Ritath's Legacy (Was "Rant for any like minded folks")

[Rirath]

Well, just a small rant for any like minded folks still surfing around out there. If you don't like me or my usual supposed "attitude", you'll probably not want to bother reading this.

My postings have nearly dropped to nothing, mainly because of the way things are going around here. The front page these days... come on. Do I even need to say it? How many front page posts has there been in the past week alone complaining about ActiveSync or because some random thing is broke on someone's computer?

Heck, how many posts has there been in the past month or two complaining about pocket pcs in general? This is broke, that doesn't work right, this sucks, this isn't how it should be done, this person at that website says this he thinks this is lame. PPCT is becoming the most anti-pocket pc website I know. Now I'm sure you'll have reason and reason to justify this, all of which you'll be very convinced of. Yeah, and Fox News is Fair and Balanced. :twisted: (Hey, I like Fox! :)) Some folks will know what I'm talking about.

Real, honest news has bottomed out. We need actual fact finding and reporting, especially on non smartphone and other just barely ppc related info. Reviews of products that's been out for a month to a year do not count. And let people to post their opinion of the product! Encourage it! We've seen where that gets ya many times over.

My suggestions to you guys at pocket pc thoughts are simple. Stop reviewing software released over two weeks ago. Instead, pick up new products. Learn to deal wth angry companies, and rock the boat a bit. Don't give us big front page news about new products you think are great, with handango links, when there are much better and free alternatives that everyone knows about. Up your software coverage BIG time, and make sure the products are actually worth talking about. Do it for the user, not for the companies.

I'd highly suggest stop ranting about the newest technology you hate, and stop ranting because you broke something else on your computer and still can't fix it. So what if the tech support guy was mean? If you MUST rant about these things, do it in the forum like everyone else and use it to build the community. (Just don't treat the responces as right or wrong, correct or incorrect.) At any rate, Try and make the front page posts count. Something worthy of 25,000 users a day seeing.

Please, stop with the no whining. Stop with the jumping down people's throats that don't dis a product just because you don't like it, and stop getting ticked off because a person doesn't like a product you like. If you don't want people to comment, simply turn off the ability. There should be no incorrect response in a forum, even if you happen to be one of only two people of 500 that disagrees. So long as you post your response intelligently and not "O yeh wel1 u suxxors!!!", it shouldn't matter one bit.

I've said it a hundred times before, this is a community site now. It's not a personal homepage, it's not a blog. If you want it to be one again, then do it! Make some simple changes so that commenting is very limited or gone. Problem solved.

As for the forums, I think the floppy thread is proof positive just how little I agree with the mentality of the users these days.
(And I've said it a hundred times before, we need faqs.)

Just a few suggestions I think would honestly help the site.
Feel free to take it or leave it.

[JackTheTripper]

Rirath, just a suggestion but.... you know you don't have to click on the thread if the title reads "I hate xxxxxx" or "xxxxxx is broken AGAIN! :mad"

If you want to further the PPC movement help some of us out. I see quite a few threads with great questions go unanswered. Help those people out and ignore the negative threads.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9898

[Rirath]

Rirath, just a suggestion but.... you know you don't have to click on the thread if the title reads "I hate xxxxxx" or "xxxxxx is broken AGAIN! :mad"

To use this argument, even though inaccurate to the above rant: The same can be said about you clicking and replying on this thread. You didn't have to, and could have ignored it. Not a very satisfying response, is it? But that's not the point... this wasn't about the forums...

If you want to further the PPC movement help some of us out. I see quite a few threads with great questions go unanswered. Help those people out and ignore the negative threads.

I'm speaking mainly of the front page, not the forums. Heck, I even say take it to the forums.
And believe me, I do my fair share of helping.

[JackTheTripper]

Rirath, just a suggestion but.... you know you don't have to click on the thread if the title reads "I hate xxxxxx" or "xxxxxx is broken AGAIN! :mad"

To use this argument, even though inaccurate to the above rant: The same can be said about you clicking and replying on this thread. You didn't have to, and could have ignored it. Not a very satisfying response, is it? But that's not the point... this wasn't about the forums...


I could have ignored it. I chose not to. Topics which appear to be negative are just part of a discussion board. (See below)


If you want to further the PPC movement help some of us out. I see quite a few threads with great questions go unanswered. Help those people out and ignore the negative threads.

I'm speaking mainly of the front page, not the forums. Heck, I even say take it to the forums.
And believe me, I do my fair share of helping.

Sorry, you're right. You were referring mainly to the front page but...

sometimes venting is necessary or you'll go crazy. And by venting your frustration someone may know something about the subject and be able to help you out.

Maybe we're just a bit jealous that we can't post our frustrations on the front page. ;)

[Janak Parekh]

Real, honest news has bottomed out. We need actual fact finding and reporting, especially on non smartphone and other just barely ppc related info.
OK, this doesn't hold water. Rant and complain all you want - but perhaps you're getting hung up on the complaint threads yourself. I've been posting a ton of news every week, and I'm not the only one.

As to the rest of your rant, perhaps you should introspect a little bit.

--janak

[Ed Hansberry]

Rirath, start your own site with your own content. Then you can run it exactly like you want.

Remember, this site started as a blog and is composed of "daily news, views, rants and raves."

[shawnc]

Well, just a small rant for any like minded folks still surfing around out there.

All two of them.

My postings have nearly dropped to nothing,

Thank goodness for small favors.

Two types of people in this world, those that get involved and work from within to effect change and those who sit on the side and complain. Which do you want to be when you grow up?

This site is great just as it is. Perfect? Of course not, but damn close.

It's not what you say, its how you say it. It's not that you're not helpful, it's just that after recieving your help, one is left to wonder.....was it worth it?

A simple PM would have been a much more appropriate method to deliver your rant. But that would have been truly out of character.

[baker]

The site is excellent. Please continue keeping us technically inept running and up to date. OK, I was only referring to me. :oops:

[Rirath]

sometimes venting is necessary or you'll go crazy. And by venting your frustration someone may know something about the subject and be able to help you out.

Exactly what this thread is, a little venting. :wink: I would hope helpful venting at that, but I know that's hoping for too much. There comes a point where a little venting becomes a LOT of venting though, and I know PPCT has long crossed that line.

OK, this doesn't hold water. Rant and complain all you want - but perhaps you're getting hung up on the complaint threads yourself. I've been posting a ton of news every week, and I'm not the only one.

Our idea of news differs a bit, but as I've told you before in PM... I really believe you've done a good job of breathing new life into this place. Don't start taking things so personally now. :roll:

Rirath, start your own site with your own content. Then you can run it exactly like you want.

Remember, this site started as a blog and is composed of "daily news, views, rants and raves."

Got one, thanks. I know this site started as a blog, but it's time it either decides to move past that or become a blog again. Either or would be fine with me.

Well, just a small rant for any like minded folks still surfing around out there.

All two of them. ... Thank goodness for small favors.

Two types of people in this world, those that get involved and work from within to effect change and those who sit on the side and complain. Which do you want to be when you grow up?

And you're a stunning example, eh? Always have to throw the insults in there, because a discussion just isn't complete without them I guess.

Don't believe the world agrees with you just because no one tells you you're wrong to your face. I've been lucky enough to receive a lot of kind emails, pms, and ims from folk who agree, but just don't feel like getting bashed by you and everyone like you for saying so in public. Heh, and yet it's always me who's the one that's making the newbies feel unwelcome. Strange, that.

It's not what you say, its how you say it. It's not that you're not helpful, it's just that after recieving your help, one is left to wonder.....was it worth it?

If the answer is no one is free to ignore me for the rest of their lives. I'm not losing any sleep over it, and you won't hurt my feelings. :wink:

A simple PM would have been a much more appropriate method to deliver your rant. But that would have been truly out of character.

I'm not going to PM every admin on the site, and I wanted this to be public. It's not about any one person, and don't assume just because someone isn't registered on the forum or doesn't reply that they aren't reading things like this. Unlike many folks I don't need a pat on the back after every speech to know there are people who agree. I knew I'd get bashed for this, heck... that's half the fun. But I meant what I said and I do believe it's true and worth noting. :wink:

[Brad Adrian]

Geez, Rirath, give it a rest. We all know that you hate this site and all of us who try to keep it going. You disguise your misanthropy as "constructive criticism," but your smug comments are getting really old. Either relax and enjoy this site for what it is (especially since it ain't YOUR site) or stay away.

Personally, I'd rather you do the latter.

[MPSmith]

I admit that I'm not always 100% interested in the topics and news posted here. But the PPC world is growing and I'm not interested in all of it. Just parts of it. It doesn't bother me either that most reviews are dated or almost always positive. I don't pay a cent to view this site and I'm thrilled for what I get. But let's don't set aside Rirath's rant so quickly.

It's a legitimate notion IMO that this site has become more negative over the last few years. Rirath calls it "Anti Pocket PC" but I call it a shift to the dark side. These days it seems that what I once considered an inviting and open site has gotten a little negative edge to it.

I wouldn't say this if I didn't care about the site, because I do. Regardless of what I think are some faults, I think there is no equal for PPC content on the web. Period. But my suggestion is that we all try to keep the "fun" in this. One of the best parts of my day is jumping on this site and checking out where this fantastic medium is going.

Just my 2 cents...

[Brad Adrian]

...These days it seems that what I once considered an inviting and open site has gotten a little negative edge to it...
I appreciate your comments and would have to agree with this evaluation. We, too, have noticed that Thoughts (and other similar sites) doesn't always seem as inviting as it once was.

In talking with new readers, we've found out that newbies especially feel intimidated because they sometimes get jumped on by other readers for asking "stupid questions" or for being less than an expert on all things Pocket PC.

The incredible expansion of this site's readership also has something to do with it, I think. As the number of readers grows, the mix of personal tastes and preferences also grows. That all equates to a lot more people willing to express their unique points of view and a lot more people willing to do so in a less-than-positive manner.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, though. This site has attracted its share of disgruntled readers, but even though their posts generate a lot of attention, they still represent a fraction of the total posts. I still believe in my heart of hearts that this is absolutely the BEST Pocket PC-related site in the entire world. No forum that is open to the public can ever be perfect, but I'm still DAMN proud to be associated with Pocket PC Thoughts, warts and all (both mine and the site's).

[MPSmith]

Brad, I can add nothing to what you just said. That was extremely well written.

[Hyperluminal]

Yeah, Rirath, I think you're asking this site to be something it's not. It's not just a "Toshiba released this...", "SanDisk announced that..." type of site. It's opinion also, be it good or bad. It's not a blog, but that's its heritage, and something of its nature. And in my opinion, if the news contributers didn't post opinions, but just raw news, it would be a lot more boring.

And as was suggested before, you're more than welcome to start your own site with your own rules... :D

[MPSmith]

And as was suggested before, you're more than welcome to start your own site with your own rules... :D

As he's said repeatedly, he DOES have his own site.

[mscdex]

We, too, have noticed that Thoughts (and other similar sites) doesn't always seem as inviting as it once was.

In talking with new readers, we've found out that newbies especially feel intimidated because they sometimes get jumped on by other readers for asking "stupid questions" or for being less than an expert on all things Pocket PC.

I think that a lot of the time, when people post things in the forums, what they say comes out the wrong way. Since emotions or feelings cannot be determined by reading simple text, one person may read a reply and interpret it as being sarcastic, putting them down, etc.. This is a big problem. Some things that do help out this predicament/problem are the emoticons. They do help in our attempt to express what we are truly saying, and in what manner it was meant to be said in.

That's just my take on the situation.

[Kati Compton]

Without getting into the other issues raised here, I'd like to say that I don't mind "old" software being reviewed. I don't just buy/download new software, and users jump into the PPC world at different points in time. I think it's useful to have reviews of as many software packages as possible, even if they are a little old. Timeliness is good, especially for those that try to buy the newest software. And while I can see making an effort (that I think is probably already being made) to review things as soon as possible after release, I wouldn't "ban" any reviews of software that isn't quite as new.

Part of the issue is that to do an in-depth review sometimes involves using the software for a while before writing the review.

[Kati Compton]

I think that a lot of the time, when people post things in the forums, what they say comes out the wrong way. Since emotions or feelings cannot be determined by reading simple text, one person may read a reply and interpret it as being sarcastic, putting them down, etc.. This is a big problem. Some things that do help out this predicament/problem are the emoticons. They do help in our attempt to express what we are truly saying, and in what manner it was meant to be said in.


True. But "You're stupid and everything you say is stupid :D" is still offensive... It still is a combination of language and emoticons that are important. And it's true that no matter how good/friendly a site is, something will be misconstrued. But I think that there has been an increase in the amount of "roughness" in the board. I only started here somewhat recently, so I haven't seen a big change, but I have seen a little.

[mscdex]

True. But "You're stupid and everything you say is stupid :D" is still offensive...

I agree, but what I was talking about was in regards to less obvious comments, that aren't outright degrading or harmful.

[JvanEkris]

Personally, i do like the rants about "firewalls and messenger not being compatible" and the like. Although not interesting to everybody, this was wat PocketPCTHoughts was all about in the old days. Men fighting with software. Being on the edge of possibilities (mind you 99% of the population in the world never heard of a firewall or the like), this is a site for people working with PocketPC's. By nature people do not restrict themselves to just PocketPC's:), but play around with other toys as well. Personally, i can relate to these rants....

Jaap

[Jason Dunn]

It's a legitimate notion IMO that this site has become more negative over the last few years. Rirath calls it "Anti Pocket PC" but I call it a shift to the dark side. These days it seems that what I once considered an inviting and open site has gotten a little negative edge to it.

Well, we're only 2.4 years old, so I guess that means we were only positive for .4 years. :lol:

I'm not going to validate Rirath's post by responding to it, because I have zero respect for him or his opinions for a handful of reasons that I won't share here. Suffice it to say I stopped taking him seriously many months ago, and I will be pleased to see him leave.

But I'm willing to discuss the nature of this site with other people here, because there are some valid questions/points. Ultimately what I write here may end up as part of our "about this site" page - perhaps if I articulate the vision for this site, people like Tony (Rirath) wouldn't stick around because it's not what they're looking for, and they'd go find a site more to their liking.

Let me be blunt: there are probably 50+ Pocket PC sites out there that deliver news & software press releases as fast, if not faster, than we do. I used to feel worried by that fact, that people could get the news faster than we could deliver it, but no longer. The sites that ARE successful are successful for one reason: personality and passion. The best Pocket PC sites around are the ones with the personality of their team imprinted directly on the content. That means commentary and opinions.

Sometimes that means praise for the platform - sometimes that means criticism of the platform. I still use and adore my Pocket PCs, regardless of how critical I am of some of their functions. Every time we criticise something about the Pocket PC, it's because we want to make it better! If that hasn't been obvious, I guess I should explain myself better. :wink: And because the site is so imprinted with the personality of it's content providers (the news team), that means you're going to see our thoughts, both on and off topic. That's part of what community is - sharing.

If you want raw press releases, go to PPC Newswire. (http://www.ppcnewswire.com/news.asp) If you want opinions, insight, and (yes) rants and raves about the topics, stay right here or go find another site that has a mix of editorial & news. Ultimately, no site is perfect for everyone, and you'd have to be a fool to think you can change someone else's site into exactly what you want it to be. :wink:

We had 30K visitors on Monday alone, so I continue to believe that we're doing something right. If we're not, the people will stop visiting. That's the benchmark we use to guide our growth. We're always open to suggestions on how to improve, but no one should be under the delusion that we can and will change the way we do things based on every suggestion we get.

Hope this clears things up a little!

[Jason Dunn]

And as was suggested before, you're more than welcome to start your own site with your own rules... :D

As he's said repeatedly, he DOES have his own site.

Yes, but it's an ego site, nothing more. There's nothing inherently wrong with ego sites, but they shouldn't be confused with community sites. He has no community forums, no focus, and ultimately not in the same category as this site. That's not a criticism, it's a fact.

If he thinks he can do a better job at running a Pocket PC site, he should stop flapping his lips and step up the plate and launch one! I'd gladly link to it from our front page and go check out what he can do.

Rirath talks the talk, but he doesn't have the guts to step out and do anything about it.

[JvanEkris]

Sometimes that means praise for the platform - sometimes that means criticism of the platform. I still use and adore my Pocket PCs, regardless of how critical I am of some of their functions. Every time we criticise something about the Pocket PC, it's because we want to make it better! If that hasn't been obvious, I guess I should explain myself better.

So having a pocketPC is a bit like a marriage to you than, Jason. You love your PocketPC but you keep critisizing it becuase you want to love it even more :wink:

Jaap

[Jason Dunn]

Personally, i do like the rants about "firewalls and messenger not being compatible" and the like. Although not interesting to everybody, this was wat PocketPCTHoughts was all about in the old days. Men fighting with software. Being on the edge of possibilities...

Exactly! You GET it! :D I wouldn't spend the time writing something up unless I thought people would enjoy it, learn something from it, or have knowledge to contribute to the issue. This isn't a personal blog of mine (I'm not going to bitch and moan about the cold weather or traffic), but it's very much a TECHNOLOGY blog, focused mainly around Pocket PCs. Because this is the only Thoughts Media site on the grid at the moment, it's a bit of a collecting ground for other topics, but I don't think we've crossed the line of "Why the hell are they writing about this?".

[Jason Dunn]

So having a pocketPC is a bit like a marriage to you than, Jason. You love your PocketPC but you keep critisizing it becuase you want to love it even more :wink:

Exactly! Just ask my wife - I'm always trying to make her better too! :wink: :lol:

[MPSmith]

Well, we're only 2.4 years old, so I guess that means we were only positive for .4 years. :lol:

You got me there. Let me correct my comment to say that I've noticed it increasingly over the last few months. As I said, I only made the comment to help improve the site. You've always seemed open to that.

As I said, I go to this site more than any other for my "PPC fix" and will continue to do so.

Mike

[Pat Logsdon]

Exactly! Just ask my wife - I'm always trying to make her better too! :wink: :lol:
Just don't ever mention the word "upgrade"...I still have scars... :wink:

[Kaber]

Jason and PPCT Crew,
You guys are doing a fine job. Keep it up, keep it fresh.

[shawnc]

Let me start off by saying that this reply is NOT meant to be anti-Rirath. I'll admit that I'm not a big fan, but I had my say earlier in this thread and that's that. Plus, who could follow what Jason said. Very well put.

I just want to question the perception that this site has somehow turned negative. Granted, I'm new to the party, but the only negativity I have seen is usually (almost always) coming from Rirath. I read this site WAY more than my employer needs to know, and Rirath is the only poster that I would consider rude or negative. I'm not talking about people respectively disagreeing with someone, I'm talking about always complaining because questions don't live up to his lofty standards (or about some other irrelevant topic), and then spewing venom at the questioner. As far as I can tell, he is THE reason new visitors are hesitant to ask questions. I've had disagreements with others on this site, but rarely has it gotten personal. With Rirath, it always seems to be personal. His anger and bitterness always seem to come across in all he does.

I don't think the site is negative (but like I said, I'm new to the party). I think you have a very vocal and V-E-R-Y small minority who occasionally cast their shadow over the entire site. They go away, so does the shadow. No one asks more basic questions than I did when I first came to this site, and EVERYONE (minus one) who responded did so with patience, humor, wit, and technical skill.

Lastly, as far as the reviews being less than timely, geez people lighten up. I'm guessing HP is not giving away free advance copies of Ipaqs to the PPCT staff. To review a product the right way you have to use it for a while. I really rely on these reviews, so I would rather they take a little longer and get it right then worrying about being first.

Great site, good people, and a nice community. Keep up the good work.

[shawnc]

Just don't ever mention the word "upgrade"...I still have scars... :wink:

ROFL :multi: !

[rocuf]

Exactly! Just ask my wife - I'm always trying to make her better too! :wink: :lol:
Just don't ever mention the word "upgrade"...I still have scars... :wink:
Or mention "trade-in on high mileage or rebate from manufacture" :lol:

[JackTheTripper]

What about the Lemon Law? Does that apply? My wife was running great up until about a year after we got married. Just stopped 'taking me where I needed to go.'

:P

[Rirath]

It amazes me how you folk have me pegged as some spiteful meanie who's putting down the hard work of Jason and crew. :? If I really hated this site and the people on it like you think, why the heck would I come and try to help out?

You make references to the awful and horrible things I've done to the innocent posters around here... man would I like to see some of this. :wink:

And as was suggested before, you're more than welcome to start your own site with your own rules... :D

As he's said repeatedly, he DOES have his own site.

Yes, but it's an ego site, nothing more. There's nothing inherently wrong with ego sites, but they shouldn't be confused with community sites. He has no community forums, no focus, and ultimately not in the same category as this site. That's not a criticism, it's a fact.

An... ego site? That's a new one. I have no community forums because I simply don't want them. Heck, look at all the responses I get here to just about anything I say. I can just imagine the angry responses I'd get to a few of the rants on the site. I simply leave out the ability, and have no problem. Heck, if you guys hate me that badly just ban my account and you'd have no more trouble. I would have banned anybody I didn't like that much the first time they annoyed me. Not that I believe I've ever done anything to deserve the responses I get around here. Like I've told you all before, I'm not going to take it personally or anything.

If he thinks he can do a better job at running a Pocket PC site, he should stop flapping his lips and step up the plate and launch one! I'd gladly link to it from our front page and go check out what he can do.

Rirath talks the talk, but he doesn't have the guts to step out and do anything about it.

Interesting... but Jason, we're on different sides of this. You admit you're not the main "webmaster" of this site, Fabrizo is. I'm more on Fabrizo's side of things than anything. My site does have focus, it's a simply a place to show what I've done (graphics, code, web design, PHP, etc) and spout off about various things that catch my interest. Nothing more, nothing less.

I never claimed to have a news site, I never claimed I could do it better. That's why I come to PPCT, after all. However, the correct responce to a comment such as:

"Rirath, start your own site with your own content. Then you can run it exactly like you want. "

Is still that I already do.

[shawnc]

What about the Lemon Law? Does that apply? My wife was running great up until about a year after we got married. Just stopped 'taking me where I needed to go.'

:P

Man....I sure hope your wife doesn't read this site :D !

[Tom W.M.]

He does have a point about the FAQs...
But how could anyone call this site uninviting? It's so blue! :wink:
But really, this site is far more inviting than a lot of them (Here (http://www.pcmag.com) and here (http://www.extremetech.com) come to mind...)

[Jason Dunn]

He does have a point about the FAQs...

What sort of FAQs would you like to see? I don't know that I understand the point...you mean just general Pocket PC FAQs? Aren't there good sources for that already?

[Ed Hansberry]

He does have a point about the FAQs...

What sort of FAQs would you like to see? I don't know that I understand the point...you mean just general Pocket PC FAQs? Aren't there good sources for that already?
I think "where is the FAQ" is a FAQ. :wink:

On a FAQ, what is a Pocket PC FAQ? Last one I saw was too long to go through and didn't address a bunch of stuff. IMHO, FAQ's are sort of outdated. Google killed 'em.

[ux4484]

Folks are always looking for help where ever they can get it, and if you're having PPC troubles where else would you go but a PPC site? Service in this day and age sucks, and when it does, communites like these can help the hapless consumer with experiance and support.

FAQ's......hmmmm......they are a REAL good idea........only one problem.........when you put them up, it's the first place every person with a problem goes, and they don't have to register (or participate) to use them. They are traffic generators, but they don't encourage you to come back (and see your new ads) unless you have another PPC problem (one of your gripes). I seriously feel the reason PDA Buzz is still so (strangely) positively rated (by a confused tech media) is because of the excellent FAQ's the Mods put up before the exodus. HHMG is reaping the gains based on hard work of people who aren't even part of the community anymore.....and who would remove their material in a minute if they could......a real burn for some of us who contributed.

I know when I started here, your certianly did not make me feel welcome as an (also) Palm user.

[Jason Dunn]

Thanks for the ideas on the FAQ - we'll think about it.

I know when I started here, your certianly did not make me feel welcome as an (also) Palm user.

Well, we're a Pocket PC site, so we're pretty single-minded. I apologize if you felt unwelcome, but we make no pretense of being a "PDA neutral" site like PDABuzz or Brighthand.

[JvanEkris]

Exactly! Just ask my wife - I'm always trying to make her better too! :wink: :lol:
Just don't ever mention the word "upgrade"...I still have scars... :wink:
Or mention "trade-in on high mileage or rebate from manufacture" :lol:

I once talked about warranty and bringing her back for "small adjustments" by the manufacturer. Well, let's say that doing my own washing that week was the most pleasant thing that happened.

Jaap

[JvanEkris]

Thanks for the ideas on the FAQ - we'll think about it.

At our board (Dutch Pocket PC Club) we put them up as sticky on top of every part of the forum. It saves a lot of questions that have been answered a zillion times. Because of their placing (on top of every forum), the newbees see it just in time for starting a thread (i.e. Just in time to stop them). We now have them in place on the critical places: Bluetooth, Siemens Loox, Ipaq, GPS and Applications.

It costs some time to write them, but once they are there it had an overall good effect on the board. The effect was three sided:
A lot of negative energy generated by people asking Frequently asked questions and people telling them to "use the bloody search function just once in your idiotic life" has been removed. It needs no explanation that discussions derailed from that point on. Getting rid of these discussions has simplified the life of a lot of our moderators.
Because of removing a lot of these repeating questions/discussions the overall quality of the board improved. More experienced users now debate more about complex problems instead of herassing newbees.
If people ask questions that are in the FAQ, you just post a link to the FAQ, a signal for the Newbee to think before he makes a thread. Also a signal for the experienced users not to herass this user any more: he has been punished. Nice thing is that experienced users start to mimic this behaviour. If they still can't get it done, you at least take it from there.

It had one negative effect. Every Moderator (we have about ten) has written one. We made the mistake to put on top that if people saw ommissions or errors to mail the responsible moderator. Big mistake. My PM box has been flooded since then :(

IMHO, it is worth the effort thinking about it. If you want the text in english, just give me a signal:)

Jaap
Moderator Dutch Pocket PC Club
Go visit the Dutch at www.pocketpc-club.nl

[pocketpcdude1024]

Thanks for the ideas on the FAQ - we'll think about it.

You could call 'em iFAQs! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[shawnc]

I don't feel strongly about FAQ's one way or the other. The thing that bugs me is the reason some folks seem to want one. If we are trying to cut costs by saving server/storage space, that I can see. But since neither Jason, Janak, Ed, et al seem to be pushing the concept, I doubt that that is the reason.

I could also understand if the general theme was one of concern for making the newbies experience more enjoyable. Again, that doesn't seem what's behind the movement.

The reason appears to be because people get angry (or irratated) when they see a question that has already been asked and answered. What am I missing???? If it bothers you that the question has already been asked, simply DON'T REPLY! How hard is that?

As great as this site is (and I am one of it's biggest fans) it is not very effective at performing searches. Just because you see a repeat question does not mean that the questioner did not try a search first.

Just remember that we were all newbies at one time. A little patience and tolerance can go a long way towards increasing the size of this community.

Don't mean to lecture or preach. Whether you agree or not, just remember one thing. If the question bothers you, simply don't reply.

[Jason Dunn]

I don't feel strongly about FAQ's one way or the other. The thing that bugs me is the reason some folks seem to want one. If we are trying to cut costs by saving server/storage space, that I can see. But since neither Jason, Janak, Ed, et al seem to be pushing the concept, I doubt that that is the reason.

The real reason is simply one of resources. We don't have the resources right now to create something of this magnitude, but there might be a good way for us to tap into the knowledge of the community and have something that doesn't require a huge effort to maintain.

[ux4484]

Well, we're a Pocket PC site, so we're pretty single-minded. I apologize if you felt unwelcome, but we make no pretense of being a "PDA neutral" site like PDABuzz or Brighthand.

heh.....I meant Rirath, not the site in general.

I love my Dell, but PIM-wise it is really not any more functional than my Visor. Coming here got me beyond the PIM/ereader/Docs-to-go only concept of PDA use I was on.....and that's a good thing.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Just remember that we were all newbies at one time. A little patience and tolerance can go a long way towards increasing the size of this community.

Don't mean to lecture or preach. Whether you aree or not, just remember one thing. If the question bothers you, simply don't reply.
I agree that we don't want to rough up newbies. IMO a FAQ would ensure that a consistent answer exists for each new person looking to ask the same question. Seaches are very helpful if you have something very specific (such as something relating to a product name). They're more difficult to work with when the question becomes more general (which is what is inherently asked by newcomers).

The real reason is simply one of resources. We don't have the resources right now to create something of this magnitude, but there might be a good way for us to tap into the knowledge of the community and have something that doesn't require a huge effort to maintain.
That doesn't surprise me at all. I've wanted to come up with a FAQ myself and see what you guys (admins and posters alike) thought of it. Sadly, I've barely had enough time to post here let alone generate my own FAQ. I'd still like to try though.

As for the rant, I'll respectfully disagree and say I think this is a great site. During slow news periods, I'm probably only mildly interested in about 40-50% of the front-page topics and I find myself skipping over a majority of the threads I see, but we all have our needs and a site can't be everything to everybody. Keep up the great work, I say.

[JvanEkris]

I agree that we don't want to rough up newbies. IMO a FAQ would ensure that a consistent answer exists for each new person looking to ask the same question. Seaches are very helpful if you have something very specific (such as something relating to a product name). They're more difficult to work with when the question becomes more general (which is what is inherently asked by newcomers).
Well i like too go further than that. A lot of newbies simply do not understand a lot of specific terms. Search functions are a good tool for somebody who knows the language (and the abreviations) and knows what to look for. When this knowledge is not there, a search function is useless. I tested it a few times with some newbies on our board. Most of the time they did try a search, but for somebody who just bought his first PPC the search function could prove worthless because of the language barrier.

I agree that a lot of "old experts" just should stay out of those discussions. I really wished they did, but they don't (&^$#$&^*& bastards), at least at our board. Basically they are annoyed that the forum does not grow with them, and shows them just challinging questions and hot solutions. These people all use the "new post" feature and get annoyed by the fact that it is "littered" with already answered newbie questions and that they have to dig through the dirt to find their most interesting questions.

Jaap

[Weyoun6]

The real reason is simply one of resources. We don't have the resources right now to create something of this magnitude, but there might be a good way for us to tap into the knowledge of the community and have something that doesn't require a huge effort to maintain.

How about a faq that uses something like wiki (http://wiki.org/wiki.cgi?WhatIsWiki)?

[Ed Hansberry]

The real reason is simply one of resources. We don't have the resources right now to create something of this magnitude, but there might be a good way for us to tap into the knowledge of the community and have something that doesn't require a huge effort to maintain.

How about a faq that uses something like wiki (http://wiki.org/wiki.cgi?WhatIsWiki)?
LOL! Great minds think alike. I was thinking about that just this morning Weyoun.

[Jason Dunn]

The real reason is simply one of resources. We don't have the resources right now to create something of this magnitude, but there might be a good way for us to tap into the knowledge of the community and have something that doesn't require a huge effort to maintain.

How about a faq that uses something like wiki (http://wiki.org/wiki.cgi?WhatIsWiki)?
LOL! Great minds think alike. I was thinking about that just this morning Weyoun.

Looks interesting. I've been working on a FAQ system with another MVP for over a year now, but the project sort of stalled...it was going to be a "living FAQ" in that anyone could contribute updates or edits to a question. The whole concept was totally killer, but we just didn't have the resources to get it off the ground.

This is a concept worth investigating, and it would certainly be something we'd need the community to be involved with, so let me take it back to our team and discuss it.

[Pony99CA]

As great as this site is (and I am one of it's biggest fans) it is not very effective at performing searches. Just because you see a repeat question does not mean that the questioner did not try a search first.

I agree that the Search capability isn't very good. There have been times that I've wanted to find a post of mine to provide a link to a question. I'd type in a couple of words that I was sure I'd used and my name as the author to narrow the search, only to have the search find nothing. :really mad:

Here's an example. I wanted to find the "Pocket TV Broswer Reviewed" thread (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9596) that I posted in. I typed "Pocket TV Browser" in the search field, selected Search for all terms, typed my user name into the author field and hit the Search button. I got the "No topics or posts met your search criteria" message, but, if you look at the thread I linked to, I think I should have.

Interestingly, typing "Pocket Browser" without the "TV" did find the thread. :?:

Just remember that we were all newbies at one time. A little patience and tolerance can go a long way towards increasing the size of this community.

Exactly! Plus, answering FAQs is a great way to boost that post count. :-D

Steve

[ThomasC22]

Well, I put some serious thought into jumping into this mess, but I guess I'm nowhere near as smart as I wish I was. That said...

The Faq: Just a suggestion but why don't you let the community build the faq for you. Like for instance, post a question every couple of days on the front page, then post a link to that thread on a faq page. Almost no effort and before you know it you'll have a pretty good faq.

Rirath: a couple suggestions for what it's worth

1 - Stop being so harsh. I actually respect you for your willingness to state your opinion (even if it's unpopular) and your civil tone but civil does not equate to respectful or polite. In other words, start looking at the content of your message and not the tone and I think you'll start to realize why people react to you in the way they do.

2 - Accept that nothing's perfect. There are always going to be things that you don't like, but others might like those exact same things, so let it go. No matter where you go, be it a message board, a class, or a job, you're going to have to make certain changes to your behavior to get along. It's the way of the world.

3 - Remember you do like this place, the reason I was drawn to this thread was that I noticed you'd passed Kati in posts so you must enjoy something about this board. So, if you value your experience here, take steps to make it work. I'm willing to bet you'll be happy you did in the end.

Everyone: a couple suggestions for what it's worth

1 - I've found that some of the worst posts out there are by people defending civility...just a thought.

2 - I don't mean this to be rude so please don't take it that way, but you might want to consider letting Jason defend himself. He can defend himself and I've found that he's usually better at doing so then those who would jump to his defense. Not saying you shouldn't support him (with like a "I think the sites great the way it is") but usually the most vicious posts that come out of threads like this are ones defending Jason and knowing him I don't think that's what he would want (he can certainly correct me).

3 - Leave Rirath alone. As you can probably tell from above, I don't dislike Rirath but I think he has a lot to learn about how to present his thoughts, but you making the same mistakes that he's making doesn't make anything better (I mean, Come on ShawnC, you're better than that).

EdH: Would you please stop it with the "go build your own board schtick"? Ed, I've known of you for quite some time now, and your a pretty smart guy (most of the time) so I know, that you know, it isn't that simple. If someone is dead wrong (like in the case of Rirath here), tell them why. As someone who's championed being civil in the past you should be ashamed of your first post in this thread because it served no purpose other than to attack Rirath.

Anyway, that's my piece, for what it's worth. Keep in mind all the above statements are just suggestions and I'm not trying to tell you what to do.

Oh and one last thing, please don't try to post an attack on me, I'm well aware of my many, many, MANY faults and normally I'd say take me to task but that isn't the board that PPCThougths wants to be so try to be respectful of that and stay civil (you can of course, feel free to attack me in an E-Mail or PM, which are both welcome).

[Ed Hansberry]

EdH: Would you please stop it with the "go build your own board schtick"? Ed, I've known of you for quite some time now, and your a pretty smart guy (most of the time) so I know, that you know, it isn't that simple. If someone is dead wrong (like in the case of Rirath here), tell them why. As someone who's championed being civil in the past you should be ashamed of your first post in this thread because it served no purpose other than to attack Rirath.
It isn't schtick, and it wasn't my first reply to Rirath on his complaints on the site, though it was the first in this thread and I was beyond being cordial. This isn't his first complaint session and I am sick of it.

1. Pocket PC Thoughts is run by volunteers.
2. Pocket PC Thoughts is free to members
3. We are pretty open to member feedback
4. Rirath complains to no end about so many things about 'thoughts that he should go and build his own enthusiast site and run it the way he wants. Then, if he is proven to be better at it, the market and "hits" will show that.

[baker]

Ever think that Rirath complains just to get us riled for the fun of it?

[Pony99CA]

I was hoping this thread had died last week, but I guess not. :-(

I don't think Ed's first post was harsh at all. Here it is in it's entirety:


Rirath, start your own site with your own content. Then you can run it exactly like you want.

Remember, this site started as a blog and is composed of "daily news, views, rants and raves."

I could see using that for anyone complaining. It could be a mantra like Brad's contest one of "no whining". :-)

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Rirath hasn't posted since March 13, ten days ago. Can we let this drop and get back to the reason we're all here -- Pocket PCs?

Steve

[shawnc]

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Rirath hasn't posted since March 13, ten days ago. Can we let this drop and get back to the reason we're all here -- Pocket PCs?

Steve

I was going to respond to thomasc22 since he mentioned me by name but I think Steve is right. It's time to let it be.

[Steven Cedrone]

Can we let this drop and get back to the reason we're all here -- Pocket PCs?

Agreed... :?

Thread locked, and moved...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator