12-24-2003, 03:00 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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More Bluetooth Madness
http://www.ppcw.net/desktop.php?itemid=1681
Arne Hess has just received a new laptop that includes Bluetooth. Being a mobile devices nut, his goal was to allow synchronization with his various devices to his laptop.
"Companies like Sony do their own stuff just to protect their product range? As you remember I bought a new Notebook which also includes Bluetooth now. One reason to buy a Notebook with Bluetooth was - for sure - to use Bluetooth with other devices (at least that's what Bluetooth was created for - isn't it Mr. Sony ) While my Notebook works as a beauty to make a GPRS dial-up connection through my PPCW.Net i-Mate Smartphone2 (aka Orange SPV E200/HTC Voyager) this Bluetooth Sony software on the Notebook doesn't want to work as a serial connection with ActiveSync. While I first thought I'm to dumb, a Google search offered me some hints and the most important result is I'm not alone."
Come on people! These various profiles in Bluetooth are going to be its undoing. You can't do serial with this device, and that device has no headset profile, and the device over there can't see the bluetooth keyboard, and these two won't talk to each other for who knows what reason. :evil: There is additional info at InfoSync.
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12-24-2003, 03:44 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 120
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Re: More Bluetooth Madness
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Come on people! These various profiles in Bluetooth are going to be its undoing.
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thought it had gone far too long since the last Hansberry Bluetooth Rant or HBR 
it is the non-interoperable implementation by some companies that cause the major headaches, i.e. devices that should work together but don't
this is the same kind of situation that dogged Nokia's initial Bluetooth implementation - only their Card and Digianswer based drivers (now the Socket card) were able to sync with their initial Bluetooth handsets... they finally implemented a fix for some of their handsets several months later after many complaints...
it's good to see PPCW.net highlight these issues so that the companies producing such proprietary solutions are pressured to sort out their interoperability...
however, you appear to be mixing profile interoperability and specific Bluetooth profile support offered by various devices this HBR - they are separate issues...
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12-24-2003, 03:54 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 56
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If it were me, I would
RETURN the hardware, and let them know why!
Money(or the loss of sales) talks. I would also call support, ask for a manager, and voice my opinion again.
If I was extremely upset, I might buy the several Sony notebooks at different stores, and return them all! Then the retail chains would complain to Sony as well, about the number of returns....(Yes, I can be evil, but if it makes them listen and adhere to standards....)
Oh well, just my .02...
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12-24-2003, 04:16 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Re: More Bluetooth Madness
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Originally Posted by DubWireless
[owever, you appear to be mixing profile interoperability and specific Bluetooth profile support offered by various devices this HBR - they are separate issues...
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Call it whatever you want. This is bluetooth. It doesn't work. Sort of like when your car doesn't run. You don't care why, you just want it to work.
I like "HBR" though. 
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12-24-2003, 04:57 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 120
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Re: More Bluetooth Madness
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
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Originally Posted by DubWireless
[owever, you appear to be mixing profile interoperability and specific Bluetooth profile support offered by various devices this HBR - they are separate issues...
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Call it whatever you want. This is Bluetooth. It doesn't work. |
when two manufacturers (or even the same one!) have issues getting the same profile working together is where the major hassle is - and continues being a problem / headache  - and this is where rants / exposure of specific issues can hopefully get a solution delivered from those concerned
why specific profiles are included or left out is separate - and Bluetooth profiles are a major factor that makes this technology so good - it's one of the biggest misunderstandings that because two devices have Bluetooth they should immediately be able to do everything together - it takes the cable connection away - it isn't magic!
my Bluetooth phone should print to that Bluetooth printer - ok but are there printer drivers available?; my Bluetooth GPS unit should direct me using my Bluetooth headset - sure where are the instructions to be processed?; my PDA doesn�t work with a Bluetooth keyboard - ok, but Bluetooth PDA keyboards still aren't available yet and neither are the drivers � when they product and drivers are then the profile should be implemented...
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Sort of like when your car doesn't run. You don't care why, you just want it to work.
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true - but my car not running because two things that should work together aren't working (like the gas and the engine) is different from my car not doing something it isn't designed or capable of doing (like hover!)
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
I like "HBR" though. |
cool 
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12-24-2003, 05:20 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 484
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Re: More Bluetooth Madness
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Call it whatever you want. This is bluetooth. It doesn't work. Sort of like when your car doesn't run. You don't care why, you just want it to work.
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Well I would hope that you are just a little better informed than the car owner that calls the shop and says "my car doesn't work - fix it!" Mechanic: "What seems to be the problem sir?" Ed: "How should I know? You're the mechanic!"
The handful of Bluetooth profiles are specifically designed to standardize interoperability. You should focus your attacks on the companies like Sony and Nokia (and often Microsoft) that choose to ignore such standards instead of assuming that the standard should be able to overcome the companies' attempts at creating islands of technology for themselves. The good news is that things are set to improve: Ericsson (not Sony-Ericsson) has announced a Bluetooth interoperability testing program. You can read about it on my www.BluetoothNews.com site (the link is about three articles down on the right side.)
I agree with the others here: If Sony doesn't provide a simple serial profile for Bluetooth in their notebook, then the unit should be returned and replaced with something that provides this basic Bluetooth feature.
Bluetooth profiles are an excellent way to avoid the need for custom drivers for each device you wish to use. Instead, for example, any phone and headset that properly follow the standard will talk - without loading new software. We all seem to forget that USB is not really "plug-and-play" since you most often need to install the drivers for a new device before pluging it in. Falure to do things in the right order can be very problematic for the typical user. And how about when my Smartphone can't connect to my laptop via USB? Does that mean that USB is bad, or the specific driver for my Smartphone? And let's not even get into how much support I need to give to Wi-Fi users, or how many times my own laptop drops its Wi-Fi connection seemingly for no reason at all! And Wi-Fi is a single purpose (just a wireless Ethernet connection) standard that some poeple claim Bluetooth should emulate. If these are the standards to which Bluetooth is being compaired, well... :roll:
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12-24-2003, 06:28 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Re: More Bluetooth Madness
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Originally Posted by daS
The handful of Bluetooth profiles are specifically designed to standardize interoperability.
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There are 25 profiles at http://www.palowireless.com/infotoot...l/profiles.asp and a note saying there are "A number of additional Bluetooth profiles are currently in the final stages of development."
If they are designed to standardize interoperability, it fails. Everyone takes potshots at me for my stance on bluetooth as if I am on some jihad against it. I'm not. I use BT daily. I still wouldn't recommend anything to a family member or friend that I didn't explicitly know works, because I know for a fact that the bluetooth logo is 100% worthless when it comes to compatibility and interoperability.
Maybe that is what the BT consortium needs. A logo done by an outside testing lab that guarantees the device will work with all other devices with the logo where applicable. For example, no one would expect a printer to have a headset profile, but a PC or Pocket PC would be expected to work with both simultaneously and flawlessly. Palm of course could work with both but not simultaneously until OS6. :twisted: Then the market will start buying only logo'd devices, incentivising OEMs to get the logo. Sort of like the Windows logo. I wouldn't consider buying hardware without the Windows logo on it.
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12-24-2003, 06:30 PM
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Theorist
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 267
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Heck, return the friggin notebook and give them a neon sign for the reason you're returning it, then buy an el cheapo BT dongle that works. I got a a D-Link one for $30, it's only less than an inch long.
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12-24-2003, 06:41 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Re: More Bluetooth Madness
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Originally Posted by daS
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Call it whatever you want. This is bluetooth. It doesn't work. Sort of like when your car doesn't run. You don't care why, you just want it to work.
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Well I would hope that you are just a little better informed than the car owner that calls the shop and says "my car doesn't work - fix it!" Mechanic: "What seems to be the problem sir?" Ed: "How should I know? You're the mechanic!" |
On that point, you are very likely more informed.
I could do rudimentary troubleshooting. I have as much inclination to tear into the dark corners of BT interoperability as I had inclination to tear into the vagaries of config.sys himem commands to get drivers and TSRs to load in DOS. That is to say, very little.
Most people are going to give up or take it back to the store and get someone there to configure if the bonding wizard doesn't work the first time.
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12-24-2003, 07:52 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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Ed,
We take 'potshots' at you for consistently hitting the wrong target - and frankly it's becoming something of an entertainment in terms of your total predictability.
Companies such as Sony and MS are deliberately crippling an open standard in order to force people down proprietorial routes. Of course the general public don't care about this - but that doesn't change the simple fact that thet it is not, despite your prejudices, the standard that is to blame! You know full well that it is wilful refusal to implement the necessary profiles that is the problem - not the profiles themselves. Why is it always the standard that faces the attack and not the company eh?
Sad thing is - I think you've long since convinced yourself that Bluetooth is a failure and so you interpret everything you read in such a way as to support this highly short-sighted belief (flying in the face of masses of actual evidence to the contrary...). This includes a distinct lack of response on your part to any of the many Bluetooth success stories.
Y'know - there are many examples of good things that have suffered in places due to poor implementation - but which we still recognise as largely successful and a good thing - democracy anyone? Or should we expect a 'Democracy is dead' post sometime soon...!
I have to say Ed - I regularly recommend BT products to friends - both technicaly minded and not (and have still kept on excellent terms with all!). If you feel unable to do so for yours then I can only think you underestimate them (and the simplicity of the standard) and do them something of a disservice!
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