04-29-2005, 06:00 AM
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Swami
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,303
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Samsung Develops Hybrid Hard Drive: Flash Memory & Spinning Platter
"The hybrid hard drive prototype uses 1 Gigabit OneNAND Flash as both the write buffer and boot buffer. In the hybrid write mode, the mechanical drive is spun down for the majority of the time, while data is written to the Flash write buffer. When the write buffer is filled, the rotating drive spins and the data from the write buffer is written to the hard drive. . . . In addition, since the Samsung hybrid disk drive operates at a lower temperature than traditional rotating media, it reduces the possibility of shock and impact damage, improving the overall reliability of the disk subsystem."
Now this is more than promising. :-) These new hybrid drives will probably be slightly more expensive than normal hard drives, but there will be 95% power savings when the disk is not spinning, faster boot times and lower maintenance costs due to increased reliability. These hybrid drives were developed with Longhorn in mind, but would seem to be exactly what we need for large amounts of mobile data storage on Pocket PCs. I wonder if we'll end up calling them semi-hard hard drives, flashy-hard disks, hybrid disks (HHDs) or something else equally unwieldy? Would the hybridisation be enough to get you to buy a PPC with one (the best of both worlds), or do you reckon that spinning platters in mobile devices is an inherently unredeemably bad idea?
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04-29-2005, 10:27 AM
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Mystic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,734
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I thought flash memory had limited write cycles. This must have changed, because caching hard drive writes must be the most demanding application one could think of to use this tech in.
Its an interesting idea, but i wonder why they concentrate on writes, when reading is what happens most often on a PC. This well help for e.g. web browsing, where your info comes of the network, and you are only caching small pictures and text pages. This wont however help when watching videos or listening to music. 1 gigabit is only about ? 120 Mb in any case.
Surur
Edit: gigabyte changed to gigabit
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04-29-2005, 11:07 AM
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Swami
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,303
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Surur
I thought flash memory had limited write cycles. This must have changed, because caching hard drive writes must be the most demanding application one could think of to use this tech in.
Its an interesting idea, but i wonder why they concentrate on writes, when reading is what happens most often on a PC. This well help for e.g. web browsing, where your info comes of the network, and you are only caching small pictures and text pages. This wont however help when watching videos or listening to music. 1 gigabyte is only about ? 120 Mb in any case.
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Funnily enough, that's also what ArsTechnica thought:
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From what I've read, NAND flash is good only for from 100,000 to 1 million writes, which doesn't seem like a lot to me if it's being used as a hard drive replacement
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We'll have to keep an eye on this one....
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Originally Posted by Surur
1 gigabyte is only about ? 120 Mb in any case.
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Sure, but that's enough for two albums of music and should be sufficient for a commute or trip under 2 hours. After that the hard drive can just briefly spin up again to fill the cache.
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04-29-2005, 11:52 AM
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Mystic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,734
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Actually that would be quite difficult to implement, unless the OS can tell the HHD pro-actively which files to pre-cache (like a playlist). Otherwise I imagine what would be stored would the directory structure, and then any file you are reading or writing. From them on if you access that file again you will be accessing the cached copy, for both reads and writes. If its a new file e.g. a web page or a download it will go to the cache first. When you try and access a file which is not in the cache it will load it from the hard drive, and at the same time commit any of the changes to the cached files to the disk. The use of flash memory stops you from having half-written files and corrupted files on the hdd if you have sudden power loss.
Its actually quite cool, now that I have thought about it for a bit. Like I said earlier though, it would work very well for simple office work or web browsing, but as soon as it comes to media usage it wont perform as well, unless they increase the cache to several gigabytes, at which point you would load the whole movie to cache and watch it from there.
Surur
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04-29-2005, 01:26 PM
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Swami
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,303
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Surur
Its actually quite cool, now that I have thought about it for a bit.
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Agreed. Almost as cool as your new subtly animated avatar. :wink: What it is btw?
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Originally Posted by Surur
...as soon as it comes to media usage it wont perform as well, unless they increase the cache to several gigabytes, at which point you would load the whole movie to cache and watch it from there.
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Again, it depends on what sort of media. For my 1 hour train journeys each day, I believe the buffer would be sufficient for a few albums of MP3s. With properly optimised software, this subtle tweak to an exiting technology could be exceptionally useful. 
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04-29-2005, 02:49 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,202
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I think we need to see how this shakes out and is implemented. If they can technically manage how and what data is store in the Flash memory, as well as provide enough of it the possibilities are endless. Though I think this holds more potential for ultra-mini laptops than Windows Mobile devices.
Imagine if Windows XP could boot from Flash ROM - no more waiting for the Device to turn on - Instant on and off like our PC's. Then when you're listening to MP3's or watching a video - the entire playlist could be cached to the flash memory so the hard drive can spin down and save battery life. If they could put that type of hardware/software combination in a device the size and shape of the OQO I would probably retire my WM devices once and for all.
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04-29-2005, 03:33 PM
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Swami
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,303
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by whydidnt
Imagine if Windows XP could boot from Flash ROM - no more waiting for the Device to turn on - Instant on and off like our PC's.
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Well, that is the idea behind the drives after all. From ArsTechnica:
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Longhorn will have built-in support for the hybrid drive technology, with part of the OS stored in the flash buffer for faster boot times.
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Originally Posted by whydidnt
I would probably retire my WM devices once and for all.
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Maybe, but by then you will be running a WM phone, won't you. :wink:
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04-30-2005, 06:34 PM
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Swami
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,396
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Auxiliary Displays
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Originally Posted by Jonathon Watkins
From ArsTechnica:
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Longhorn will have built-in support for the hybrid drive technology, with part of the OS stored in the flash buffer for faster boot times.
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I thought these might be used for the auxiliary displays Microsoft is pushing. For those that haven't read about them, they're displays mounted on the top of a laptop cover that are able to display E-mail and PIM information without having to boot up the laptop.
Here's how I would see them working in Longhorn. When the user shuts down the laptop, the hard disk could copy the PIM and E-mail information to the flash memory, allowing user access without having to retrieve the information from disk.
As others have said, I'd be worried about write cycles, too. Of course, it depends how these were actually used. If you only wrote to the flash when you shut the laptop down, it would last over 68 years assuming 100,000 writes maximum and 4 shutdowns per day.
Looked at another way, you'd have to write a bit 54 times per day for over 5 years to get a failure. How many of us keep a laptop for 5 years without replacing the hard drive?
Steve
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08-09-2006, 08:14 AM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1
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I would have thought that two different mechanisms mean twice as much chance of failure (probability wise) Well, we will just have to wait and see.
I will not be getting one until there are many people that have tried them and find them reliable.
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