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09-20-2005, 09:30 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
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The Dell Axim X51v: If it Were Software, It Would Be a Dot Release
![](http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/dell-axim-x51v-fullybody.jpg)
Product Category: Pocket PC Manufacturer: Dell Where to Buy: Dell Price: $499 USD System Requirements: n/a
Pros:- Continues the tradition of the well-liked X50v;
- Roomy 256 MB of Flash ROM;
- Retains excellent screen from the X50v;
- Dell has a good track record for OS upgrades;
- Same or better features than X50v at no additional cost.
Cons:- Battery life still lacking;
- Sluggish 2D screen drawing;
- Windows Mobile 5 buggy;
- No hardware enhancements for Windows Mobile 5 softkeys;
- Ghastly 3rd party software install.
Summary: The Dell Axim X51v is an incremental upgrade from the X50v. While it retains all of the strong points of the X50v (price point, dual slots, screen), it does little to address the weak points such as lacking battery life, and sluggish 2D screen draws. The introduction of Windows Mobile 5 brings with it many advantages, but extra performance and polish are not neccesarily among them.
First Things First Let's get this out in the open right away: the X51v offers no compelling reason for any X50v owner to upgrade. It's got the same CPU (Intel PXA270 at 624 mhz), same screen (640 x 480 VGA), same GPU (Intel 2700G), same slots (SD + CF), and same buttons. There's a reason they called it the X51 series and not the X55 or X60 series. This really is a "dot" release. It's the most incremental release of any Pocket PC that I've seen from any OEM, although HP was equally uninspiring back in the iPAQ 39xx days.
In some ways, that's a good thing for all the X50v owners out there; because Dell is offering a Windows Mobile 5 upgrade, you'll get practically everything that the X51v offers except for the extra Flash ROM. Dell has retained the same price point, so they don't really lose out either: people who were thinking about buying the X50v will now buy the X51v. Still, I'm left uninspired by the X51v, and as such this will be one of the shortest device reviews I've ever written because there's simply not that much to talk about from the hardware point of view. I should also note that Dell sent me a new ROM update tonight, which is supposed to improve (among other things) battery life, and thus some of the conclusions I've reached in using this device may not hold true when the final devices reach the hands of customers. The joy of reviewing non-production hardware!
So, What's Changed? Let's talk about what's new and improved in the X51v. The biggest improvement is 256 MB of Flash ROM, and this is truly an excellent upgrade that Dell has made. Now that Windows Mobile 5 makes RAM purely for execution, this changes the way the memory game is played. No more fighting with the memory slider! On a freshly hard-reset X51v, there should be 64 MB of RAM available for program execution. At the moment, after a soft reset, my device is reporting there's 49.47 MB total program RAM, 16.82 MB is in use, and 32.65 MB is free. I'm a bit baffled as to why it's not reporting 64 MB - this may be a result of the new ROM update, or just bad user interface design on Microsoft's part.
Of the 256 MB of Flash ROM on the X51v, 190 MB is available to the end user. This is simply awesome. This will allow users to cram their Pocket PC full of applications without needing a storage card. Windows Mobile 5 takes up around 66 MB of ROM, which is a big jump from previous versions. There's a good reason for this, however: my understanding is that each application now has some "slack space" for updates. So if a Windows Media Player 10 Mobile upgrade comes out and the total ROM footprint is 100 KB bigger than before, just that app can be upgraded instead of having to re-flash the entire ROM image. This means that the easy Flash upgrades we were supposed to get years ago will finally become a reality - if the information I've been told proves to be accurate. Microsoft and its OEM partners have historically done very poorly at this however, so I'm not holding my breath.
Identical Hardware, Down to the Buttons One of the big changes in Windows Mobile 5 is the introduction of soft keys. These are large software buttons that take the place of the toolbar in most Pocket PC applications. The concept comes from the Smartphone side of Windows Mobile, and the idea is that softkeys allow you to access all menu functions one-handed, without having to reach for the stylus. I'm still not sold on the concept, especially since when I'm using my Pocket PC, I actually want the more complex user-interface. I think this comes from the same group that decided the "X" button shouldn't actually close applications. ;-) The difference here is that the X51v doesn't have dedicated softkey buttons, which means if you want to use this feature you have to re-map two of the four buttons. This reduces the total functionality of the device, unless you get some third-party button mapping software that will allow you to use double-pushes to activate the original function of the button. I was very disappointed that Dell didn't alter its hardware to support this key Windows Mobile 5 feature.
![](http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/dell-axim-x51v-closeup.jpg) Figure 1: Look ma, no softkey buttons!
The wireless is also the same - almost. WiFi remains identical, but in switching to Windows Mobile 5, Dell also switched Bluetooth stacks from Broadcomm to Microsoft's own stack. Since I avoid Bluetooth like the plague, I'm unsure of the implications - I've heard that it lacks stereo headphone and hands-free headset support, but that Microsoft is working to add this into their product. The lack of headset support is of minimal importance since this isn't a phone device, but Bluetooth headphones are becoming popular and it's a shame Microsoft's Bluetooth stack is still so lacking when compared to what Broadcomm offers.
Windows Mobile 5: Not All is Golden I won't delve too much into Windows Mobile 5 in this review, since I'm focusing on the X51v itself, but I found Windows Mobile 5 very painful in two ways when I was setting up and using the X51v. First, after a hard reset I connected the X51v to my PC and set up a new partnership. ActiveSync 4.0 has a different partnership wizard if you have a Windows Mobile 5 device, and it's quite intuitive. I entered my hosted Exchange account information, then watched as basically nothing happened. The X51v synchronized with my desktop PC, but coughed up an 0x85020006 error when the device tried to sync with the Exchange server. ActiveSync 4.0 removes the option for Internet passthrough - I assumed that meant it was automatic, but after fighting with Connection Manager on the X51v for 15 minutes I gave up and disconnected. I turned on WiFi, and the X51v saw my access point - I entered my WEP key, started ActiveSync, and clicked sync. It worked! Within a few minutes I had all my data on the X51v - but why wouldn't the synchronization work in the cradle? I have no idea, but it's a serious problem.
Later, I wanted to see if a particular ActiveSync bug had been fixed: I've always had the problem where, after a backup and restore, the Pocket PC has been unable to synchronize against the Exchange server again. Only a hard reset would allow the Pocket PC to sync again. On the X51v, I did a backup using the included application, then hard reset and a restore. I restore the device, then after a soft reset I noticed the date was wrong. No matter, I fixed it and started a sync session. Much to my delight, the sync actually started, which is sometime that wouldn't have happened under Windows Mobile 2003SE.
My delight turned to disbelief, then anger as I saw what ActiveSync was doing: it duplicated 900 contacts, 50 emails, and 6 months worth of appointments! No warning, no "Replace, Remove, or Combine" dialogue box, simply a duplication. It will take me hours to fix this manually, unless I can find a tool to remove duplicates. I have memories of such a tool, but at this point I haven't had time to track one down. Any suggestions for one that will work with Outlook 2003 and an Exchange server? I'm unsure as to whether this is a problem with Dell's backup application, or with ActiveSync. The bottom line is that in this instance Exchange ActiveSync remains broken after a restore - and I'd rather have it break completely then duplicate all my data, so from my point of view it's actually gotten worse. I didn't think that was even possible!
Suffice it to say that while Windows Mobile 5 brings with it several key advantages - persistent storage is amazingly helpful - my experience with it so far has been mixed (WMP 10 Mobile retains its horrible library functions), and I have no shortage of feedback for Microsoft at the MVP Summit coming up in a few weeks. Windows Mobile 5 feels like one step forward and two sideways.
3D Performance Because the X50v and X51v have the same Intel 2700G graphics processor, both devices are capable of impressive 3D performance. Futuremark makes a 3D benchmarking suite for Smartphones (SPMARK04) that they adapted for Pocket PCs with the 2700G GPU. Testing the X51v resulted in 26.01 FPS in Low Detail mode, and 8.92 FPS in High Detail mode. The closest any other handheld device (that they've tested) can come is the Nokia 6630 at 14.5 FPS, almost half as fast. The SPMARK04 benchmark is interesting to watch - there's an impressively detailed helicopter flying over a forest, and in the demo mode you can use the d-pad to control the helicopter. You can see it chugging in the high detail mode, but the low detail mode is quite smooth. You can see the 3D rendering quality come through strongly in the bundled "Toy Golf" application as well - the graphics are very impressive!
Battery Life Because I haven't had the X51v all that long, it's difficult to get a real handle on the battery life. The battery is the same size as the X50v, 1100 mah. Like all X50v users, I was really hoping Dell would put a bigger battery in the X51v - something in the 1500 mah range. In unofficial tests, Dell techs found a 10-15% improvement in battery life. In my own tests, results were mixed.
Because Windows Mobile 5 devices don't need to power the RAM when the device is in suspend mode, my first thought was that the standby power drain would be much less. I fully charged the X50v and X51v, hard reset them, and let them sit. I powered up each to check the battery level several times, and after 52 hours of standby the battery level on the X50v was at 90% while the battery level of the X51v was at 89% - essentially the same battery level. So much for that theory!
Next I set the CPU speed at 624 mhz on both the X50v and X51v and used Spb Benchmark the run the MP3 audio test. The system volume for each device was set at 100%, while the WMP 10 Mobile volume was set at 75%. Headphones were plugged into each device, and the screens were turned off. The X50v died after a mere 4 hours and 32 minutes, while the X51v kept chugging along for 13 hours and 28 minutes. I'm suspicious of these test results because I have a hunch the reason the X50v died so quickly was because the CPU was set to 624 mhz. I've reset the CPU on the X50v to Auto and am in the process of running the test again - it's been more than four hours and the X50v is still playing, so my hunch is I'll see results within the next 8 hours. The 13.5 hours of the X51v is very impressive - I'll run the test again with the CPU in Auto mode to see if it makes any difference. Given the huge difference in results, I'm wondering if the CPU setting didn't actually take effect on the X51v and it really was running in Auto mode.
Bundled Software: What a Mess! The X51v comes with a CD that contains ActiveSync and a slew of third party programs. The setup was interesting because it first scanned my computer to ensure I had ActiveSync 4.0 installed, then it moved on to a list of third party applications. This is where it got ugly. First, there was no indication of which programs in the list were full versions - I knew from my discussions with Dell that the X51v came with full versions of Battery Pack Lite, Resco Picture Viewer, Geo Rally 3D, and Toy Golf 3D. The full versions were mixed in with the trial versions, so most users will assume that they're all trial versions and miss out on the great software they get for free! I checked off all the full versions and a few of the trial versions and clicked next - then was bombarded with an assortment of windows as the installers for the various programs started to vie for dominance.
At one point my taskbar had so many installers in it I couldn't see which was which. Most of the programs used different installers, which only made things more of a mess. To add insult to injury you have programs that insist on littering the desktop computer with icons and some that instruct the user to perform a soft reset (Calligrapher). This would utterly confuse a new Pocket PC user. At one point, with four installers open, I had to disconnect the X51v because the install of CityTime was hung. As soon as I disconnected, the install of Bejewelled 2 started - so it looks like the problem was too many programs fighting for permission to install.
The entire software install scenario with the X51v is a complete disaster - Dell should know better. The entire process seemed like an afterthought. What they need is a unified installer that pushes the CAB files down to the device and does an orderly install of the applications - and they need to clearly indicate which applications are full versions. I think customers would be better off if Dell pre-installed the full versions into the user-accessible Flash ROM. Customers would get to use the apps, and if they didn't like them they could uninstall them.
Performance: Where the Silicon Hits the Road A few hours ago I received version 1.6 of Spb Benchmark, and ran a series of performance tests on the X51v. I updated the ROM after that, and ran the tests again, so I was able to see the impact of the ROM update on performance. I should state one thing about the X51v before I go into the Spb Benchmark results: it doesn't feel slow. Although many of the Spb Benchmark results indicate the X51v is dog-slow compared to the X50v, when loaded up with all my data, I didn't find that the X51v felt slow very often at all. Certain actions felt "Flash ROM slow" - drawing icons in the games folder for instance - but in most cases I was pleased with the speed of the X51v. Jon Westfall happens to be testing an iMate Jasjar at the moment, and I got him to run Spb Benchmark 1.6 tonight, so I've included it in the results as well. Let's dive in!
![](http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/x51v-benchmark-overall.gif) Figure 2: The overall results look extremely bad for the new Windows Mobile 5 devices.
![](http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/x51v-benchmark-cpuindex.gif) Figure 3: A surprising amount of variance between the three Axims that all have the same 624 Mhz CPU. Notice that the ROM update Dell issued today caused a small jump in performance. The Jasjar performs well considering the CPU is 104 Mhz slower. Windows Mobile 5 seems to have some CPU overhead that slows down performance.
![](http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/x51v-benchmark-filesystemindex.gif) Figure 4: This is the score that really looks for bad for the Windows Mobile 5 devices, and where reality and the benchmarks diverge. According to this benchmark, the X51v is almost ten times slower than the X50v at file operations. But in day to day use with Calender and Contact manipulations, the X51v feels nearly the same as the X50v. I think this is an instance where Spb Benchmark may have to come up with new tests more appropriate for Windows Mobile 5 devices.
![](http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/x51v-benchmark-activesync.gif) Figure 5: Windows Mobile 5 devices are faster at ActiveSync operations, likely due to the redesigned ActiveSync 4.0. The speeds are particularly noticeable when it comes to 1MB file downloads (not shown): the X51v is 27% faster than the X50v.
Although most of the benchmarks look grim for the X51v, it doesn't feel slow in day to day use. Opening Contacts, adding Calendar entries, browsing the Web - it all feels almost the same as the X50v.
Bits and Pieces There were a few other bits of information I gleaned from my discussion with Dell team members, so I'll summarize them here. The X51v is the first 100% lead free Pocket PC from Dell, designed as such to comply with European environmental standards that will be law in 2006. The X51 series will be shipping for the next 12-15 months, so it will overlap the next generation unit in the same way that Dell continued to ship the X30 when the X50 came out. The world-wide English launch happens today (the 20th of September), while European languages will launch on October 14th. Asia Pacific will come on November 23rd, which will include simplified Chinese and Japanese.
Conclusions After spending some time with the Dell Axim X51v, I came to the same conclusion as I did with the X50v: it's a solid Pocket PC with great value for the money. The improvements are not enough to warrant purchasing it if you currently have an X50v, but if you have an older device and are looking to upgrade to the latest operating system, the X51v is a great choice. While I'd really like to see improvements in the 2D drawing speed to make the device feel more snappy, the X51v is no worse than the X50v in this regard. I also have to give Dell credit for being fairly consistent with its support of one generation back for operating system upgrades: this means that if you buy an X51v there's a good chance Dell will support it when the next version of Windows Mobile comes out. In the world of fickle Pocket PC OEMs that routinely abandon their users, Dell deserves a lot of credit for its approach. The X51v might not raise your pulse very much when you look at it (especially if you've an X50v owner), but it does what it does quite well.
Jason Dunn is an avid technology enthusiast who lives in Calgary, Alberta, with his wife, Ashley and dog, Keiko. He's very tired at the moment, having started this review on the same night he finished it, at 2:09 AM. He wishes he would have started it sooner instead of procrastinating. Got a cure for that?
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 10:43 AM
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Oracle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 980
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Quote:
Because Windows Mobile 5 devices don't need to power the RAM when the device is in suspend mode, my first thought was that the standby power drain would be much less. I fully charged the X50v and X51v, hard reset them, and let them sit. I powered up each to check the battery level several times, and after 52 hours of standby the battery level on the X50v was at 90% while the battery level of the X51v was at 89% - essentially the same battery level. So much for that theory!
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This is wrong. WM5 still need to power the RAM all time. You get more power from WM5 from another reason, the lack of the 72 hour rule on WM5.
Check this link
http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/wm5...ast-25-of.html
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 10:44 AM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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Great article!
Decent device, except for the lack of dedicated HW WM5 buttons / the same screen as in the x50v (which is a bit worse than the one in the hx4700/PL720) / MS BT stack / 1100 mAh battery (I'm looking forward to your additional test results!) / no jog dial / no other goodies like USB host.
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Let's talk about what's new and improved in the X51v. The biggest improvement is 256 MB of Flash ROM, and this is truly an excellent upgrade that Dell has made. Now that Windows Mobile 5 makes RAM purely for execution, this changes the way the memory game is played. No more fighting with the memory slider! On a freshly hard-reset X51v, there should be 64 MB of RAM available for program execution. At the moment, after a soft reset, my device is reporting there's 49.47 MB total program RAM, 16.82 MB is in use, and 32.65 MB is free. I'm a bit baffled as to why it's not reporting 64 MB - this may be a result of the new ROM update, or just bad user interface design on Microsoft's part.
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Unffortunately, AFAIK (haven't dvelved into this problem much � with JasJar, the available RAM memory is around the same AFAIK), nothing can be done to combat this � the situation is the same with other WM5 devices. WM5 comsumes much more RAM to keep itself in than previous WM/PPC versions. (Again, I may be wrong.) This greatly reduces the usability of 64M RAM devices if you want to keep more than a handful web pages open in a multitabbed browser plug-in like MultiIE or do some other, memory-intensive task like working with large(r) images/running some memory-intensive games.
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Of the 256 MB of Flash ROM on the X51v, 190 MB is available to the end user. This is simply awesome. This will allow users to cram their Pocket PC full of applications without needing a storage card. Windows Mobile 5 takes up around 66 MB of ROM, which is a big jump from previous versions. There's a good reason for this, however: my understanding is that each application now has some "slack space" for updates.
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Yup, it (or something like this) must be the reason for this being 66M � 30M more than the core, working WM5. Another reason must be the add-on Dell programs (like the Odyssey client). The WM5 operating system core only takes 36 Mbytes.
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The 13.5 hours of the X51v is very impressive
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It is! Much as I haven't directly measured the CPU usage (the highest contributor � as opposed to sound volume - to the battery consumption) of the Spb sound generator engine (most MP3 player applications consume between 8% and 30% CPU cycles at 520 MHz; if Spn consumes far less, then, its results can't be compared to those of real-world players), but 13 hours is almost as good as that of the iPAQ hx4700 or the Fujitsu-Siemens Pocket Loox 720 with current players � that is, very good.
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Dell also switched Bluetooth stacks from Broadcomm to Microsoft's own stack... it's a shame Microsoft's Bluetooth stack is still so lacking when compared to what Broadcomm offers.
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Ouch ![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif) Hope the Widcomm BT stack can be hacked on the device, though � as with on the Jam.
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My delight turned to disbelief, then anger as I saw what ActiveSync was doing: it duplicated 900 contacts, 50 emails, and 6 months worth of appointments! No warning, no "Replace, Remove, or Combine" dialogue box, simply a duplication. It will take me hours to fix this manually, unless I can find a tool to remove duplicates. I have memories of such a tool, but at this point I haven't had time to track one down. Any suggestions for one that will work with Outlook 2003 and an Exchange server?
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There're several WinCE database duplication removers; for example, WebIS Toolbox 3.0 or (it's not as sophisticated as the WebIS app in this respect!) SKTools. They only delete duplicated records on the PDA; however, this may help. You may also want to consider manual record export/import instead of the initial synchornization (which results in the duplication) with SKTools (XML export/import, easy to modify) or Pocket dbExplorer (CSV/TSV export, which is directly importable to Outlook/Exchange Server).
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Figure 4: This is the score that really looks for bad for the Windows Mobile 5 devices, and where reality and the benchmarks diverge. According to this benchmark, the X51v is almost ten times slower than the X50v at file operations. But in day to day use with Calender and Contact manipulations, the X51v feels nearly the same as the X50v. I think this is an instance where Spb Benchmark may have to come up with new tests more appropriate for Windows Mobile 5 devices.
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I'd really want to see PIE/NetFront cache speed tests or tests with SMS applications like SimpleSMS, which is almost useless in pre-WM5 op. systems when run from outside RAM. Alex_kac, developer of PI, has mentioned many times that WM5 has a much better caching/ delayed writing method to speed up operations like these (which create tons of new files) considerably � I'd still want to know whether it's worth relocating the cache.
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 10:48 AM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctitanic
Quote:
Because Windows Mobile 5 devices don't need to power the RAM when the device is in suspend mode, my first thought was that the standby power drain would be much less. I fully charged the X50v and X51v, hard reset them, and let them sit. I powered up each to check the battery level several times, and after 52 hours of standby the battery level on the X50v was at 90% while the battery level of the X51v was at 89% - essentially the same battery level. So much for that theory!
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This is wrong. WM5 still need to power the ROM all time. You get more power from WM5 from another reason, the lack of the 72 hour rule on WM5.
Check this link
http://x51v.blogspot.com/2005/09/wm5...ast-25-of.html
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Yes, you must explicitly shut down the device so that it's really turned off. If you do this, the battery will still stay at around 100% after 52 hours and not at 90% (the self-discharging of Li-Ion/Poly batteries is some percents in a month - less than half that of nickel-based batteries - see this article.)
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 10:53 AM
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Oracle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menneisyys
Yes, you must explicitly shut down the device so that it's really turned off. If you do this, the battery will still stay at around 100% after 52 hours and not at 90% (the self-discharging of Li-Ion/Poly batteries is some percents in a month - less than half that of nickel-based batteries - see this article.)
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what do you mean by Yes?
***excessive quoting deleted by mode JD***
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 10:57 AM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctitanic
what do you mean by Yes?
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I've referred to your post ![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif) I've meant you're right - unless you don't completely shut down the device, it'll only be suspended, which will result in the same power consumption (the 1% difference - that is, 10% if projected to the entire charge range - is because of the lack of the final, 72-hour-long safety zone) than with pre-WM5 devices with the same hardware.
***excessive quoting deleted by moderator JD***
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 11:09 AM
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Oracle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 980
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got it!
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 11:10 AM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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mobiletechreview has also published their review. Some interesting quotes:
Battery life:
"That said, battery life is average for a Pocket PC, giving about 3 hours and 15 minutes of actual use in average conditions consisting of PIM use, working with MS Office documents, surfing the web for an hour using WiFi, gaming for 45 minutes and playing a few short videos. If you need more power, Dell sells an optional 2200 mAh battery which will increase the thickness of the PDA. If you're a heavy wireless user, you may want to consider this extended battery or a second standard battery. In our video test, the X51v used 43% of its charge playing a 1 hour 20 minute film using Windows Media Player 10. Brightness was set at 66%, WM10 was set to stretch video to full screen and we had sound piped out through stereo earbud headphones." - Well, the WMV runtime results aren't at all good. Of course, with TCPMP, running the device at 203 MHz, it'll be much better. In addition, I wonder if the BT unit is still as heavy on batteries as in the x50v (as opposed to the iPAQ's/PL720)?
Screen:
"The 3.7" LCD is sharp and bright. Text is clear even at the smallest type settings. While not stunningly vivid like the iPAQ hx4700, the screen is still very good and will please those who want to view photos or videos. "
BT:
"Unlike the X50 line, the X51v uses Microsoft's Bluetooth stack rather than Broadcom's excellent Bluetooth drivers and software. Microsoft's Bluetooth software lacks Broadcom's user friendly wizard, but still gets the job done. The device supports standard profiles such as OBEX, DUN, serial port and headset. " - no word of Hi-Fi headsets, PAN (which is very important with tons of usage areas like sharing your internet connection on one of your PDA's, short-distance chatting/file sending/messageboards or short-distance multiplayer games like Explode Arena) or compatibility with the StowAway BT keyboard (the lack of it is a showstopper for anyone using the keyboard!)
EDIT: some new links/areas of using BT PAN have been added
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 11:10 AM
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Oracle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 980
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got it!
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![Old](images/zts/statusicon/post_old.gif)
09-20-2005, 11:24 AM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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OFFTOPIC: your 'got it' post have been doubled when I edited my post 2 or 3 times. Strange, must be a phpBB bug.
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