01-26-2005, 11:00 AM
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Swami
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,303
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Java Applications on Pocket PC Platform: Why Not?
"I've thought of 5 reasons why PocketPC is not a popular platform for Java apps. I'm asking the Java community for comments on PocketPC and PDA development in general. Why do I care? I spent a year working on a Java/PocketPC project and subsequently have put up the Java on PocketPC (unofficial FAQ) which is starting to get a decent number of search hits. I have a few thoughts that I'm just going to list out."
Vik has indeed thought of several reasons why Java on the PPC has not been widely adopted yet. Suggests include the possibility that that developers may be ignoring a formidable device platform for purely 'religious' reasons and that folks just simply don't know where to begin. To fix that last point you can certainly make a good start with Val's 'Java on PocketPC' FAQ. So why do you guys think that we haven't had too many tasty Java applications brewed for the Pocket PC Platform?
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01-26-2005, 03:08 PM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3
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Well, for one thing you have to buy the JVM in addition to the application that you want to run - it's not expensive, but an extra hassle and cost to deal with. It's amazing how little patience people have when they need to put in just a little extra effort.
In addition, I've often found Java applications to be quite resource-intensive, which is probably not ideal for a PocketPC. I'm always having to keep an eye on memory usage on my own PPC as it is.
Pete
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01-26-2005, 03:23 PM
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Swami
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,303
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A very harty welcome to you Pajjy. And how is Edinburgh these days? :wink:
Interesting points. I know for myself that is something is fiddly, I tend not to do it.  ops: Inertia and hassle are two great drags factors.....
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01-26-2005, 04:04 PM
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Theorist
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 276
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Re: Java Applications on Pocket PC Platform: Why Not?
Most Java app's I've ever used have been resource hogs and very slow at what they do. I think the PPC is slow enough already, why make it slower???
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01-26-2005, 04:07 PM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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Cool article 
Running applets (especially evaluating NetFront's Java support) are missing from the article, though. Also, I would have welcome some cool 'hacks', like making JDK1.1-only Personal Java JVM's run (almost full-fledged) J2SE applications. (I have played a lot with PPC JVM's and am pretty happy with their hackability.)
Also, I recommend the thread http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/foru...ic.php?t=36013 for people interested in a step-by-step tutorial of installing the IBM JVM and some games for it.
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01-26-2005, 04:08 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 22
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A valid point, perhaps, but much lesser devices (I'm thinking cell phones) have the JVM in ROM and are capable of running small java apps like games.
Microsoft's disdain for Java might be an issue, but it shouldn't be too hard for a vendor to bundle a JVM into a PPC ROM image.
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01-26-2005, 04:15 PM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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Re: Java Applications on Pocket PC Platform: Why Not?
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Originally Posted by egads
Most Java app's I've ever used have been resource hogs and very slow at what they do. I think the PPC is slow enough already, why make it slower???
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Running Java applets (with Jeode's PIE plug-in or NetFront) is pretty cool though. And, the ability to run J2ME games is pretty cool too because there're tons of them at http://midlet.org/ .
And, there're quite a few apps running flawlessly under (prolly, hacked and J2SE-upgraded) Jeode. Jeode is indeed a resource hog, but, for example, generating PDF files on a PDA is only possible from inside Java apps because there's absolutely no native applications to do this.
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01-26-2005, 04:16 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 713
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From a developer's standpoint, I haven't see any reason to go the Java route on a Pocket PC, especially with the .NET CF available. You have to get a JVM (which usually isn't free and takes up space) versus .NET CF which is either free to download or included in ROM with the device. Then there's the whole confusing JAVA world of Personal Java, Micro Java, CLDC, MIDP, MIDLETs, yadda yadda yadda. There's a pretty big learning curve just to get the development environment figured out. Until recently, Sun's web site was close to impossible to figure out from a newbie standpoint. IBM has put out a lot of stuff for Pocket PC but it's still hard to figure out just what you need.
I think Sun and IBM are moving to clear a lot of this up, but the whole lack of standard JVM for Pocket PC is still problematic. Sun doesn't seem to want to invest in the Pocket PC platform at all, and IBM is mainly interested in the desktop. Maybe if one or the other would acknowledge the platform and write some starter material for developers we'd see more interest.
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01-26-2005, 04:32 PM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,067
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Dodd
You have to get a JVM (which usually isn't free and takes up space) versus .NET CF which is either free to download or included in ROM with the device. Then there's the whole confusing JAVA world of Personal Java, Micro Java, CLDC, MIDP, MIDLETs, yadda yadda yadda. There's a pretty big learning curve just to get the development environment figured out.
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I disagree. I've been programming in Java since its inception (started early 1996) and had no problem in absorbing new versions. Sure, J2ME is pretty different from J2SE, but it's not very hard to learn either if you already know J2SE.
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just to get the development environment figured out.
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You can always code in a simple, lightweight Java editor like JCreator. I mostly don't use any kind of IDE either.
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Until recently, Sun's web site was close to impossible to figure out from a newbie standpoint. IBM has put out a lot of stuff for Pocket PC but it's still hard to figure out just what you need.
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That's, unfortunately, right. However, if one gets a decent Java intro book (e.g., Horstmann's Core Java - http://www.horstmann.com/corejava.html ), he/she won't have problems in absorving new info/technologies after that. Sure, a book on J2ME will also be needed if he/she wants to code for J2ME too.
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I think Sun and IBM are moving to clear a lot of this up, but the whole lack of standard JVM for Pocket PC is still problematic. Sun doesn't seem to want to invest in the Pocket PC platform at all, and IBM is mainly interested in the desktop. Maybe if one or the other would acknowledge the platform and write some starter material for developers we'd see more interest.
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Sun has indeed made a mistake by completely ignoring WinCE. However, as there're tons of Java code already, and a lot of them CAN be run on the PPC (think of, for example, the vast number of networking apps that won't ever be rewritten/converted to WinCE.NET!), the situation is not that bad. (Except for the lack of a REAL JVM that is not a resource hog, is up-to-date without major hacking from the user's part and has good speed.)
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01-26-2005, 04:59 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
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I have been a multimedia developer for about 8 years now. I've been hearing for years about how amazing Java is and how it will take over the world and solve all our cross-platform issues.
I think I can count on the fingers of one had the number of Java applats I encounter each YEAR on the web (maybe I lead a sheltered life) and no-one has ever approached me requiring me to create a Java solution.
So while the Java community is still certain they are really important, and everywhere, I have yet to be convinced(leaving aside Mobile phones that is ...). That's the main reason I don't care about Java for PPC. Why bother when everything I need, and everything my clients need, is already there without Java?
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Linear Mode
