11-07-2004, 07:00 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Cookies Are Not Spyware
I've had two emails in the past week from Pocket PC Thoughts asking why we're distributing "spyware" onto their computers. We're not - it's that simple. What people are seeing is over-protective anti-spyware software treating normal cookies like spyware.
In this case, Avenue A (one of the third-party advertisers that serves up banners when we don't have our own paying ad) is doing nothing more than dropping a cookie on your machine. The cookie is like every other advertising cookie from DoubleClick and other large advertising agencies: it tracks what ads you've seen so it doesn't show you the same ad more than "X" times.
It's grossly irresponsible for these anti-spyware companies to treat cookies like spyware. REAL spyware is malicious, machine-hijacking junk that throw pop-ups on your computer, resets your start page, and all sorts of other ugly tricks. A cookie is a text file that has some non-personal information what banner ads have shown on certain sites. That's it.
Go ahead and open the cookie on your computer and you'll see it's harmless. Cookies are not spyware, no matter how hard these anti-spyware companies try to make them out to be. You have to realize that these guys are trying to sell their software too, and if they start blocking cookies as well, they give the perception that they're "protecting" you even more often. They have an agenda too - think about it. ;-)
It's also worth noting how many cookies are used - I deleted all my cookies yesterday, and in only 24 hours of Web browsing I have more than 50 on my computer. It's the way the Web works, but it's not spyware.
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11-07-2004, 08:14 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,329
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Umm Jason. I hate to tell you this but there are components of ad/spyware that do use cookies. It�s just like any tech. It can be used for good or evil. Personally I would rather have a piece of software be over protective then under. The thing is the user on the other end should be smart enough to look at the cookie in question and make the determination that this isn't spyware or a component of spyware or at the very least the software should stress that this MAY be a component of spyware. At any rate I think it�s stupid that people are coming at you with this accusation. Anyone with half a brain should realize that this is a legit site. If you guys tried doing the adware thing PPCT would be a memory overnight. I don�t think anyone would accept a site that gets its cash flow to keep the site up through adware distribution. Esp from a site that consists of geeks. I would say we are more sensitive to ad/spyware then most others. 
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11-07-2004, 08:25 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jonathan1
Umm Jason. I hate to tell you this but there are components of ad/spyware that do use cookies. It�s just like any tech. It can be used for good or evil.
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While I appreciate your support in stating that Pocket PC Thoughts wouldn't distribute spyware, I don't really agree with your opinion of cookies. I've never seen or heard of an instance where a simple text file could do anything that real spyware can do. Cookies can only do one thing, and that one thing isn't malicious or even capable of generating income for the distributor of the cookie, which is certainly a defining characteristic of spyware. The attitude of "cookies are evil spyware" is what I'm trying to dispel, but you seem to think otherwise. If you have some proof, I'd love to see it!
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11-07-2004, 08:38 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 315
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in a secure non buggy browser, cookies are restricted so that a certain web site can only look at the cookies it creates. Now then, MANY complex banner sites like double click heavily use cookies to a) keep track of what banners you have seen so far, and b) what doubeclick affiliated site you have been visiting (it wont know what sites who dont sign up to doubleclick you are viewing) for statistics. Many ad sites use cookies as an easy form of anonymouse statistic gathering.
There is simply no way these sites can view your other cookies. Cookies are a well accepted and very usefull practice that has been around since shortly after GUI web browsers.
You can allways disable cookies if you are really scared, but the majority of saved password and board setting features require their use. Infact most board systems require cookies if you wish to simply stay logged in while browsing the boards.
Thankfully I havnt come accross any of these crappy anti viruse programs.
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11-07-2004, 08:42 AM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4
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Cookies Spyware Or Not
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
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Originally Posted by Jonathan1
Umm Jason. I hate to tell you this but there are components of ad/spyware that do use cookies. It�s just like any tech. It can be used for good or evil.
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While I appreciate your support in stating that Pocket PC Thoughts wouldn't distribute spyware, I don't really agree with your opinion of cookies. I've never seen or heard of an instance where a simple text file could do anything that real spyware can do. Cookies can only do one thing, and that one thing isn't malicious or even capable of generating income for the distributor of the cookie, which is certainly a defining characteristic of spyware. The attitude of "cookies are evil spyware" is what I'm trying to dispel, but you seem to think otherwise. If you have some proof, I'd love to see it! |
The original meaning of the term spyware is software that is secretly installed on your computer along with some "freeware" that silently monitors your surfing habbits and reports it to some advertizing company to further enhance their effectiveness in targetting the right demography for certain products.
Then that software became more intrusive and took over people's computers. Start pages, search pages, pop ups and so on starting annoying people. Still they used the term spyware for that kind of software.
But cookies can and are used to track people's habbits. And when that information about where YOU surf is collected, merged, and available for inspection without your consent then that's an invasion of your privacy. Hence cookies can be used as "spyware".
Whether tracking what ads you've already seen to avoid annoying you is a "service" or "spyware" is another discussion altogether. I think it's applaudable that an advertizing company tries to reduce the nuisance factor of ads by removing redundant ads.
But the question here is can and are cookies used as "spyware" as in "invading your privacy". And yes, I think they are.
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11-07-2004, 08:49 AM
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Sage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 761
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This is the definition I found:
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A Tracking Cookie, also known as a Spyware Cookie, is any Cookie that is collectively shared among unrelated websites for the intention of tracking and sharing a user�s surfing habits. Each particular website will recognize and read the Tracking Cookie while also accumulating additional information for future sites.
Tracking Cookies are mainly used to collect a user�s tendencies such as pages observed, advertisements viewed or any other behavioral activity. This valuable marketing data can then be used by the website to display highly relevant advertisements to match each particular user�s preferences.
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11-07-2004, 08:50 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Re: Cookies Spyware Or Not
And so the privacy advocate comes out with his first post... ;-) Welcome to Pocket PC Thoughts, home of the cookie! :lol:
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Originally Posted by GroovBird
But cookies can and are used to track people's habits. And when that information about where YOU surf is collected, merged, and available for inspection without your consent then that's an invasion of your privacy. Hence cookies can be used as "spyware"
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I'd challenge that assertion by pointing out that without knowing your identity, without aggregation of that data to form individual profiles, it's not a violation of your privacy. When I drive my car down a street and drive over one of those traffic counters, is my privacy violated because someone is counting my car to measure the flow of traffic? No, not unless it's also scanning my license plate to learn about me personally. In my opinion, non-personalized data collection is not a violation of anyone's privacy.
Privacy is certainly an issue worth protecting in this day and age, but being paranoid helps no one. I remember this issue of advertisers tracking ad views through cookies came up in the late '90s, and certain people were mad about it for, oh, 5 minutes. Then when spyware really started to come out, people realized what TRUE privacy violations were...and cookies 'aint that.
Anyway, I think I've said all I will say on the subject. People are welcome to block cookies if they wish, but please, no one email me asking why they're getting spyware warnings. ;-)
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11-07-2004, 09:01 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
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Jason: Sorry, but you're simply off-base on this one. Cookies placed by third-party ad vendors are there for one central reason... to track the user's movements within a site, and between sites.
That's not a conspiracy by pro-privacy software developers (many of whom toil for free, by the way)... it's just a fact.
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and that one thing isn't malicious or even capable of generating income for the distributor of the cookie
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Profiling users and monetizing those profiles are what ad networks are all about.
Now, with that said... I agree that cookies aren't spyware. They're not any kind of "ware", for that matter. They are potential privacy hazards, but they have no inherent ability to hijack a machine or otherwise interfere with the normal use of the OS.
They are simply text files that uniquely identify a browser in some ad agency's database. And as such, are appropriate targets for deletion by pro-privacy applications.
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11-07-2004, 09:06 AM
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Sage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 761
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We don't have to worry, the privacy policy clearly states:
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Information About You
Thoughts Media may from time to time ask you to provide information about yourself to us on a voluntary basis, through surveys, polls, and as a requirement for entry into Thoughts Media contests. This information may include your name, address, telephone number, Zip Code, e-mail address, sex, age range, the types of devices you use, planned purchases, and what kinds of features you prefer in a PDA.
Thoughts Media aggregates this information to determine trends, preferences, and demographics about the handheld community in general. We will use this aggregated information to study the trends of our user community. Occasionally we may provide this aggregate data to the sponsors of Thoughts Media. Specific information such as name, email address, or other contact information will never be shared with sponsors.
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that means all the info gathered is being gathered voluntarily.
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11-07-2004, 09:09 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 315
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juuni, unfortunatly that defenitition is false. Cookies can not be accessed by unrealated sites. "the man" is not out to massivly collect information out of all the sites you access.
The compleat and total extent of multisite tracking, is when say, 2 unrealted web sites who have signed up to doubleclick ad services and display a doubleclick ad on their pages. When you bring up each sites respective page, the site itself does not access the doubleclick cookie, but the doubleclick ad from the doubleclick site accesses that cookie. Now the doubleclick ad using the ID number from the banner in the html code will know which site you polled for a banner from, and so it will in turn know that you visited that site, but that is all.
Its like walking into a mall and 2 of the stores has a huge poster in thier doorway from some advertiser, and theres a big honken video camera ontop of the poster. The advertiser will know its you when you walk into those 2 stores, but it has no clue if you have walked into any of the other stores in the mall.
Rogben, in said database, my "unique identification" would be something like the number 9838765243. They dont know my name, sex, or if im even human.
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