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View Full Version : PlaysForMaybe? Clever, But Does It Really Matter?


Jason Dunn
11-09-2006, 03:00 AM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=364' target='_blank'>http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=364</a><br /><br /></div><em>&quot;I thought things couldn't get any worse for Microsoft after the Vista licensing fiasco, the WGA fiasco, and the XBox 360 fiasco but this one takes the cake. I'll even bet that the folks at Apple are ROTFL at this latest Microsoft misstep. Microsoft's own Channel 9 blog has coined the term &quot;Plays for Maybe&quot; (via David Berlind's blog) in a brutally honest way asking: &quot;I really don't get how the biggest software co. in the world - sets up a huge network of partners to trumpet their own technology: &quot;plays for sure&quot; - then when it itself enters the market - refuses to use it.&quot;&quot;</em><br /><br /><img border="1" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/zt/2006/zune-survey-results-nov8.png" alt="" /><br /><br />A whole whack of blogs are up in arms about the fact that the Zune doesn't support PlaysForSure music. Meaning that if you have a large investment in, say, MSN Music downloads, they won't work on your Zune. This is old news to those of us that have been following the Zune, but evidently everyone else is just realizing it now. I guess what I'm wondering is how much it matters? I don't know a single person, offline or online, that has complained to me about having a huge investment in DRM'd WMA tracks and are ticked off the Zune won't play them. If that's you, speak up and tell me. <br /><br />I have this strong sense that there's more smoke than fire with this issue, and people are getting more angry about the idea of Microsoft breaking the PlaysForSure concept than actual people with &quot;trapped&quot; music collections. The sad part about DRM'd music is that it's vulnerable to this sort of thing. Anyone with a significant investment in iTunes music (of which there are many more people) will face exactly the same issue if they ever break away. If you really do have a bunch of Windows Media files that are DRM'd, download and run <a href="http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=114916" target="_blank">Fairuse4WM</a>. It works amazingly well, and will free your music from the clutches of DRM.

Darius Wey
11-09-2006, 01:59 PM
If you really do have a bunch of Windows Media files that are DRM'd, download and run Fairuse4WM (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=114916).

Or burn and re-rip. I'm willing to bet that 9 times out of 10, the average Joe would not be able to tell the difference in quality.

Aaron Roma
11-09-2006, 02:23 PM
I put this in the same bucket as the "not supporting Macs" issue. As far as bottom line goes, not that big a deal. It's just give bloggers and anti-MS people something to scream about and it creates negative publicity that MS doesn't need. What I would worry about more is the uninformed drones at BestBuy/WalMart/CicuitCity/etc telling people not to buy the Zune because it won't even play MS's own music, or something similar. (I remember when I purchased my first iPod, the clerk was explaining to me how stupid I was for purchasing an iPod, because it doesn't support MP3s or my CDs, and the only way I was going to get music on it was to purchase the tracks from Apple.)

Dyvim
11-09-2006, 02:42 PM
What I would worry about more is the uninformed drones at BestBuy/WalMart/CicuitCity/etc telling people not to buy the Zune because it won't even play MS's own music, or something similar.

I can also see the uninformed drones promising customers that sure, of course, it handles PlaysForSure, of course it would - it's all MS. How many times have you had salespeople promise you things that turned out not to be true (anything to make the sale)?

Aaron Roma
11-09-2006, 04:42 PM
I can also see the uninformed drones promising customers that sure, of course, it handles PlaysForSure, of course it would - it's all MS. How many times have you had salespeople promise you things that turned out not to be true (anything to make the sale)?

Very true. Even though in the end, I think not supporting PlayForSure is only a small roadbump for Zune, personally I think it was a little short sighted to at the very least not include some type of conversion / upgrade / re-download of PlayForSure content.

Janak Parekh
11-09-2006, 06:03 PM
I guess what I'm wondering is how much it matters?...I have this strong sense that there's more smoke than fire with this issue, and people are getting more angry about the idea of Microsoft breaking the PlaysForSure concept than actual people with "trapped" music collections. The sad part about DRM'd music is that it's vulnerable to this sort of thing. That's exactly the point, and here's my beef with it: Microsoft advertised that the PlaysForSure/WMP ecosystem was the way of breaking out of the terrible iPod lockin. Now they're essentially saying "Sorry, we were just kidding all along. PlaysForSure actually doesn't play-for-sure."

That idea really ticks me off. Who's to say that if Zune doesn't take off, that they won't shut down the Zune Marketplace and kill the service like they did with MSN Music? The thing about the iPod is that there's enough critical mass that this is extremely unlikely to happen with Apple in the foreseeable future. I don't like FairPlay that much either, and in fact I avoid it as much as possible, but the one interesting thing is that FairPlay is not a subscription service. Even if the iPod store dies, I'll still have all my content. And with PFS, if Rhapsody were to die, at least I could use Napster or something else for subscription content. Not so for the Zune (unless I buy all of the tracks I listen to... and then the Zune Marketplace becomes even more of an iTMS clone).

Bottom-line: I'd have to wait and see if Zune takes off enough to feel comfortable to trust Microsoft to sticking with it in the long haul. Taking Microsoft's word for it doesn't work, because they've essentially violated it with working outside the PFS ecosystem. (And, now, it's time to change the name PlaysForSure. Change it back to Windows Media DRM or something. At least that's more accurate.)

--janak

Janak Parekh
11-09-2006, 06:14 PM
I put this in the same bucket as the "not supporting Macs" issue. As far as bottom line goes, not that big a deal.
The sad part is, you're probably right. Despite the reasons I gave in my previous post, I doubt the mass public will notice. I'm wondering if Microsoft ditched PFS because of some fundamental limitations in its system, and decided to start with a new slate, realizing that PFS subscriptions and tracks are still relatively small. Still irritates me, though. ;)

--janak

Jason Dunn
11-09-2006, 09:31 PM
I don't like FairPlay that much either, and in fact I avoid it as much as possible, but the one interesting thing is that FairPlay is not a subscription service. Even if the iPod store dies, I'll still have all my content.

Don't kid yourself, the risk of losing your content is lower because iTunes is so big, but if it does go away, how will you authenticate new Macs? My understanding is that a Fairplay DRM'd track won't play on a Mac unless it's been authorized, and that means talking to a big DRM server somewhere...and if that server vanishes, so does your music.

Jason Dunn
11-09-2006, 09:36 PM
And, now, it's time to change the name PlaysForSure. Change it back to Windows Media DRM or something. At least that's more accurate.

But it DOES still work! PlaysForSure tracks will still work on any PlaysForSure device from Creative, iRiver, Samsung, and others. It is unfortunate that the Zune team isn't going the same way as the Windows Media team, but that's kind of what that group does...just look at the Xbox. But I don't think in the grand scheme of things it impacts much in the eyes of the mainstream consumer (who mostly buy iPods anyway).

I am quite curious as to WHY the Zune isn't PlaysForSure...hmm. That will make a good front page rant. :D

Janak Parekh
11-09-2006, 11:33 PM
Don't kid yourself, the risk of losing your content is lower because iTunes is so big, but if it does go away, how will you authenticate new Macs? Well, here's my point -- all Apple needs to authorize. If the store goes away but the authorization servers are up, I'm still okay. With subscription content, if the store goes away, the ability to download subscription content is gone, and whatever subscriptions you've had are out the window... and without PFS, there isn't an alternative way to load subscription content on the Zune.

The key point here is that one of the main Zune advantages over the iPod is the ability to play subscription content. I love that idea. But it's all predicated, now, on the presence of the Zune Marketplace. I don't have an alternative, and my existing Rhapsody subscription becomes useless if I buy a Zune, and I have to trust Microsoft to keep it up. I understand that they're in for the long haul... on the other hand, that's what I thought they were doing with PFS.

But it DOES still work! PlaysForSure tracks will still work on any PlaysForSure device from Creative, iRiver, Samsung, and others. Oh, I understand that. But it goes against the whole marketing spin towards PFS when it first came out. "Don't lock yourself into the horrible Apple monopoly! Buy PFS! It will be forward compatible with Windows Media devices coming out from now on! Vote for freedom!"

And, yet, now we have Microsoft's own flagship media device, and it doesn't play PFS. No, they didn't contractually violate what they promised. But I find it extremely disappointing nevertheless. You know what I would have liked? Zune as a flagship player that did support PFS, opening the gateway to both Zune and other device success. That would have been a model that might have encouraged me to transition away from the closed iPod ecosystem. Now... what's my choice? Apple's closed model, Microsoft's closed model, or everyone else. This just made the situation worse, not better. :confused:

And then take the position of the Sandisks, the Samsungs, etc. Microsoft is essentially now a competitor to them, and worse: Microsoft is locking in consumers to a product that will essentially convince the user never to adopt a PFS solution. I haven't looked closely at the Rhapsody-Sandisk deal, but I think it's entirely possible the PFS market will now fragment into a ton of closed solutions. In this case, all the small closed solutions will die, leaving just Apple and Microsoft. Bah!

I am quite curious as to WHY the Zune isn't PlaysForSure...hmm. That will make a good front page rant. :D Yes. :) I'd love to hear from MS if there was a technical reason involved, or if it was strictly business. If it's the latter, I'm not thrilled about it. I've heard the "we tried PFS, but it failed", but I'm not convinced. If Microsoft sold and marketed an awesome flagship PFS player with a nicely-customized PFS store, I think it could do comparably to the closed Zune model. That's my two cents, at least -- unless, as I mentioned, there was a technical reason.

--janak