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Old 09-08-2008, 12:00 AM
Rocco Augusto
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Default Microsoft's WinMobile Team: Big on futures, slow on deliverables

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='' target='_blank'></a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"With Google&rsquo;s Chrome browser announcement and revelation of plans by Microsoft to roll out an iPhone app store competitor, all eyes should be on Windows Mobile... Google had no plans to develop its own browser, Eric Schmidt and Co. are doing just that... From a July 2008 speech at the Microsoft partner conference by Andy Lees 'Well, of course, consumers want to use the devices to be able to do things like to access the Internet. That&rsquo;s why we&rsquo;re putting Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows Mobile where we&rsquo;ll complete that in the next six months, and that&rsquo;s so that you get the full PC experience on a mobile device. That&rsquo;s not a cut-down browser; it&rsquo;s the full IE 6.'... SkyMarket, SkyLine and SkyBox are all in their early/startup phases. Windows Mobile 7 is expected to be released to carriers in late 2008/early 2009, which means the first WinMo 7 phones &mdash; with an IE 6 browser and maybe a new app marketplace &mdash; should hit later on in 2009. Is Microsoft falling too far behind to stay competitive in the mobile space, clearing the way for Google&rsquo;s Chrome to come in and clean Redmond&rsquo;s clock?"</em></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><img src="" /></p><p><br />You would think with all of the security flaws that surround Internet Explorer 6 that they would just trash the source code by now. Even if all the security flaws&nbsp; weren't an issue the simple fact that Web Developers have to jump through hoops to get their code to function correctly on IE6 would be enough to make them make a more standards compliant browser for their mobile offerings. You would think that after finding out about this in July I would have time to have calmed down and not be so disgusted by the information, but no, I'm still horribly upset about it.</p><p>We are now reaching the point with the release of the Beta of Internet Explorer 8 where web developers, like myself, were starting to jump for joy at the chance to drop Internet Explorer 6 support. Internet Explorer 6 is nothing less than a nightmare. Hopefully Microsoft realizes their folly before the release of Windows Mobile 7 because including a browser that is over 5 years old on your devices when the competition are using top of the line WebKit browsers is a definite shot in the foot for Microsoft.</p>
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:44 AM
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Originally Posted by Rocco Augusto View Post
<em>That&rsquo;s why we&rsquo;re putting Internet Explorer 6.0 on Windows Mobile where we&rsquo;ll complete that in the next six months, and that&rsquo;s so that you get the full PC experience on a mobile device. That&rsquo;s not a cut-down browser; it&rsquo;s the full IE 6.'...
Wow, given the performance of the current "cut-down browser", how slow will the full IE6 be??
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:50 AM
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Yes, Microsoft has really missed the boat with the browser market in the mobile device space. They are now so far behind, I think the best solution would be for them to license Opera and include that as the default browser in WM7. IE6 is NOT going to cut it.

Microsoft's has been caught with their pants down in the mobile device space on more than one occasion in this market, and still seem to be moving slower than a tortoise. They still don't seem to get that these devices are more than just companions to peoples desktop. Yes, we want fast and easy synchronization of data (something they haven't managed outside the Exchange environment), but the devices need to be self-sufficient and provide a full software experience.

It will be interesting to see the Android experience and see if Google has a better grip on this space than Microsoft, despite Microsoft's 10 year head start.
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:27 AM
Rocco Augusto
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Originally Posted by mboone View Post
Wow, given the performance of the current "cut-down browser", how slow will the full IE6 be??
Well if you're using Windows Mobile 6.1 then you are already using technology integrated from Internet Explorer 6 and at least on the Smartphone side the browser isn't as snappy as the competition. Maybe moving over to a 'full blown' IE6 browser would be better, but at what cost? Does Microsoft really expect developers to continue making 2 or 3 versions of the same site just to get it to work with their browser? This is why we have standards, so things work throughout all standards complient browsers. Heck even right now when I'm building a site I have to build it for standards compliant browsers, go back in and create a bunch of style hacks to get it formated right in IE7 then go back and create a new set of hacks to get it to work in IE6 and if the site is going to be viewed on a mobile browser I have to go through and format those too. It really doesn't need to be this hard.

If Microsoft wants to put a 'full desktop browser' into their devices as Apple has done with the iPhone (yet I still find myself making iPhone compatible sites, go figure) then wouldn't it make sense to put in the latest and greatest Internet browser instead of one that came out around the turn of the century?
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Old 09-08-2008, 06:15 AM
Ed Hansberry
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I'm not really worried about it. I wonder what percentage of current WinMo 6.1 users will get it? I suspect it is somewhere between 0% and 0.000% if the carriers are responsible for delivering it.

Here is a crazy thought. Think MS will make it avaialble for download on their site? Nah... that's just plain nuts.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:20 AM
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Anything is better than PIE, so the IE6 it is going to be an improvement, especially considering that pretty much the only improvement since it's launch was zoom in WM6.1, but I don't care anyway - I'm using Opera for my browsing, not perfect but good enough. Just like WM is (for now) good enough. Although given how competition is quickly improving and WM is mostly standing still I guess it won't be good enough for long.

In general it's really strange - the way WM/Pocket PC "improved" since 2000 and especially in the last two years when competition really heated up, one can only think that either WM team is completely incompetent or at least complacent or WM as a product is just an ugly stepchild in MS that no one really wants.
I guess it's the second, which is a shame, considering mobile computing is the way of the future, and considering they had years of head start compared to competition. Maybe they need to fail to get a lesson...
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:01 PM
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Unfortunately, I don't see IE 6 going away anytime soon. For some reason, large enterprise IT departments seem to still feel a strange infatuation for continuing to deploy computers with IE6 years after IE7 has been in stable release. My organization just went through a huge tech refresh, replacing a lot of Win 2000 computers with Win XP Service Pack 2 computers with IE6. We'll probably get Vista sometime after Windows 8 goes obsolete.

I have been continuously disappointed with Windows Mobile. The development is incredibly slow. From Win Mobile 2002 to Windows Mobile 5, it seems that the only real benefits are persistent storage and the use of full document formats rather than "Pocket Word" format. I don't see that much benefit in WM6, except that it finally supports html email, so I wouldn't necessarily need to have FlexMail on my device if I upgraded to 6 or 6.1.
Current devices: iPhone 3G. Previous devices: Samsung Epix and 1st gen 32GB iPod Touch BlackJack II, iPaq 6945, iPaq hx4705, Dell Axim x30 high, iPaq 3765.
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:18 PM
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Default Slow is an understatement

We're seeing start ups bring new Webkit based browsers to market in less time than the time between this announcement and when this will be available. And one suspects that this browser will be SLOW and look antique compared to Safari on the iPhone and Chrome on Android.

All of this should not surprise long time PPC users. Microsoft has been very slow to make improvements in the OS and there are a long list of improvements that we've all know for YEARS have been needed that the team at MS seems blind to. Worse, when they do add a feature they do it in imcomplete ways. Add to that the chain of companies that an uopdate has to move through (MS, handset maker, carrier) and as a user you wind up incredibly frustrated.

MS is too big and has too much buraeucracy and is trying to do too many things with WiMo. Apple is leaner and focused. Further, NO ONE at MS seems to get UI. There is this slavish insistence on being Windows 95 on a QVGA device. Doesn't anyone there get it? Speed and ease of use are key.

And can *ANYONE* explain why they won't give us an "exit process", even thought HTC adds it and just about every user who finds out also adds this. Typical MS, putting architectural purity over the user and thinking they are smarter than we are.

I am a PPC user since the fist iPaq, but am now looking at my next phone being Android or an iPhone even though they run on crappy networks (AT&T, T Mobile). I don't want to leave, but why drive a Model T when the Prius is available.
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Old 09-08-2008, 02:57 PM
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Since I don't see a lot of web developers complaining about the current browser on Windows Mobile devices I would not expect them to complain when IE6 comes to Windows Mobile devices. Bot the developers and the users already expect a compromised experience from IE on Windows Mobile. IE6 w/Flash would provide a less compromised experience.

BTW: Has any one here looked at IE6 on Windows CE? I tried to, but since I am running a 64-bit OS the CE emulator won't run on my machine.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:45 PM
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Apple -> WebKit
Nokia -> WebKit
Google -> WebKit
Microsoft -> IE6

I know Microsoft are never going to go with an open source browser engine but IE6 really isn't going to cut it against the competition. WebKit is used in both desktop and mobile browsers. It's being constantly developed, fixed and upgraded. IE6 and it's woeful support for internet standards needs to die.
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