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View Full Version : Sendo Sues Microsoft


Janak Parekh
12-23-2002, 09:42 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.com.com/2100-1033-978687.html?tag=fd_top' target='_blank'>http://news.com.com/2100-1033-97868...html?tag=fd_top</a><br /><br /></div>Sendo alleges that Microsoft took some proprietary work Sendo did on top of the MS Smartphone reference platform and gave it to other vendors who then released a very Sendo-like solution; in particular, the article cites the HTC/Orange SPV which came out a few days before <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37906">Sendo cancelled the release of the z100</a>.<br /><br />This may finally explain why Sendo wanted out of the partnership. I always felt the <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4676">discussion we had</a> never seemed to explain the suddenness of Sendo's move. Whether it's true or not remains to be seen, however; as the article mentions, the Sendo-MS relationship was rocky for some time amid Sendo's apparent skepticism of the MS platform.<br /><br />Thanks to the million people who submitted this story...

pt
12-23-2002, 10:07 PM
i'm really glad the first smartphone out is the orange spv. i think it's way better than any of the phones i saw from sendo.

cheers,
pt

Jason Dunn
12-23-2002, 10:25 PM
i'm really glad the first smartphone out is the orange spv. i think it's way better than any of the phones i saw from sendo.

I agree! I haven't seen the SPV yet, but anything has to be better than the Sendo. I never got around to doing a front-page post about this, but the Sendo phone was a piece of junk (sorry Sendo!). The unit I had was an engineering sample, but I've never seen such a poorly designed phone. It took too much force to press the buttons, they were mushy, the screen had strange black lines running vertically, and it simply felt cheap.

It's ironic - pretty much everyone who wrote about the beta Sendo units kept saying "Oh, the final one will be better" - and in hindsight, the Orange unit came out faster and better than anything Sendo could do.

kennyg
12-23-2002, 10:51 PM
The SPV is a better phone, but I still wouldn't call the z100 junk.

The only things I can complain about the z100 phone were the screen and the button press issues, which like you, I hoped would be resolved in future version. It is much lighter than the Sendo (lithum-ply battery instead of lithum-ion) but doesn't last quite as long as the SPV.

But I still have think the buttons on the SPV are too small, not enough room to put the "space" or "shift" key symbols so I find myself entering text more slowly.

T-Will
12-23-2002, 11:11 PM
Exactly what features is the law suit about?

Janak Parekh
12-23-2002, 11:11 PM
I've read about 3 articles on the topic and haven't seen any elaboration. If someone knows, post it here and I'll update the post.

--janak

Master O'Mayhem
12-23-2002, 11:30 PM
Sendio sucked... and BTW if you didnt order the developer kit in the first week, you would have never seen it. BTW i still havenet gotten reimbursed for the 2 dev kits i ordered :(

someppcuser
12-24-2002, 01:01 AM
How typical of MS (:evil: ), they've let Sendo study the market, do the beta testing and suddenly went to HTC with all the data and told them to make a great phone.

That must have been a great disappointement for Sendo.

PlayAgain?
12-24-2002, 01:20 AM
How typical of MS (:evil: ), they've let Sendo study the market, do the beta testing and suddenly went to HTC with all the data and told them to make a great phone.

That must have been a great disappointement for Sendo.

That's what happens when you do business with Microsoft - they embrace you and then come in for the kill.

I can't see them (Sendo) recovering, this sounds like a last ditch gamble at getting some money in because I can't imagine anybody wanting to take Microsoft to court unless its the only option left. And what with Sendo being such a small operation, I don't fancy their chances at all.

Another one bites the dust :roll:

whitey
12-24-2002, 01:30 AM
I was just thinking today after i saw the spv in the store that this will be a cool xmas present for myself and a little brother for my 3970. Shame it doesn't have bluetooth. I'm getting it anyway....
merry xmas to all...

someppcuser
12-24-2002, 02:08 AM
I wonder why the news about MS trying to buy Macromedia isn't on the front page yet.
If you can't do better buy the competition. And the judges said that they are a nice competitive company?

Who's next..Adobe?

I would have loved to have more choice than just one MS smartphone. The SPV is too immature.

12-24-2002, 02:37 AM
Its my belief that Sendo were simply out of their league. Sendo is a small UK mobile phone manufacturer who, prior to the z100, were literally unknown in the mobile industry. In fact, even with the notoriety provided by the z100, the vast majority of even the UK population remain unaware of Sendo's existence - especially given that its impossible to purchase their products from any of the major UK retailers (Carphone Warehouse, The Link, Vodafone Retail, etc).

About 2 years ago, I recall watching Sendo demonstrating a prototype for the first time at a trade show...during which the phone locked up and refused to restart. Two years later, the phone didn't seem much stabler as anyone who's used a developer/preview model would probably attest to! I've had access to quite a few different pre-production mobiles in my time, having been involved in various sectors of the mobile telco industry, but the z100's i've encountered were simply as far from stability as i've seen in a device. To be fair, this is understandable to an extent given the z100's increased complexity but, at the time of the London SPV launch, there were still a number of seemingly randomly-occuring critical issues outstanding on the latest firmware including the phone permanently freezing up, failing to connect, screen blanking out, gprs not working, unable to make/receive calls, etc etc. I can honestly say that i never did see a correctly working z100 in the end (although i believe there are still a few models that function without too many problems)

BTW, from what i've heard regarding the legal dispute, Sendo claims that MS deliberately entered the partnership with the intent of acquiring Sendo's proprietary technology & hardware, and also to capitalise on Sendo's relationships with networks/carriers. Microsoft allegedly provided details on the z100 hardware and technology to HTC, allowing them to bring their SPV smartphone to market faster. MS are also accused of abusing Sendo's contacts with networks (i.e Orange in this case) so as to conduct a direct relationship with them in order to arrange distribution of a rival smartphone i.e the HTC Spv.

It could be argued that Sendo are simply too inexperienced and incapable of even bringing a high-end cellphone to market, let alone a next-generation smartphone. Which does contrast with HTC, who have managed to ship around 2million various devices of the 4.1million mobile devices exported from Taiwanese OEMs. And if the HTC Spv is indeed based on Sendo's technology, doesn't it seem quite interesting they managed to actually produce a working smartphone from it, in a much shorter period....?

Still, it is a shame about the z100 - there were some positive aspects about it, like its ARM9 @125mhz is noticeably faster than the Texas Instruments OMAP 710 cpu @120mhz in the HTC Spv. Oh well!

mookie123
12-24-2002, 06:15 AM
I think Microsoft can't play traditionally like other phone maker, so they try to enter via upstart phone maker. observe how they recruit Neonode, HTC, and of course Sendo. It would be interesting to see how Microsoft will play in the phone field.

Also, what happen to HP? they have smarphone program certainly.

Charles Pickrell
12-24-2002, 06:26 AM
That's what happens when you do business with Microsoft - they embrace you and then come in for the kill.



In situations like this you can also substitute Oracle for Microsoft. It is not like Microsoft is the only company playing this game you know. Besides, we don't know if the claims have any facts behind them yet.

ericdo
12-24-2002, 10:32 AM
Chaps - There have been a lot of comments on the quality of Sendo's phone in the earlier posts in this thread. I think it is very unfair to speculate on the quality when only pre-production phones were available.

For any small company there is going to be a huge learning curve, possibly a big lesson for then is not to shift too many pre-production models (generating negative comments), although I understand fully how important it is for a small company to generate some 'hype'.

.... the vast majority of even the UK population remain unaware of Sendo's existence - especially given that its impossible to purchase their products from any of the major UK retailers (Carphone Warehouse, The Link, Vodafone Retail, etc). ...

Sendo pulled the phone before it actually went to market.

I believe that Sendo were incredibly close to launching the phone. The phone was listed in the Carphone Warehouse magazine as coming soon. Additionally the January 2003 Edition of Personal Computer World reviewed the z100 and the SPV in a joint review. Both phones got 5 stars. Overall comment on the Z100 was "Offers the same features as the Orange, but the Z100 is faster and easier to use. This comes at and extra cost though." The Sendo was listed at £199 and the SPV at £170

Sorry ... could not find online links to the reviews

My personal bet is that Sendo expected to be months ahead of anyone else to market the phone and were really taken by surprise when the SPV got launched. Possibly a little naive?

Mores the pity... would love to have seen some competition at launch time...


Eric

kennyg
12-24-2002, 05:14 PM
I agree they would have eventually made a quite decent phone, I truely had very few problems with the phone I had until it locked up hard on the day they annouced they wouldn't be producing it (conincedence?).

But it was delayed over an entire year and how could HTC, who has a lot of experince in handheld devices, not catch up? I think it's sour grapes and them trying to get more captial before they fall off the planet entirely. It's not like Nokia, Sony and others aren't already running into the same problems and working with the formfactors as Sendo.

Jason Dunn
12-24-2002, 05:20 PM
How typical of MS (:evil: ), they've let Sendo study the market, do the beta testing and suddenly went to HTC with all the data and told them to make a great phone.

That must have been a great disappointement for Sendo.

And how typical of anti-MS people like yourself to find them guilty before any facts are known. :roll: Why not wait until we learn more about this before deciding Microsoft is guilty? Suing Microsoft is an international technology pasttime - in a dead industry, sue the company with a few billion on the bank and hope you get lucky...

Sendo was a small player with very little experience (I had never heard of them prior to the Smartphone hype), they fuzted around for a couple of years hyping their product, and in the end they choked and delivered nothing. I didn't mourn their loss from the Smartphone group - it's very apparent that the combination of HTC and Orange was a much more fruitful partnership.

12-24-2002, 06:09 PM
.... the vast majority of even the UK population remain unaware of Sendo's existence - especially given that its impossible to purchase their products from any of the major UK retailers (Carphone Warehouse, The Link, Vodafone Retail, etc). ...
Sendo pulled the phone before it actually went to market.


I wasn't talking about the z100 - Sendo make other phone models. Yet it is almost impossible to purchase them in the UK, from any of the major UK retailers.


Suing Microsoft is an international technology pasttime - in a dead industry, sue the company with a few billion on the bank and hope you get lucky...

I'd agree with that. I'd be much more inclined to believe that HTC, with their considerable experience in making handheld devices (not just WinCE based), managed to add another product to their lineup on their own accord rather than believing that Sendo, who have acheived very little in the telco industry, were the brains behind the SPV's technology.

Besides, even if this lawsuit has some grounding, I'd still find it hard to believe that Sendo decided to abandon the z100 purely on the basis to the SPV sharing some of its features. Several years of R&D wasted, several £million wasted on their flagship phone which was apparently almost production-ready (and bear in mind that they're a small company so its typically extremely hard to survive after something like this).

Philip Colmer
01-06-2003, 10:10 AM
I wasn't talking about the z100 - Sendo make other phone models. Yet it is almost impossible to purchase them in the UK, from any of the major UK retailers.


I believe that, in the main, Sendo create designs for other companies/network operators to sell as their own handset.

One exception that I can find is the Sendo S200, which is available as a Virgin Mobile handset in the UK.

If you look at their news archive web page (http://www.sendo.co.uk/news/news_archive.asp), you will see announcements of a few products in other countries and locations, such as the Netherlands, Portugal, Taiwan, Italy, Singapore & Greece.

--Philip

Philip Colmer
01-06-2003, 10:13 AM
I've read about 3 articles on the topic and haven't seen any elaboration. If someone knows, post it here and I'll update the post.

--janak

There is some information available on The Register at http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/28724.html.

--Philip

Janak Parekh
01-06-2003, 04:49 PM
There is some information available on The Register at http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/28724.html.
And, of course, that's why we made the front-page update (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=61590). :)

--janak

Philip Colmer
01-06-2003, 05:11 PM
There is some information available on The Register at http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/28724.html.
And, of course, that's why we made the front-page update (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=61590). :)


Yeeeesss ... some 3 3/4 hours after I posted this link :wink:

I was only following your instructions to post details to the topic :)

--Philip

Janak Parekh
01-06-2003, 05:36 PM
Yeeeesss ... some 3 3/4 hours after I posted this link :wink:

I was only following your instructions to post details to the topic :)
Thanks ;) We had it queued up already though.

--janak