Gasp! Is the music industry starting to listen?

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/3777666.htm">http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/3777666.htm</a><br /><br />"<a href="http://www.pressplay.com/">Pressplay</a> has removed the limitations that stifled growth of the paid service, introducing a new version that allows subscribers to stream or download music to their heart's content and buy tracks they can burn on CDs or transfer to portable players." Hallelujah! It seems they are figuring out that we will not rent music nor will we pay a dime for content we can only listen to on the PC it was downloaded to. <br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20020801-pressplay.gif" /><br />"Pressplay subscribers, who until now have had to wade through a confusing array of offers, will pay a flat monthly fee of $9.95 to download or stream as much music as they like. Songs are protected from being burned to CD or transferred. For slightly more -- $17.95 a month -- subscribers get 10 songs, which they permanently own and can burn to CD or transfer to portable devices, such as the popular Rio player, CreativeLabs' Nomad line and Compaq's iPAQ, that support the Windows Media Player format."<br /><br />$17.95 per month. That is $1.80 per song, or $21.60 for a CD's worth of 12 songs. Well, their pricing isn't there yet but at least they get the model. I don't know about you but I am not willing to pay $215 a year for this regardless of how many songs you get. There are just not 120 good songs that come out every year in my opinion, and I'd still buy the CD of artists I like. The other pitfall is the library. "Its collection of 100,000 downloadable tracks is still limited to Universal and Sony artists, and music licensed by a third major label, EMI Recorded Music, and various independents." Still, this is clearly a move in the right direction.<br /><br />Hmmm.... they have <a href="http://www.mazzystar.nu/">Mazzy Star</a>. Can't be all bad. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" />

[entropy1980]

Get to $.50 a song and we can talk.... until then I will be hanging out on Morpheus or Kazaa. :?

[unxmully]

It might be a bit more attractive if they offered a variety of formats instead of just 128k WMA.

I suppose that's needed for the rights management :?

[danmanmayer]

Now this is definately a step in the right direction. But i would really only pay 10 a month fo my music. $10 bucks a month with 10 songs for burning and portable devices. Then I could also download and stream anything i wanted on my own system. That wouldn't be to bad. I mean i am sure i spend $120 a year on music anyways. So Who thinks there will be a deal like this in the next2 years? Also it has to have ALL music like napster did. I might actually be willing to support the service before they had all music if i really liked the most of what they had. But until something can offer having every peice of music people could think of like napster did.

[Ed Hansberry]

It might be a bit more attractive if they offered a variety of formats instead of just 128k WMA.
But put it on a CD and then re-rip it on your desired format, right? You may lose some quality vs a 500k MP3, but I wouldn't know the diff.

[heyday]

I also imagine you could use TotalRecorder to make copies of your songs if you really wanted to get them off your computer.

heyday

[mookie123]

1 good song with 20,987 filler.

[brntcrsp]

I really enjoyed it when I was using Emusic's (www.emusic.com) service. $15/ month with a 3 month contract, and unlimited access to their entire library of mp3s. True downloading always took a bit of time, but I managed to find things that were very close to my tastes and also introduced me to new artists. Plus the artist gets a cut of every track you download. You have full liscence to do whatever you wish with the mp3s, save for giving them away. Also for $15 that's as much as a single new CD, and I regularly download 2-4 CDs worth of music per month. You might not always find exactly what you're looking for, but if you're adventurous it's worth looking into.

[possmann]

Yup - if they get the price down to that of about a buck a song... well then they could be making money hand over fist. Considering the markup on a taditional CD in the music industry is close to 900%... this out to fly nicely for all parties concerned.

emusic - does that allow you to "own" the song after you download it - or are you screwed to the PC you downloaded it to?

[brntcrsp]

emusic - does that allow you to "own" the song after you download it - or are you screwed to the PC you downloaded it to?

you own the song. You can burn it to CD and transfer it between devices, anything you wish.

For further information about their service check out their help files: http://help.emusic.com/general/

also check out their rights (http://emusic.com/about/rights2.html) documentation.

[PhatCohiba]

Anyone actually use this service? Even as a trial?

I'd be interested in feedback.

I agree, it would be more valuable if it included other publishers, but if this is the best model maybe we can make them successfull. Then they would lead the others.

I'd expect these publishers would offer some sort of cross-licensing arrangement to allow more artists to be reached dispite their origional contract.

hmm...

[pendragn]

You may lose some quality vs a 500k MP3, but I wouldn't know the diff.

I've got a Kenwood Music Keg (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/excelon/excelonKeg.jsp) and a decent sound system for my Jeep and I can definitely tell the difference between say 128k MP3s and 192k MP3s. To sound decent, I'm ripping all of mine at VBR. I'd jump on emusic in half a second if I could get MP3s that I could stand to listen to in my Jeep.

tk

[brntcrsp]

I'd jump on emusic in half a second if I could get MP3s that I could stand to listen to in my Jeep.

tk

For my untrained and cheap ears I've never had a problem with 128k. And for this I feel blessed.

[pendragn]

For my untrained and cheap ears I've never had a problem with 128k. And for this I feel blessed.

I encoded all my stuff at 128k for the longest time because on my computer I couldn't tell the difference. When I started playing MP3s through my home stereo and now my Jeep I can tell the difference. I guess $15 sound cards and $30 speakers just don't have the same fidelity as my home or car stereo. :)

tk

[Jason Dunn]

I see some real hope here for the future of digital music. 128 kbps WMA is roughly equivalent to 192 kbps MP3, so this is a good level of quality. The pricing is a little out of whack, but not too much - $1.80 per song today might be $1 per song after Christmas...

I think I'll sign up!

[Jason Dunn]

:evil: AUGH!!! :evil:

"This service is currently only available for residents of the U.S."

:snipersmile:

@#@#$&*#)#*@#@ing PressPlay! I hate it when companies offer a service that's purely digital, available anywhere in the world, yet restrict it to the US. :evil:

:2gunfire:

If you're outside the US and you'd like to see them offer service to you, send an email to [email protected] and ask why they're making it US-only.

[jmulder]

Everybody keeps talking about $1.80/song, but I don't think you're taking the service into account.

While this may be splitting hairs, the service is 9.95/month, essentially giving you internet radio and the ability to play back songs you've downloaded to your hard drive while you are a member.

The additional $8.00/month allows you to "buy" up to 10 songs/month, which gives a priceof $0.80/song (provided there are 10 songs worth having that month)

It's still a far cry from the $0.50 that someone else mentioned, but when you take into account the fact you are paying for service as well, the price becomes more reasonable. Unless of course you find the service portion worthless.

I'm still not sure I'll sign up, but with the unlimited streaming and downloads, at least I'm thinking about it.

-Jim

[Jason Dunn]

While this may be splitting hairs, the service is 9.95/month, essentially giving you internet radio and the ability to play back songs you've downloaded to your hard drive while you are a member.

Agreed - and that's why I was willing to sign up. I'm really curious as to why they don't allow Canadians to sign up...

[Jason Dunn]

Hmm - so it would seem that I have no one buy my fellow countrymen to blame. Damn our overly legalistic society! :evil:

"We agree with you SO much but there is a legal issue in that the Canadian songwriter societies have not come to a resolution about the payment method in the digital world. We want to launch in Canada in the WORST way and we have a signed deal with Sympatico Lycos which we had hoped to launch in April...but alas....without a publishing agreement, we cannot launch. We want to provide you with the music you want. We will contact you when this has been resolved. I would expect that many legal services will launch by year end in Canada and we hope you check us out.

Best,
pressplay"

[Brad Adrian]

See, I don't have as much a problem with the pricing as some of you. The main reason I don't buy more CDs is simply because on each one there may be only a couple of songs I really like. I've always been willing to pay more per CD if it means that the CD has nothing but songs I really want. I'd pay $20 for a CD with 10 hand-picked songs.

Now, I don't buy enough music to justify a monthly subscription, but for me, the per-song price ain't bad.

[Dave Conger]

Right now I only fund the music industry when their is something that is creative and different....and often this can be found in unsigned artists. I would like to see artists focus more on their songs then getting enough together for a whole CD (I know I am generalizing artists, but many are releases a CD with only a couple good tracks...in my opinion). You would get more people buying digital music if you sold a new song a month for a year then them all at one. $1.50 for recently release, $1 after the first or second month, $.75 for two years old....all at 192 or 128kbps....that would be killer.

[unxmully]

It might be a bit more attractive if they offered a variety of formats instead of just 128k WMA.
But put it on a CD and then re-rip it on your desired format, right? You may lose some quality vs a 500k MP3, but I wouldn't know the diff.

Silly question, cos I'm sure it's been answered many times, but how do I convert a WMA on a cd to an MP3? :?

[Marc Zimmermann]

[...] send an email to [email protected] and ask why they're making it US-only.

It's similar to why DVDs have region codes. The distribution rights are not in the hands of a single company in all countries. The companies who open their catalog to PressPlay likely don't have the right to the same stuff outside the USA.

[don dre]

Not being an anti-capitalist, I don't ususally take this tack. But 17.95/mo seems a lot of money to pay for a ltd selection. I mean, as things are, you have to buy several of these subscriptions. I'd be interested in hearing how the internet radio is, but I've never found a replacement for www.live365.com which is now 4.95/mo. At any rate, t should offer flexibility over formats, I still prefer mp3's at 192k+ iver WMA. I do not trust MS enough to have my library in their format. Just because they offer these things now, doesn;t mean they always will. the nature of the RIAA is such that they would try to get us all on paid subscripition svcs., pay for legislation to outlaw trading while momentum is down, and then increase prices and restrict use. I mean, with the distribution cost savings of online sales, the markup at $1 per song still has to be 900%. I mean, we can all put songs on the internet for a cost approaching zero. At any rate, I'll stick with winmx and the likes for now. Though it's nice to see that the recording industry ins't all bully, though they are still trying to control distribution to maintain profits. On a side not, the music and movie industry, inlike other industries, makes huge profits but none of it makes its way to the owners, of shareholders.

[MobiliT]

I was going to sign up for the PressPlay trial, but with no mobile downloads included, i.e. permanent ownable music files, I've decided to decline their promotion.

And 64kbps wma is fine for moi.

Emusic.com, eh? :)

[Marcel_Proust]

:evil: AUGH!!! :evil:

"This service is currently only available for residents of the U.S."

:snipersmile:

@#@#$&*#)#*@#@ing PressPlay! I hate it when companies offer a service that's purely digital, available anywhere in the world, yet restrict it to the US. :evil:

:2gunfire:

If you're outside the US and you'd like to see them offer service to you, send an email to [email protected] and ask why they're making it US-only.

Isn't it frustrating to fill in the forms, and then find a zip code only box. I can kind of understand Pressplay - they have to negotiate release rights which vary from country to country, and these services are still in trial modes. But what about stores that won't ship to Canada? What is that about? You can't put a few more stamps on the thing and charge a little more? I guess this problem doesn't rank with softwood lumber though. I don't think you are missing that much though Jason. Isn't it simpler to find albums you might like through something like Kazaa, buy the album, and rip through a high quality 192 VBR Lame encoder. The idea isn't bad. MP3.com had a neat idea a while back: You could buy the CD, but download the MP3s before it arrived. Only in the US though and at select stores.

[Ed Hansberry]

Isn't it frustrating to fill in the forms, and then find a zip code only box. I can kind of understand Pressplay - they have to negotiate release rights which vary from country to country, and these services are still in trial modes. But what about stores that won't ship to Canada? What is that about? You can't put a few more stamps on the thing and charge a little more?
It isn't that simple. There are tax forms that must be kept up with (GST Tax) and most accounting systems in America don't have that ability, so it either becomes added person to manually keep up with it, added cost for software programming or a new sales package. Then there is the paperwork that must accompany shipments across the border. I know that applies to truckloads as i've dealt with it. I don't know how that applies to FedEx packages though.

Your socialist tax policies cause your own problems! :wink:

[PhatCohiba]

I've signed up through Yahoo (no credit card) and the service reminds me of the golden age of Napster. You can search and play (via stream) anything in their collection quickly an easily.

If like browsing for music and playing things before buying cds then PressPlay can be fun.

I only do a minimal amount of offline playing, but since I have an IPAQ, I don't need the unsecured downloads, I should be able to enable Rights Management on it and listen there as well. (UPDATE: No coping to IPAQ... )



I've been waiting for a service to allow me to do legally what I like doing with Napster, etcl. For that PressPlay is worth a trial.

2 Beefs:

1) Need more artists. I don't want 3 of these services to get all music.
2) By using the Digital Rights Managment, I feel a little like I'm giving in to the Dark Side.

-John

[Marcel_Proust]

Isn't it frustrating to fill in the forms, and then find a zip code only box. I can kind of understand Pressplay - they have to negotiate release rights which vary from country to country, and these services are still in trial modes. But what about stores that won't ship to Canada? What is that about? You can't put a few more stamps on the thing and charge a little more?
It isn't that simple. There are tax forms that must be kept up with (GST Tax) and most accounting systems in America don't have that ability, so it either becomes added person to manually keep up with it, added cost for software programming or a new sales package. Then there is the paperwork that must accompany shipments across the border. I know that applies to truckloads as i've dealt with it. I don't know how that applies to FedEx packages though.

Your socialist tax policies cause your own problems! :wink:

Point taken.
However our tax policies create free health care for everyone (something that is coming under attack), and a better social safety net. Oh, and a 63 cent dollar - something that helps Canadian gadget addicts control their appetites.
OK. But back to a pocketpc discussion, I understand next week, for only $9.95 a month, WorldRon, will be launching a new wireless high speed 384 kbs unlimited access streaming audio/video on demand service for all pocketpcs. Just enter the name of the song or movie, and it will play crystal clear on your pocketpc. Please contact me for investment opportunities.

[Marcel_Proust]

oh - one more thing - emusic - offers some offbeat repertoire, has no restrictions, and is available to Canadians now. they have a free trial.

[jsjxyz]

I like native MP3 format that emusic.com offers, it is just like an ebook with not copy protection at all. And look at its FAQ:
How does EMusic protect against piracy? $9.90/month unlimited downloads.
Very simple -- we trust our customers. We believe that if downloadable music is presented in an inexpensive and flexible way, most consumers will do the right thing. EMusic does not include any type of Digital Rights Management or complex security rules in our music files -- just pure, open MP3. In addition, we provide our customers with extremely flexible rights for the music they purchase and download, allowing them to easily transfer their music files to portable MP3 players and burn them on to compact discs using CD-R.
"For more details, please read our MP3 Users' Rights & Responsibilities page."
http://emusic.com/about/rights2.html

[possmann]

Good point about the 128/mp3 - I looked at emusic and it looks pretty cool - in concept. I wish they would give you the capabilty to download in either 128mp3 or 128WMA modes - perhaps even higher bit rates for those of us with dicerning ears :wink:

Like you, I enjoy being surrounded with sound of high quality...