08-29-2008, 01:00 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 716
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Even Critics Give Apple a Pass on iPhone 3G Woes
"Such a string of mishaps and missteps might throw another electronics company into crisis. But of course, Apple Inc. isn't just another electronics company. Even as iPhone griping rages online, it looks like Apple's sterling reputation will emerge untarnished. Baba Shiv, a professor of marketing at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, compares Apple's fan base to Harley-Davidson motorcycle riders who pass over arguably higher-quality Japanese bikes.Shiv said Apple's fans play down negative information to explain their relationship to the brand - and justify spending more for products that may not be better than the competition's. Once that loyalty is formed, "the transgression has to be so egregious for someone to completely change the narrative," Shiv said. 'If something like this had happened to Microsoft, the long-term impact would be much more for Microsoft than for Apple.'" I'm just curious what you all think of this article. Apple and it's beloved iPhone have certainly had their share of mishaps lately. They've had some real problems with MobileMe, 3G, the App store, syncing, freezing, security and so on and yet it seems that no matter what they do, there's a strong loyal crowd that will defend them to the hilt. Yet when Microsoft has issues or flaws with just about anything, forums around the web seem to rip them apart. So after reading the article, do you agree that "Apple's sterling reputation will emerge untarnished?" Do you think there's a bias towards Apple sometimes? Are Apple and MS really on playing fields that are that different or is it just easier to pick on one more than the other?
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iPhone
Tmo Dash
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08-29-2008, 01:49 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 459
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It is very obvious that the Apple evangelists out there - and there are many - are very willing to give their favoured manufacturer the benefit of the doubt when they and others would not do the same for other companies. And I mean 'other companies' - it isn't just Microsoft that gets it in the neck when they get things wrong. However, before the cries of 'unfair behaviour' go up, we need to remember that all these companies can and do aim for pretty much the same people in their sales and marketing strategies. Apple has managed to create a relationship with a large number of its customers which just about everyone else (with the possible exception of Google) can only dream about. Kudos to Apple. Everyone else had the same chances and they blew it. Now Apple - through a series of screw-ups - could lose that relationship, but the others (especially Microsoft) will never, ever create it. Not now. They lost their chance.
I'm not one of the fans. For me a product is a product: It does what I want it to, or it doesn't. If a company consistently produces duds, or fails to support me through the invevitable issues that arise, then I become increasingly less likely to consider their products in the future. But I don't have it in me to love or to hate a company. Apparently though, many other people do and Microsoft has managed to press their 'hate' button whilst Apple has their love. It may be irrational - humans are - but it isn't unfair. Apple have worked hard and carefully to earn the position that they now have and you have to be impressed. Even if, like me, you don't really 'get it.'
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08-29-2008, 02:04 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 22
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It's pretty obvious that a majority of the press is biased towards Apple. Looking at varous websites and forums from around the around I noticed that the hate towards Microsoft isn't caused by the same things. In France for example, it's mainly coming from some form of jealousy towards Bill Gates because he is rich, yeah it may sound stupid but in france if you have money then you are automatically a scumbag. In US it has more to do with the various ad campaigns directed against MS (like the MAC vs PC ads), something that isn't possible in other countries where it is against the law to name or compare your product to your competitors etc. If those ads where run in Europe (which is impossible) Apple would have been fined millions of Euros (especially since they are based on half truth and lies). Then there's the fact that MS has always been poor at marketing their products (some examples lately: photosynth,WWT, Live Mesh Zune , etc), they aren't helping their case. Finally there is viral marketing too. Apple seems to be a champion at it. My accusation are probably unfunded (though I saw a comment made by some ex Apple big wig saying that they did that since early/mid 90s, can't find the link anymore) but it's becoming more and more obvious that Apple is rewarding one way or another lots of editors,press etc (see, engadget,gizmodo,etc) and that a majority of the comments you see in forums etc are made by people paid to praise Apple's products and slang MS every time they do something, be it write or wrong.
EDIT: And unlike Apple, MS under estimated the fact that the more people start using PCs the dumber your average user is (which means the majority). Hence the proliferation of trolls and fanboys on the net these past years. Apple mastered that IMO.
MAK
Last edited by MAK11; 08-29-2008 at 03:14 PM..
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08-29-2008, 03:04 PM
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Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 554
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And don't forget how much impact on a average person makes TV and Movie industry. If you compare movies from earlier 90's to today's, you will see that all the PC's are replaced by MAC, that's of course in the hands of "good" guys. Just watch and pay a little attention to hits such as Bruce Willis "Live free or Die Hard". Shining example of "not so direct" advertising. You have Apple's poster boy from commercials running around saving the world with Nokia and Mac, while Bad Guys work exclusively with PC, even for whatever reason the logo on HazMat van used to kidnap our heroes looks suspiciously like MS Windows logo. Check out early series of "Sex and the City" with the latest all computers are MAC there now. And people want to follow their "heroes", and there's no surprise they go to apple store.
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You create your opportunities by asking for them
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08-29-2008, 03:25 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
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Apple WILL fix their problems, QUICKLY!!!
I've owned PDA's since the handheld PC days when the screens were monochrome, to almost every iPAQ up to the h5550, followed by my current Dell Axim x50v, as they were always very handy for someone who is always away from the office in field management, completely replacing my paper-based DayTimer system. When WM came out with Cingular's 8150, followed by twice trying the Treo 750, as well as Palm's Treo 650, I tried to converge from a BlackBerry & my handy x50v, but WM devices are a real pain to a power user, especially out of the box. We own a small business of 26 Papa John's Pizza restaurants in 3 states. I run one of those state's 13 stores. We never had the exchange server / hosted email service in house, therefor, BlackBerry Web client was awesome in that it was easy & it just worked. When I attempted to switch to W5, 6, & 6.1 devices, each time I received similar email AND syncing errors. I thought I couldn't converge. I kept the Axim in the back pocket & the BB Pearl in the holster. I really like my Pocket Informant (since 2002 sometime), Pocket Quicken 2.5, Laridian's PocketBible, e-Wallet, & ListPro Professional to name a few.
Then came the iPhone 2G about 8 months ago. In one word, EASY. Similar to my BlackBerry but better, it has just worked for 8 months. No need to carry the BlackBerry AND the Axim. The calendar is pretty good. I now have Bible & E-Wallet on the device, with software titles adding daily, granted most are not worth any professional value, but some are. Apple also has the software store figured out, only taking 30% as I understand it, vs. Handango's raping.
Apple has a huge advatange in the way they chose to sell their software / devices DIRECT. This gives them the ability to better fix problems, when they do occur, AND they will occur, no matter the platform you choose to go with.
My best friend upgraded to the new iPhone & is having some problems with reception, but no more than we've both had with the underpowered & low memory Palm Treo 750, etc. that could not take on 2 calls coming within moments of each other. Apple WILL resolve this problem, I believe, with a much BETTER solution & MUCH quicker timeline than Windows Mobile. Question: How long has WM 6.1 been out? It was just announced for AT&T's Tilt last week or so, proving my point exactly. Or what about all of us who felt slighted by the fact our device that we paid $600+ for wasn't even getting the new upgrade?
There are many reasons that MS will always be slower at implementation than Apple from here on, but my point is that Apple WILL fix their issues much sooner than MS will AND the device will work for the masses. Do you guys realize that my mother could pick up the iPhone & set up email & WiFi on it without a manual? I personally was never able to have much of an experience at all with any WM device on WiFi, sometimes couldn't even figure out how to get on the network. I completely understand why the world loves Apple products, as I myself own the iPhome 2G, iPod 60GB Video, & the Shuffle. This is coming from a once die-hard Pocket PC fan who owned Jornada's, iPAQs, Dell's, Palms, etc. Apple is the way for me now.
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08-29-2008, 03:32 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
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It's not a conspiracy against apple!!!
Reading numerous posts like some in this thread, it would appear that many here believe that the media is against Windows Mobile but how many of "us" are really happy with Microsoft's direction & support the past five years? I believe Apple is marketed to the masses which is why they're having so much success, because they work more efficiently for the general public than any WM phone I've ever used.
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08-29-2008, 03:40 PM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7
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I think Apple customers live with some of the early problems knowing that the manufacturer will ultimately make it right. I've had both Microsoft and Apple products, and based on my experience, Apple has a better track record of getting the problems fixed and getting them fixed quickly. I spent decades as a loyal user of Windows and Windows Mobile products assuming that this was as good as it could be. I had high hopes for Vista. Those were dashed when I used it for the first time. I anticipated each release of Windows Mobile only to find the changes mostly cosmetic and way too infrequent. Glaring problems with that OS were often overlooked and made worse by the carriers adding their own under tested changes. We bought an iMac in December 2007 and have never looked back. Now mind you, it wasn't perfect. It would not complete it's setup out of the box. A call to Apple Support solved the problem and the machine has been flawless and a pure joy to use. It's faster and more stable than any PC I've ever used. I've added Time Capsule and Apple TV. As an early adopter, those products had issues, but those issues were resolved quickly through a series of updates for both. Now I have iPhone 3G. Same thing, as an early adopter, it hasn't been perfect. Even with it's imperfections, it far better than the Windows Mobile device it replaced and as with my past experience with Apple, they're updating it and making it better each time. This beats my experience with Microsoft over issues I had with Windows and Windows Mobile. Microsoft let me down. They just didn't listen often enough nor did they respond fast enough. Apple does. They may be secretive and even arrogant at times. But when you use their products, you realize they really do get it. They're not afraid to press the outer edge of the envelope. Products at that outer edge inherently have problems at the start. The measure of a good manufacturer is how they respond to those problems. My experience says Apple is just better at it.
Mark
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08-29-2008, 04:00 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbking
I think Apple customers live with some of the early problems knowing that the manufacturer will ultimately make it right. I've had both Microsoft and Apple products, and based on my experience, Apple has a better track record of getting the problems fixed and getting them fixed quickly.
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I can't agree more with what Mark said. I've used Windows from 3.1 to Vista and for the first time last month, started to use OSX 10.5 Leopard and this thing just blows Vista out of the water in terms of speed and stability. It just comes down to Apple having a better track record of fixing things. With Microsoft, it's always minor enhancements and fixes. Even between major releases, not much change/improvement/innovation (WM2003 -> WM6.1). Very disappointing. I think Apple has managed to take the risk of introducing new features and have the backing and commitment to fix things when they do go wrong.
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08-29-2008, 04:06 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 86
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I ditched WM and got an iPhone. I've gone over the reasons here at length multiple times so there's not much sense in rehashing that. What I will say is that I couldn't have been happier with the iPhone and I couldn't believe what an upgrade this first generation device (for Apple) was over even the most advanced WM phone. Well along came firmware 2.0, 2.0.1, and now 2.0.2. I feel like I've been kicked back into the WM world all over again. My iPhone (2g) is now just as slow and crash prone as a device running WM.
I think Apple has been taking it on the chin pretty good the last couple of months and deservedly so. On the flip side of the coin I can't think of one single thing Microsoft has done or released in the last several years that would warrant praise.
So I think that they both stink. I'm going to let the remaining 14 months or so run out on my contract with AT&T and hopefully by then the second gen Androids will be out. If those turn out to be turkeys as well I'll just have to see whatever is best at the time.
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08-29-2008, 04:25 PM
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Oracle
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 853
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I have very little product loyalty. I'll go with whatever does the job best. Apple is currently filling that bill, but Android or WM7 might very well supplant it.
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