Pocket Informant 4 Just Around The Corner [Archive]

Ed Hansberry

03-05-2003, 11:00 PM

<a href="http://www.pocketinformant.com">http://www.pocketinformant.com</a> Pocket Informant 4 will be here in a few hours. There is nothing radically different like 3.0 was versus the 2.x series but instead some very solid improvements on the great 3.x engine. Just a few of the features I've discovered that I like: • Task grouping by Priority, Progress, Importance, Date and other items. (pictured below) • Easily create "child" tasks via tap-and-hold • Tasks can be independently turned on/off in each of the 4 calendar views. This is awesome in Week View for me where tasks were too much clutter. I can leave them on in Month and Agenda view though. • Template application is very different than in 3.x. It is much better, including a "%s" variable. If you are a 3.x user, be sure you understand how it works now by reading the quick overview available at the Pocket Informant's site before using them. • Alarm Note view can now view text/typed notes and/or voice notes from the Pocket PC Notes application. • The fish-eye Month view has been improved to support the joypad, seems to be much faster and other tweaks. • Colors tab in Options has been greatly simplified. You now pick one color for each of Free, Busy, Tentative and Out of Office and that color is used across all views. • There is much much more. Those are just some of the biggies. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2003/20030305-pi4.gif" /> <a href="http://store.eSellerate.net/a.asp?c=0_SKU655073479_AFL9873419046">Pricing is $24.95</a> (affiliate). Existing 3.x users can upgrade for $12.50 unless you purchased it after December 1, 2002 which would make it free. Pocket PC 2000 and 2002 devices are supported. It should be on the Pocket Informant web site later tonight or early Thursday morning complete with the upgrade link and documentation. Overall, the app just feels faster and everything seems to have been tweaked to give it a more intuitive feel. All of this power makes Outlook on the desktop look rather pathetic in comparison. Hmmmm... Desktop Informant? ;)

huangzhinong

03-05-2003, 11:35 PM

Ed Hansberry

03-05-2003, 11:39 PM

I won't buy it , unless,
4. Program is less than 300k.
Given the installer is 1.9MB....

Why a 300K limit? The main EXE is 392K but it has a few DLLS, an 83K setting app, etc.

PI is always one of the first 2-3 apps loaded for me after a hard reset. FITALY is first so I can key in the PI reg code without getting lost on that QWERTY keyboard. :wink:

ikesler

03-05-2003, 11:47 PM

I was in one of the Beta groups on this version...... and have to say, it rocks. I have been using PI since the start and it is always running on my device.............
4.0 is a great update and offers quite a bit.............. check it out. I love it.

Jonathon Watkins

03-06-2003, 12:00 AM

Well I'm game. Time for an upgrade methinks. :D

CTSLICK

03-06-2003, 12:05 AM

I won't buy it , unless,

1. the alert note is as good as bugme.
2. the program loading time is less time 0.5s
3. month view is less than 0.5s.
4. Program is less than 300k.

What i am using now is Jornada 568, h1910 and Dell axim 400Mhz.

Thats the nice part about this...you don't have to buy it. PI gives you a trial period...you could answer all of your concerns in short order.

However, with the memory limitation you have...300k?...it sounds like your not looking for the kind of feature set that PI offers. Even still...give it a try...it won't cost you a dime.

I'm glad to give up a chunk of the paltry 16 MB on my EM-500 for PI

SofaTater

03-06-2003, 12:06 AM

Looks great -- and I purchased after Dec. 1, so it'll be a free upgrade for me (after getting it free via rebates from Handango)...

MPSmith

03-06-2003, 12:16 AM

I like PI3, but won't be updating this time. If you're not careful, you can update this program from version 1 to version 2 to version 3 to version 4 and spend over $50 on one piece of software!

I certainly respect the reason they charge for certain upgrades though, because they put a lot of effort into them. Pocket Informant has improved leaps and bounds from its original version and deserves every penny it gets.

Ed Hansberry

03-06-2003, 12:27 AM

I like PI3, but won't be updating this time. If you're not careful, you can update this program from version 1 to version 2 to version 3 to version 4 and spend over $50 on one piece of software!

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/spiral_3.gif

you want to upgrade.... new features are cool.... it is only money.... must have latest....

:wink: :lol:

Seriously, $50 for versions 1-4 over, what? 3 years? $12 a year for this app or any other killer app like it? Yup. In a heartbeat.

Jonathon Watkins

03-06-2003, 12:37 AM

I agree with Ed - it's fair enough. If this were desktop SW we'd be paying $50 each upgrade, let alone for several full versions. It's worth it, you know it is! :wink:

MPSmith

03-06-2003, 12:43 AM

I didn't say it wasn't fair Gerbil, just that one should be aware how much they are investing in software. Like anything else, you need to evaluate whether the upgrade is worth it for you. My current version works great and the new features don't make me want to pay the extra $12.50 right now.

This is an awesome piece of software. They deserve every penny they get. Way to go Alex!

fgarcia10

03-06-2003, 12:45 AM

I'm allways checking for upgrades for PI. I bought it when it was 2.6 and this is the only time I will have to pay for an upgrade. I must have PI4 :smilecolros:

ikesler

03-06-2003, 12:51 AM

I agree also......... I have two or three programs that I always upgrade...... and PI is one of them. The feature set keeps getting better and the things that didn't work seem to go away......... you can always try the new version for free and check...... but I always just buy it if it is a program that is a MUST have for me.... and PI is.

Video11

03-06-2003, 12:56 AM

I'll agree with PDAGerbil who agreed with Ed...

I originally purchased PI in August 2002 and since then there have been at least seven free upgrades to PI. I think that's worth repaeating: Seven Free Upgrades! Each upgrade has provided additional features that made the program even better. Now PI Version 4.0 adds even more features and enhancements. I have no qualms about paying for this upgrade. I feel it is the least I can do to support such a great developer.

Keep up the good work Alex and all at WebIS!

Cheers.

fyiguy

03-06-2003, 01:07 AM

To give you a better idea of to expect, Shaun Beane has put up a great preview of new features here (http://www.bostonpocketpc.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=88).

Check it out...

iPaqDude

03-06-2003, 01:21 AM

I'm the same - PI is the primary app on my iPaq and has been one of the best software investments I have made for it. I have been using it since 2.4 or 2.6 - don't remember - and will more than likely spring for the upgrade.

I have been using the @Mail client from them and am impressed as well - it has a ways to go, but is definately on the right track.

kwerner

03-06-2003, 02:28 AM

So is it available yet? I don't see it on pocketinformant.com. The affiliate link is for the full version. How do you get the upgrade?

EvilOne

03-06-2003, 02:32 AM

So is it available yet? I don't see it on pocketinformant.com. The affiliate link is for the full version. How do you get the upgrade?

It is not fully out, there is a full blown CAB file on their FTP site, but it is suppose to be released tonight... Late or early, that I do not know.

ploeg

03-06-2003, 04:45 AM

It is not fully out, there is a full blown CAB file on their FTP site, but it is suppose to be released tonight... Late or early, that I do not know.

Bottom of the Boston Pocket PC website says "sometime after 11 pm CST," which would put us at least 1h15m away.

Mark R Penn

03-06-2003, 05:10 AM

I can tell you Alex is working hard to get the docs and the supporting web pages ready. It won't be long!

And this is truely the best PIM there is, bar none!

wiley

03-06-2003, 06:17 AM

I too will be upgrading. I must also second the comment made by Ed:
All of this power makes Outlook on the desktop look rather pathetic in comparison. Hmmmm... Desktop Informant? :wink:
I now use PI almost exclusively because it is so easy to use and just keeps getting better. I hope that the MS Office people take a few hints from PI.

As for the comment about the cost of upgrades, PLUS! Media Edition is 20 bucks and doesn't have half of the quality of PI. That's the cheapest MS offering I can think of off the top of my head. If office was 50% off it still wouldn't come close to the PI price. IMHO 12-25 dollars for such a great product (PI) is money well spent.

Janak Parekh

03-06-2003, 06:55 AM

Ed, do you know if PI4 supports task grouping by category? That'd be worth its weight in gold. That, and the anemic 7-day view, are my only two beefs with PI3.46.

--janak

Fzara

03-06-2003, 07:00 AM

yeah, and you also forgot the 20 minute loading time for PI3 to actually start up :evil:

Can anyone tell me when PI4 is released, if the launching is faster than the current PI3?

Thanks

jbctech

03-06-2003, 07:02 AM

do you know if PI4 supports task grouping by category? That'd be worth its weight in gold. That, and the anemic 7-day view, are my only two beefs with PI3.46.

--janak

Janak,

fyiguy posted a link to the BostonPocketPC.com site here (http://www.bostonpocketpc.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=88). It had a shot of the task grouping for PI4.

Hope that helps.

James

ombu

03-06-2003, 07:03 AM

Ed, do you know if PI4 supports task grouping by category? That'd be worth its weight in gold. That, and the anemic 7-day view, are my only two beefs with PI3.46.

--janak

:oops: Sorry, I'm not Ed but I can answer this, yes, it does, by category and by date, by importance, by priority, and a few more I don't remember now, and task view is cool, really cool.

Regards. :)

Janak Parekh

03-06-2003, 07:08 AM

Yay! :D I'm buying this as soon as I get to my office tomorrow. :)

--janak

ombu

03-06-2003, 07:17 AM

Can anyone tell me when PI4 is released, if the launching is faster than the current PI3?

Thanks

It's just a few hours from now.

Regards.

marlof

03-06-2003, 09:02 AM

Marc Zimmermann

03-06-2003, 09:27 AM

Seems to be up now at the PI website...

Doug Rausch

03-06-2003, 01:01 PM

Every time I see PI screenshots, I'm scared. The UI looks so crowded with all different icons, I really don't know where to look. Happily I'm well aware that you can switch off a lot of that, and get a nice clean interface that I personally like. I'm really looking forward to this new release!

I'm a low screen clutter kind of guy as well. You can tell there is a lot of thought behind the PI layout, controls are consistent between different views (calender, tasks, notes, etc.) and things just seem intuitively right. Plus, as you said you have great control to turn display features on and off to get what doesn't matter to you out of the way. Great program. I just wish Microsoft offered a way for me to unload all their apps I no longer use, I could use the memory.

Ed Hansberry

03-06-2003, 01:34 PM

marlof

03-06-2003, 01:45 PM

Most of those icons are users and linked to categories. You can turn those off by simply not having any icons in the ICON folder. Then you are left with simple things like a bell for an appointment or task with an alarm, the circle-arrow for recurring items or the diamond for all day events.

I guess that's what I meant when I said "Happily I'm well aware that you can switch off a lot of that, and get a nice clean interface that I personally like." :)

fjp

03-06-2003, 01:51 PM

I was always switching back and forth from and to AgendaFusion and PocketInformant, but now PI really rocks! You can have it as simple or as sophisticated as you want.

The new templates are super convenient (just one suggestion: when using two templates, please let also more than one category apply), the task grouping gives excellent overviews, the integration of outlook notes into the PI Alarm Notes gives you an all-in-one solution, and it's FAST!!!!

I can only recommend it!

Janak Parekh

03-06-2003, 04:44 PM

Every time I see PI screenshots, I'm scared. The UI looks so crowded with all different icons, I really don't know where to look. Happily I'm well aware that you can switch off a lot of that, and get a nice clean interface that I personally like. I'm really looking forward to this new release!
Just to add to what Ed said, it's also just a learning process. The first time I installed the PI trial (back in the 2.x days), I tried it for 2 hours and then uninstalled it -- I found it too confusing and frustrating. But as people kept on raving about it, I sat down and read through parts of the manual and discovered the utility of the icon density. Since the PPC screen is so small, being able to cram all that stuff in makes it that much more useful to me. :)

And Marlof, since when were you scared of a Pocket PC app? Have I found your source of nightmares? PI screens floating before your eyes? :lol:

--janak

garretwp

03-06-2003, 04:52 PM

I to will upgrade, the grouping of tasks is what i was hoping for, instead of making a task and have it set to like 2030 and use that as a templet. But i really cant use my pda till i get my darn case in for my Axim. But once that comes in PI will be used all the time.

Garrett

Ed Hansberry

03-06-2003, 05:05 PM

I to will upgrade, the grouping of tasks is what i was hoping for, instead of making a task and have it set to like 2030 and use that as a templet.
Just an FYI - PI 3.x and 4.0 have real templates. You don't need to do the 2030 hack. See the Template Manager in the settings|Manage menu.

kwerner

03-06-2003, 05:06 PM

http://firstloox.org says the upgrade is free for PocketLoox users (PI3 came with the Loox).
For Pocket Loox owners, however, the upgrade to Pocket Informant 4 will be FREE under the contract with Fujitsu-Siemens!

garretwp

03-06-2003, 11:33 PM

Ed Hansberry, thats what i have been doing. But the new feature to create categories will make life much more easier.

Thanks,

Garrett

GadgetGuy

03-07-2003, 01:04 AM

sam5271

03-07-2003, 02:03 AM

Well, I have tried to covince myself that this is a nice app.. just because it looks like candy and looks usually cheat ... I tried so many versions.... all unstable ... unstable... and not stable.... slow like my grandmothers car in a winter night....
I now use Agenda... I mean for Gods sake.. all this new updates that they did, are already there in Agenda Fusion.... the task grouping and what have you...
Good luck for you if you're one of the people who were stuck buying this thingy.

Bye

Janak Parekh

03-07-2003, 02:50 AM

Well, I have tried to covince myself that this is a nice app.. just because it looks like candy and looks usually cheat ... I tried so many versions.... all unstable ... unstable... and not stable.... slow like my grandmothers car in a winter night....
I'm glad you find AF to be a good program, and it is, but what version of PI have you used? The last 5 versions or so have been extremely stable, and each one has been getting faster. v4 is another good performance jump, almost as fast as Pocket Outlook. Anonymous, contentless complaints don't help anyone.

--janak

thanos255

03-07-2003, 02:52 AM

I have found version 4 to load much faster.........at least on my 5455.

Thanks
Thanos

Mark R Penn

03-07-2003, 09:47 AM

I now use Agenda... I mean for Gods sake.. all this new updates that they did, are already there in Agenda Fusion.... the task grouping and what have you...

Task grouping is the only one added that was already in AF, and PI has done it properly - drag and drop consistent with Outlook on the desktop.

Just off the top of my head, things AF have yet to add before they come close to PI (and some of these have been in PI for a while):

Choice of traditional or month ahead MV.

Inline MV

Zoom

OS notes display in Alarm Notes, including wavs

A day view for Gods sake (not just a copy of the Today screen with the equivelant of free plugins)!

Status filters in calendar view

A decent priority manager (come on AF, lets at least have A-J and 1-10 if you can't manage A-Z and 1-99. No d&d manager? Never mind)

Ability to not show undated tasks in TV

Some space in MV

A decent, configurable search function

Custom Views.

Multi level templates.

@mail integration (@mail at extra cost)

Journal syncing (extra cost add on, but not available for AF at all)

And that's just the ones I can think of whithout looking at the PPC. And how many of those are just eye candy, ummm, well, NONE.

One thing AF does have that PI does not - an extra $5 on the price!

Ooooh, less for more. Way to go AF, great deal. Duh.

Duncan

03-07-2003, 03:46 PM

Well, I have tried to covince myself that this is a nice app.. just because it looks like candy and looks usually cheat ... I tried so many versions.... all unstable ... unstable... and not stable.... slow like my grandmothers car in a winter night....

??? From where are people getting the notion that PI is slow? Maybe in the distant past but PI3.x has always loaded very quickly! I'm curious about this stabilty problem - it is by far my most used program and it has NEVER crashed, frozen my PPCs or let me down! As for the 'candy' remark - looks (neat, uncluttered, obvious icons, excellent use of colour etc.) actually DO make for a major selling point over Agenda Fusion. AF is cluttered, ugly and not nearly intuitive enough by comparison...

Perhaps there could be a new option when signing up - instead of 'I just signed up for the contests' - 'I just joined up so I could post a troll dropping :wink: . sam5271 eh - does this represent how many boards this guy has been kicked off in the past for trolling? :roll:

hamishmacdonald

03-07-2003, 06:12 PM

I can't use Pocket Informant. I have a Pocket LOOX, so I got it for free. I also bought @Mail. I keep installing them because I have them (and paid, in the one instance), then I keep taking them back out. The interfaces of both these programs make me feel like I'm walking through a maze with coloured lights flashing at my eyes.

What would I prefer? Something that was easier on the eyes, that looked like something from the real world (e.g. desktop calendar). I'd like to be able to see notes and links by tap-n-holding and have a little Post-It kind of thing show up, rather than being taken to an editing screen with a zillion buttons.

In the end, I understand why Microsoft made the choices they did with the built-in apps.

As I look at the header above, I find myself thinking that this website is more nicely designed than either Pocket Informant or Agenda Fusion (complementary colours - and few of them - appealing, smooth icons - not pixellated, etc). I'd like to use an agenda program that looked like it was made by designers, not programmers.

I understand that it takes a while to get used to using the program, and that many people love it. But I don't think I should have to learn the device. Its use should be transparent to me.

(Flinches, waiting for the hot lick of flames.)

- Hamish MacDonald

shindullin

03-07-2003, 06:53 PM

I don't think that PI is for the "casual user". There are plenty of free caledar add ons as well as the the "basic" pOutlook itself that can make the PPC a decent organizer/PDA. But if you want you PPC to help you prioritize tasks/meetings/contacts etc. (aka are a 'power user') of PIM functions then you need something like PI bc the existing software just isn't made to do it all. I read an article way back when where Alex said that PI and AF were very different program w.very different purposes and I have to agree with him. If you just need a little bit more than what pOutlook can provide then AF is for you. If you need a full blown information management system then that's what PI is all about. As for upgrading. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I really like the product and that's sort of my problem. I already like what I have and so I'm not sure if the new feature set will justify my spending $12 to upgrade for features that I didn't know that I was missing. But I'm sure that the work is top notch and I'll just have to download the demo to see if it's a must have...

Janak Parekh

03-07-2003, 08:23 PM

TheNewSteve

03-07-2003, 08:50 PM

Looks great -- and I purchased after Dec. 1, so it'll be a free upgrade for me (after getting it free via rebates from Handango)...

I got it the same way (from CompUSA, right?)...

how do I upgrade for free?

-Steve

Duncan

03-07-2003, 11:30 PM

I got it the same way (from CompUSA, right?)...

how do I upgrade for free?

Steve - I don't mean to knock you but you know PI does have a website has clear instructions for this...! You could have gone there and done what you need to do in the time it took you to ask the question here!

To make life simpler, however, here is the direct link (you need your CD serial number): http://www.pocketinformant.com/register.php?_function=justregister

kwerner

03-08-2003, 01:05 AM

The interfaces of both these programs make me feel like I'm walking through a maze with coloured lights flashing at my eyes.

Personally I think the color schemes need some work. Some people are good at picking colors that are coordinated, PI needs to have someone make a good theme for it. PI needs to have color theme support too so people can share them without using regedits.

I use the agenda view 90% of the time, I don't like the buttons on the right, it wastes precious pixels for what could be done with a simple scrollbar. The date selector could be at the bottom. IMO of course :-)

PJE

03-08-2003, 02:11 AM

I use the agenda view 90% of the time, I don't like the buttons on the right, it wastes precious pixels for what could be done with a simple scrollbar. The date selector could be at the bottom. IMO of course :-)

All you need to do is double click the agenda tab and items on the right hand side for the screen go away to be replaced by a larger view of the data! Oh! Ah! :wink:

PJE

Ed Hansberry

03-08-2003, 02:15 AM

All you need to do is double click the agenda tab and items on the right hand side for the screen go away to be replaced by a larger view of the data! Oh! Ah! :wink:
Yeah, that has been around for quite some time but I know I didn't see it for at least a few months after it had been released. Once, just once, I'd like to see a list of every feature in PI.

I doubt one exists. :wink: :D

PJE

03-08-2003, 02:22 AM

Yeah, that has been around for quite some time but I know I didn't see it for at least a few months after it had been released. Once, just once, I'd like to see a list of every feature in PI.

I doubt one exists. :wink: :D

I doubt it...

If you double click the other tabs the data preview window opens/closes.

One thing I'd like on the date/time picker would be a small dot to the right which could be pressed and while the stylus is held down moving it up and down (left and right) would change the day/time by an amount corresponding to the distance from the dot you moved the stylus...

...or a long bar down the right hand side where you could press/slide the stylus to select dates/times without needing to pop up the date/time picker.

PJE

kwerner

03-08-2003, 02:34 AM

All you need to do is double click the agenda tab and items on the right hand side for the screen go away to be replaced by a larger view of the data! Oh! Ah! :wink:
Shweeet!

Mark R Penn

03-08-2003, 02:39 AM

Personally I think the color schemes need some work. Some people are good at picking colors that are coordinated, PI needs to have someone make a good theme for it. PI needs to have color theme support too so people can share them without using regedits.

Why not just change the colours to something you like? They are all adjustable.

Theme support would be OK, but how do you take account of everyones peferences for category colours, status colours etc, as well as all the UI colours? I recon even if you got a theme from someone, you'd still want to change SOME of the colours, and if you have to do that, why not change the lot while your at it?

I don't think I have one of the default colours still set in my copy. I actually don't like the standard colours much, but many people do. It's a matter of taste, so the right thing to do is to give the user complete control - and that's what's been done.

William Yeung

03-08-2003, 04:13 AM

Haha... this thread is getting funny.

Let me give some idea on what I think.
1. PI 3.x overall is a big step comparing to built in one, I go thru trial and then paid. No way back.

2. Chinese/Double byte support: DO U HEAR MY SCREAM? Notes in Task... or in everything always ruin up the double byte characters... man I speak chinese and write chinese (Althought this is in english now on the thread :P)

3. Slow. Even in 4.0, slow. Why I say so? well... I feel that it should be able to take away something too clumspy, its unfair to compare with P-Outlook, but somehow P-Outlook, especially calendar view, is quite a bit faster and neat. I know some power users want to have all things in a nutshell, but to me too complicated interface will fear average user. The way to abstract features in powerful package is a must to deal with average users. (haha I didnt upgrade 4 for a particular reason: its not fast enough to upgrade, and if I only use agenda view (thats the one I use) I dont come across too much speed issue though... The other speed issue lies on the time selector, I can see things drawing up :P (EVEN ON MY NEW ipaq 54... gosh I suppose this is already rocket fast... though not a big leap from the 206 era StrongARM...)

4. Interface tuning: Powerful features need neat interface to unleash! coloring scheme, icons, are things that can be THAT MUCH USEFUL, IF YOU TUNE INTERFACE. Currently couple things are far too clumspy from what it should be, from ICON view, to some very funny powerful feature at the menu (man... I guess 99.99% ppl wont clean up their PIM that often, why dare to put that in the toolbar menu item within 2 clicks away? while some of the preference are really not illustrated clean enough... e.g. some grouping in color scheme for different item instead of a list view?)

Afterall some suggestion for the already great software developer in WebIS:
1. Can you do a full revision on your interface? I dont think its worth a version number upgrade unless you fix this interface burden to most user. I can tell you should really hear quite a bit ppl screaming things are just a bit too busy there...
2. Test chinese... with more and more popular chinese version ppc shipping... I should think you need to at least make your software works with that if not interface localization...
3. Speed: test the software, speed up some critical part of the system (well not fair to say that I know, I have 3.x, maybe 4.0 fixed quite a bit... I might test that in detail later)

Have a nice day dear PPC Gurus busy on webboard everyday ^_*

ctmagnus

03-08-2003, 04:39 AM

If you just need a little bit more than what pOutlook can provide then AF is for you. If you need a full blown information management system then that's what PI is all about.

That's the route I took. I started out doing everything with the in-built apps, then used AF for a while and I now use PI. I shudder to think of what may come next :)

SassKwatch

03-08-2003, 01:54 PM

Video11

03-08-2003, 03:13 PM

Couple questions....

- Have any of the PI enthusiasts here done more than 'kick the tires' of AF? I'm not knocking PI at all (have never used it).....just looking for a feature comparison that might give me reason to change.

- Can a trial install of PI and AF peacefully co-exist on the same device?

Thanks!

Yes, you can run the trial versions of both Pocket Informant and Agenda Fusion at the same time. In fact that's what I did for a couple of weeks before finally deciding on PI. I can't remember now what exactly made me choose PI over AF (sorry), but I haven't looked back.

Instead of running both at the same time, you might want to try AF exclusively for a week and then PI exclusively for a week. Then make your choice.

Cheers.

Mark R Penn

03-08-2003, 04:52 PM

- Have any of the PI enthusiasts here done more than 'kick the tires' of AF?

I have spent a lot of time useing both. I started with PI at version 2.somethingorother, and didn't try AF at that time. However, the fact that AF had task grouping while PI did not (does now) made me try AF when PI was at about 3.4. I tried AF for the full trial period, and didn't use PI at all during that time, because I wanted to give myself a chance to become familiar with AF.

First impression when going from one to the other (whichever way round) is bound to be that the "other" is not as good as the one you are used to, because it takes time to get familliar with the way things are done. Fact is though both are very intuitive, just different.

I have to say though that even though I got pretty used to AF, and loved the task grouping, I just could not get happy with it's lack of features compared to PI. There were many things I'd come to rely on in PI, that just were not available in AF, and still aren't. Apart from the task grouping, the same did not apply in reverse.

I think in general (flamers note IN GENERAL - means "maybe not for you"):

Out of the box both products have a learning curve, and both will at first appear confusing - get over it, it's worth it!

If you are unhappy with the built in PIM functions, AF is one hell of a step up, and can't fail to impress. It IS a superb product. Overpriced for what it offers in comparison with the more complete and cheaper PI, IMO, but excellant none the less.

Going from AF to PI will also impress, but only if you give yourself time to get used to the features, and how things are done/how to make it fit your way of working. After all, noone would expect to go from Lotus to MS Office and not go through a learning curve, so why should it be any different here? If they both worked exactly the same way, there'd be no decision to make, and everyone would buy PI because it's cheaper. That would be very sad!

Going from PI to AF may be apropriate if you never use the features AF is missing (though of course just because they are there in PI does not mean you have to use them, and Alex has done a lot in the last few updates to make sure they don't become obtrusive) but if you do, then it can't fail to feal like a step backwards. As far as I can see, tye only reason for going that route would be speed, and that was valid in the past, but ON MY MACHINE (flamers note again), PI in version 4 is faster than AF, especially if other apps are running.

I have been thinking of doing a feature by feature comparison, but am worried that as soon as I do it it will be out of date, because both products develop at a rapid rate. Also I'm not sure where I'd put it, as I don't have my own website, and if I put it up on the PI forum, it will be seen as biased? I would not want to introduce any opinions into it, just litterally a feature comparrison list.

Mark

PJE

03-08-2003, 05:05 PM

Hi,

There have been a number of comments on the start up time of PI, and would like to point out that cold starting PI takes MUCH longer than unminimizing it...

For that reason I only minimize PI with WisBar rather than shut it down, as it's much faster to start back up. I'm also 3/4 of the way through generating an PJE optimized version of Pelmar WisBar which will never shut down PI even if you try to - merely minimize it. I was in the habit of closing down every program after I was finished with it, but this was conterproductive with PI.

My 2c

PJE

Janak Parekh

03-08-2003, 07:22 PM

Very strange - page seven was not showing up, even though PJE's post was on it, until I added this one?
Must have been a momentary fluke. I saw his post just fine before you posted yours.

Back ontopic: PJE, I agree that leaving PI running does speed its use up, but PI4 also has improved startup speed significantly -- to the point where it doesn't really bother me.

--janak

SassKwatch

03-08-2003, 10:06 PM

I tried AF for the full trial period, and didn't use PI at all during that time, because I wanted to give myself a chance to become familiar with AF.

First impression when going from one to the other (whichever way round) is bound to be that the "other" is not as good as the one you are used to, because it takes time to get familliar with the way things are done.

Absolutely.

I have to say though that even though I got pretty used to AF, and loved the task grouping, I just could not get happy with it's lack of features compared to PI. There were many things I'd come to rely on in PI, that just were not available in AF, and still aren't.

When was the last time you looked at AF? I ask because based on your list of things 'missing' from AF in a previous post, I had assumed it had been quite a while as many (probably not all) *ARE* now available in AF. And I'm not trying to be contentious at all....as you mention, both products have so many updates coming so quickly, it would take a fair amount of dedicated time using each to maintain a current list of the differences.

I have dl'd the demo of PI and plan to install it this eve and use it just as you suggest.....it and it alone for the trial period (unless of course, I find I can't do something in it I can do in AF). While AF seems to do all I need from a PIM, it certainly wouldn't hurt to see what I might be missing.

ctmagnus

03-08-2003, 11:43 PM

PI4 also has improved startup speed significantly -- to the point where it doesn't really bother me.

--janak

Just checked it on my setup - five Mississippis, which is quicker than Outlook starts up on my desktop.

Mark R Penn

03-09-2003, 12:18 AM

When was the last time you looked at AF? I ask because based on your list of things 'missing' from AF in a previous post, I had assumed it had been quite a while as many (probably not all) *ARE* now available in AF.

Last time was 5 days ago, version 4.92.

The only one I was not quoting from my own experience was the inability to exclude undated tasks from the view - that was a comment made by someone I know.

I'd be grateful if you could run through my list (page 5) and let me know which of those items ARE in AF. As I said I would like to do a feature by feature comparrison (which I would base on actually having both on my PPC at the same time - not memory), and I don't want to be unfair to either product. I don't think the things I listed are in AF 4.92, but maybe I'm wrong.

SassKwatch

03-09-2003, 04:29 AM

Just off the top of my head, things AF have yet to add before they come close to PI (and some of these have been in PI for a while):

Choice of traditional or month ahead MV.

Unless I misunderstand your desire, you can certainly move back & forth to future or previous months.

Inline MV

In 'Agenda View', the number of days displayed can be to be just about anything you want. Go to 'Custoize View' to choose # of days to display and easily turn this into an 'Inline MV.

Zoom

Not sure what you're looking for here. AF does have a 'Fusion Find' if you're looking for a search mechanism.

OS notes display in Alarm Notes, including wavs

Again, I'm not exactly clear of the need. But then I don't utilize Notes much unless attached to Appointment/Task/Contact.

A day view for Gods sake (not just a copy of the Today screen with the equivelant of free plugins)!

The 'Today' page in AF looks pretty flexible to me. There is the **option** to have various 'theme' elements show here, but by no means are required.

Status filters in calendar view

Nope. Don't see any status *filters*....though sorting by same is available.

A decent priority manager (come on AF, lets at least have A-J and 1-10 if you can't manage A-Z and 1-99. No d&d manager? Never mind)

Yep....A-Z + 1-9 is definitely there. Drag & Drop is available in places within AF, but I don't *think* it's available globally.

Ability to not show undated tasks in TV

Capability doesn't appear to be there in Tasks View.....though it is available elsewhere.

Some space in MV

Guess I'll have to see PI's MV to compare. Though I agree MV is somewhat crowded in AF, I'm not sure what could be done to alleviate the crowding w/o losing functionality.

A decent, configurable search function

Oops, you obviously weren't referring to this for the 'Zoom' thingie mentioned above. But the 'Fusion Find' capability is there. How it compares to the similar function in PI, I guess I'll have to wait and see.

Custom Views.

Every view in AF has customizable options. But if you're looking to create/name/save new views to display in addition to those built in, then I guess not.

Multi level templates.

Templates are certainly available. Not sure what you mean by 'Multi-Level'.

@mail integration (@mail at extra cost)

Well, no. But then if PI *didn't* lead the way here, I would be totally dumbfounded.

Journal syncing (extra cost add on, but not available for AF at all)

I'm not overly fond of the Journaling features in AF, but there are some there. And though the Journal can be exported, it doesn't appear that it can be synced......at least not with desktop Outlook if that's what you mean. A full-featured Journaling app (or add-in) would be a big plus, IMO....wherever it comes from.

Anyway, per your request from a later message, this is my take on the features you thought missing from AF.

CESkins

03-09-2003, 06:57 AM

I have been thinking of doing a feature by feature comparison, but am worried that as soon as I do it it will be out of date, because both products develop at a rapid rate. Also I'm not sure where I'd put it, as I don't have my own website, and if I put it up on the PI forum, it will be seen as biased? I would not want to introduce any opinions into it, just litterally a feature comparrison list.

Sounds like a good idea. Why don't you submit your review to one of the PocPC enthusiast websites/bulletin boards (PocketPC Thoughts, PocketPC Passion, Pocketnow, BrightHand, etc.). I am certain that many of us could benefit from a more objective review of the feature set of both products especially with the many subjective comments/opinions that often seem to populate threads comparing PI and AF. Such a list of features once completed would be easy to update periodically as both products evolve.

Mark R Penn

03-09-2003, 12:07 PM

Hi SassKwatch.

Thanks for going through my list. I think I need to explain some of the PI features I think I'm missing in AF:

Traditional/month ahead MV. This is the choice of choosing to have traditional (ie show whole of current month, from 1st to 31st, regardless of todays date), or month ahead (today is always shown in the first week of the month view, so that the view is taken up by mostly the NEXT 4/5 weeks, so that towards the end of the month you are not just looking at past appointments) Month View. AF has traditional only I think.

Inline MV. Yes both PIMs have the Agenda options you spoke about. Inline MV is an alternative view in MV, also called Fisheye. No preview panel, instead when you click on a day, that day expands so you can see the detail, and the other days contract arround it. This way you can see all days in the month still, and tap from one to the other. This is very intuitive, but you have to see it to understand it!

Zoom is the ability to drag across ANY number of days in MV, in ANY direction, and have that area expand to become, for example, a graphical week, or two day, or next 4 mondays etc, view. You can even zoom to just one day, so you have full screen details for that day.

Notes. In PI4 you can see all of the notes created in the standard notes app. from within PI's alarm notes tab.

The today page in AF looks no diferent to Agenda View set to one day to me - it has todays appointments and tasks. Day view would be a view of today, with time slots. A bit like the day view in the standard PIM, only more powerful. I've got all tyhe functionality of AF's Today tab on my PPC, actually on the today screen, useing free plugins.

Status filters. Soemtimes I only want to see my "Busy", or my "Out of Office" apppointments in the calendar views.

A-Z. Today for example I have 14 "A" prioruty tasks. As far as I can see, AF limits me to A-E only, and 1-5 only. PI has A-Z and 1-99. PI also has a specific tool that allows you to drag and drop tasks into priority order.

Undated tasks. Some people use undated tasks as sort of "pending tasks" - they don't want to see them until they are ready to give them a due date, but do want to record them.

MV space. Eacg day in PI's MV is roughly twice the size of AF's (no, I have not counted the pixels!). This is because the preview pane only shows up when you need it, not all the time like in AF.

Find. Yes Fusion find is there, but it's functions seam to be limited to just a text string and item type. No date ranges, or filters etc.

Custom Views. Yes I meant the ability to set up a view, and then save it. I don't want my Private contacts displayed in the same way as my Business ones for example. So, I just save and then call up a custom view for each.

Yep templates are there, but not multi level. PI now has a simple macro function in templates that allows you to apply them over the top of each other (for the subject text). Again you need to see it to understand it!!!

@mail integration. You're right of course, PI damn well aught to be ahead here! But e-mail integration IS something that might be relevant to someone trying to decide between AF and PI.

Journal sync. By buying an add on, you can syncronise the PI journal with Outlook.

Cheers,

Mark

FalinnUK

03-09-2003, 12:12 PM

I've been a long time user of PI so upgraded to ver 4, however i seem to have lost the bar to the right of the screen (That allows you to switch between the different views and move to other days etc), i've looked in the options at the bottom, scoured the options pages- but cant find how to turn it back on, i've even reinstalled.

Is this a bug, or am i just being crap?!

Matt

p.s Using a HP 5450, PI installed in main memory

Video11

03-09-2003, 12:19 PM

I've been a long time user of PI so upgraded to ver 4, however i seem to have lost the bar to the right of the screen (That allows you to switch between the different views and move to other days etc), ....

I think you are talking about the Calendar View. Simply double-tap the Calendar tab near the bottom of the screen. That should return the sidebar. Double-tap again to expand the calendar to take up the entire screen. It's PIs way of using the full screen for your calendar. Works in every calendar view: Agenda View, Day View, Week View and Month View.

Cheers.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai

03-09-2003, 01:01 PM

Undated tasks. Some people use undated tasks as sort of "pending tasks" - they don't want to see them until they are ready to give them a due date, but do want to record them.
I must be missing something. I'm running AF v4.92. I'm looking at the settings for both the Today View and the Agenda View and both have checkboxes for undated tasks... uncheck it and they don't display.

In any case, you do make a point. The only difference I see between TV and AV is that TV shows the entire task (text gets wrapped on the screen) whereas AV trucates the task to the first line.

I'm one of those folks who has both PI and AF registered (though not the latest v4 PI). I've literally flipped-flopped from one to the next about a half dozen times over the past couple of years. I just recently, as of a couple days ago, switched back from PI v3.46 to AF v4.92, mainly b/c of the speed difference (quite noticeable in my case).

I'll have to give v4 a test drive.

Mark R Penn

03-09-2003, 06:12 PM

I don't think you can do it in Task View though - which is where it's most useful.

And it might be worth while trying PI4.0 if speed is the only issue. Most people are reporting that it's a lot quicker.

PJE

03-09-2003, 08:26 PM

Both PI and AF are good programs. I use PI (4.0) and tried the demo of the latest AF 4.92 last night. I must say I prefer PI, but I wouldn't stop anyone using AF if they perfered it. As most people don't use 100% of the capabilites of any software package it is down to which they feel most comfortable with... for me that's PI.

I must admit there is a learning curve with PI. In the fisheye month view for example I was always amazed that you couldn't just press-and-hold anyware within the expanded date box to add a new appointment... But found out last night that it does allow it on the top line.. very strange. There are numberous things like this in PI which makes it a little odd for the first few uses - and the same for things in AF - but once you get used to it you don't think to press anywhere else other than the top line.

My 2c

PJE

ctmagnus

03-09-2003, 11:16 PM

Journal sync. By buying an add on, you can syncronise the PI journal with Outlook.

Does it sync both ways, or just from the PPC to the desktop?

Mark R Penn

03-09-2003, 11:21 PM

I don't use it, so I've not tested it, but yes, I'm pretty sure it does.

SassKwatch

03-10-2003, 03:29 AM

I'm going to just hit on a few items of personal interest this time around....

Traditional/month ahead MV. This is the choice of choosing to have traditional (ie show whole of current month.....or month ahead (today is always shown in the first week of the month view....AF has traditional only I think.

For very heavy PIM users, yes that would be a plus. And no, it doesn't appear to be in AF.

Inline MV......Inline MV is an alternative view in MV, also called Fisheye. No preview panel, instead when you click on a day, that day expands so you can see the detail, and the other days contract arround it.

That does sound interesting......as do your later comments about the space in MV. It does sound as though PI has a significant advantage in MV.

Zoom is the ability to drag across ANY number of days in MV, in ANY direction, and have that area expand to become, for example, a graphical week, or two day, or next 4 mondays etc, view.

Blech! I HATE those graphical views! Be gone with the durn things, I say. :) Week View in AF is about the only one I never visit. Just too much info attempting to be presented in too little space. If I need that kind of detail, I utilize Agenda View (which I leave set to a 31 day display).

But obviously they must be popular with quite a number of folks as both developers choose to include them.

The today page in AF looks no diferent to Agenda View set to one day to me - it has todays appointments and tasks. Day view would be a view of today, with time slots.

Yeah, I can see some value in that if one needs to get a quick read on open time slots during their day. Though I would think you're tipping into serious 'meeting junkie' status with that need....in which case you have my sympathies. :)

The 'Today' page in AF gets utilized only marginally more often than Week View by me. Have Dashboard loaded to get the equivalent look.

A-Z. Today for example I have 14 "A" prioruty tasks. As far as I can see, AF limits me to A-E only, and 1-5 only.

My copy of AF 4.92 definitely has A-Z and 1-9. In this case, I'm not sure 'more is better'. I mean, myGawd mon', do you *REALLY* need almost 2600 different options to prioritize your work?!? You don't need PI....or AF, for that matter. You need a new job! Jeez, if I had that kinda need, I'd just visit the local plastic surgeon and see if he couldn't surgically implant my pda into my forearm!

MV space. Eacg day in PI's MV is roughly twice the size of AF's ......the preview pane only shows up when you need it, not all the time like in AF.

Yep, as mentioned above, I like the sound of that.

All in all, I really think the biggest hurdle both developers face is not their own programming ability or creativity...but rather Pocket Outlook itself. Unless/until it is capable of handling *TRUE* 'sub' tasks, we're going to have to take our choice of these semi-workarounds. True sub-tasks and *MUCH* more robust Journaling capabilities. But I would think it unlikely Pocket Outlook would get those type features until it's desktop counterpart does. So, I won't be holding my breath waiting on either.