08-09-2005, 10:00 AM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Operating System Prisoners - Smartphone Thoughts Rants On Flashes Gone Bad
http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,8976
"Somebody has to explain to me why all these new phones coming out soon have an old operating system on them! What am I missing here? It's 2005. In 1969 we sent men to the moon with a computer the size of 2 shoe boxes on board the spacecraft and it was barely more than a four function calculator. Now here we are with these high tech phones and we are prisoners of what the carriers dictate we can have. I have been flashing computer BIOS for longer than I can remember and never turned a machine into a brick. Yet these phones are so fragile if you sneeze while you flash the ROM it is all over. The time has come for phones with a separate phone side so it can always work as a phone even with no operating system installed. A separate side we can install any OS we want so long as it knows how to interact with hooks on the phone side completes it. I haven't written code in years so someone tell me why this can't be done if it can't. We spend so much money on these devices and we are at the mercy of the carriers. Can you imagine if the computer industry started like this?"
As someone that has bricked more than one device over the years, AMEN! Are you in agreement with Jerry Raia?
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08-09-2005, 11:14 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 459
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I don't particularly like the way carriers do things in terms of software upgrades: I, for example, would love to be able to upgrade WMP9 to WMP10 right now. However, when I paid UK�180 for my O2 Xda2s (aka HTC Blue Angel) I made a choice to go for a subsidised market model where software upgrades are patchy. Goodness knows how much my PPCPE is really worth, or how much it would have cost had the market developed the way the PC market did - with no subsidies - but I'm pretty sure we are talking multiples of the price I paid. As a result, I am not forced to invest time and energy in maintaining the value of an expensive asset, like I have to with my UK�1200 desktop.
So, on the whole, I prefer the model that gives me a great piece of kit at a price I can afford, and which also 'forces' me to upgrade (at a heavily subsidised rate again) to a shiny new great piece of kit every year or so just to get the software upgrade.
New software / OS on an old toy now vs. a whole new shiny toy in a few months. I'll go for the new toy.
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08-09-2005, 01:03 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 88
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i think so too, why do we have to have one OS handling everything?
why cant we have 2 seperate OS?
just like 2 device glue together, with 2 seperate screen too... one for phone /one for PDA... that will just fix the problem of bring 2 seperate device...
someone might just need to invent a dual slot bag/case....
I m now using a PDA phone ( o2 xda II mini ), it is certainly a PDA with limited phone functions...
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08-09-2005, 01:31 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 418
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Re: Operating System Prisoners - Smartphone Thoughts Rants On Flashes Gone Bad
Quote:
http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/in...on=expand,8976
"...these phones are so fragile if you sneeze while you flash the ROM it is all over. The time has come for phones with a separate phone side so it can always work as a phone even with no operating system installed. A separate side we can install any OS we want so long as it knows how to interact with hooks on the phone side completes it..."
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Separating the "phone" OS from the "computer" OS for the purpose of reducing problems seems like a backwards solution to me. Why not create a firmware update process that doesn't place the device at risk? (and make a computer OS that is fast and reliable enough to work on a phone)
Having written that, OS-agnostic phone/PDA hardware would be nice... people could choose PPC/WM, Linux, Palm, Symbian, or whatever platform is most appropriate for their needs.
__________________
HP 48s, 200lx, USR Pilot 1k, Palm 3, V, M100, Handspring Visor, Sony N610c, T615c, T655c, HP iPAQ 1910, 2215, Palm T3, HP hx4705, Dell X50v, HP rx1955, Apple iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4, Samsung Galaxy Nexus
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08-09-2005, 03:19 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 740
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Re: Operating System Prisoners - Smartphone Thoughts Rants On Flashes Gone Bad
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
As someone that has bricked more than one device over the years, AMEN! Are you in agreement with Jerry Raia?
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Its all about control, people. The carriers don't want devices that can run amok on their networks. they don't want devices taking up too much bandwidth, so they control what you get and what you can do with it.
Yes it sucks; but as long as the Cell Carriers have this much of a stake in the way things work, they are going to stick their noses in how you do what you do. There's not much we can do about that. Their networks... their rules.
However, if WiMAX takes hold like we think it will over at pocketnow, then this may be a moot point. I was listening to the latest Podcast from Dave's iPAQ, and they brought up an interesting point: If there was a WiMAX tower on the top of every Wal-Mart or every McDonald's restaurant, you could Skype your way around town or use some sort of VoIP client to make calls, effectively putting the Carriers out of business. I think something like that will happen in 5-7 years; and I don't think that the Carriers will be able to react fast enough to prevent it.
Its just a matter of time, kids... its just a matter of time.
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Kind Regards,
Christopher Spera
Gear Diary Review Team
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08-09-2005, 04:45 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 717
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It seems it is always the battle of who controls whom. The carriers will always cater to the lowest common denominator, the Joe-Sixpack and his level of understanding of how things "work"
Personally, none of my devices lived longer that a day with the �safe� OS on them. There is a lot of things these devices can do but because the carrier controls what you can and can�t have that leaves a lot of room for creative communities to push these devices to their limits. The best example of this is the WM5 running on i-mate Jams, despite the fact that the official word is that they can�t because of memory limitations. We also know that the Blue Angles can and do run WM5 but again we as customers do not have the option to get this from the official channels, we will simply be forced to buy a new device.
Considering the fact that most of these devices cost as much or more than a entry level laptop our OS options are non existing. Imagine buying a laptop today with Windows ME and be told that you can�t have Windows XP, or Linux running on it. No one in their right mind would buy it, yet people shell out hundreds of dollars for devices that are just like it. To me that�s just plain wrong on a lot of different levels. If this is not monopoly or dictatorship I don�t know what is.
Here is an example of a piece of memory real estate I carved out of my device. We all have it, most of us don�t know about it so we don�t use it. I do however, it is mine I paid for it and as such it belongs to me, and frankly I don�t care if my carrier saves its �important� data there. As far as I am concerned that data is happy on my SD card when needed.
happy exploring.
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08-09-2005, 05:17 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 459
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Re: Operating System Prisoners - Smartphone Thoughts Rants On Flashes Gone Bad
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Originally Posted by Chris Spera
However, if WiMAX takes hold like we think it will over at pocketnow, then this may be a moot point .... you could Skype your way around town or use some sort of VoIP client to make calls, effectively putting the Carriers out of business. I think something like that will happen in 5-7 years; and I don't think that the Carriers will be able to react fast enough to prevent it.
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And then we'll all have to pay a lot more up front for our toys because the carriers won't be subsidising them in the hope you'll make enough calls / transfer enough data to make it worth their while.
I know that overall it will probably be cheaper to buy at full cost, up front, and make the savings on the cheap(er) VoIP calls, but the way PPCPEs are going that is going to be a lot of money to find. I want a laptop and a PPCPE, but I'm not sure I could afford both this way.
And the WiMax thing... in the UK it is estimated that with 8 (yes, only 8 ) WiMax stations on tethered balloons, you could get total coverage of the nation. There are airspace issues to resolve, but that kind of investment doesn't sound impossible, does it?
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08-09-2005, 08:38 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,097
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� Companies should just sell PPC and SP hardware. It's up to us to make sure it's compatible with what we want to do with it.
� Microsoft should sell us WM directly. Again, up to us to make sure our device is compatible. Microsoft just makes sure it works with the carriers like they make sure it works with PCs (with no tweaking necessary, just like XP).
� Carriers should just sell service. Once again leaving it up to us to make sure it's compatible with our phone.
That would be my preferred setup. Wishful thinking I guess. :?
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08-09-2005, 11:56 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 652
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Re: Operating System Prisoners - Smartphone Thoughts Rants On Flashes Gone Bad
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Originally Posted by Chris Spera
However, if WiMAX takes hold like we think it will over at pocketnow, then this may be a moot point. I was listening to the latest Podcast from Dave's iPAQ, and they brought up an interesting point: If there was a WiMAX tower on the top of every Wal-Mart or every McDonald's restaurant, you could Skype your way around town or use some sort of VoIP client to make calls, effectively putting the Carriers out of business. I think something like that will happen in 5-7 years; and I don't think that the Carriers will be able to react fast enough to prevent it.
Its just a matter of time, kids... its just a matter of time.
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I find that hard to believe. It falls under the same category as electric/hybrid cars. Car manufactures have to much to loss and won't allow it to happen. The same applies to cell phone carriers and manufactures. A few will go up but not enough to cause a revolution.
__________________
Making use of mobile tech like no other.
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08-10-2005, 12:18 AM
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Sage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 652
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by szamot
It seems it is always the battle of who controls whom. The carriers will always cater to the lowest common denominator, the Joe-Sixpack and his level of understanding of how things "work"
Personally, none of my devices lived longer that a day with the �safe� OS on them. There is a lot of things these devices can do but because the carrier controls what you can and can�t have that leaves a lot of room for creative communities to push these devices to their limits. The best example of this is the WM5 running on i-mate Jams, despite the fact that the official word is that they can�t because of memory limitations. We also know that the Blue Angles can and do run WM5 but again we as customers do not have the option to get this from the official channels, we will simply be forced to buy a new device.
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Consider the fact the WM5 will store all programs in the available FlashROM of your device (PPC, PPCPE, SmartPhone, etc). Say for example your device only has 17MB of FlashROM out 48MB. You upgrade your device to WM5 and now have 0MB free of FlashROM. What good has upgrading done for you. Not only have you lost all available FlashROM with but you also lost the benefit of the "persistant storage" aspect of the new OS. The OS already can't be lost due to a hard-reset but your apps and files must now remain in RAM. Now you have a device with a shiny new OS but without the key benefits of it. What kind of choice is that? No choice at all to me. So to an extent strict control is necessary.
But I will say that there are some devices that will have enough memory left for some users but not the hard core users. Not with WM5, it just won't go to it's full potential. One problem I see is that if we could get just the OS and not all the MS sugar coated disfunctional software (put word, excel, etc, including manufacturers third-party stuff on a CD making them optional installs) put with it, it would be leaner and more useful to more devices.
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Making use of mobile tech like no other.
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