09-03-2003, 05:00 AM
|
|
Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,171
|
|
Evaluating Fuel Cell Safety
We've discussed fuel cells here before, and a consistent concern has been raised in the forums about how flammable fuel cells would be, and whether they could ever be adopted in environments like airplanes. Fuel cell manufacturers are actively working on these problems.
"Methanol, a type of alcohol, is flammable, but fuel cells typically use less than 24 percent methanol in water, said John Goodman, president of the fuel cell division at Entegris, which makes fuel cell components. 'The issue isn't 'Are flammable liquids safe on an aircraft?' They already are allowed with liquor and perfume,' said Goodman."
They also envision fuel cells being as small as cigarette lighters, trivially replaceable, yet lasting 10 hours. If they can guarantee the safety of these solutions, it could be the final step needed for mass adoption.
|
| |
|
|
|
09-03-2003, 08:03 AM
|
|
2000 Posts And This is All I Get?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,017
|
|
A good article. But it did not mention anything about the estimate price of 'recharging' the fuel cell. That will be the big decision point if it goes mass-market.
Lets take a sensible number ... say $3 to recharge the fuel cell, which means $3 for 10 hours of usage. Will you switch to fuel cell ?
|
| |
|
|
|
09-03-2003, 09:38 AM
|
|
Ponderer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 68
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Maximus
A good article. But it did not mention anything about the estimate price of 'recharging' the fuel cell. That will be the big decision point if it goes mass-market.
Lets take a sensible number ... say $3 to recharge the fuel cell, which means $3 for 10 hours of usage. Will you switch to fuel cell ?
|
I would... sometimes.
Now, if I could charge it up with a home unit normally, at no cost other than house power and low cost consumables, it would be wonderful. But, away from home, I'd be more than willing to pay even 5 bucks for a charge, if it lasted 10 hours or more. Note that the 10 hours is for a full laptop, not a handheld.
Also, for normal units, picture a unit that could recharge your current PDA 2 or three times with one charge.
Now, I would NOT be happy if that were the only option. I want a fairly non-upfront cost thing to more recharges.
|
| |
|
|
|
09-03-2003, 10:24 AM
|
|
2000 Posts And This is All I Get?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,017
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by malcolmsharp
Now, if I could charge it up with a home unit normally, at no cost other than house power and low cost consumables, it would be wonderful.
|
The main problem with fuel cell is that it uses irreversible chemical conversion. If I remembered correctly from my chemical class, basically it works by splitting hydrogen atoms into one proton (+) and one electron (-), while the proton goes into an electrolyte, the electron goes into the cathodes and the difference in voltage potentials created electric current. At the end of the cycle, the proton and electron is combined with oxygen to make a harmless waste in form of water.
So basically, you will not be able to 'charge' them at home, unless you have somekind of portable hidrogen producer at home.
|
| |
|
|
|
09-03-2003, 01:03 PM
|
|
Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,264
|
|
I think a battery/fuel cell combo would be the solution that you are looking for. I think we will first see an external fuel cell power supply that could be used for multiple devices, basically giving you a portable outlet.
|
| |
|
|
|
09-03-2003, 02:43 PM
|
|
Ponderer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 68
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Maximus
So basically, you will not be able to 'charge' them at home, unless you have somekind of portable hidrogen producer at home.
|
Why couldn't you have? Or buy it in a compressed holder?
|
| |
|
|
|
09-03-2003, 03:56 PM
|
|
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 545
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Maximus
So basically, you will not be able to 'charge' them at home, unless you have somekind of portable hidrogen producer at home.
|
These fuel cells are being fueled by methanol. I am not sure of the basic waste components (water is only the waste of NASA's fuel cells.....these may be different as the main fuel is different). If the waste is water, the charger could discharge the water into a container (dunno if I would drink it.....but you probably could) for disposal. If it's something else, depending on what it was, it could be also dispelled into a container. Then a bigger tank full of methanol could refill it. One device could hold the container of methanol and the waste container. Only cost would be pennies for the electricity and the cost of the methanol. I don't see why a home charger could not be made for these.
It would also be nice if all of these fuel containers were standard, but my guess is it will probably not be!  If they were standard, the same fuel container could be used by say your PDA, your laptop, your digicam, your mp3 player, your portable DVD player.....etc etc.
What I would love to see at first would be drop in replacements for the existing batterypacks on laptops. PDA's could not do this without a redesign (mabe thicker....). Once you had that, the fuel cannisters could be standard between them, and you'd also be able to use batteries for a backup.
|
| |
|
|
|
09-03-2003, 08:20 PM
|
|
Neophyte
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4
|
|
Not a so technical view!!!
Sorry but my knowledge in chemical are pretty bad (someone could say also my English :cry: :cry: :cry: )
Anyway!!! what I definitely are is a sci-fiction lover, specially Isaav Asimov, so this discussion about fuel power put me out of future context.
Why keep going with power that is spending earth resources? :evil:
I'm no saying that Asimov's view are correct, but we should (humanity) look up for thing that are far less earth destructive 0X
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Linear Mode
