.

[Kaber]

To be perfectly honest, I bought a Pocket PC over a Palm because it was LIKE WINDOWS! I know the file system. I know how to edit the registry. I can hook it up to my home LAN over wifi like a laptop. I know where my internet cache is. All this without having ever using Help, because it is so familiar to how I already use software.

Palm didn't anticipate that we'd want to use PDA devices as "Pocket PCs". Microsoft did. Don't make them less like PCs, please.

[whydidnt]

I use BatteryPack to close apps whenever I'm done using them....with the exception of Pocket Informant and the calculator, two apps I frequently use and want available quickly.

I notice a significant slow down on my PPC if I allow the PPC to try and manage memory. Battery Pack works great for this, but it is still odd that MS refuses to consider that users may want to have more control over what is running and what isn't.

[surur]

Speaking as a ICbar user, I also close all my apps regularly, and very much out of habit.

This is actually counterproductive to me, as I automatically close PocketInformant, which often takes 10-20 seconds to open up from scratch.

I have however maxed out my pc with 512Mb ram (which is the maximum the MB would take) and regularly run with 150 Mb free. Being very much irked by long start-up times in IE and OE, I wish there was a way to "smart minimise" things on a desktop without them cluttering up the task bar. Something like ICbar would be perfect, where e.g a single click would smart minimise, and a double click would close completely. Ill be looking round for a window manager which has this feature.

I guess the fact that I hang out at a PPC web site indicates which device and way of working I prefer more :)

Surur

[pjtrader]

Okay Ed, you asked for reasons? Here's probably the most common:

1) Old habits die hard.
2) I'm always afraid something will get corrupted if I don't close it myself and the PPC hangs.
3) Because I have a perception that the PPC takes too long to manage my memory, close an "old" app, and open my new one. (And it appears I'm not the only one who figured that one out!)
4) Some apps don't run smoothly when others are still open. This "feature" is one MS has brought along from its desktop version just fine. LOL

Cheers,
Pam

[Mexico]

...Microsoft is so much in favor of this method, they withhold their logo certification from any application that includes an "Exit" command anywhere within the menu structure...

Microsoft Plus! Media Edition's Sync 'n Go for Pocket PC HAS an "Exit" command. Do you think they're finally starting to get it?

Why not let us choose if we want to close the friggin' application? Are we that dumb or what? :? If we were, we'd be using Palms... No, seriously, let us decide for ourselves!!! :evil:

[bjornkeizers]

1. As long as there is enough memory on hand, why not keep the program active. By keeping it in ram, it will be available so much quicker if the user goes back to it.


Space is at a premium. Especially on a 32 or 64 mb device, which most of us have. Programs are becoming larger and more demanding on memory, especially things like MS reader, quake, media player.. If I don't close my other stuff, which I only need on rare occasions, I can't run quake or use my reader. [at least not for very long, I run out of memory and it crashes]


2. The other difference is that Pocketpc are not meant to be mini computers.


Uh? What? Run that by me again. It's called a POCKET PC, right?

Pocket as in portable, small, able to be carried around in ones pocket
PC as in personal computer.

How is this *NOT* a mini computer? If it looks like one, acts like one, performs like one, then it must definately be, by definition, one. Or am I missing something here?


Microsoft views them as appliances and wants the consumer's interaction with them to be as smooth and simple as you would expect from a cell phone or a cd player.


How stupid do they think I am? On a PC, I have three buttons: Minimize, Maximize and close. Most people seem to manage just fine, unless theyve been dropped on their head one too many times. I can handle an extra button! Just give me the current one and call it minimize, then add a big red X and call it close. How difficult is that??

[quote]
It more of a quirk than a problem.
[/quote

Look at the poll. **It's a problem**

[daeglan]

I hate the fact that MS doesnt let you close an app... since when are they in charge of what i want to close... :evil: just let me close apps when i am done if i choose to.

[Kaber]

Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, MS should just make the "smart" minimize button offer a close/exit function via tap and hold.

Then we would all be much happier and the task managers we are using would still work... because let's face it, we are using them for more than just a close button now and are not likely to uninstall them just because MS makes the change.

I don't see myself getting rid of gigabar any time soon.

[Sven Johannsen]

Well, from the ratios on the poll atr this point, it seems the vaste majority of folks that visit this site don't subscribe to the MS vision. Whether that is due to not being able to accept a new paradigm in memory/task handling, or real, or imagined dissatisfaction with the implementation of the vision, must be gleaned from the comments.

I think I am just used to putting my dirty clothes in the hamper, throwing out the cereal box when I empty it, hanging up my wet towels, and closing my apps when I am done with them.

I have been too preoccupied to close apps on occasion and find numerous background/dormant apps running, with typically no severe performance degradation. That is understandably application dependent to some degree. I haven't done any controlled investigation of what doesn't run worth a hoot if a lot of other stuff is open, but empirically, the problem, in my experience, isn't all that great. I don't do much wild stuff though. I am not prone to having a video playing in MP, while running Everquest and having Xmap calculate a cross-country route. :) My dormant apps are pretty much...dormant.

On general principle I don't like MS forcing their vision to the point of denying 'certification' to developers that provide an Exit option, especially when faced with consumer votes, such as this poll, and the fact that most OEMs provide some form of app management, and the aftermarket app management genre is very healthy. When they move this concept to the desktop, I for one, will have a hot-key sequence to Windows Task Manager.

[Gerard]

Mentally
Incompetent
Coders
Rampantly
Obliterating
Sensible
Friggin'
Things.... okay, so I'm not feeling very creative today. Better luck next time. ;)
I've used GigaBar to close things since fall of 2000, on my old E-115. For stuff that's more stubborn, I sometimes use ZapIt!, which lives in the Start Menu for such occassions. While using a PPC on a Stowaway (I have one each for my Casio and iPAQ) I use the Ctrl+Q mostly, and PHM's AltTab program with a 1/10th second delay set in the registry, for swapping between the two top-most apps.
I often uninstall software I test partially on the basis of whether or not there's an easy way to close. Stuff that is sticky, fighting any close attempts, had better have a darn good set of features, or it's gone for that reason alone.
Recently, Conduit's Software has been trying to comply with Microsoft's logo certification nonsense. Hence Pocket Artist, for one, has lost the Exit command in the most recent version for PPC 2002, 2.6. The PPC 2000 version still has it, under Menu > Image > Exit. That last is just missing in my iPAQ version, but works great with the same version in my Casio EG-800. So apparently Microsoft doesn't mind it being left in for legacy devices, or at least that's the implication. Jason Patterson is quite adept with consistency, so I scarcely think this is an accidental oversight. ZapIt! works though. So do Ctl+Q on an SIP keyboard, and Ctrl+Q with the Stowaway. But GigaBar, because of "improper close command implementation" according to Jason, takes either 2 or 3 taps on the X to get it closed. Problem is, I usually use PA without a keyboard, so GigaBar is fastest. I just have to remember now to use Start > ZapIt!, or tap that one extra time if the program is being stubborn.
On one hand, I hope for Conduits' sake that they get certification. They deserve it. Most of their software is dynamite stuff, offering deep functionality for the serious user.
(Just an aside; that comment on the PPC being a peripheral is so old - I use mine as main computing devices, and my notebook PC as my PPC peripheral. It's all a matter of what you want from the device, not at all about what it can do).
Now, as to Microsoft's own consistency on the Close option;
From the H/PC PlusPack, ~ PocketPaint runs quite well on a PPC, and has an Exit listed in the menus.
~ WMP Tech Preview Beta version 2 is still my main video and streaming audio app in PPC 2000, and it does a great job, often better than WMP in PPC 2002. Microsoft product; Exit is never more than two taps away, right there in the File menu.
~ Microsoft Research China's Portrait 2.1, and all previous versions of this video/audio/VoIP/text chat app have an Exit listed, and working, in the File menu.
Then there are the 'power apps', where almost universally actual users hold them up among the best of the best:
~ Textmaker: Exit available
~ Photogenics: Exit available
~ Pocket TV: Exit available
~ PQV: Exit available
~ CityTime: Exit available
~ Resco Explorer 2003: Exit available
~ Acrobat Reader for PPC: Exit available
~ KSE TrueFax: Exit available
~ all FieldSoftware printing apps: Exit available
The list could go on a lot longer. These programs are selling rather well, with many users talking about most of them in the popular discussion forums. They don't need Microsoft's rubber stamp of idiocy, apparently, to make money and curry favour with users. It is rather a difficult stretch of the imagination to think of a new user becoming 'confused' or in any way stressed by the presence of an 'Exit' button. It's about as intuitive as a thing gets. And as for ridiculous arguments regarding losing data when closing without saving; that's crap. Most of these programs will pop up a 'Save before closing?' warning, with Yes, No, and Cancel options. PQV is a Notable exception, but then it's not intended as a paint program. Modifications are savable, but it's nice to be able to adjust brightness, for instance, without having always to see another warning when closing an image. It's a 'viewer', as the name's 'V' suggests.
Microsoft is riddled with arrogance. I'm a fairly arrogant s.o.b. myself, so I recognise it when I see it. They decided long ago that the 'smartass minimize' button was a good idea, that it would showcase their marvelous automated memory management system, or 'dynamic memory allocation', or whatever euphemism they are using. But that system does not work. Ever try to open a LIT format ebook in Reader, one with a few pictures in it, without closing several other things first? Ever lost a document or a webpage becuase the Microsoft memory management nonsense decided to close all background programs without saving, to make way for the incredibly fast-leaking Reader? I have. It's only happened to me twice, that one, as I have almost entirely stopped using Reader since the last time. I lost over an hour of work thanks to spending 6 minutes reading the July issue of Pocket PC Magazine. I was just skimming through the free copy, after signing up with their forums, and suddenly GigaBar showed one after another of the documents I had open for editing in just a few seconds. Checking memory status, I found that I had less than 2MB of total free memory, when at least 43MB were actually supposed to be free. That's supposed to encourage me to trust Microsoft's idea of 'management'??? Man, I'm glad I don't work for Microsoft. Things must get bloody around there when one of the upper level boys needs to 'leak'.
The short answer? Replace it with a true 'close' button, if you ever want to be taken seriously by the vast majority of users. Heck, even relatively pathetic old Palm-based PDAs just close things when the user exits. Of course, with Palm that's a bad thing, making true multi-tasking a matter for third-party software to enable. Only with the use of a taskbar replacement, or something like iTask/GigaTask, is it possible for a user to have proper control. As Microsoft sees it, we're idiots, and they know what we really want... which apparently isn't what we think we really want. Good grief.

[rmasinag]

I'm a poor schmoe with my IPAQ 3135 so I only have about 6 megs to play with :cry: So if I have More than 3 apps(usully PIM, Word, WMP)things start to slow down, even when I have the sleeve (only when listening to music), it doesn' t help much. Amen for 1940! She will save me from my memory pains! :mrgreen:

[roberto_torres]

Why not let us choose if we want to close the friggin' application? Are we that dumb or what? :? If we were, we'd be using Palms...

If that's true then palm users are smarter, they can close their app. 8O [/quote]

[Kaber]

~ Resco Explorer 2003: Exit available

Not anymore. In the latest download there is no File/Exit anymore. I keep hitting the damn About page because of the change. I have to close it with Gigabar now.

[quidproquo]

I chose the option that I close the apps as I need to with a task manager
called PocketNAV. Pretty nice since its a freebie. Go to this link to get it.

http://www.pilotzone.com/pocket/preview/145763.html

I feel as others have commented here as well...leave the heavily used apps open as they load quicker and close other minimal usage programs to free up memory.

Makes for a smoother ride..... 8)

[Tim Allen]

Like pretty much everyone else I like to close my apps. But it's not so much for performance, as to be honest I haven't noticed too much of a drain when many apps are open.

For me it's more of to do with worrying that all these running apps have open files or haven't fully saved them yet, and therefore they may get corrupted or not sync'd/backed up. Maybe I'm just paranoid but I'm quite obsessive about not leaving files open, and until the app is closed I can't really relax.

[tonyv]

The Pocket PC OS is unusable without Wisbar and "Program Menu", in my opinion. I can't believe Microsoft hasn't fixed this yet -- Microsoft is usually quicky to copy a good idea. Someone on the PocketPC team must be very arrogant, to ignore the users for so many iterations of the operating system.

[Sven Johannsen]

Why not let us choose if we want to close the friggin' application? Are we that dumb or what? :? If we were, we'd be using Palms...

If that's true then palm users are smarter, they can close their app. 8O [/quote]

They don't have a choice. They can't run more than one at a time in the first place. :wink:

[Gerard]

Dang, you're right, Resco Explorer 4.20 has no Exit button any more. That's pathetic. Well, I'll have to see if they've improved the ZIP utility, which hasn't been stable since it was a standalone, in the version I bought originally. Handling anything large on a card, without having at least an equal amount of free memory in that card, is asking for a memory error in v4.10.
This ploy with the Exit being knocked off is like a sort of lame-assed gangsterism, Microsoft forcing developers to do this silly thing, just to 'prove' their useless memory management works. If nothing had a close button, then users wouldn't know the difference, and MS could get away with it among all but the more advanced users who use third party stuff to close apps. The average schmuck would just be left with the impression that a PPC is supposed to take 20 seconds to open Contacts, or supposed to lock up every other day because there's no memory left.

[scargill]

Suprisingly I spend £300 on a PocketPC and the main thing I do is read ebooks! OK, so it will come in useful at uni, but i usually definitly spend an hour a day or more reading an ebook, along with train journies....anyway ebooks slow down my PPC loads, so my saving grace is "Close all Inactive" on Pocket Plus!
Usually though when I am going from one task to a next then I will "Close All" before I continue.

[Kaber]

Rest assured there will always be an accessible h/w soft reset button... we all know how much that button gets used.

[mcsouth]

Seems to me to be an overwhelming majority - I, like many others, use PocketNav to allow me to instantly view the apps that I have open, and close them down quickly when my unit starts slowing down. Considering the amount of free memory that my unit (Jornada 567) has due to majority of my apps being installed to CF card, I would think that the PPC would do a better job of memory handling - it's not like my original iPaq, where I was constantly deleting apps to maintain enough memory to run apps.

.......you certainly don't forget where the soft reset button is.....it seems to like being used every few weeks to bring the stability back......

[gorkon280]

Microsoft Plus! Media Edition's Sync 'n Go for Pocket PC HAS an "Exit" command. Do you think they're finally starting to get it?

Why not let us choose if we want to close the friggin' application? Are we that dumb or what? :? If we were, we'd be using Palms... No, seriously, let us decide for ourselves!!! :evil:

Yes it does. I was going to post this, but thanks for doing it for me! ;) Anyway, the app still kind of sucks and your also tied to the desktop for downloading new web content even though it came out after WiFi ppc's were available. Which means unless I can install the Digital Media stuff on my work's laptop also, I can't get new news clips to watch. Never mind that they have NEVER added any new providers yet. Where's Foxnews? Just NBC News? How about others as well? Does anyone else have a similar app? The exit menu item is nice, but I usually don't use it. I forget which taskmanager I use at the moment, but I do use one. Not WISbar or Icbar. Neityher of those work well with the connection icon for WiFi. I close all apps with impunity. I once tried not to (disable my taskman) and by lunch it was so slow I had to kill them. And this is only referring to it every 15-30 minutes and reading avantgo on the bus ride in. Plus friggin Toshiba has only released one bug fix image and it has tons of bugs I have to live with. I have a feeling that once I find that CompUSA has a e755 or something else equal to the flexability I have with my e740, I will TAP it.

[Ed Hansberry]

~ Resco Explorer 2003: Exit available
you haven't downloaded the latest I see...

[Gerard]

Ed; You haven't read my reply 6 posts ago, I see... ;) Yes, I've now installed 4.20, and it's depressing to see this change.

[Marc Zimmermann]

I don't close apps, my selection of applications seems to work well with the Pocket PC's app management. Only once in a week or two I need to do a soft reset because the device is getting somewhat sluggish.

Basically, I prefer the soft reset method because it will autmatically fix memory leaks and close all apps in one go.

[DVD]

On a related inexplicable departure from the desktop windoze UI: why do we not have the ability to decide whether to keep (Apply / Save) or discard (Cancel) changes to a document or (perhaps even more important) a settings sheet? :evil:

Suffering from arthritis in my hands, sometimes I accidentally launch an out-of-control tap at a settings sheet, and I have no idea what I might have changed. On a PC I'd just Cancel. On a PPC I have to re-think the entire settings sheet, and hope I haven't stuffed something up.

[jaybo_nomad]

Here's technical information regarding why the close button is necessary. Apparently, few applications currently include the necessary logic to enable the OS to correctly manage memory. From: http://smartphone.modaco.com/viewtopic.php?p=223576#223576

"Some popular applications, like PocketMVP, are not programmed properly for WinCE, and they don't call SHCloseApps when malloc fails. Basically they won't be able to ask the OS to hibernate or terminate some inactive apps when memory is not immediately available. Hopefully the developers of those applications will correct the problems so that they interact properly with the OS and with other applications. Basically all memory allocation calls must be included in a wrapper that looks like:

void *wrapper_malloc(unsigned int size)
{
void *memory;

memory = malloc(size);
if (memory) {
return memory;
}
SHCloseApps(size);

return malloc(size);
}

Of course the "No Exit" philosophy of MS would work much better if MS had included the calls to SHCloseApps within all their memory allocation routines but unfortunately I think that's not the case (yet). So it is left to the responsability of each apps to call SHCloseApps. The apps that don't call SHCloseApps may not be able to get the memory they need.

Correct memory allocation using SHCloseApps is a requirement that is missing from the logo-requirements of Pocket PC and Smartphone. The logo-requirements only contains one half on the equation (i.e. respond to WM_HIBERNATE). It is not sufficient! "

Also, see:

http://communities.microsoft.com/Newsgroups/default.asp?newsgroup=microsoft.public.smartphone.developer

Search May 25, 2003, "SHCloseApps"

[Gerard]

Which translated roughly into non-developerese, becomes: Microsoft's Pocket PC development team is full of beans.

[WillyG]

LOL :D , i must really laugh when i see the result of this poll. And I hope the PPC gang at Microsoft reads PPCT. Maby they get a bright idea ;)

[Tracy Daubenspeck]

One of the first things that I install on my PPCs is Gigabar. It allows me to see what apps are running and to close the ones I choose. This makes for a more responsive device and fewer lockups.

[TopDog]

I use the Icbar and love the "tap'n'hold to close"-funktion. This is because is don't want to close apps like Inbox, MSN and Calendar, but want to close apps like MS Reader and media player.

[Jonathon Watkins]

I bought and installed pocketplus just for that purpose. The other stuff was nice, but turning the X into a close button was a much needed feature.

Same here. Although I find the programs displaying on the today screen to be very usefull as well. :)

[QYV]

So here's a question: I have a 64MB Axim and (unlike many folks here) use just about nothing except the apps in ROM, which means I have tons of free RAM at all times. I think the most memory I've ever had in use at one time still left at least 25MB free. Perhaps this is so obvious I shouldn't ask it, but as long as I have some free RAM even at the most heavy usage of my Axim, I should never see any slowdown, right? Because the memory management of the PPC OS shouldn't even kick in?

Currently I use WisBar to kill programs all the time just because I like the thought of not having unecessary RAM being used, but given that it's probably faster and a little easier on battery life to leave apps open if I might be relaunching them later, I'm considering just doing one "Close All" each night and otherwise leaving everything open if there's no perf issues.

[ctmagnus]

Microsoft is so much in favor of this method, they withhold their logo certification from any application that includes an "Exit" command anywhere within the menu structure.

From the PocketInformant web site (http://www.pocketinformant.com/):

What's New


•Pocket Informant 4.01 receives Pocket PC 2002 Certification

I hope that doesn't mean that 4.1 won't include the hammer button -> exit function that 4.01 has.

Oh, and I'm with the majority of people here, except I use GigaTask (http://www.gigatask.com/) to exit out of things no longer necessary.

Update:

the worlds best and little known program called Magic Button (http://www.trancreative.com/Product.aspx?id=7).

Imho this is the best thing ever.

I concur! I now use Magic Button as my app closer and have relegated Gigatask to the usual iTask functions (with some nifty transparency, of course. :robot: )

[thomas1973]

On a related inexplicable departure from the desktop windoze UI: why do we not have the ability to decide whether to keep (Apply / Save) or discard (Cancel) changes to a document or (perhaps even more important) a settings sheet? :evil:
I hear you! It's really hopeless, if I make some changes to a Word doc, and I regret them, I have no choice but to save as is, or try to remember how it was before I applied the changes :evil: . What's up with that! I guess that could be a whole other thread, this is just blowing steam over the lack of 'close app' feature! :lol: What really gets me, though, is that these are features any third party developer will apply (if not discouraged by MS :evil: ), and they are features that are easy to implement. Why on earth haven't they done so????

Thomas.

[Kati Compton]

I hear you! It's really hopeless, if I make some changes to a Word doc, and I regret them, I have no choice but to save as is, or try to remember how it was before I applied the changes :evil:
That's bitten me too. I think next time it happens, I'll try a soft-reset as a cancel and see if that works...

[Bruno Figueiredo]

I hear you! It's really hopeless, if I make some changes to a Word doc, and I regret them, I have no choice but to save as is, or try to remember how it was before I applied the changes :evil:

You can always go to Tools > Save Document As... and save it with another name. :mrgreen:

[thomas1973]

I hear you! It's really hopeless, if I make some changes to a Word doc, and I regret them, I have no choice but to save as is, or try to remember how it was before I applied the changes :evil:

You can always go to Tools > Save Document As... and save it with another name. :mrgreen:
Ahh, Or maybe even 'Revert to saved' :D How come I've never seen that one before :roll: Thanks!

Thomas.

[Ken Mattern]

I too selected "I manage my Pocket PC just like my desktop and close apps as I see fit."

My apps will never get the logo certification as I have an app.end statement in every one. Of course I'm old fashioned, I still use the classic Windows interface on my XP Professional box. :D

[ux4484]

I still use the classic Windows interface on my XP Professional box. :D

you're not the only one.......sounds like a new poll ;)

[wbuch]

I chose "I manage my PPC like my desktop"

The main reason I suppose is because I use Wisbar, and don't really like seeing the extra icons for programs up there, especially when I'm done using them (I also like seeing my Wisbar background unobstructed).

[Kati Compton]

I still use the classic Windows interface on my XP Professional box. :D
you're not the only one.......sounds like a new poll ;)
I did for a long time. Now I use the XP "theme", but still the classic interface for the start menu. I don't like the OS guessing what I want to do. ;)

[redifrogger]

I'm with vincenzosi - I religiously close all apps when done with them. I just hate to see my app running in the background when I may not use it again for awhile, whether 10 minutes or 10 days. I love Journal Bar and they now have a task manager that I use. Good move by Omega One.

[Kaber]

I still use the classic Windows interface on my XP Professional box. :D

you're not the only one.......sounds like a new poll ;)

Me too.

[Ed Hansberry]

I am going to close this thread down - please continue discussions on the followup located at http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,13460

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. :way to go: