08-06-2004, 03:00 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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HP's New Rules for Enthusiast Sites - And Why I Resigned from the Program
"Here is the skinny. On June 18, 2004 I received an email invitation from HP.(see below) It was asking us to moderate our users posts to delete references of the "rumored" models...Anyhow, there were other things HP was asking me to do related to "rumors". They wanted us to discontinue posting leaked info as well. I was willing to do this. What were we getting out of this deal? Early evaluation units of new products 1-60 days pre-launch (at HP's discretion and dependent on availability) and a few other info related benefits that, in my opinion, should be available to media without selling out..."
The above text is taken from a post on Ipaq HQ, written by Chris Leckness. Chris also runs AximSite, and is a great evangelist for the Windows Mobile platform. Chris and I have been talking about this for the past month, and I decided that I should post on this and take a public stance on it myself (I meant to do it a week ago). First, go read Chris' post and the requirements that HP was asking of him. I received the same letter. Here are my reasons for resigning from the program...
For the past year and a half, I've was a part of HPs enthusiast program. I worked with some really great people, and they did their best to provide me with early information and hardware for review. I got a chance to talk to the product manager for the 6300 earlier this year, get some good info about the unit, and give him some feedback about how I felt they could improve the product (on paper at least - I still haven't seen a 6300 in person). A good example of this arrangement was the iPAQ 2215 review that I did a year ago last month. HP sent me the unit about a week before they were in the stores, and I was able to get a long, detailed review published within 24 hours of it being fully public.
What did I give HP in return? My agreement with them was not to publish NDA information that was sent to us. That means that if someone had sent me a PowerPoint slide deck a month earlier with details on the 2215, I wouldn't publish it. However, if that information was public to the general community and other Web sites were posting on it, I was allowed to link to it, as long as I didn't add any of my own NDA knowledge to the mix. This is the same NDA I have with Microsoft as an MVP. It wasn't perfect, but I felt it was a good balance between giving HP something they wanted (plugging one hole in the leaky wall), yet still allowing me to point all of you to hot rumours and news on other sites. The worst thing would be to have to pretend I'm off in la-la land and not be able to even post a link to a new device that the rest of the community is buzzing about.
Yet that's exactly what HP was asking me to do with this new agreement - and, worse, they were asking me to delete posts made by you that mentioned a non-released product. Could you imagine what a hostile place this would become if my team and I had to nuke every post that mentioned something that wasn't fully public?
There's much more I could rant on here, such as why a certain employee of HP involved with this evangelist program is seemingly posting supportive comments in the forums of a site that signed up for the program, and posting derisive comments in the forum of a site that didn't sign up. There's also the issue of sites only following some of the rules HP laid out...but I won't get into that. :wink:
Ultimately HP can run their business any way they want. This enthusiast program was a perk to me, and to this site, not something that I have a right to. They changed the rules, I don't like the new rules, and I quit. HP owes me nothing more than that.
Yet as someone who has a post-secondary degree in public relations, and teaches public relations and technology at a college level, I firmly believe HP couldn't have picked a worse PR tactic. Their new approach to interacting with the people who support their product is both short-sighted and ultimately damaging. It reeks of 1990's thinking. HP's new management doesn't understand community, and it's only going to hurt their efforts in this market. Alienating your biggest supporters is not the way to build relationships.
engadget also weighs in with their opinion - I'd be interested in hearing yours.
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08-06-2004, 03:11 PM
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Oracle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 980
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Just one question... from where all that information about new devices coming to the market is coming from? Well, that's the source of information that HP should find and close. To me, to request this kind of agreement is unrespecful, period.
As a web master myself I�m with you too. I wont change the freedom of saying what I want and how I want for anything in this life, and God knows that I have paid a big price to do that.
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08-06-2004, 03:14 PM
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Mystic
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,725
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Good decision Jason.  I can understand a NDA, but deleting rumor posts? Come on, that's a no-no. Hopefully other community sites will feel the same and HP will change their policy.
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08-06-2004, 03:14 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ctitanic
Just one question... from where all that information about new devices coming to the market is coming from?
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From inside HP, typically their sales staff who have PowerPoint slide decks showing upcoming models. They give presentations to big enterprise clients. Although sometimes I think those big enterprise clients get the slides from the HP sales guys then send them to their friends - "Hey, check out these new Pocket PCs!" - then they show up everywhere.
Ultimately I believe HP is trying to clamp down on the wrong location - it's not enthusiast sites that are leaking information, it's HP themselves.
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08-06-2004, 03:15 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 87
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The PDA market isnt the only place HP tries to strong arm peopel into hushing or whatever.
My company resells HP-UX, and they have used their tactics in a similar fasion. AND, we also resigned from their "programs".
HP = huffu puffy !
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08-06-2004, 03:20 PM
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Oracle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 980
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ctitanic
Just one question... from where all that information about new devices coming to the market is coming from?
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Ultimately I believe HP is trying to clamp down on the wrong location - it's not enthusiast sites that are leaking information, it's HP themselves. |
That�s my point.
Another question? Does HP really believe that if you start to moderate your forum and delete those post pointing to that kind of info, you will keep the same popularity that you have right now.
Let me tell you something HP... I dog Lucky would be a good candidat to replace the person who thought about this stupid agreement  If you are interested on him, I can send you his resume 
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08-06-2004, 03:25 PM
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Oracle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 980
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BTW, who was the genius from HP that thought that it was a good idea to install a beta version of SE in some h2200s during a Pocket PC show and then a few weeks later to come with the statement that they wont release SE on those devices. That is showing me a big disrespect for us, customers and supporters. :evil:
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08-06-2004, 03:37 PM
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Magi
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,341
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HP...who the hell is HP? Aren't they the guys who used to make really cool Ipaqs? Sometimes the king of the hill gets a bit to big for his own good.
Dave
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08-06-2004, 03:38 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 217
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
Ultimately I believe HP is trying to clamp down on the wrong location - it's not enthusiast sites that are leaking information, it's HP themselves.
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Exactly, they give presentations all over the world to business customers who leak it all over the place and then try to stifle excitement in the PDA community. I would think most of the time this excitement is good for the products, unless of course we are talking about the lousy 1715.
If HP wants to keep the lid on news then they need to limit what enterprise customers are being shown or tighten the NDA with those people.
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08-06-2004, 03:51 PM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,133
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To me, something that really stands out is word choice. Jason says he used to be a member of their "Enthusiast Program". That sounds pretty good. The title of the program now? Evangelist. To me, that word is over the top. When someone is an evangelist of basically anything, but I'm mainly talking about a gadget, a PDA, an OS, etc, it generally means that they promote it to the exclusion of all others, will not permit anything "bad" (even if true!) to be said about it, and are generally not very fun to talk to. HP seems to want these sites to act more as employees than third-party enthusiasts, and unless they're going to pony up a salary, health plan, and retirement plan, it's a bit unreasonable.
As a moderator, deleting posts is not my favorite job (despite what some may think. If you want to talk about that, though - start a new thread - don't use this one). Especially *informative* posts that are not in any way antagonistic, etc. It's one thing for a company to ask the staff to not post in exchange for the staff being able to see these devices. But to ask essentially that the USERS not be able to post? About info that's "out" anyway?
If they're worried about internal info getting out, they need to work on their internal practices, and stop the problem THERE rather than requiring that everyone else clean up their mess.
And what about information posted at the FCC? They seem to be saying that people aren't allowed to post "Hey - I saw this device at the FCC - is it the new ipaq?". I'm sorry, but that is most definitely public information. And if they don't like it, then they can lobby for FCC filings to not be made public. But until then, people are certainly allowed to look at those filings, and it would *NOT* be considered "industrial espionage" or anything like that. I mean... it's PUBLIC. It's as public as you can get. Not leaked, just PUBLIC.
I hope that very few sites agree to these terms. Maybe if HP gets an overwhelming number of rejections to this, they'll stop and wonder why. Maybe.
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