08-23-2005, 08:00 PM
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Developer & Designer, News Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,959
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Intel Plans Windows Vista Support for Handhelds
"Intel CEO Paul Otellini today pledged to permit handheld users to run Windows Vista on their palmtops by the end of the decade. Microsoft chief Steve Ballmer may none be too happy that his Wintel colleague is setting out to rid the world of Windows Mobile but that's the way it goes. And anyway, Steve Jobs is a customer too, now. Otellini's pitch was a new generation of devices he dubbed the 'handtop'. The platform is nothing new, of course - PDAs, palmtops and handheld PCs have been around for years - but past attempts to create truly mobile, wireless micro PCs have been hindered by performance and battery life limitations."
Intel's vision is to create a new wave of mobile devices equipped with 0.5W processors and Windows Vista. Don't break a sweat just yet. I'm adamant that Windows Mobile-based Pocket PCs and Smartphones will still be around for many years to come, and besides, Intel has set a forecast of 2010.
At any rate, feel free to weigh in with your thoughts - are you for or against the use of a desktop OS on a mobile device? Perhaps OQO users could chime in as well, but bear in mind that Intel's idea of a handtop in 2010 will be vastly different to today's oh-so-pricey OQO.
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08-23-2005, 08:18 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 40
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Hmm... well, if you would permit me to arbitrarily define an OS as a base of program functionality (APIs and DLLs, etc.) + an interface framework (desktop, windows, etc.) then it seems reasonable to suggest that Windows Mobile has, until this point, modified both to fit the realities of the handheld.
These realities, respectively, are
1. smaller, less powerful hardware "under the hood" (because of size and battery limitations) than a PC
2. smaller screen / different input devices than a PC
So naturally, a handheld OS must differ from a desktop OS in these two ways. But which of the above two limitations ought to persist? The second, of course - as long as you want it in your pocket, you can't have a mouse and a full sized keyboard and a 19" screen.
The first limitation dwindles as technology gets better - smaller hard drives, faster processors that consume less power, better battery capacity, etc. Theoretically, the computing POWER of a handheld should always be able to catch up to that which was once only available in a PC. We've already seen this as Windows Mobile introduces the .NET CF, versions of SQL and DirectX, etc. Ultimately, the base program functionality of the OS is whatever the hardware can handle, and Windows Mobile grows closer to the desktop in this respect, each release.
But our persistent limitation (that is, the effect of size on interface) may be less distinctive in terms of Windows Vista and subsequent OSes, because Vista has abstracted the GUI. They've said "we'll present the programs to you in different ways depending on your graphics hardware". Not only that, but they've allowed the user to selectively zoom and scale program windows in Vista to different sizes. So far this involves minute differences like transparency and 3D desktop effects, but I can see where Intel is going with their thinking... what if the Mobile GUI was just another (smaller) way of presenting Vista to the user? What if apps with the same base capabilities (due to the same underlying APIs in the OS) could display one way on a PC monitor, but a different way on a handheld? Controls could change their look and behaviour to accomodate the stylus.
The trend with Windows seems to be about unifying the base capabilities, and then offering device-specific roles based around new interfaces. My suspicion is that this is where MCE is going - it will be just another, different GUI on top of Vista, one specifically designed for low-resolution displays (televisions) and remote-control navigation. What if Windows Mobile ultimately becomes "Handheld Computer Edition", with an interface customized for stylus and small screens? Why not?
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08-23-2005, 08:26 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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Re: Intel Plans Windows Vista Support for Handhelds
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Originally Posted by Darius Wey
At any rate, feel free to weigh in with your thoughts - are you for or against the use of a desktop OS on a mobile device? Perhaps OQO users could chime in as well, but bear in mind that Intel's idea of a handtop in 2010 will be vastly different to today's oh-so-pricey OQO.
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Currently it is a bad idea. I use a Fujitsu P7010 Lifebook - one of the very small laptops - and it the smallest screen on whic I can imagine Windows to be practical. Windows programs (and the OS) are designed for bigger screens and are too big and slow for use in a mobile device. The OQO is a bad idea.
By 2010, however, things will be very different. For one - I fully expect Win CE and full Windows to meet and merge. Win CE will become every more capable and powerful - while always being designed for small devices and small screens. Full Windows will, hopefully, become leaner, faster and more adaptable. Over time the two should meet in the middle to the extent that each will be able to run the programs of the other and become, at the very least, interchangeable. At best what is now Win CE will be by then a subset/variation of a much more adaptable general Windows - able to be big and powerful with loads of power, memory etc. needed, but also small and low powered.
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08-23-2005, 08:29 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
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Both
I want both merged in the same pocket pc sized device.
Pocket PC Phone for quick information and communication on the go. Windows Vista that I am able to plug in to a bigger monitor for full PC capabilities.
Two different buttons would trigger which OS I want to use.
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08-23-2005, 08:37 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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Re: Both
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Originally Posted by jgalindo
I want both merged in the same pocket pc sized device.
Pocket PC Phone for quick information and communication on the go. Windows Vista that I am able to plug in to a bigger monitor for full PC capabilities.
Two different buttons would trigger which OS I want to use.
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I'd be willing to bet that something like that will be a stepping stone along the way.
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08-23-2005, 09:11 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 316
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I'd love to see a desktop OS on my handhelds, in the sense that they would be able to do everything that a desktop can... but they had better not keep the desktop user interface. As others have pointed out, desktop and CE Windows are already on a collision course as handhelds get more and more powerful, so an eventual OS merge with desktop, media, and pocket flavors seems almost inevitable at some point in the future.
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Originally Posted by [url=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=318347#318347
gibson042[/url]]I really have no loyalty to Windows Mobile per se, I would just like the design and user interface of my OS to match the design and user interface of my hardware. If that ends up being not "Windows Mobile 2010" but "Windows SRT Pocket Edition" (or "Second Edition Tablet Edition for Pocket PC"--gotta love Microsoft naming conventions :wink  , then so be it. |
2010 is too soon for it to happen on PDA-sized devices, but I think it's a perfect time frame for the slightly larger handtop/palmtop OQO-like devices. Especially with Intel now placing top priority on reducing power consumption of all their processors, and AMD sure to follow.
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08-23-2005, 09:26 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bcries
But our persistent limitation (that is, the effect of size on interface) may be less distinctive in terms of Windows Vista and subsequent OSes, because Vista has abstracted the GUI. They've said "we'll present the programs to you in different ways depending on your graphics hardware". Not only that, but they've allowed the user to selectively zoom and scale program windows in Vista to different sizes.
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Wow - I was not aware of this (not been keeping up to date on Vista! Call me a bad developer!!!). This is a great addition. There is every chance that screen manufacturers will give us SVGA or even XSVGA screens that fit into the current PPC form factor. With continued miniturisation and some modification of the button locations, a screen of 5 inch diagonal is entirely possible ... and then we could run Vista, and scale the displayed windows to suit our needs and eyesight.
At this stage, the screen itself need not be the limiting factor in this, but our eyesight will  uppydogeyes:
:-)
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08-23-2005, 10:39 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 468
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Since when is choice ever a bad thing? I think it's great to have the choice between Windows Mobile and Vista. (I agree that Mobile isn't going away any time soon.)
I've been advocating the creation of a "PDA" shell for Windows for a long time. Something like the Media Center Edition, in which you have a different UI for the different use, a "PDA" version of the Vista UI could look a lot like Windows Mobile, but still be able to run all of the apps that run on Vista.
Not everyone will need that power (or be able to afford such a device) and so would want Windows Mobile instead. Of course, I would expect Windows Mobile to be superior in terms of battery life, instant-on, and possibly other areas as well.
I would also expect that the phone devices would continue to run on Windows Mobile and I would be surprised to see any sort of Windows Vista phone.
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08-23-2005, 10:50 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Perry Reed
I would also expect that the phone devices would continue to run on Windows Mobile and I would be surprised to see any sort of Windows Vista phone.
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Not sure I can agree. It seems that those of us who want separte phone/PDA devices are fast becoming the minority.
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08-23-2005, 11:03 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 468
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SteveHoward999
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Originally Posted by Perry Reed
I would also expect that the phone devices would continue to run on Windows Mobile and I would be surprised to see any sort of Windows Vista phone.
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Not sure I can agree. It seems that those of us who want separte phone/PDA devices are fast becoming the minority. |
Indeed you are, but I still would expect those combined devices to run Mobile instead of Vista.
Now I would not be surprised to see Vista devices with some sort of 3G data access embedded in them, but I see that as purely data, not a voice device (except, of course, VOIP).
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