Software returns & guarantees.. I need to vent.

[bjornkeizers]

Hi all.

Yesterday, I was in a local computer store; looking around for some games. I picked up an expansion pack for The Sims, and I figured I'd get a copy of TC's Ghost Recon as well. Now, my specs for that last one were OK, but still.. you never know how it's gonna run. I hadn't seen a review of it either, but I figured.. what the hey.it was E 14,99..

OK, so I grab those two out of the rack. I should tell you up front that these are in a special plastic anti theft casing, and sealed as well [so the CD case was not opened, like in most toy stores/music stores/games stores where they open the cases and only put the empty case in the rack.]

So, I grab those two games, make my way to the register where I had to wait ten minutes before someone, finally, reluctantly, rang up my purchases. [good store help is hard to find these days, that's why I prefer to shop online and avoid those dumbasses alltogether]

OK, so I asked him about their return policy: And yes, I could return the software within two weeks, provided it was still sealed.

This pisses me off.

If I buy a watch, cellphone, radio, diamond ring, desk chair, dvd player, car, joystick, HP Jornada, etc. I get at least a one year warrenty and two-week return. Don't like it? Return it in two weeks. Doesn't work after that? Guarantee!

How is it that when I buy a $15 cheap plastic watch, I get a one year warrenty, but when I buy for hundreds of dollars worth of software, I have absolutely *NONE* As soon as I crack the seal, I can't return it. I can't install it and test it without cracking the seal. So in theory, you can *never, ever* return software. So I proceeded to tell him this, and asked him: how many returns do you get? His response? Close to none. NO **** SHERLOCK!

God. What is it with these software companys? I can understand if software has a code.. but If I wanted to steal software, there are ways around that that are actually easier then buying the software and returning it... but as a result, I have no guarantee whatsoever. If this game didn't work [like I had with the recent SimCity 4 release], I cannot return it. E 50 down the drain!!! [luckily, in that case I got it to work, no thanks to EA]

Yugh. Sorry about the rant guys, I just needed to vent my frustration.

[Pony99CA]

If I buy a watch, cellphone, radio, diamond ring, desk chair, dvd player, car, joystick, HP Jornada, etc. I get at least a one year warrenty and two-week return. Don't like it? Return it in two weeks. Doesn't work after that? Guarantee!

How is it that when I buy a $15 cheap plastic watch, I get a one year warrenty, but when I buy for hundreds of dollars worth of software, I have absolutely *NONE* As soon as I crack the seal, I can't return it.

Ummm, because you can't copy a watch, cellphone, radio, diamond ring, desk chair, DVD player, car, joystick, HP Jornada, etc. and return the original. :roll:

All intellectual property that is easily copied (at least here in the States) is like that. You can't return CDs, DVDs, VHS tapes or software if it's opened. You can exchange a defective product for another copy, but you can't get a refund.

Basically, it's up to you to do the research to see if the software will work before you open it (notice that I didn't say "before you buy it"). No, I don't like it either, but, because of people abusing the system, retailers and manufacturers had to do this.

Steve

[bjornkeizers]

There are ways around copying.. It's a matter of principles here: If I want to steal software, I will. If I want to own a copy, I'll *buy it*

OK. I understand the issue of copying.. and I don't like it either. But why do they have to treat all of us nice consumers like criminals? Thats not fair. I can't lend out books I own because of stupid encryptions. OK. That makes kind of sense. But if I change device and can't read it? Or the company goes belly-up?

My point is, sure companys are allowed to take action to prevent a certain amount of illegal activitys, but by not allowing me to return defective software, or software not working as advertized, they're taking away my rights as a consumer.

And that pisses me off.

[Eitel]

My point is, sure companys are allowed to take action to prevent a certain amount of illegal activitys, but by not allowing me to return defective software, or software not working as advertized, they're taking away my rights as a consumer.


They are. What tells them that I didn't bought the software, made a copy of it and the key and then return it? Nothing. Now, if the software IS defective, they will replace it for another copy of the same game. If the game didn't ran on your computer because you didn't have the minimun requirements, well, that is your fault. Those are printed on the outside of the box.

[JvanEkris]

Download services like handango offer refunds for products that did not satisfy your needs. If you don't like it, return it. Very good policy. You have to fill in some paperwork, but that's necessary i'm affraid.

Jaap

[WyattEarp]

Well, this is the world in we live. If it's not that it's some outrageous restocking fee for returned items. Companies really know how to get your money.

[acronym]

I'm amazed there aren't any consumer groups going after these "licenses"
I guess the software industry has way too much money (money=influence)

I especially love the vendors that put the license on the software install disk. when you open the disk you agree to the enclosed software license.

[vincentsiaw]

once i got program that doesnt work for my PPC, i download it from handango, so i send them email telling them i'm not satisfied, and they return me my money that's why i like buy software from handango.

[bjornkeizers]

I especially love the vendors that put the license on the software install disk. when you open the disk you agree to the enclosed software license.

Exactly! That is exacly what I told my father this morning. The license is on the disk, to get to the disk you have to open it. Opening is agreeing to the license agreement, which you haven't read because you had to open it but you agreed to it which was impossible since you couldn't read it.

Yeah, makes pefect sense huh?

This is like.. having a binding contract, which you haven't seen and haven't signed. How can that happen? Is that even legal? In theory, they could do whatever they want! How can you justify this? Especially in an age of "product activation BS, you have to be made aware of the rights as a consumer [you don't have any, but i'd like to be told that anyway]

Right now, you have no rights *whatsover* NONE!

[bjornkeizers]

If the game didn't ran on your computer because you didn't have the minimun requirements, well, that is your fault. Those are printed on the outside of the box.

Oh now you *know* that's not how this thing works. There is no guarantee it will run, even if you have the specs. And if it runs, it might not have all the features it says it does, or the features might now work.

OK, example.

Recently, I bought a copy of Sim City 4; which is full of bugs. Even though my computer more then meets the minimum requirements to run it, I could not get it to work with my video card [which also met specs] Only after having tinkered with the .cfg's myself I got it to work, no thanks to EA's tech support.

Now, I finally got it to run. But, where are all those cool skyscrapers they promised? Or internet play? they aren't there. Even though THEY TOLD US IT WOULD BE IN THERE WHEN THE DAMN THING SHIPPED!

So the game doesn't work properly, nor does it have the features that were advertized. But I have no guarantee to fall back on. And I can't return it either. I'm stuck. Let's say.. if your new TV will only show you CNN and doesn't have a remote control with it, even though it was specifically listed as a feature; would you accept that? No. You'd return it.

[Janak Parekh]

I especially love the vendors that put the license on the software install disk. when you open the disk you agree to the enclosed software license.Exactly! That is exacly what I told my father this morning. The license is on the disk, to get to the disk you have to open it. Opening is agreeing to the license agreement, which you haven't read because you had to open it but you agreed to it which was impossible since you couldn't read it.
The problem is, it takes a fairly expensive lawsuit to challenge "unfair" practices like this. I did report on one woman (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8596&highlight=lawsuit) suing a firm for the shrink-wrap license problem. Returns will probably be harder, because of companies' tendencies to shout "piracy!" whenever someone complains. Sigh.

--janak

[smashcasi]

The "agreeing to the license before you can see the license" is probably crossing a few lines, though I doubt too many people will care enough to take action against it. Any company that puts something improper in an EULA will likely face a massive PR backlash and as a result I imagine most users feel safe having never read them. I myself could have promised my soul and all of my worldly possessions to a half dozen different companies without even knowing it.

However, I'd disagree with suggestion that the return policy is a terrible evil thing that must be vanquished at all costs. There are programs out there with giant, smiley-faced buttons that will produce exact duplicates of the software you buy. Furthermore, most anti-piracy measures are a joke or a source of annoyance for users.

There are many ways to research games before buying them. Often companies devote time and money to offering demo versions, sites like gamerankings.com (http://www.gamerankings.com) can give you a cross-section of opinions, and you may even have a business nearby that allows you to rent the game before putting down your hard-earned money.

It may be an unfortunate truth, but piracy in the digital world is easier than ever and this is a simple way for companies to protect themselves. If you have a truly legitimate problem or complaint, I'd suggest taking it up with the company directly rather than the retailer. If they won't back up their own product, that's a completely different story.