05-10-2005, 09:50 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Persistent Storage: What Does it Really Mean?
Remember that column I wrote late last year? Here's a quote from it:
"Ever wondered why many of the new high-end Pocket PCs come with twice as much Flash ROM as RAM? Here's why: Flash ROM, while slower than RAM, is permanent storage � meaning that if your device loses power, the apps/data in Flash ROM are still safe. Current Pocket PCs still use RAM for database and registry storage, so losing power will still put you in a world of hurt. If you look at the way Windows Mobile Smartphones work you can see where this might all be headed: everything will be in Flash ROM, and devices can come out of a battery-dead state without a hiccup."
I caught a lot of flack for that article because I was essentially stating that 64 MB of RAM was good enough for most people - what I couldn't do more than hint at was what you all learned today about Windows Mobile 5 (and something I've known for a while): persistent storage completely changes the way devices work with memory. Pocket PCs will now work the way they should have from the beginning. Just like on your desktop computer, RAM is used purely for executing programs. Storage will be purely the Flash ROM, and nary the twain shall meet. Suddenly that Dell Axim X50v with 128 MB of Flash ROM and only 64 MB of RAM makes sense, doesn't it? 64 MB is a good amount of execution space - most applications need between one and two MB of space to run, with some of the bigger games needing 10 MB or so. 64 MB of pure application execution space will go a lot further than the 25 MB or so that most of us have after a soft reset. Sweet! 
Another key advantage of this change is Pocket PCs will be a full "off" mode, one where zero power is used. While they're in off mode things like alarms won't work, but that also means you can leave it in your desk drawer for a month and it will still have juice when you fire it up again.
This is all "on paper" for the moment - I haven't seen any new Windows Mobile 5-based devices yet, but if my understanding of the persistent storage implementation is correct, this is a big step forward for our beloved Pocket PCs. I'm really looking forward to the new Windows Mobile 5 devices!
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05-10-2005, 09:55 PM
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Mystic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,734
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But of course one can never have enough memory. Have you ever tried to load a Fark thread at infinty on your pocketpc with pictures on?
Non-volatile Ram can be added easily via SD card. Execution Ram is much harder to add. 128MB will still be on my list.
Surur
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05-10-2005, 10:02 PM
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Oracle
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 864
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Re: Persistent Storage: What Does it Really Mean?
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
While they're in off mode things like alarms won't work
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Umm how is this a good thing?! BIG problem if this is true!
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05-10-2005, 10:05 PM
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 498
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I'm guessing that "off" mode will be a deep off mode while most of us will still use the suspend type thing. (Completely guessing here, but I don't see how even that would slip past the MS developers.)
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05-10-2005, 10:10 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Re: Persistent Storage: What Does it Really Mean?
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Originally Posted by entropy1980
Umm how is this a good thing?! BIG problem if this is true!
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Ok, so I can tell you've never used a Smartphone before. ;-) You never turn your Smartphone off if you want it to ring, chime alarms, etc. If you turn it OFF, it's the same as pulling the battery out. So of course alarms aren't going to work - it's OFF. Current Pocket PCs don't have an OFF mode - they have a SUSPEND mode. So this isn't taking away what we already have now, it's adding a feature that Smartphones already have. Makes sense?
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05-10-2005, 10:16 PM
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Oracle
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 864
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Re: Persistent Storage: What Does it Really Mean?
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
Ok, so I can tell you've never used a Smartphone before. ;-) You never turn your Smartphone off if you want it to ring, chime alarms, etc. If you turn it OFF, it's the same as pulling the battery out. So of course alarms aren't going to work - it's OFF. Current Pocket PCs don't have an OFF mode - they have a SUSPEND mode. So this isn't taking away what we already have now, it's adding a feature that Smartphones already have. Makes sense?
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Actually I have used and own several Smartphones. That makes sense I was equating Suspend = OFF . For instance: I don't put my Pocket PC in "suspend mode" I turn it off. But really it's suspended. I understand that but it just sounded funny. I think most people equate with what I am saying. If the screen is off people assume that means it's off, not in suspend mode, unless it's a phone which shuts the screen off yet still maintains network connectivity which is totally different that current Pocket PC's which lose connectivty when you put them in "suspend mode".
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05-10-2005, 10:19 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Re: Persistent Storage: What Does it Really Mean?
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Originally Posted by entropy1980
That makes sense I was equating Suspend = OFF . For instance: I don't put my Pocket PC in "suspend mode" I turn it off. But really it's suspended. I understand that but it just sounded funny. I think most people equate with what I am saying.
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If it's implemented in such a way that pressing the power button puts it into suspend and pressing and holding the power button turns the device off, I think this is a moot point. It won't be as big of a hurdle as you think it will be. ;-)
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05-10-2005, 10:23 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 316
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128 MB ROM and 64 MB RAM is a logical storage arrangement under the new memory management scheme, but the point many of us have been raising for a long time is that it is still insufficient for power users. Movies, map data, large web pages, complex documents, sophisticated games... all are memory hogs and can very easily exceed 64 MB, even with intelligent garbage collection. High end devices should still have at least 128 MB of RAM for these applications. 128 MB of RAM under WM5 will be more memory than 128 MB of RAM under earlier releases, but I consider that to be a much-needed bug fix. :twisted:
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05-10-2005, 10:23 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 251
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gee, sounds like they're migrating back to my 1997 apple newton's memory design. hmm.
m.
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05-10-2005, 10:24 PM
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Oracle
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 864
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Re: Persistent Storage: What Does it Really Mean?
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
If it's implemented in such a way that pressing the power button puts it into suspend and pressing and holding the power button turns the device off, I think this is a moot point. It won't be as big of a hurdle as you think it will be. ;-)
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I don't think it's a big deal, i just did when I thought you said when off (I read: suspended  ) alarms wouldn't work. Then that would be a big deal. But if they work as they are supposed to work now ( :wink: ) then it's a non-issue.
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