10-10-2005, 11:00 AM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Why Can't I Upgrade My Device?
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/10/06/477999.aspx
"We released Windows Mobile 5 a few months ago and devices are starting to hit the market now. A question I've seen asked in a number of places is, "Why can't I upgrade my existing WM 2003 SE devices to WM5?" The answer is sure to get me a bunch of angry comments from people who abbreviate our name "M$." You can choose to see this as spin from a greedy marketing wonk, or you can see it for what it is--an honest attempt from a developer to explain how this stuff works."
I can certainly understand the frustration on a user's part that the device they paid $500 or more, considerably more in the case of some phone devices, when they learn their device won't be upgraded by their manufacturer. Anyone pay $900 for an iMATE PDA2K? :evil: Yeah, I know. For that particular model their are illegal alternatives, but that isn't the point. I am not going to steal the upgrade, which is what that amounts to.
This blog goes a long way towards explaining the economics of providing upgrades as well as what they plan to do about it with Windows Mobile 5 devices. "In WM5 we spent a lot of time building an infrastructure for enabling updates that anyone can do. We're heading toward a Windows Update sort of experience, where you're using your phone and it suddenly pops up a box that says something like, "An update is available, would you like to have it installed?" Then you just need to select "Yes" and it'll happen for you. How much OEMs and Mobile Operators make use of this infrastructure is up to them, but it's there now. This should solve the "could your grandmother do it?" problem, especially for smaller updates like security fixes."
I hope this works, but the cynical side of me recalls the "XIP Updates" introduced in Pocket PC 2002 that were used for only one or two OS updates and then left for dead.
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10-10-2005, 11:53 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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Re: Why Can't I Upgrade My Device?
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
I hope this works, but the cynical side of me recalls the "XIP Updates" introduced in Pocket PC 2002 that were used for only one or two OS updates and then left for dead.
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Wasn't that because many manufacturers went for a cheaper FlashROM type that wouldn't support XIP updates?
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10-10-2005, 12:40 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 171
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A load of old tosh trying to cover up for poor service
Couple of things, major rant time I'm afraid.
1. I may be wrong but didn't Microsoft mandate much of the hardware for the Pocket PC Platform and isn't the range of hardware much reduced compared to the desktop/laptop world?
On that basis, why is the Windows Mobile team unable to do what their desktop brothers have been doing for years and provide a build which can be installed on any Pocket PC which meets minimum requirements?
I don't see HP spending months reworking parts of Windows to allow it to be installed on their laptops, other than specific drivers, so why is WM5 any different.
2. Microsoft have continually underestimated what people want to do with a Pocket PC. Why does the find not search outside my documents or explorer show dlls? 8O
I want to be able to do everything on a Pocket PC that I can on my Laptop other than things that require huge amounts of storage or CPU - DVD or CD ripping for example. I want a proper browser, decent e-mail client, read Usenet and a whole host of other things. Microsoft on the other hand are still following the Palm "simple is best", or whatever it was, mantra.
And this is just another example.
3. I liked the "it's not just greed comment". So it is greed, but what are the other reasons? Lack of desire to service customers appropriately to protect their investment? My 4700 cost me over �400 new and now HP seem (note the seem, I'm not sure yet) to be reneging on the upgrade deal.
Why is the 4150 not supported for an upgrade? It has similar specs to the new piece of junk HP have shipped, or do they just want to churn people through new devices?
Incompetence? Yes, well perhaps.
I have a pretty strong feeling this will be the last Pocket PC device I own. I'm getting pretty fed up of the whole vendor/Microsoft thing and how I, the owner, get's c**ped on by both :?
Andy
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10-10-2005, 01:28 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 87
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Notice how there is an artificial upgrade cycle kinda built into devices at this point?
My first pocket pc device (true, I entered the game kinda late) was a device running Mobile 2002 and running at 400 Mhz. With no BIS, yet decent RAM, this device wasn't a crown jewel (liked to soft reset) but specification wise, it was ok.
Next device was a 2003 SE device running at 624 Mhz. This was a step up in speed and provided hardware features I wanted. The OS update was nice as well. This device won't be able to upgrade to Mobile 5.
Now, with Mobile 2005 out, are there devices selling that are slower than 624 Mhz? Are there devices selling that are either the same specifications, or worse, than devices that cannot upgrade to Mobile 2005? Heck, are there devices selling that are slower than 400 Mhz? (I know, inaccurate comparison, the original ARM 400 Mhz processors were pretty slow beasts due to low FSB)
The point I am making is that hardware is moving on kinda slow... and to keep people buying new devices, they use the software to drive those sales. Wouldn't a ton more people buy new computers every couple of years if that was the ONLY way to get the newer version of Windows? You have that problem with pocket pc devices.
Considering the low amount of competition in the mobile world (OS wise) and the fact that the competition doesn't specifically want to fix this upgrade issue either, I doubt there will be much innovation here. Want a new OS, prepare to pay dearly for it. However, for consumers like me, unless you offer some snazzy new hardware to go with that OS choice, I won't even be all that tempted. At the end of the day, my device still works just as fine as when I first recieved it and while I would like a Mobile 5 upgrade, it certainly isn't necessary.
Interesting point I would like to add... notice how on the Desktop, there was only 3 phases of incompatibilities? There was the DOS era of drivers (load via autoexec.bat... blah blah blah) followed by the Windows 9x days and then the Windows 2k+ days. In reality, there was around 5 or so years of OS upgrades that a person could take part in (excluding DOS... that was quite a period of time.  ). Meanwhile, on the Windows Mobile side, things have DRAMATICALLY changed with each OS revision (correct me if I am wrong...) and that is just what the end user notices. I bet that on the driver side of things that upgrades can be seen as a nightmare.
Then again, the one time where it wasn't so much of a nightmare (Mobile 2003 to 2003 SE), device manufacturers didn't want to upgrade devices because they didn't see the upgrade as changing enough! So, on one hand, either the update is so major that it would cost too much to offer... or it isn't major enough to be considered a worthy update to push. (this is on the manufacturer's side of things, the end user view will be different) Although the new update feature will be nice and might start changing things for the better, I don't forsee any major changes with the next OS... manufacturers aren't really getting hurt by the no-upgrade policy that they have, at least overall.
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10-10-2005, 01:51 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 46
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I think this all comes down to $$$$$  I bet most PDA manufacturers make less $$$$$ by releasing OS upgrades than forcing users to buy a whole new PDA, or atleast thats what they think :evil:
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10-10-2005, 02:10 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 392
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by UnLoGiC
I think this all comes down to $$$$$ I bet most PDA manufacturers make less $$$$$ by releasing OS upgrades than forcing users to buy a whole new PDA, or atleast thats what they think :evil: |
that could be the case - but moreso is that M$, which dictates the terms the WindowsMobile is handled by the OEMs; just turns a blind eye to it...
well, more PDAs sold, more licensing fees to M$, right?
as a previous post did mention - if the Desktop Team can make it happen, why cant the Mobile Team?
as my father used to say, "if you really want it, you'd get it done... if you dont really want it, there are just TOO many excuses..."
the M$ Mobile Team are nothing more than excuses...
PS: and no, up until, M$ (as well as other vendors) shows true responsibility and gives value for money to the customers, forever it would be known as "EM-dollar-S"...
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10-10-2005, 02:15 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 481
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Like it was mentioned in the MSDN article that it's not greed but just cost too much to do an upgrade and thier not sure how many people take advantage of it. I think that's a bunch of hogwash. If their marketing can figure out if something is worth persuing then they can come up with numbers on whether or not to justify an upgrade. I'm sure that wouldn't be too hard to figure out when it comes to upgrading my iPAQ 3600 series PDA but what about my iPAQ 4150? Like unxmully pointed out that the hardware is not too much different than the stuff their offering today. Does that mean I just put the thing in a draw.
I upgraded to a Dell x50v because of the VGA but also because I would be able to upgrade to WM5 when it came out. But I had no intention of putting my 4150 into the draw. I still use the 4150 because of it's slim form factor and I would have upgraded to WM5 in a heartbeat if it was offered. But then again I might not have bought the Dell if an upgrade was offered.
Like others I have talked with I have reached the end of my hardware buying days. My 4150 and Dell should serve me for some time to come and I don't see any great technical breakthroughs that can enhance the PPC enough for me to buy another (unless of course someone comes up with a built in virtual 20" screen to go along with my virtual keyboard and mouse and not to forget a built in 300gb HD with three card slots and a battery that can last 2 weeks all in the 4150 case 8) )
BTW both my 3600 and 3800 series iPAQ's were upgraded to OPIE. I got envolved in the respective communities and am having a ball hacking away - which satisfies the geek in me. So now both my 4150 and x50v are used only for work (and minor diversions :wink: ).
Jeff-
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10-10-2005, 02:43 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 20
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by UnLoGiC
I think this all comes down to $$$$$ I bet most PDA manufacturers make less $$$$$ by releasing OS upgrades than forcing users to buy a whole new PDA, or atleast thats what they think :evil: |
But these manufacturers do not fail to use the flash-ROM as a selling point. They only fail to deliver on that.
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10-10-2005, 03:17 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 392
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy John
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UnLoGiC
I think this all comes down to $$$$$ I bet most PDA manufacturers make less $$$$$ by releasing OS upgrades than forcing users to buy a whole new PDA, or atleast thats what they think :evil: |
But these manufacturers do not fail to use the flash-ROM as a selling point. They only fail to deliver on that. |
yep - i did post a similar-sounding comment to the MSDN blog...
unfortunately, im not really sure it would make any difference, though...
-----
personal note: would it be possible to send this entire thread to the MSDN blog?
... maybe... just maybe a means to get their eyes and ears opened...
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10-10-2005, 03:47 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy John
But these manufacturers do not fail to use the flash-ROM as a selling point. They only fail to deliver on that.
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Nonsense. Name me one Pocket PC manufacturer - since FlashROM became a requirement - who hasn't offered ROM updates. That is the primary purpose of the FlashROM - not OS upgrades which (and yes - I do mean this) we are damn lucky to get at all.
Do manufacturers want upgraders to buy new Pocket PCs rather than upgrade existing ones? Of course they do...! Out of greed? No - out of a desire to make profit. There is more profit in one than the other - and no self-respecting company with shareholders is going to ignore that.
Remember - if we can't upgrade our OS - our machines don't suddenly become useless. A PPC running WM2003/SE can still run the latest software, is still as fast and capable as ever etc. Expecting that an OS upgrade is a right, or worthwhile for the company,is just silly. If it was worthwhile then it would be offered - no company sits there thinking - 'hey - how can we piss off our users toay?'.
To believe this is MS greed is just as silly - I would imagine that the OS costs the same whether an upgrade or in a new device - as such MS will have no motive in pushing one or the other - though I imagine it pleases them when manufacturers do offer upgrades.
As to those comparing Windows Mobile to desktop Windows - do you really need spelling out the difference between a desktop PC and a consumer PDA?
Hell - I'm no defender of bad customer service or company arrogance - and it would be nice if companies told the unvarnished truth about upgrades etc. (HP anyone?) - but this is one area where people seem unwilling to deal with the realities of the PPC market and thus have very unrealistic expectations (the worst cases being those people who insist they saw a promise to upgrade when they bought their last PPC - I don't believe *any* have made such a promise on release).
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