10-10-2003, 12:30 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Bubble Bursts for eBooks
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&e=1&u=/nm/20031010/tc_nm/arts_frankfurt_electronic_dc
Here is another article on the struggle ebooks have been having to gain acceptance. The paragraph that wraps it up though is "In the technological battle to find the perfect way to read electronic books on your palm-top or personal computer, competing formats have put the consumer off. David Steinberg, president of corporate strategy and international in New York with HarperCollins, said: "There was a format war. They compete and are not compatible. That creates resistance."
Much of what else is said was discussed in this article on the future of ebooks last month.
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10-10-2003, 01:23 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 47
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Multiple formats not as much as problem in ebooks...
I haven't read the whole article yet, but to just respond to the last paragraph there... Different formats for ebooks aren't as much a hinderence as they are in other media.
Let me explain... for DVD, more specifically DVD Re-writables, format isa very big concern. You want to make sure your DVD player and writer is compatible with as much as possible. If it turns out the new standard isn't supported by your device, well, you out a couple of hundred bucks with a hunk of 'useless' hardware.
However, with ebooks... if I want a book and the only format it's available in is .lit, I just download the free MSReader software and I'm good to go. If it's only available as a Palm ebook, I just download any number of free palm reader programs and I'm good to go.
There is no extra cost associated in swapping formats as the reader programs are usually free... and I can have multiple reader programs installed at the same time making it easy to swap programs at the drop of a hat. There are even programs, like microBook (aka, uBook) which can read a great many formats by itself.
Sure, I'd love a standard format. But certainly isn't that big of a hurdle and isn't going to stand in my way of enjoying a good ebook.
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10-10-2003, 01:44 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Re: Multiple formats not as much as problem in ebooks...
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Originally Posted by RedRamage
Sure, I'd love a standard format. But certainly isn't that big of a hurdle and isn't going to stand in my way of enjoying a good ebook.
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Sure it can. Palm users are limited to Palm Reader, Mobipocket and a few others. Pocket PCs can do everything a Palm can, plus MS Reader. Neither can use the Adobe ebook reader format that I'm aware of.
Finally, no normal person is going ot install 3-4 readers on their device. Reading an ebook should be effortless. Having to contend with 3-4 apps is a pain only a geek will put up with. Even I only get books in Palm's PalmReader format. I don't bother with MSReader books.
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10-10-2003, 02:18 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 25
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Formats weren't the issue
I think the whole format thing is a red herring. You could get stuff in all the formats. To me, I fe;t completely ripped off when they wanted the same for an ebook as a paperbook. I should have been able to save using the electronic format, since the printing, storage and distribution costs are so significantly reduced.
When you know you are being ripped off, you don't buy.
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10-10-2003, 02:34 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 169
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Re: Formats weren't the issue
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Originally Posted by pcause
I think the whole format thing is a red herring. You could get stuff in all the formats. To me, I fe;t completely ripped off when they wanted the same for an ebook as a paperbook. I should have been able to save using the electronic format, since the printing, storage and distribution costs are so significantly reduced.
When you know you are being ripped off, you don't buy.
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I used to feel this way until I started to think about it a bit more. Yes printing, physical storage, and phyiscal distribution are lower. With the electronic version someone still has to format the e-book. They still have to proof the e-book, make sure that the layout it proper. If you are going to spend any kind of money on an e-book you want the experience to be enjoyable, not page breaks where they shouldn't be, words missing or misspelled words. Yes, I understand that much of that is already done before a book goes to print, but it still needs to be done again in the e-book format. In addition to all that, there still is the bandwidth that needs to be paid for and the web hosting that needs to be paid for. I don't have an issue paying paperback prices for e-books, because for me it is convience, and I expect to pay a bit more for my convience. I do take issue with paying Hardcover prices for e-books. So as a general rule, I just wait until the book is out in paperback before I buy the e-book.
Once e-books finally get accepted in the general public and the publishing industry, you still will not see e-book prices at a going rate of $1 or $2 per book, and I don't think we should expect to see this.
-Eric
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10-10-2003, 03:06 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 25
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Re: Multiple formats not as much as problem in ebooks...
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Neither can use the Adobe ebook reader format that I'm aware of.
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My understanding is that while the Adobe ebook reader is not currently available for Palm or PPC, ebooks can be read with Adobe Acrobat Reader, which is available in both formats.
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Finally, no normal person is going ot install 3-4 readers on their device.
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I have MS, Palm, and Adobe Readers on my PPC, and I consider myself fairly normal!
If we want various functions, we have various versions of things to accomplish them. Many of us have a conventional oven in our kitchens as well as a microwave oven. Many people have a car for work or everyday use and one for pleasure driving. We have PCs on our desks to accomplish some tasks and our PPCs for others. Is it that different to have multiple reader softwares on those PPCs?
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10-10-2003, 03:07 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 221
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Re: Formats weren't the issue
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Originally Posted by VanHlebar
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Originally Posted by pcause
I think the whole format thing is a red herring. You could get stuff in all the formats. To me, I fe;t completely ripped off when they wanted the same for an ebook as a paperbook. I should have been able to save using the electronic format, since the printing, storage and distribution costs are so significantly reduced.
When you know you are being ripped off, you don't buy.
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I used to feel this way until I started to think about it a bit more. Yes printing, physical storage, and phyiscal distribution are lower. With the electronic version someone still has to format the e-book. They still have to proof the e-book, make sure that the layout it proper. If you are going to spend any kind of money on an e-book you want the experience to be enjoyable, not page breaks where they shouldn't be, words missing or misspelled words. Yes, I understand that much of that is already done before a book goes to print, but it still needs to be done again in the e-book format. In addition to all that, there still is the bandwidth that needs to be paid for and the web hosting that needs to be paid for. I don't have an issue paying paperback prices for e-books, because for me it is convience, and I expect to pay a bit more for my convience. I do take issue with paying Hardcover prices for e-books. So as a general rule, I just wait until the book is out in paperback before I buy the e-book.
Once e-books finally get accepted in the general public and the publishing industry, you still will not see e-book prices at a going rate of $1 or $2 per book, and I don't think we should expect to see this.
-Eric |
Actually, I disagree with most of that.
Traditional book distribution now:
Author -> Publisher -> Printer -> Distributor -> Shop
There are a few other smaller steps along the way but that's the gist of it. Everyone along the road gets their cut of it, too. The most costly ones are towards the customer end, too.
Paper only costs:
- The printer supplies raw materials (paper, bindings, etc.), transports cross country to the distributor. Then they obviously put a little markup on that.
- The distributor stores the books, often repackages, pays people for moving the books throughout the business, packages the books for distribution to the shops, etc. They take a cut of the profit for storage, distribution, billing, other costs.
- Larger store chains often then use their own distribution centres. The books then gets to the store where you haev all your normal retail costs, and a healthy price markup again.
- If you happen to be Amazon or some other non-local retailer, the poor customer pays another delivery fee (directly or indirectly).
I work in the industry myself, and it's not hard to see just how much moolah can be saved for the customer by ebooks. And just think of how much paper could be saved from waste. Billions of tons of wood.
OK, extra expenses incurred by ebooks not there for paper books. Well, you've got the cost of supporting up to 5 or 6 formats. Pretty insignificant since this will be handled en masse.
Bandwidth charges? For novel with perhaps a "cover" image you're looking at less than 1MB for 99% of them. Songs even at today's inflated prices download for $0.70 - $0.99, and they're in the 3-6MB+ range.
IMO there is no excuse for ebooks being more than 75% of paper book prices, and 50% is certainly very profitable for all concerned. It's just a matter if they'll have the guts to do it - they need to learn from the terrible lesson taught to everyone by the RIAA. I hope they will.
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10-10-2003, 03:30 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 252
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Re: Formats weren't the issue
In repsonse to Erics points:
- The cost of reformatting an ebook is going to be minimal. I would argue that you don't have to go for misplled words. If I transfer a document to A5 from A4 I would check page breaks & widows and orphans etc. but I wouldn't look for misspellings. Do the right thing and stick the original file in a self describing format and bobs you uncle you write a script to deliver a file for each format in turn.
Anyway the publishers are already used to at least three formats. Hardback, paperback and trade paperback.
Yes bandwidth must be paid for and storage but the costs involved are certainly far less and more elastic than a traditional bricks and mortar store. Amazon makes savings compared to Borders as it has a cheap central location. Now take away the costs of the warehouse, the control system, the pickers, the packers, deliveries in, etc. and we don't think that just being able to get the buyer to download the book isn't going to be cheaper?
Yes publishers have to make a profit and yes authors are going to have to make a profit - no we are not going to see books for $1 but they not passing on the savings to either the retailer or the buyers as yet.
I think that this has more to do with the oligopoly operating in the book market. If I'm selling a book which is $15 and I can sell it to Borders at $10 and Palmpress at $5 I am not going to do it as I don't want to upset Borders. The publishers don't control the book market the retailer do. Here in the UK we have recommended books from all the large chains. The recommendation is actually causes not be some girl working through college being captivated by a new book in the stock room but whether the publisher is willing to pay for the privilege. Don't give the retailer the desired discount and you find the book you want to push doesn't appear on the tables at the front of the store but buried on the shelves.
Of course this does mean that the publisher gets to pocket an extra $5 so he isn't going to be complaining and although as price goes down consumption goes up books are only ever going to take up a certain percentage of the average persons leisure time and therefore halving the price isn't going to double the consumption.
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10-10-2003, 04:10 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Re: Multiple formats not as much as problem in ebooks...
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Originally Posted by sebringal
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Neither can use the Adobe ebook reader format that I'm aware of.
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My understanding is that while the Adobe ebook reader is not currently available for Palm or PPC, ebooks can be read with Adobe Acrobat Reader, which is available in both formats. |
No, the Adobe Glassbook Reader is needed for DRM protected ebooks.
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Finally, no normal person is going ot install 3-4 readers on their device.
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I have MS, Palm, and Adobe Readers on my PPC, and I consider myself fairly normal!
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Well, I have some shocking news for you.... :wink:
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10-10-2003, 04:11 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 140
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Well, I am a big fan of e-books, Mobipocket to be precise and the true :scatter: cross-platform compatibility (which always seems to be growing) provided by it means that the gazillions of annotations I put into the books are viewable over a number of devices.
I kind of liked Microsoft Reader, but once I upgraded from my PocketPC, I was lost. I only miss a desktop reader for Mobipocket, but that's Ok because I don't want my eyes burned out of their sockets anyway.
E-Books rule!
:clap:
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