Treo Ships

[Tycho Morgan]

<a href="http://www.handspring.com">http://www.handspring.com</a><br /><br />I supose the fact that almost third of my posts to date have been Palm related isn't doing anything for my first impression. I promise I’ll dig up more Pocket PC related stuff soon. :-) <br /><br /><img src="http://www.handspring.com/company/presskit/pc_180contactLIST_web.jpg" /><br /><br />Handspring has started, or will start, shipping the Treo, their new cell phone Palm combo. Some have proclaimed that the Treo is a failure; I on the other hand think it’s a fine use of such an operating system and if they weren’t charging Pocket PC prices for these things, they might actually sell. I think the ‘everything-in-one-package’ idea is a fair one (not original, and not for me) and the integrated keyboard is a good step for Palm, but none of those features really strike me as Earth shattering. <br /><br />As I <a href="#">said</a> on Tech Musings a while ago in relation to another <a href="http://www.palm.com/products/palmi705/">brilliant</a> and well reasoned Palm product: “I assume [Handspring] has determined that there is an audience that this device will appeal to and is targeting that audience; but quite clearly I am not in any way a part of that audience.”

[jake]

I am so sick of my iPAQ PPC and half-baked Active Sync—I am returning to Palm. I intend to buy a Handspring Treo. One thing I initially liked about the PPC was that it had all these cool things it could do. In retrospect, I realize I wasted far, far, far more time showing other people what a PPC could do than I spent actually using or benefiting from those features.

I noticed that the only thing I consistently used the PPC for was the four main things that Palm does better: Calendar, Tasks, To-do and Memo’s. I am thoroughly upset with Microsoft for their lack of real innovation. They could have done a much better Job. ActiveSync is a nightmare and a joke!!

I intend to keep my iPaq for a while and leave it in the cradle on my desktop all the time and simply keep it on the screen for Snoopsoft’s Dashboard so I can always see what the next couple of day’s appointments and tasks look like.

Am I a turncoat? I think not. I was an early adopter of PPC as a matter of fact I came up with the name PocketPCPassion for Dale Coffing’s web site. I am just so disappointed in Microsoft and their lack of innovation and reliability. In the PPC arena Microsoft has been about Symbolism over Substance.

Also PPC’s are a joke when it comes to size. They are way too big and heavy! To draw an analogy, I would say that the PPC is like a 1974 Cadillac Eldorado (huge but inefficient engine and suspension), and the Handspring Treo is like a 2002 Lexus LS430 (Fast, smooth, dependable and effective). The Treo is amazing! It is the size of a deck of cards and has a phone, and email built into it. That is real innovation!!!

I say PocketPCPaperweight! What do you think?

P.S. I Love PocketPC Thoughts. It is my favorite web site and I frequent it more than any other site. My thoughts are simply that Microsoft has dropped the ball.

[Big Honkin' Deal]

I say PocketPCPaperweight! What do you think?


It looks like a nice device.... if it had a better screen I would consider it as well.

The problem I have with all Palm devices is that after 20 years of sitting in front of computer screens, my eye site just does not allow me to see anything on those, except in ideal light conditions....

You comments regarding Microsoft have some merit though. Right now I'm po'ed myself because I can not send any e-mail with my 3870 and nobody seems to acknowledge that there is a problem with PPC 2002

Frank

[jake]

From what I have heard, the Treo has an extremely easy to read screen. And if you change the typeface to the largest size it makes it much easiier to read. I also heard a rumor that when Handspring releases it color Treo it will use a 320x320 OLED Screen. (Organic Light Emiting Diod.) Asuming this is true, it will look better than than any current PPC and have much better battery performance. Handspring also developed an all-new, larger, standard typeface for the Treo to impove readability.

If it was not for Jeff Hawkings--the CEO of Handspring and inventor of the Palm Pilot--there would be no PocketPC. You don't think he plans to just sit around and let Microsoft eat his lunch for him. Do you?

--------------------------------------------------
The problem I have with all Palm devices is that after 20 years of sitting in front of computer screens, my eye site just does not allow me to see anything on those, except in ideal light conditions....

[riverbruce]

Jake,

My sentiments exactly. After upgrading my Ipaq 3650 to 2002 and then downgrading to 1.87 I continue to realize what you said. I will order and try out the Treo as well.

Bruce

[rene_canlas]

Jake,

I'm happy that you've finally found the device that matches your lifestyle :) I hope the treo works out for you. However, like cars, some people like to just use their pdas and some people like to tinker with theirs. I belong to the latter and i am perfectly content with my Jornada 568. I agree that activesync is hard to use, but for someone who's been using windows for the past several years, it's nothing new. I've actually reached a comfort level with Activesync where i can pretty much set it up blindfolded :) I've been able to sync using serial, usb, irda, ethernet, and when my tdk usb bluetooth adapter comes, i'll try that too.

And the pocketpc's have steadily grown smaller and lighter with each iteration. Anyway, for me size is a small price to pay for the flexibility my Jornada gives me.

Lots of luck with the Treo, dude! Post a review when you get it :)

[Kemas]

Okay, I really want to know who in the world really thinks they will carry a PDA phone 24/7. I carry my phone where ever I go all day and all night. Not that I always answer it, only when I want to; but I have it on me. It's small, why not. My iPAQ is great, but why in Hades would I take it everywhere? Until they make a PDA that works with my eye glasses or contacts and is the size of say, my wrist watch; I just won't carry it every where. I didn't even take my Palm V everywhere. I don't need it all of the time and far less than a phone.

I like the idea of having some of the data from my PDA on my phone and if it can do it on the fly with ease even better. But those of you that think you will carry one of this things 24/7; I am pretty sure you are just not thinking it through. Why? It isn't cool. Won't wow the masses and will fill up your pocket or your belt with something that will just bog you down. They are just too big when you factor in they have to have a decent screen (iPAQ size) to be of any real use.

Don't get me wrong, I carry my PDA a great deal of the time. But I don't carry it all of the time. Until the major US mobile carriers start using SIM chips in all their phone models then I just don't see this happening. Before you all say GSM, yep great system; thinking of taking it for a spin myself. Do remember though, that even all the GSM companies road maps show them ending at Wide CDMA and that standard still doesn't have plans for SIM Cards. PDA phones are gimmicks to get us, the early adopters, to spend money on yet another PDA. BTW--Not one has been successful on the market in the states.

[riverbruce]

Okay, I really want to know who in the world really thinks they will carry a PDA phone 24/7. I carry my phone where ever I go all day and all night. Not that I always answer it, only when I want to; but I have it on me. It's small, why not. My iPAQ is great, but why in Hades would I take it everywhere? Until they make a PDA that works with my eye glasses or contacts and is the size of say, my wrist watch; I just won't carry it every where. I didn't even take my Palm V everywhere. I don't need it all of the time and far less than a phone.

I carry my PDA and Voicestream phone everywhere I go. Like you, I do not always answer it. My memory is not all that keen and having the PDA to serve up reminders is extremely helpful. As a pastor I'm always having to jot down things. I even take my phone and PDA sea kayaking. Sometime I'm using the PDA to play tunes while paddling and other times to read e-books around the campfire at night after a days paddle. The phone provides a measure of safety as I often paddle solo.

I like the idea of having some of the data from my PDA on my phone and if it can do it on the fly with ease even better. But those of you that think you will carry one of this things 24/7; I am pretty sure you are just not thinking it through. Why? It isn't cool. Won't wow the masses and will fill up your pocket or your belt with something that will just bog you down. They are just too big when you factor in they have to have a decent screen (iPAQ size) to be of any real use.

That's exactly the point. It's not cool... just very practical to have it all in one device. And while others in this category have not been successful, this one's got success written all over it IMHO. I just think they got it right, certainly much closer than anyone else. Fact is, I, like Jake, spent too much time trying to "wow the masses" and have finally settled done to root needs and issues. I'm also looking forward to being able to use Pocket Quicken which will really be a helpful addition.

Don't get me wrong, I carry my PDA a great deal of the time. But I don't carry it all of the time. Until the major US mobile carriers start using SIM chips in all their phone models then I just don't see this happening. Before you all say GSM, yep great system; thinking of taking it for a spin myself. Do remember though, that even all the GSM companies road maps show them ending at Wide CDMA and that standard still doesn't have plans for SIM Cards. PDA phones are gimmicks to get us, the early adopters, to spend money on yet another PDA. BTW--Not one has been successful on the market in the states.

GSM has worked great for me for the last 2 years. The Treo is also upgradeable to 2.5 G and should be available mid-year. Perhaps I'll offset the cost of the Treo by selling my Ipaq and accessories... perhaps.

Anyway, I've just completed my order and am having it express shipped to me. I should have it in 3-5 days and will post a brief review after a week or so of use. Don't get me wrong, I really like my Ipaq, even considering the quirkiness of the 2002 upgrade. I just feel that the Treo will offer me more of what I do most. We'll see. I too love PocketPCThoughts and really missed it when it was down. I check it multiple times a day. Thanks Jason for your labor of love in this.

Bruce www.riverontheweb.com

[jimg72]

I've went from Palm to CE back to Palm and now own an iPaq but I'm seriously considering a Treo. I love everything my iPaq does but need the core four(inbox, contacts, calendar, & tasks) and a phone more than I need to carry both around. The price is the only thing keeping me from switching at the moment. And waiting for the color version :D

[TMAN]

I too have been a long time user of Windows CE devices since the Velo 1 days. I took a trip to Circuit City the other day and looked at the Sony CLIE T615. That is one beautiful device. I am ashamed to admit I was pretty close to buying it.

I have an Ericsson T68, iPAQ 3870, modified Dual sleeve with, 800 MB PC Card, and Socket WLAN Card. I was asking myself if I needed all of this all the time but I am not sure I can give it up.

[riverbruce]

Tman.... I do hope you lay all that stuff aside when you hop on the scales. :lol:

[entropy1980]

Wow a lot of people thinking of jumping ship....to all of you I say wait to see the Microsoft Smartphone at least....for me I am waiting to see everyone's cards before i make another $350-600 dollar commitment. There's no use in me rush and buy a Treo only to have Microsoft or someone else release something better only a few months later. Case in point... I rushed to buy a Sega Dreamcast.... anyone notice they aren't exactly making them anymore....point is just because they are first out of the gate with a truly integrated smartphone design doesn't neccesarily make it the be all and end all of mobile phone and PDA combos.

[ARW]

I struggle with the whole issue of too many devices as well. I love my HP 567, but don't like to drag it along at all times. I'm hoping that the solution that will work for me is a msft smartphone, with my HP brought along when I need it's added capabilities.

With the Treo out I'm hoping that maybe someone will release some info on availability of Microsoft's smartphone solution. It's been talked about for a couple of years, but no recent news. Is it dead? Anybody have any news?

[JohnnyFlash]

I am so sick of my iPAQ PPC and half-baked Active Sync—I am returning to Palm. I intend to buy a Handspring Treo.


Jake, could you please elaborate what are your problems with ActiveSync?

I am ActiveSync-ing over USB and over Wireless LAN - both without ANY problems. I am synching only this what I want and never experienced problems.

I was using Palm and still have one but I use it as alarm clock, for anything else Palm is too primitive. I don't understand you people complaining about PocketPC 2002... Palm OS is so primitive - it does not have even any file system!!!

And I personally don't think that combining phone and PDA in one is good idea. My mobile phone has MP3 and professional dictaphone built in and I would not like to put it all into one device: whether it would be Palm OS, Symbian or other OS. But for all other "fanatics" I would recommend to go for one of mobile phones with built-in PocketPC OS, like 02 xda (http://www.mmo2.com/docs/services/xda_details.html ) or PDA from Fujitsu-Siemens. Buying Palm OS with mobile phone is a waste of resources.

Jake, again, please elaborate what exactly are your problems with ActiveSync?

[Kemas]

I was reading the specs on this "great" phone and two things strike me as interesting:
1. You have to get either the keyboard version or the handwriting version; they don't come combinded and using the full screen for handwriting via hacks out there, doesn't work well at all.
2. Data connectivity is not yet available and will be a future upgrade. That is the GPRS solution.

I don't know, I just think this won't sell but for a few months then hit critical mass and die. Six months selling for like $199 as the mobile phone companies try and get rid of them. Sad thing is about then Verizon and Sprint will get their shipments and hte party will be over since CDMA comes second here in the states.

Kemas

[Marc Zimmermann]

Okay, I really want to know who in the world really thinks they will carry a PDA phone 24/7.

Well, I'm pretty close to. Most of the time, I'm taking the Trium Mondo Pocket PC 2000 with integrated GSM cell phone with me. I hate taking two devices with me and this combo device is giving me the best of both worlds for me while it doesn't excel in both the cell phone and PDA departments.

[Rob Alexander]

I just can't see wanting a phone and PDA combined. Perhaps I'm too inflexible, but I want a very tiny standalone phone and a PDA with a decent sized color screen. Those two seem mutually exclusive to me. I would love it if the tiny phone and the PDA worked together via bluetooth or something similar, and even better if they shared a common basic PDA set of info so that I could see my appointments or tasks on either one. But, like Kemas, I just don't want a big clunky phone.

The first thing that strikes me about this particular product is how often I'm talking on my mobile phone and looking something up in my iPaq at the same time. If the Treo is built on the Palm OS, then isn't it single tasking? And if it's single tasking, then can you use the phone and the PDA at the same time, or do you have to do one or the other? If the latter, what would be the point?

Anyway, I'd be interested in reading what some of you guys think of it after getting it. It's not for me, but it's an interesting product.

[riverbruce]

Rob,

One of the things that I liked about the Treo is that it is the first PDA/Phone that wasn't "clunky." Also, while not being multi-tasking you can be on the phone and operating the PDA software at the same time on the Treo, otherwise I wouldn't have even considered it. It's the size of a deck of cards.

Understand that I'm not absolutely sold on the Treo. I just believe strongly enough that it will be what I'm looking for to risk the investment to find out. I will seek to be gut level honest in my assesment of it when it comes and I've used it for a week.

In the mean time I'm ordering one of the 2100 ma replacement batteries for my 3650 in anticipation of hanging on to it.

Bruce

Up the Creek... Try the River!
www.riverontheweb.com

[Janak Parekh]

It's not clear that this will be a bigger success than the Kyocera QCP-6035 and the Samsung SPH-I300. The latter is really cool and is also very small.

Me, tho, I'm going to stick with my PPC2002-upgraded H3650. I am not giving up handwriting recognition and SimCity 2000! :D

--bdj

[Kre]

The Treo is an interesting product. But Im shocked to hear that we would have to choose between HR and thumb type. Thats not too smart IMO.

Ive always liked the idea of a convergent device, myself. But I do understand the idea of just grabbing the cell phone. I think both pda phone and smartphone will both be necessary in the marketplace. Some will want one, while some will want the other. But I get tired of dragging around a bunch of devices. So the more convergence that can take place, the better, for me anyway. But I like the idea of taking it even further. Ive always and still do desire to see the day where a single device will be able to take the place of a pda, cell phone, gps, two way radio, thumb type pager, digital camera, fm radio, and even a pocket tv. This is a long way off, but I find value in all of those things, and I would much rather carry one device that could do it all, and do it well, than seven or eight devices in my pocket.

For me, the next step for ppc would be integrating cellular. But one thing I can see that ppc manufacturers will need to offer, is a choice between GSM and CDMA. Some will want the GSM option, but after researching more, to me, GSM GPRS is just far too expensive right now for pda`s and smartphones. Until wireless companies offer nationwide unlimited data plans and include no roaming and no long distance, very few people will take advantage of this service. I saw AT&T`s GSM GPRS plans, and theyre ridiculous. You end up paying sixty cents a minute extra for roaming, fifteen cents a minute for long distance, and you only get one stupid little MB of data included in the plan each month, each additional KB running an extra twenty cents! Even normal voice cellular runs up to forty cents a minute over and above the included minutes on one of these plans. Anybody would be foolish signing up for this. Youd be bloody broke in a week with all of these extra fees every minute! Even call forwarding and three way calling costs extra on these plans. For AT&T to realistically get consumers to widely adopt this, consumers need to know that they can connect and not worry constantly about how much data theyre transfering, and all these other stupid fees. Nationwide, unlimited data, no roaming, no long distance, and all network features included will be the only way to go for most. AT&T is clearly hoping that the early adopters will pay a huge chunk for this new infrastructure by robbing them left and right with these insane fees. Verizon does a much better job with their costs than this. So clearly, CDMA will need to be an option for those wishing to actually USE a pda phone. Everyone else on GSM will need to be rich.

[riverbruce]

One of my plans to avoid a lot of roaming charges when traveling is to use my Psion infra red modem from motel rooms, etc.. It's what I've used with my 3650 up until now. I've really gotten used to using my PDA for keeping up with e-mail, newsgroups, Avantgo, etc. when on the road. I'll do the same thing with the Treo. There have been times though that I used my Nokia 8290 in combo with my Ipaq and just ate the roaming charges. It really didn't take that long to check my e-mail. By the way, Voicestream in my area has upgraded their equipment and I'm now getting a full 14,400 speed through my 8290. Not great, but not bad and certainly better than the old 9600.